civ 4: what makes it good?

Hey can somebody tell me what's so amazing about Civ 4? I hadn't played a civ game and they are usually hyped beyond belief so I went and got Civ 4 and wow frankly it sucks. The techs make no difference to anything since they just simply unlock more research, the entire interface is cryptic icons and I cant work out how to do simple things like change state religion or civics nor do I have any idea how to fix overcrowding or even what it or starvations caused by. Everything takes WAY too long to build, the tutorial is USELESS and barely touches on the game meaning I had almost no idea how to play, war is a total bore and the battles seem random. Everything seems free which takes the planning out of everything and I'm WINNING even tho I have no idea what I'm doing!!! UGH!

The entire game consists of clicking on the end turn button again and again, clicking random icons from countless pop up menus and watching nothing happening Can somebody enlighten me on why the game is so amazing?

I also thing the creator is totally self absorbed. Not only is the game called Sid Meier's Civilization every place it can fit the guy narrates the useless tutorial himself. Mm whatever buddy. I'm going back to total war. At least that game teaches you how to play properly and is actually strategic.

I've been playing this game for 4 hours and I'm utterly bored.

What makes Civilization good? I dunno... it's only one of the longest standing, greatest strategy games of all time. Obviously it's not for everybody... but I'll tell you it ain't a good idea to try to start an arguement about whether the series sucks or not... because their are some fanatical people out there. Personally for me, I found Civ4 a total letdown compared to 3, which is in my opinion the best of the civs.

Maybe the reason you are not enjoying it is because you are not getting deep enough into it... it's not the kind of game you can pick up and play, like UT04 or other shooters... it takes time to learn the tricks of the trade, or in your case some basics.

What makes Civilization good? I dunno... it's only one of the longest standing, greatest strategy games of all time. Obviously it's not for everybody... but I'll tell you it ain't a good idea to try to start an arguement about whether the series sucks or not... because their are some fanatical people out there. Personally for me, I found Civ4 a total letdown compared to 3, which is in my opinion the best of the civs.

Maybe the reason you are not enjoying it is because you are not getting deep enough into it... it's not the kind of game you can pick up and play, like UT04 or other shooters... it takes time to learn the tricks of the trade, or in your case some basics.

Tsunami23

I KNEW somebody would write me off as a mindless shooter fan I play almost nothing but RTS and grand stragery games. I am NOT a sugar fueled short attention spanned idiot so dont assume I am one. The reason i dotn like it is beacuse there NO depth and the interface sucks. Not because its too hard. Didnt you even READ my post?

Maybe the reason you are not enjoying it is because you are not getting deep enough into it... it's not the kind of game you can pick up and play, like UT04 or other shooters... it takes time to learn the tricks of the trade, or in your case some basics.

Tsunami23

Right there you assumed I was weened on mindless shooters.

[QUOTE="Tsunami23"]

Maybe the reason you are not enjoying it is because you are not getting deep enough into it... it's not the kind of game you can pick up and play, like UT04 or other shooters... it takes time to learn the tricks of the trade, or in your case some basics.

ForlornHope

Right there you assumed I was weened on mindless shooters.

Tsunami23

From your post it seemed like:

1) You had no idea that the game was a TBS and not an RTS and thus you treated it as an RTS.(Asking why you had to end your turn all the time just proves this)

2) You didn't pay close attention to the tutorial(Everything meir says in the tutorial is important and from the things you've said it's pretty obvious you didn't pay much attention) I did the same thing when I first played civIV and got frustrated as hell, until I redid the tutorial level

3) You're expecting this game to be an easy pick up and play game. THis game requires strategy and the reason you're winning at all in normal skirmish is because the difficulty is set very low. You may or may not be able to adjust that in the demo.(Unless that is you bought the retail) Try playing online or crank the difficulty to at least normal settings and you'll get your ass handed to you if you have no idea what you're doing.

4) If you don't even know how to change civics you REALLY need to redo that tutorial

5) This isn't a pointer, but even daring to diss Sid Meir is not a very good idea. The guy is a pioneer in the video game world and has probably been developing games before you were born. He is constantly know as one of the best game designers of all time and it shows. The reason why his name is on the box is because of his status as a legendary dev and because of his first major game he made, Civilization I. After that game the whole "Put my name with my game" thing kind of stuck with gamers and with fans alike.

