Can there be a piracy solution that doen't burn the honest buyer?

Well the recent anti piracy on mass effect caused legit game owners to seek out no-cd cracks since this seemed more harmful to the users than the pirates.

Can there really be an anti piracy system that doesn't burn the customer? PC games are decreasing while the consoles dominate in exclusive games. And the annoying casual games florish. They make PC games on software systems that have already been cracked so it's just a matter of time before their game is cracked. No all legit gamers are against cracks cause they extendd the life of your discs and is faster and less annoying.

Can all of us be satisfied? Will halo 3 come to the PC? Will major game be exclusive to the PC? Will major titles launch at the same time with the consoles ( mass effect and gears of war )? Will the best gaming platform be on top again? Is there a solution to this?

The only "solution" is to stop using invasive copy protection methods that hurt consumers, but fail to stop any crackers from releasing the game for free. It is 100% impossible to stop piracy, so why waste money trying? The publishers should cut their losses and pass the savings onto gamers in hopes that less of them steal the game.

Publishers also need to remember that very, very few downloaded copies of a game would have otherwise been purchases, especially with Crysis.

The only "solution" is to stop using invasive copy protection methods that hurt consumers, but fail to stop any crackers from releasing the game for free. It is 100% impossible to stop piracy, so why waste money trying? The publishers should cut their losses and pass the savings onto gamers in hopes that less of them steal the game.

Publishers also need to remember that very, very few downloaded copies of a game would have otherwise been purchases, especially with Crysis.

DGFreak

this.

Not sure if there will ever be a perfect solution, but I hope so... then people like me wont have to take back there unwrapped Mass Effect simply because they were afraid they were buying a paperweight due to crappy programming + broken copy protection + stupid 3 install limit. I really wanted to install the game but after following the official forums I just decided it wasn't worth the risk or possible frustration, especially being a 8800 gt oc user.

Mass Effect is the game that made me decide that if a game comes with to many "issues" that cause frustration then said game isn't worth it. Games are meant for entertainment and fun, somewhere along the way it seems the industry forgot that.

Publishers also need to remember that very, very few downloaded copies of a game would have otherwise been purchases, especially with Crysis.

DGFreak

so if I go out and steal a PS3, I should get away with it because I have no intention of ever buying one? damn, that's some potentially lucrative logic you've got there.

The perfect solution, in my opinion, is Steam. I know alot of people have problems with it, and it sucks if you have dial-up, but it keeps piracy down while providing a useful service to balance it out.

[QUOTE="DGFreak"]

Publishers also need to remember that very, very few downloaded copies of a game would have otherwise been purchases, especially with Crysis.

Mediocre_man90

so if I go out and steal a PS3, I should get away with it because I have no intention of ever buying one? damn, that's some potentially lucrative logic you've got there.

The perfect solution, in my opinion, is Steam. I know alot of people have problems with it, and it sucks if you have dial-up, but it keeps piracy down while providing a useful service to balance it out.

stealing a PS3 is not the same thing as stealing software.. The software you get from a torrent is copied and cracked software froma retail verson of the game.. So look at it this way.. one person buys the game.. then he cracks it and puts it on a program that allows other people to copy and download his version. So its more like buying a game, copying it hundreds of times then giving away all of those copies.

I do agree with steam though.. Probably the best way to help stop piracy is to have your game sold exclusivly on steam. (or have retail versions of the game that can only be installed with steam)

stealing a PS3 is not the same thing as stealing software.. The software you get from a torrent is copied and cracked software froma retail verson of the game.. So look at it this way.. one person buys the game.. then he cracks it and puts it on a program that allows other people to copy and download his version. So its more like buying a game, copying it hundreds of times then giving away all of those copies.

Lilgunney612

It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, you're still getting something that you would normally have to pay for, and not paying a cent. That's the definition of stealing, any way you look at it.

