best fps in your opinion without taking nostalgia into consideration?

without taking nostalgia into consideration (or how great the game was back when it was released), what's the best fps today? and what games have they supplanted?

for me, my first best fps was doom, which was surpassed by doom 2 (thank you, double-barrelled shotgun!), which was then surpassed by quake (thank you, true 3d!), which was then surpassed by quake 2 (thank you, improved a.i.), which was then surpassed by half-life (thank you, scripted sequences and best a.i. in a really long time), which was then surpassed by...nolf 2 (thank you, funny ****), which was then surpassed by hl2 (thank you, physics+gravity gun), which has yet to be surpassed, imo (except by its son, episode 2).

so, how about you guys?

Goldeneye- Halo1- Half Life 2- COD4

About 60 FPS is the best imo.

My best FPS right now is with F.E.A.R., HL2, bioshock

Half-Life 2 + Episodes 1&2: (I don't know whether its worth looking at them separately).

Thief 1-3 is close behind though!!

Deus Ex is still a classic hybrid!!

Crysis, followed by Half-Life 2, followed by No One Lives Forever, followed by Jedi Knight 2, followed by Jedi Academy, followed by FEAR, etc., etc.

Nostalgia really doesn't affect my rating of a game, by the way. I don't let it happen. But just because a game is old, doesn't mean its old elements should affect how good it is. Old, flawed elements, yes, but not just old ones.

EDIT - Oh, forgot the supplanted part. Well, NOLF was my favorite once I played it. Don't really remember what my favorite shooter was before that as I was rather young. Then, HL2 beat it, and became my favorite game of all. Oblivion then beat that for my number one game of all (though not shooter, of course). Some time after that, I played Riven, a game I'd played when I was pretty young but wasn't able to sink my teeth into at such a young maturity, and was utterly blown away this time around. Remains my number one game and the only game I've ever given a 10. Then, I played Crysis. Beat HL2 for my favorite shooter, knocked Oblivion off its #2 of all throne.

(thank you, for not typing anymore)darkSIDEechoes

Is CS:S your favourite?

Crysis, followed by Half-Life 2, followed by No One Lives Forever, followed by Jedi Knight 2, followed by Jedi Academy, followed by FEAR, etc., etc.

Nostalgia really doesn't affect my rating of a game, by the way. I don't let it happen. But just because a game is old, doesn't mean its old elements should affect how good it is. Old, flawed elements, yes, but not just old ones.

EDIT - Oh, forgot the supplanted part. Well, NOLF was my favorite once I played it. Don't really remember what my favorite shooter was before that as I was rather young. Then, HL2 beat it, and became my favorite game of all. Oblivion then beat that for my number one game of all (though not shooter, of course). Some time after that, I played Riven, a game I'd played when I was pretty young but wasn't able to sink my teeth into at such a young maturity, and was utterly blown away this time around. Remains my number one game and the only game I've ever given a 10. Then, I played Crysis. Beat HL2 for my favorite shooter, knocked Oblivion off its #2 of all throne.

JP_Russell

i've gotta try the myst games one of these days. i remember back in the days not wanting to play the myst games, because...well, they seemed popular among casual pc gamers (and i considered myself better than them), but i might shell out a few bucks to get the series, just to see what got you all excited.

is myst 10th anniversary edition (has the first 3 myst games) the version i should get? are myst 4 and 5 any good?

i've gotta try the myst games one of these days. i remember back in the days not wanting to play the myst games, because...well, they seemed popular among casual pc gamers (and i considered myself better than them), but i might shell out a few bucks to get the series, just to see what got you all excited.

fireandcloud

You mean me and Shodan. He's really liked Myst and Riven so far.

is myst 10th anniversary edition (has the first 3 myst games) the version i should get? are myst 4 and 5 any good?