From your post it seemed like:

1) You had no idea that the game was a TBS and not an RTS and thus you treated it as an RTS.(Asking why you had to end your turn all the time just proves this)

2) You didn't pay close attention to the tutorial(Everything meir says in the tutorial is important and from the things you've said it's pretty obvious you didn't pay much attention) I did the same thing when I first played civIV and got frustrated as hell, until I redid the tutorial level

3) You're expecting this game to be an easy pick up and play game. THis game requires strategy and the reason you're winning at all in normal skirmish is because the difficulty is set very low. You may or may not be able to adjust that in the demo.(Unless that is you bought the retail) Try playing online or crank the difficulty to at least normal settings and you'll get your ass handed to you if you have no idea what you're doing.

4) If you don't even know how to change civics you REALLY need to redo that tutorial

5) This isn't a pointer, but even daring to diss Sid Meir is not a very good idea. The guy is a pioneer in the video game world and has probably been developing games before you were born. He is constantly know as one of the best game designers of all time and it shows. The reason why his name is on the box is because of his status as a legendary dev and because of his first major game he made, Civilization I. After that game the whole "Put my name with my game" thing kind of stuck with gamers and with fans alike.

onemic

1 No on the contrary I've played many TBS games and fully understand the idea of it. What I meant was there nothing to do except wait for things to be constructed and fight seemingly pointless wars so I'm just passing time till the next bit such as a building completed by ending a lot of turns etc.I don't call waiting around and twiddling my thumbs strategic or complex. I call it bad unengaging game design. Also it seems a heck of a lot can be automated so the game plays itself.

2. Yes I did I went through it all listening to and reading everything said.

3. Not at all. I prefer a game to be complex what I saying is there a complete dearth of content and things to do.

4. I know researching the tech lets you use that system but there doesn't seem to be a place to change whenever you want. Likewise with religion.

5. If I game sucks I don't really care with made it. Everyone stuffs up sometimes even people like Shingeru Miyamoto, Hideo Kojima and other greats. Not daring to say a game sucks because of who made it seems dumb because of somebody produces crap they need to be told it sucks as well as the fact that if a game sucks but is made by a supposedly great name its worse of a let down.

I have the full game. I will do the tutorial again but I don't think its going to change anything

The things you talked about that you didn't understand are very basic. I've played Civ2 (used to play it a bit), and it's quite obvious- give it some more time or look at a couple manuals/online manuals and you'll find the things that you're talking about are quickly remidied; you have user-operated erorr: Don't blame the game, it's a HUGE TBS, not meant to be fully understood in 5 minutes.Strong_Wizard

I've been playing for four hours and I'm an experienced gamer so I thought I'd have an idea

I KNEW somebody would write me off as a mindless shooter fan I play almost nothing but RTS and grand stragery games. I am NOT a sugar fueled short attention spanned idiot so dont assume I am one. The reason i dotn like it is beacuse there NO depth and the interface sucks. Not because its too hard. Didnt you even READ my post?

Lol he said nothing of the sort! Did you READ his post?

Anyway, Civ 4 is a game you have to spend time learning and getting into. It can get quite complex, and if you don't like waiting then more than likely you won't like the game. Also after looking through your profile I see you don't seem to like strategy games at all...

I KNEW somebody would write me off as a mindless shooter fan I play almost nothing but RTS and grand stragery games. I am NOT a sugar fueled short attention spanned idiot so dont assume I am one. The reason i dotn like it is beacuse there NO depth and the interface sucks. Not because its too hard. Didnt you even READ my post?

FragMonkey09

Lol he said nothing of the sort! Did you READ his post?

Anyway, Civ 4 is a game you have to spend time learning and getting into. It can get quite complex, and if you don't like waiting then more than likely you won't like the game. Also after looking through your profile I see you don't seem to like strategy games at all...

look closer. I dont like med 2 because its a buggy mess thats about the only bit.

So, you've played the game for a grand total of 4 hours and you think you're experienced enough to judge the entire game by your small bumbling playthrough? You've barely scratched the surface.

Now I'm a huge fan of the Total War games, but Civ 4 is a different beast entierly. Where innevitably all conflict in Total War comes down to battles, thus the entire 'total war' thingy, civ 4 is more based around the other aspects of civilizations throughout time. Diplomacy, exploration, technological advancement, socialogy, etc. Some of the technologies you're researching may seem unimportant and they wont give you piles of new units to train like your typical rts, but they're important in that they're a stepping stone towards greater technologies. For example, one of the ways to win Civ4 is to be the first to enter space in the space race. A small but focused country can conceivably win the game through this method, whereas in most games if you're not the biggest by the end of the game, you've lost.

Economy is well designed and you can use diplomacy with other nations to trade certain resources for others, opening new options entierly and providing the base of the games diplomatic edge. Here, you're social aspect also comes into play since naturally some ideologies you have open to you wont agree with other nations choices. Not to mention you also have your own people to worry about which takes more managing than simply building a couple taverns and churches to keep em happy.