Steam doesnt keep pircay down who told u that.Pirated version of all games avilabe in steam r out there

sandeep410

Not Half-Life 2. Or Portal, TF2, or any other game that Valve makes. You have to have a steam account that says you've bought the game to play any of those.

I really don't see why they waste their money on copy protection. It doesn't slow down pirates and it simply causes more problems for those who actually buy the games.

Also you can pirate steam games though from what I've heard it's alot harder.

[QUOTE="sandeep410"]

Steam doesnt keep pircay down who told u that.Pirated version of all games avilabe in steam r out there

Mediocre_man90

Not Half-Life 2. Or Portal, TF2, or any other game that Valve makes. You have to have a steam account that says you've bought the game to play any of those.

All of the above are available in working form from torrent sites. There is no form of DRM that prevents piracy, including Steam. All they can do is slow it down some, and not much at that. Bioshock was cracked within a week, Mass Effect took less time than that. Anything publishers can do now to extend that time will greatly inconvenience their paying customers too much, and still won't do anything more than buy them a couple of hours more. They are already alienating some of their customers with their DRM decisions, I don't know if they can risk going much further.

Buttseks.

Yeah, please go with some buttseks.

Haha no, you know I'm jk with your mind. There are no piracy solutions because piracy is teh nuts.

[QUOTE="Lilgunney612"]

stealing a PS3 is not the same thing as stealing software.. The software you get from a torrent is copied and cracked software froma retail verson of the game.. So look at it this way.. one person buys the game.. then he cracks it and puts it on a program that allows other people to copy and download his version. So its more like buying a game, copying it hundreds of times then giving away all of those copies.

Mediocre_man90

It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, you're still getting something that you would normally have to pay for, and not paying a cent. That's the definition of stealing, any way you look at it.

Steam doesnt keep pircay down who told u that.Pirated version of all games avilabe in steam r out there

sandeep410

Not Half-Life 2. Or Portal, TF2, or any other game that Valve makes. You have to have a steam account that says you've bought the game to play any of those.

I never said it was right and infact it isnt. But that doesnt mean that 1 pirated game means one lost sale.

Companies need to work out that no DRM works.

Companies need to be able to say clearly they can stop 0 day piracy.

To do this they do not supply the entire game on the install discs. They ask those who install it to send a request to get the rest of the data, a small download, and send a cd key for validation.

I think this is adequate enough, with Steam it stops day 0 piracy, and it can work for other publishers.

Companies need to work out that no DRM works.

Companies need to be able to say clearly they can stop 0 day piracy.

To do this they do not supply the entire game on the install discs. They ask those who install it to send a request to get the rest of the data, a small download, and send a cd key for validation.

I think this is adequate enough, with Steam it stops day 0 piracy, and it can work for other publishers.

nutcrackr

1st of all portal,Hl2,Tf2 all these games pirated version r avilabe and they r working and ur method wont stop pircay either bec person who wants to pirate it will get the full game and make copies and give it away.Better way is to make s software whihc will be in game cd this software will destroy all the game data if game is being copied but that even that might be crcaked

[QUOTE="nutcrackr"]

Companies need to work out that no DRM works.

Companies need to be able to say clearly they can stop 0 day piracy.

To do this they do not supply the entire game on the install discs. They ask those who install it to send a request to get the rest of the data, a small download, and send a cd key for validation.

I think this is adequate enough, with Steam it stops day 0 piracy, and it can work for other publishers.

sandeep410

1st of all portal,Hl2,Tf2 all these games pirated version r avilabe and they r working and ur method wont stop pircay either bec person who wants to pirate it will get the full game and make copies and give it away.Better way is to make s software whihc will be in game cd this software will destroy all the game data if game is being copied but that even that might be crcaked

Learn to spell and maybe we can take you seriously.