fireandcloud

That's the one I got, but you'll have to buy the original Myst, too. Myst Masterpiece (the Myst remake with supposedly slightly improved visuals and sound), for almost everyone, doesn't work anymore. It was originally designed to be extra compatible with XP, but as XP has updated, it no longer works with it and has taken on a strange bug where you can't see anything. The game plays, but the screen remains black (though you can still see the taskbar at the top and quit). The original Myst, oddly enough, works fine so long as you use the the really old version of Quicktime on the disc (2.1 or something). In any case, Myst is extremely cheap on Amazon, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Or, if you don't want to get the original, you can download the second remake, realMyst, off of Gametap for free. It allows free movement as opposed to the screen-by-screen of Myst, and lets you get a better view of your surroundings and such.

Myst IV is a wonderful, wonderful game, one of my most favorite. Easy 9.5. I don't agree with Artur for the most part. Some puzzles aren't as good as they could be. There's some trial and error needed for a couple (that's a no-no), and a few others that require a stretch of logic (another no-no), and some just aren't all that fun to solve (big no-no), but like 98% of them are just fine - wonderful brain smashers that make you realize you're a retarded dumbass who doesn't know how to think on a higher level and must bring himself to in order to advance. They're as a whole not as good as the puzzles of Riven, but then, how can you expect to match such a perfect example of perfectly perfect perfection?

It's been a while since I played Myst V, but it was also very good. Rather unique, too. Anyway, if you end up liking the core Myst games, I also recommend Uru: Ages Beyond Myst and its expansions. Not a fantastic game, but still great, with more mystical, enthralling ages (worlds) of the Myst universe to visit and see, and lots of backstory and information on it.

Finally, I post this to everyone I'm recommending Riven specifically to, but should you ever get stuck, use this walkthrough.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/36592/36207

Also, read the "general strategies" part before you play Riven, or any of the Myst games for that matter. It's got a lot of useful tips that are key to doing well (and having more fun).

[QUOTE="fireandcloud"]

i've gotta try the myst games one of these days. i remember back in the days not wanting to play the myst games, because...well, they seemed popular among casual pc gamers (and i considered myself better than them), but i might shell out a few bucks to get the series, just to see what got you all excited.

JP_Russell

You mean me and Shodan. He's really liked Myst and Riven so far.

is myst 10th anniversary edition (has the first 3 myst games) the version i should get? are myst 4 and 5 any good?

fireandcloud

That's the one I got, but you'll have to buy the original Myst, too. Myst Masterpiece (the Myst remake with supposedly slightly improved visuals and sound), for almost everyone, doesn't work anymore. It was originally designed to be extra compatible with XP, but as XP has updated, it no longer works with it and has taken on a strange bug where you can't see anything. The game plays, but the screen remains black (though you can still see the taskbar at the top and quit). The original Myst, oddly enough, works fine so long as you use the the really old version of Quicktime on the disc (2.1 or something). In any case, Myst is extremely cheap on Amazon, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Or, if you don't want to get the original, you can download the second remake, realMyst, off of Gametap for free. It allows free movement as opposed to the screen-by-screen of Myst, and lets you get a better view of your surroundings and such.

Myst IV is a wonderful, wonderful game, one of my most favorite. Easy 9.5. I don't agree with Artur for the most part. Some puzzles aren't as good as they could be. There's some trial and error needed for a couple (that's a no-no), and a few others that require a stretch of logic (another no-no), and some just aren't all that fun to solve (big no-no), but like 98% of them are just fine - wonderful brain smashers that make you realize you're a retarded dumbass who doesn't know how to think on a higher level and must bring himself to in order to advance. They're as a whole not as good as the puzzles of Riven, but then, how can you expect to match such a perfect example of perfectly perfect perfection?

It's been a while since I played Myst V, but it was also very good. Rather unique, too. Anyway, if you end up liking the core Myst games, I also recommend Uru: Ages Beyond Myst and its expansions. Not a fantastic game, but still great, with more mystical, enthralling ages (worlds) of the Myst universe to visit and see, and lots of backstory and information on it.

Finally, I post this to everyone I'm recommending Riven specifically to, but should you ever get stuck, use this walkthrough.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/36592/36207

Also, read the "general strategies" part before you play Riven, or any of the Myst games for that matter. It's got a lot of useful tips that are key to doing well (and having more fun).

oh, wow, thanks for the detailed response. i actually didn't know that fatshodan liked (or even played) the myst games, but since he has pretty good taste (for the most part) in games, i guess that's a good thing; but i've always known you loved the series, so that's what got me even mildly interested in giving it a try and the reason i'm now considering making it my next purchase. i guess i'll get the 10th anniversary one, and myst 4 and 5 (and try the gametap version of the original, if i can't get myst to work either on my xp desktop or vista laptop). that should be pretty cheap, all things considered. again, thanks for the detailed response; i appreciated it.

As far the best experience playing it, halflife.

Currently, halflife 2: Episode 2.

A vast improvement over the other halflife 2 games.

Duke Nukem 3D

Amazing single player with awesome graphics at the time, long, funny moments, best game charecter, good level design, great weapons etc. The games multiplayer was also a blast and it had co-op.

The first FPS i really loved was Unreal - i'd have to admit it's getting on a bit now but people should still play it if they haven't - Far Cry and RTCW remain right up there for me - more recently Stalker, and also i recently played Deus Ex which is old but still an oustanding game - now having nearly finished System Shock 2 i'd say it's very good but had i played it when it was contemporry i'm sure i'd have been raving about it

sorry, not a very concise or even coherent reply!

PS - and i forgot Painkiller

1. System Shock 2

2. Ultimate Doom

They are both amazing games, and they are both without equal in their respective FPS subgenre. They have never been supplanted and, the way things are going, I doubt they ever will. I play both frequently and have for as long as I can remember, so there's no room for nostalgia. They are simply the best.

oh, wow, thanks for the detailed response. i actually didn't know that fatshodan liked (or even played) the myst games, but since he has pretty good taste (for the most part) in games, i guess that's a good thing

fireandcloud

Yeah, Myst is an awesome game. I first played it (on the Saturn) when I was a little kid and I had no ****ing idea what was happening. JP_Russell got me back into Myst earlier this year, and I played it and loved it.

Riven is more of the same, only bigger, more beautiful and more refined. And a lot ****ing harder! I haven't played the other Myst games yet, but if they're of similar quality, they are certainly worth playing.

Out of interest - for the most part? - what games are there I like that you dislike?

Best MP game FPS COD4. Nothing comes even close.( maybe doom 3)

Worst MP FPS Frontlines. It sux big time.

Best SP FPS Doom3 soon to be Doom 4.

Worst FPS SP Liquadator. (The developers should have been shot)

Multiplayer wise, quake III.

Out of interest - for the most part? - what games are there I like that you dislike?

fatshodan

your failure to recognize hl2: episode 2 as a great, great, great game (along with nolf and bg series and bioware games in general). :P but there isn't a game in your top 20 that i dislike or anything. obviously, i respect your opinions regarding games, as i've bought numerous games based on your recommendation alone.

oh, and your wii and ds obsession, of course, is something that i can't respect as a serious gamer. and the two max paynes are way too high on your list. and your inability to get into fallout 2. man, there's quite a bit that i've listed here; i might have to reconsider my impression that you have good taste for the most part. :P

Best MP game FPS COD4. Nothing comes even close.( maybe doom 3)

Roguetrp

You thought Doom3 had good multiplayer?

[QUOTE="Roguetrp"]

Best MP game FPS COD4. Nothing comes even close.( maybe doom 3)

biggest_loser

You thought Doom3 had good multiplayer?

i think for pure fragging, id software does it best. i can tell cuz i stink something awful at those games.

1. System Shock 2

2. Ultimate Doom

They are both amazing games, and they are both without equal in their respective FPS subgenre. They have never been supplanted and, the way things are going, I doubt they ever will. I play both frequently and have for as long as I can remember, so there's no room for nostalgia. They are simply the best.

fatshodan

I can't speak for System Shock 2 but Ultimate Doom? Never been supplanted?