Yes you can still get a pirated version of a valve game but you risk losing your account and getting caught due to the fact how its all validated through Steam. And sense you cannot put a game on steam unless your online, (without a crack anyway) its almost impossible to actually use the game. Yes there are cracks, but it is so hard to get them to work that you might aswell just buy the game.

i dunno if it's a solution, but i always like it when the devs or publishers or whoever puts out a fake cracked version that crashes like 20 minutes into the game. that way, some people give up looking for a real cracked version if all they keep on finding is the fake version.fireandcloud

pirates don't have a dog-eat-dog mentality, though, it'll be taken down pretty quickly.

Other than something like steam where you have to be logged into their account to use some programs, no there is no way.

Anything that can be built, can be taken apart. Any copy protection that can be implemented, can be taken away.

Codemeter and other security dongles work perfectly, they're basically imposible to crack and don't burn the consumer. Every game could come with one and you install with the disc then you only need to plug in the game's dongle to play, no disc swapping needed.Flanker15

And whats stopping a pirate from emulating the dongle. Anyways, piracy is impossible to stop, so I would just recommend that companines just use the old method of taking a cd key. Anymore copyright protection is just useless.

Not Half-Life 2. Or Portal, TF2, or any other game that Valve makes. You have to have a steam account that says you've bought the game to play any of those.Mediocre_man90

Haha, if you really think that Steam stops piracy, you really need to do some research. You can go get just Portal off a torrent and play it. No, the game has been cracked so it does not call home to verify and you don't have to make any type of account with Steam. Thats the whole point of it being cracked. Some of you guys really don't have a clue.

I'd say the best and simplest solution would be to create an account that registers your CD-Key straight from the game.
This is how the process would go:

-Install game without CD-Key prompt
-Run game
-The first window in-game before you can do absolutely anything else would be to put in your cd-key, which is sent to a server for authentication, and create an account linked to that CD-Key to play.
-Play.

This way, you can't skip the cd-key process because it is integrated within the game and every CD-Key will have to be registered and checked for validity to play. Pirates are already struggling with games to play on multiplayer since they can't get a valid CD-Key, so they just download it for the SP and for cracked servers. There are very few games that have available legit/cracked CD-Keys and without one, you wouldn't be able to play a game with this method.

I don't see how this could be bypassed.

I'd say the best and simplest solution would be to create an account that registers your CD-Key straight from the game.
This is how the process would go:

-Install game without CD-Key prompt
-Run game
-The first window in-game before you can do absolutely anything else would be to put in your cd-key, which is sent to a server for authentication, and create an account linked to that CD-Key to play.
-Play.

This way, you can't skip the cd-key process because it is integrated within the game and every CD-Key will have to be registered and checked for validity to play. Pirates are already struggling with games to play on multiplayer since they can't get a valid CD-Key, so they just download it for the SP and for cracked servers. There are very few games that have available legit/cracked CD-Keys and without one, you wouldn't be able to play a game with this method.

I don't see how this could be bypassed.

IceCold54

Easily cracked.. And it is pretty much the same thing that valve games do.. Only it validates through steam unstead of in-game.

Developers can never stop piracy without seriously annoying/harming legal customers and that is a sad fact. I will never buy anything with awful copy protection like Bioshock or Mass Effect. The developers care too much about the pirates, yeah yeah it's sad and they have a right to be angry (I would be too), BUT..!

(Quoting Brad Wardell, Stardock)
"The reason why we don't put copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count."

And that's how all developers should think about pirates, ignore them. Why should they matter? 99% of the time the AREN'T going to buy the game anyway. If a developer cares more that some guy has to wait a few days more to download a game... than that I, THE CUSTOMER have to put up with all kinds of horrible DRM and copy protection, that dev ain't getting my money.

[QUOTE="IceCold54"]

I'd say the best and simplest solution would be to create an account that registers your CD-Key straight from the game.
This is how the process would go:

-Install game without CD-Key prompt
-Run game
-The first window in-game before you can do absolutely anything else would be to put in your cd-key, which is sent to a server for authentication, and create an account linked to that CD-Key to play.
-Play.