Beyond the fact that the game was nothing but a mindless run and gun romp, the game had no story to speak of, had only four directions of movement, tactics were non-existant, and the weapon choices were embarrasingly weak.

I'm sorry to be so crude but when you or someone says that no FPS has ever usurped Doom's throne it makes me chuckle a bit inside. Indeed, it was innovative for the time (however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre), but to say that the likes of Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, or even Halo have yet to supplant it is beyond comprehension.

All of those games offer expansive storylines, more than four directions of movement, multiple-ways to take out groups of enemies, and altogether more of everything that makes killing rewarding.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"]

1. System Shock 2

2. Ultimate Doom

They are both amazing games, and they are both without equal in their respective FPS subgenre. They have never been supplanted and, the way things are going, I doubt they ever will. I play both frequently and have for as long as I can remember, so there's no room for nostalgia. They are simply the best.

VoodooGamer

I can't speak for System Shock 2 but Ultimate Doom? Never been supplanted?

Beyond the fact that the game was nothing but a mindless run and gun romp, the game had no story to speak of, had only four directions of movement, tactics were non-existant, and the weapon choices were embarrasingly weak.

I'm sorry to be so crude but when you or someone says that no FPS has ever usurped Doom's throne it makes me chuckle a bit inside. Indeed, it was innovative for the time (however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre), but to say that the likes of Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, or even Halo have yet to supplant it is beyond comprehension.

All of those games offer expansive storylines, more than four directions of movement, multiple-ways to take out groups of enemies, and altogether more of everything that makes killing rewarding.

i can understand why he feels that way. there's nothing quite like playing doom. doom is like street fighter 2 or 1942 - they have simple gameplay mechanics that have been improved upon and surpassed, but they have few equals in terms of sheer fun. i can't think of any arcade fighting game that's more fun to play than sf2 (though i suck at it); and same for 1942 in its respective genre. and i think that can be said of doom as well (though doom 2 is better than doom, imo). in that sense, i can respect and understand anyone who says that doom has yet to be supplanted, though i personally wouldn't say that.

My favorites are

Brothers in Arms RtH30

Far Cry

Crysis

Call of Duty

Half Life 2 can be enjoyed anytime, it still looks amazing.

Mindless online your best bet is Rainobw Six Vegas, Cod4 or Battlefield series.

You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.

Beyond the fact that the game was nothing but a mindless run and gun romp, the game had no story to speak of, had only four directions of movement, tactics were non-existant, and the weapon choices were embarrasingly weak.VoodooGamer

The vast majority of FPS games are mindless run and gun romps. Even FPS games with depth are still all about the gunplay, and gunplay is instinctive and reflex. There's no real thought involved - at least, not for me. Whether I'm circle strafing Cacodemons in Doom or stealthing through a camp in Crysis, I act and react, and it's all relfex and instinct. No thought involved.

Besides FPSRPGs and a some tactical shooters, I don't think there's such a thing as a FPS which isn't mindless.

The vast majority of FPS games have awful stories and just as bad storytelling - indeed, stories in FPS games exist only to give context to the gunplay. With the exception of a few truly exceptional games, stories in FPS games are pretty much pointless, and entirely interchangable. Anyone who plays FPS games for their stories is misguided. Besides, the Half Life storyline is pretty much the doom storyline with a little extra fluff. It just has better storytelling.

As for directions of movement, well, what? Most FPS games take place on flat levels with only a few directions of movement, and level design is so often so linear, and so straight-and-narrow that it doesn't make a difference anyway.

As for weapon choices, well, there are two weapons in Doom I use - the (single barrel) shotgun and the chainsaw. I'd say they're two of the most wonderful, most iconic weapons ever seen in a FPS game.