This way, you can't skip the cd-key process because it is integrated within the game and every CD-Key will have to be registered and checked for validity to play. Pirates are already struggling with games to play on multiplayer since they can't get a valid CD-Key, so they just download it for the SP and for cracked servers. There are very few games that have available legit/cracked CD-Keys and without one, you wouldn't be able to play a game with this method.

I don't see how this could be bypassed.

Lilgunney612

Easily cracked.. And it is pretty much the same thing that valve games do.. Only it validates through steam unstead of in-game.

easily cracked? How so? Unless pirates cut out that part of the game, which would be like cutting out the menu... then there is no way you can bypass this. Even if they manage to rip the game from install, which is what they do with steam so it deosnt have to be registered, when you run the game you still need to register it from the menu to play anything.

Be a little more elaborate if you think other wise.

Problem is there are clever people out there that can reverse engineer anti piracy measures (of any kind, and any future kind) right out of the game.

You can't stop piracy.

However, with a service like Steam, it at least (similar to iTunes) encourages people to pay for digital downloads rather than getting them from illegal means.

The only solution is to hunt them down *grabs shotgun* who is with me?ZuluEcho14

*grabs mini gun...puts magnum in pocket* ill be there asap....this minigun is heavy. WHEEZ!!!

seriously...the first thing companies need to accept is that they can never ever really abolish piracy becauase the ppl who actively back it are too numerous and way to smart. what we might see as a deterrent...they see it as a challenge. u cant fight that.

the reason pairacy is less apparent on consoles is for 2 reasonts

1) console shave a PR machine that size of a smal nation...they would never ever discuss the chance of piracy on their system or piracy figures.

2) the consoles have anti piracy measures built into them from day 1...the PC does not.

point 1 is a bit of a joke.

but the PC could learn an awful lot from point 2. what consoles do is create hassle for pirates but the system remains mostly hidden from legit customers. a legit customer on a console put in the disc and the game works and all modes are available to them. whats mroe..the game will always work on that console for them. its a very harsh anti piracy system but its a system that onle effects non legit customers. its invisible to legit customers.

obhiously the system is not perfect..it is crackable but its hassle and pirates could very well end up with a lesser game or the game may refuse to work after a firmware update. worst case scenario..they might need to mod the console. the number of ppl willing to do that is quite small in the grand scheme of things (in many countires its also illegal....though the ethical merits of that can be discussed in a different topic.

PC has no such hassle. a quick guide and ure usually good to go. sometimes online migh be disabeled but it wont be long before non offical servers and options are open to pirates. updates to windows wont mess it up. so really pirates have it pretty easy on the PC.

to really combat this problem...i think the PCGA, along with major software devs and hardware manufacturers, should start looking at a complete anti piracy system..from hardware to software. build anti piracy measures into the hardware. make it part of the chipset...part of the GPU and CPU also. have seperate firmware on the motherboard that handels authentication (dont leave it up to the OS) and update that firmware to close gaps.

again it wouldnt be perfect...but hacking that system would create a huge amount of hassle (and possibly bork ure PC if u tried to tamper with it) and that alone would make more ppl honest.

of course this does sound like HDCP....which has a very bad rep (and some of it is justified of course). the trick to this systme would be to implement it while still maintaining the open nature of the PC. obhiously any form of lock down or lock out in terms of allowing companies or individuals to make hardware or software would be completly unacceptable.

[QUOTE="DGFreak"]

The only "solution" is to stop using invasive copy protection methods that hurt consumers, but fail to stop any crackers from releasing the game for free. It is 100% impossible to stop piracy, so why waste money trying? The publishers should cut their losses and pass the savings onto gamers in hopes that less of them steal the game.

Publishers also need to remember that very, very few downloaded copies of a game would have otherwise been purchases, especially with Crysis.

Lilgunney612

this.