Indeed, it was innovative for the time (however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre), but to say that the likes of Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, or even Halo have yet to supplant it is beyond comprehension.VoodooGamer

Those games have completely different core mechanics and styIes. I wouldn't compare any of them directly with Doom. That would be like comparing a football sim with a golf sim - they're both sports simulations, but they're very, very different sports.

All of those games offer expansive storylines, more than four directions of movement, multiple-ways to take out groups of enemies, and altogether more of everything that makes killing rewarding.VoodooGamer

But none of them have vast, screen-filling swarms of awesome-looking, iconic enemies that give for utterly insane high-action firefights. Doom is in a completely separate subgenre to the above - Doom's real rivals are games like Serious Sam, Starship Troopers and Painkiller. These games don't have stories (or storytelling) - that's not what they're about. You grab your shotgun, and you rock - that's what the games are about, and Doom does it best of all of them.

To acknowledge games like Half Life and Deux Ex as being somehow inherently better than games like Doom and Painkiller would be like saying third person shooters are better than God games. It's absurd to make the comparison.

Doom - which you haven't played at all until you've played it on Ultraviolence or Nightmare - offers the kind of insane killfest action that is without equal. Even its real rivals have nothing on Doom. Now, don't get me wrong, I love great storytelling and great stories (you really should check out System Shock 2), and a good story can make a good game into an even better game, but FPS stories are so consistently so bad, and so disposable, that I can't help but grimace with confusion when people talk about bad stories in FPS games.

Doom has awesome, iconic enemies, it has some awesome and very satisfying to use weaponry and the kind of intensity that just cannot be found in modern FPS games. How can games like Half Life or even Quake replace a game when they cannot reproduce its core mechanics - that being huge swarms of enemies to gun down?

You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.fatshodan

Doom 3.The best.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"]You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.foxhound_fox

so you guys play it with the keyboard and mouse or just keyboard? i'll have to try this ultraviolence/nightmare thing. i don't really like the games i play to be too hard, but if that's how you're supposed to experience the game (according to you guys), i'll have to at least try it out and see for myself.

so you guys play it with the keyboard and mouse or just keyboard? i'll have to try this ultraviolence/nightmare thing. i don't really like the games i play to be too hard, but if that's how you're supposed to experience the game (according to you guys), i'll have to at least try it out and see for myself.fireandcloud

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.fireandcloud

so you guys play it with the keyboard and mouse or just keyboard? i'll have to try this ultraviolence/nightmare thing. i don't really like the games i play to be too hard, but if that's how you're supposed to experience the game (according to you guys), i'll have to at least try it out and see for myself.

I play the Doom games through Doom Legacy, which features a mouselook mod - so I use the keyboard and mouse. Ultraviolence is challenging, but it isn't super difficult for an experienced gamer. You'll probably be able to have a lot of fun with it. Nightmare on the other hand is, as forhound_fox says, masochistic. I only make mention of it because it's there.

You can check out YouTube videos if you don't actually want to play the game, but I really do think you're missing out on something very special. I don't casually call it the second best FPS of all time.

(however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre)

VoodooGamer

What? Ultima Underworld was an old first-person RPG, and it wasn't the first. If you're referring to the fact that it had free movement instead of the click-a-directional-button-to-move-one-space mechanic of most other RPG's then, UU might have been the first RPG to do so, but it wasn't the first game to do so. The FPS to spawn the genre (though not technically the very first FPS) would probably be id's own Hovertank 3D (which is older than UU and had free movement), which spawned id's own Catacombs 3D, which spawned the game that brought FPS into the public eye, id's own Wolfenstein 3D. That, in turn, spawned Doom, which brought full attention to the genre and created motivation for many other devs to start making FPS games (Wolfenstein did to an extent with Ken's Labyrinth and Blake Stone and a few others, but not much else).

About 60 FPS is the best imo.

My best FPS right now is with F.E.A.R., HL2, bioshock

rohver

:lol: I'm sorry, I couldn't help but laugh.

I don't necessarily have a list of "best" FPSs, simply the ones I've personally enjoyed most.

Half-Life 2, particularly Episode 2 (I'm replaying it now) and TF2 are my two favorites, but I adore just about any Valve games so my opinion doesn't count for much. I thought Crysis was okay, but nothing stellar. I actually really enjoyed playing Bioshock (I realize I'm a minority), but the gunplay was pretty mediocre. Who plays Bioshock for the gameplay, though?

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

(however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre)

JP_Russell

What? Ultima Underworld was an old first-person RPG, and it wasn't the first. If you're referring to the fact that it had free movement instead of the click-a-directional-button-to-move-one-space mechanic of most other RPG's then, UU might have been the first RPG to do so, but it wasn't the first game to do so. The FPS to spawn the genre (though not technically the very first FPS) would probably be id's own Hovertank 3D (which is older than UU and had free movement), which spawned id's own Catacombs 3D, which spawned the game that brought FPS into the public eye, id's own Wolfenstein 3D. That, in turn, spawned Doom, which brought full attention to the genre and created motivation for many other devs to start making FPS games (Wolfenstein did to an extent with Ken's Labyrinth and Blake Stone and a few others, but not much else).

I think you might be correct. For some reason, I was under the impression that Ultima Underworld inspired ID to create Doom, but after checking my sources that isn't so.

To be able to play the first game with a mouse (AFAIK) you will need a open-source launcher like Skulltag to give you the ability. I like using Skulltag because you can change so many variables in the game and you can play it like the original was intended or you can pump it full of new-age FPS elements like free-aim, jumping, bots, crouching and tons of other stuff.

What I like about Skulltag also is that with free-aim on you can turn auto-aim off completely and get an even faster-paced experience. Plus it comes with some extra maps that take swarming demons to epic proportions in the "survival" levels. On level 2 (I haven't passed level 3) you have to get through around 550 enemies to beat the level and there are, at one point, at least 150 on screen at one time.

I don't know what fatshodan will have to say about changing the game from it's original form but at least I find it to be a lot more enjoyable with free-aim.foxhound_fox

thanks for the info. i'll have to see what my version has (i have the steam version), but i think i remember there being mouse option, though i haven't really played it to know for sure. if not, i'll definitely look into skulltag. 150 at one time sounds like 130 too many to me. :D

I play the Doom games through Doom Legacy, which features a mouselook mod - so I use the keyboard and mouse. Ultraviolence is challenging, but it isn't super difficult for an experienced gamer. You'll probably be able to have a lot of fun with it. Nightmare on the other hand is, as forhound_fox says, masochistic. I only make mention of it because it's there.

You can check out YouTube videos if you don't actually want to play the game, but I really do think you're missing out on something very special. I don't casually call it the second best FPS of all time.

fatshodan

yeah, i mostly consider doom 2 to be my 2nd favorite fps of all time because i remember loving it back then, so i take that into consideration when ranking or rating games, but i remember enjoying both the original and the sequel well into the late 90s and early 00s, so i'm sure i'll enjoy them even now, though it's been almost 5 years since i've played either of them.

anyway, i'll definitely have to give it a go today and see what all the fuss is about. thank you both for your informative responses. appreciate it.

[QUOTE="darkSIDEechoes"](thank you, for not typing anymore)biggest_loser

Is CS:S your favourite?

I LOL'd! :lol:

Anyway, I'd say the best FPS in my book so far is HL2.

You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

Beyond the fact that the game was nothing but a mindless run and gun romp, the game had no story to speak of, had only four directions of movement, tactics were non-existant, and the weapon choices were embarrasingly weak.fatshodan

The vast majority of FPS games are mindless run and gun romps. Even FPS games with depth are still all about the gunplay, and gunplay is instinctive and reflex. There's no real thought involved - at least, not for me. Whether I'm circle strafing Cacodemons in Doom or stealthing through a camp in Crysis, I act and react, and it's all relfex and instinct. No thought involved.