I take that back.

Yes, it's called making games people want to buy.foxhound_fox

This.

I tihnk the CD key on first activation is probably the best. I absolutely hate invasive protection methods. And I include needing to have the game disc in my drive to play the game as an invasive method. Could you imagine having to put your MS office disk in the drive every time you want to make a document??

I have a lot of games on my computer, and I really resent having to dig through my CD case to find a disc before I can play my purchased game!

I really don't trust a thing about piracy I read on a forum. When someone says "companies should just stop trying to stop piracy" I have no idea if they're just someone who pirates games and just wants it to be easier. Skeptomania

Dude you have one of the funniest avatars Ive ever seen.

easily cracked? How so? Unless pirates cut out that part of the game, which would be like cutting out the menu... then there is no way you can bypass this. Even if they manage to rip the game from install, which is what they do with steam so it deosnt have to be registered, when you run the game you still need to register it from the menu to play anything.

Be a little more elaborate if you think other wise.

IceCold54

Problem is there are clever people out there that can reverse engineer anti piracy measures (of any kind, and any future kind) right out of the game.FamiBox

That^^^

They can just crack the activation right out of the EXE itself. Sure it would be a pain but people who crack games just look at it like a challenge.

[QUOTE="sandeep410"][QUOTE="nutcrackr"]

Companies need to work out that no DRM works.

Companies need to be able to say clearly they can stop 0 day piracy.

To do this they do not supply the entire game on the install discs. They ask those who install it to send a request to get the rest of the data, a small download, and send a cd key for validation.

I think this is adequate enough, with Steam it stops day 0 piracy, and it can work for other publishers.

Lilgunney612

1st of all portal,Hl2,Tf2 all these games pirated version r avilabe and they r working and ur method wont stop pircay either bec person who wants to pirate it will get the full game and make copies and give it away.Better way is to make s software whihc will be in game cd this software will destroy all the game data if game is being copied but that even that might be crcaked

Learn to spell and maybe we can take you seriously.

Yes you can still get a pirated version of a valve game but you risk losing your account and getting caught due to the fact how its all validated through Steam. And sense you cannot put a game on steam unless your online, (without a crack anyway) its almost impossible to actually use the game. Yes there are cracks, but it is so hard to get them to work that you might aswell just buy the game.

I know my typing is bad so is my english.Anyway what i meant to say is this how things work u get a pirated copy of orange box u install the necessary games steam doesnt get installed.u can start the game and start playing anygames except TF2 it doesnt validate anything so u can play game without worrrying of ur account getting banned those ppl who buy pirated version wont have steam account anyway

I really don't trust a thing about piracy I read on a forum. When someone says "companies should just stop trying to stop piracy" I have no idea if they're just someone who pirates games and just wants it to be easier. Skeptomania

I own over 150 PC games (Paid for the money that sits in my wallet) and I feel the same. They need to just drop the protection and treat the customers with respect. I hate having a game I just purchased not working due to it finding my system unacceptable for no good reason. Sure, most games work but there is always that one game that will trigger a false alarm and refuse to work, let me play, or just ruin my experience.

[QUOTE="Flanker15"]Codemeter and other security dongles work perfectly, they're basically imposible to crack and don't burn the consumer. Every game could come with one and you install with the disc then you only need to plug in the game's dongle to play, no disc swapping needed.crazycolt1234

And whats stopping a pirate from emulating the dongle. Anyways, piracy is impossible to stop, so I would just recommend that companines just use the old method of taking a cd key. Anymore copyright protection is just useless.

some music production software works off dongle based protection and is yet to be cracked. cubase 4 for example.

Okay so we could come to the conclusion that you can't stop piracy right?

But I XBOX 360 owners modify and play pirated games on their consoles but 360 games still sells well. Piracy exists on both platforms but game developers stray away from the PC because they blame piracy for the loss of sales.