Besides FPSRPGs and a some tactical shooters, I don't think there's such a thing as a FPS which isn't mindless.

The vast majority of FPS games have awful stories and just as bad storytelling - indeed, stories in FPS games exist only to give context to the gunplay. With the exception of a few truly exceptional games, stories in FPS games are pretty much pointless, and entirely interchangable. Anyone who plays FPS games for their stories is misguided. Besides, the Half Life storyline is pretty much the doom storyline with a little extra fluff. It just has better storytelling.

As for directions of movement, well, what? Most FPS games take place on flat levels with only a few directions of movement, and level design is so often so linear, and so straight-and-narrow that it doesn't make a difference anyway.

As for weapon choices, well, there are two weapons in Doom I use - the (single barrel) shotgun and the chainsaw. I'd say they're two of the most wonderful, most iconic weapons ever seen in a FPS game.

Indeed, it was innovative for the time (however, Ultima Underworld pretty much spawned the genre), but to say that the likes of Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, or even Halo have yet to supplant it is beyond comprehension.VoodooGamer

Those games have completely different core mechanics and styIes. I wouldn't compare any of them directly with Doom. That would be like comparing a football sim with a golf sim - they're both sports simulations, but they're very, very different sports.

All of those games offer expansive storylines, more than four directions of movement, multiple-ways to take out groups of enemies, and altogether more of everything that makes killing rewarding.VoodooGamer

But none of them have vast, screen-filling swarms of awesome-looking, iconic enemies that give for utterly insane high-action firefights. Doom is in a completely separate subgenre to the above - Doom's real rivals are games like Serious Sam, Starship Troopers and Painkiller. These games don't have stories (or storytelling) - that's not what they're about. You grab your shotgun, and you rock - that's what the games are about, and Doom does it best of all of them.

To acknowledge games like Half Life and Deux Ex as being somehow inherently better than games like Doom and Painkiller would be like saying third person shooters are better than God games. It's absurd to make the comparison.

Doom - which you haven't played at all until you've played it on Ultraviolence or Nightmare - offers the kind of insane killfest action that is without equal. Even its real rivals have nothing on Doom. Now, don't get me wrong, I love great storytelling and great stories (you really should check out System Shock 2), and a good story can make a good game into an even better game, but FPS stories are so consistently so bad, and so disposable, that I can't help but grimace with confusion when people talk about bad stories in FPS games.

Doom has awesome, iconic enemies, it has some awesome and very satisfying to use weaponry and the kind of intensity that just cannot be found in modern FPS games. How can games like Half Life or even Quake replace a game when they cannot reproduce its core mechanics - that being huge swarms of enemies to gun down?

You said it very well my friend. Long live Doom!

[QUOTE="fatshodan"]You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.foxhound_fox

hmm... i tried it for a very, very brief minute or two, and unfortunately the origianl doom (or ultimate doom)'s mouse control isn't very good for some reason; i might have to look into fixing that somehow/getting skulltag. i tried doom 2, and the mouse control works great on that one. i played on ultraviolence, and i didn't notice any difference from what i remember back in the days; maybe i just need to advance further in the game and get to more difficult levels? anyway, thanks for the rec, guys. i'll dabble in it a few more times over the coming weeks.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]You should know first off that I play Doom only on Ultraviolence and Nightmare, and on those difficulty levels, the game is without equal for the kind of intense action it provides. If you haven't played on those difficulty levels, you really don't know the game properly.fireandcloud

hmm... i tried it for a very, very brief minute or two, and unfortunately the origianl doom (or ultimate doom)'s mouse control isn't very good for some reason; i might have to look into fixing that somehow/getting skulltag. i tried doom 2, and the mouse control works great on that one. i played on ultraviolence, and i didn't notice any difference from what i remember back in the days; maybe i just need to advance further in the game and get to more difficult levels? anyway, thanks for the rec, guys. i'll dabble in it a few more times over the coming weeks.

try playing it without the mouse - now THAT'S men's stuff