We the PC gamers get titles late ( gears of war, mass effect ) or don't get it at all ( Halo 3 - I really wanted to play that game ). I think if piracy was contained a little bit PC gamers would benefit greatly.;)

[QUOTE="crazycolt1234"]

[QUOTE="Flanker15"]Codemeter and other security dongles work perfectly, they're basically imposible to crack and don't burn the consumer. Every game could come with one and you install with the disc then you only need to plug in the game's dongle to play, no disc swapping needed.Macutchi

And whats stopping a pirate from emulating the dongle. Anyways, piracy is impossible to stop, so I would just recommend that companines just use the old method of taking a cd key. Anymore copyright protection is just useless.

some music production software works off dongle based protection and is yet to be cracked. cubase 4 for example.

And if you lose or damage said dongle for your games, you are SOL. Admittedly, you can say the same thing about the discs themselves, but it's a lot easier to care for, store and find a specific game disc (use a rack, some kind of folder or a mechanical system) than it is to do the same for a pile of dongles. You know, also, that the game companies are going to be inconsistent in labeling the things as well. Given that I have a collection of over 300 games for my PC, I really don't want to have to store a dongle for each game. In other words, no sale, bad idea, don't even go there. I'd rather have Starforce (gaming gods forgive me for saying that!)

[QUOTE="Lilgunney612"][QUOTE="IceCold54"]

I'd say the best and simplest solution would be to create an account that registers your CD-Key straight from the game.
This is how the process would go:

-Install game without CD-Key prompt
-Run game
-The first window in-game before you can do absolutely anything else would be to put in your cd-key, which is sent to a server for authentication, and create an account linked to that CD-Key to play.
-Play.

This way, you can't skip the cd-key process because it is integrated within the game and every CD-Key will have to be registered and checked for validity to play. Pirates are already struggling with games to play on multiplayer since they can't get a valid CD-Key, so they just download it for the SP and for cracked servers. There are very few games that have available legit/cracked CD-Keys and without one, you wouldn't be able to play a game with this method.

I don't see how this could be bypassed.

IceCold54

Easily cracked.. And it is pretty much the same thing that valve games do.. Only it validates through steam unstead of in-game.

easily cracked? How so? Unless pirates cut out that part of the game, which would be like cutting out the menu... then there is no way you can bypass this. Even if they manage to rip the game from install, which is what they do with steam so it deosnt have to be registered, when you run the game you still need to register it from the menu to play anything.

Be a little more elaborate if you think other wise.

It's possible to stop Piracy. The internet is all interconnected 24/7. We should create an Artificial intelligence, with no single home, that moves from computer to computer and eventually ecompasses all of the internet worldwide, and it monitors all internet behavior, and disallows any user from illegally downloading a game they do not own. It scans everyones computers and servers on a repeated basis seeing if a game is a crack or being downloaded/uploaded by computers, and it disables/corrupts them.

The people of America will call it oppression....

The people of the world call it....

*Dramatic rising music*

SKYNET

Well the recent anti piracy on mass effect caused legit game owners to seek out no-cd cracks since this seemed more harmful to the users than the pirates.

Can there really be an anti piracy system that doesn't burn the customer? PC games are decreasing while the consoles dominate in exclusive games. And the annoying casual games florish. They make PC games on software systems that have already been cracked so it's just a matter of time before their game is cracked. No all legit gamers are against cracks cause they extendd the life of your discs and is faster and less annoying.

Can all of us be satisfied? Will halo 3 come to the PC? Will major game be exclusive to the PC? Will major titles launch at the same time with the consoles ( mass effect and gears of war )? Will the best gaming platform be on top again? Is there a solution to this?

d_originaldappa

What are you talking about, there was no cd protection in Mass Effect. You didn't need the CD to play.

All they need to do is get with the times and build the protection into all of the games files instead of just one exe or dll file, so that it makes it ridiculously slow to crack. I don't want to see online authentication or limited installs (like ME).