Admitedly Civ4 is a much slower game than most out there, even other turn based games, but it's a great game. If you've got the time and patience to really dig into this instead of... oh, I dunno, playing 4 hours and then posting on the forums how crappy the game is, you might find you like it! You're free not to like the game, everyones got their own oppinions, but seriously; your post reeks of trying to be a cool ethug 'so edgy'.

Give the game an honest try, you might find you like it. It lacks the punch of your usual actiony game and there are little to no viscral thrills, but it's got it's charm in other places such as being the first to complete a world wonder or using diplomacy to manipulate two enemies into going to war with each other and leaving you alone, even finally getting that deal to import rare metals to your country so you can finally begin development on some difficult project. Good times!

So, you've played the game for a grand total of 4 hours and you think you're experienced enough to judge the entire game by your small bumbling playthrough? You've barely scratched the surface.

Now I'm a huge fan of the Total War games, but Civ 4 is a different beast entierly. Where innevitably all conflict in Total War comes down to battles, thus the entire 'total war' thingy, civ 4 is more based around the other aspects of civilizations throughout time. Diplomacy, exploration, technological advancement, socialogy, etc. Some of the technologies you're researching may seem unimportant and they wont give you piles of new units to train like your typical rts, but they're important in that they're a stepping stone towards greater technologies. For example, one of the ways to win Civ4 is to be the first to enter space in the space race. A small but focused country can conceivably win the game through this method, whereas in most games if you're not the biggest by the end of the game, you've lost.

Economy is well designed and you can use diplomacy with other nations to trade certain resources for others, opening new options entierly and providing the base of the games diplomatic edge. Here, you're social aspect also comes into play since naturally some ideologies you have open to you wont agree with other nations choices. Not to mention you also have your own people to worry about which takes more managing than simply building a couple taverns and churches to keep em happy.

Admitedly Civ4 is a much slower game than most out there, even other turn based games, but it's a great game. If you've got the time and patience to really dig into this instead of... oh, I dunno, playing 4 hours and then posting on the forums how crappy the game is, you might find you like it! You're free not to like the game, everyones got their own oppinions, but seriously; your post reeks of trying to be a cool ethug 'so edgy'.

Give the game an honest try, you might find you like it. It lacks the punch of your usual actiony game and there are little to no viscral thrills, but it's got it's charm in other places such as being the first to complete a world wonder or using diplomacy to manipulate two enemies into going to war with each other and leaving you alone, even finally getting that deal to import rare metals to your country so you can finally begin development on some difficult project. Good times!

the_mad_madman

ok that makes sense :) I'll have another go at it. it does sound like a great idea on paper paticly with how crappy the Total war games dipomacy is Thats one if the good parts of civ the very detailed duiplomacy. The Civloapedia is a very interesting real too sicne i love history.

ok that makes sense :) I'll have another go at it. it does sound like a great idea on paper paticly with how crappy the Total war games dipomacy is Thats one if the good parts of civ the very detailed duiplomacy. The Civloapedia is a very interesting real too sicne i love history.

ForlornHope

Good Luck! It might take awhile for you to figure it all out, especially since unlike me or many other civ fans, you never played any of the previous games. But once you know how it all works, you'd be surprised just how deep the game is. And yeah, diplomacy is much, much better than in Total War or most other strategy games. Still not perfect, but definently some of the best out there.

A tip: Instead of looking at each techonology on its own, use the technology ladder to see what they lead up to! It may seem useless at first, but you'd be amazed at how simple some of the most powerful techs start out. Early in the game tends to be a bit boring, but honestly, you're controlling cavemen and guys with pointy sticks, of course it's not as complex. But believe me, by the end you'll be spending alot longer on each turn than at the start where you're just pressing it and waiting for the next thing to finish.

[QUOTE="onemic"]

From your post it seemed like:

1) You had no idea that the game was a TBS and not an RTS and thus you treated it as an RTS.(Asking why you had to end your turn all the time just proves this)

2) You didn't pay close attention to the tutorial(Everything meir says in the tutorial is important and from the things you've said it's pretty obvious you didn't pay much attention) I did the same thing when I first played civIV and got frustrated as hell, until I redid the tutorial level

3) You're expecting this game to be an easy pick up and play game. THis game requires strategy and the reason you're winning at all in normal skirmish is because the difficulty is set very low. You may or may not be able to adjust that in the demo.(Unless that is you bought the retail) Try playing online or crank the difficulty to at least normal settings and you'll get your ass handed to you if you have no idea what you're doing.

4) If you don't even know how to change civics you REALLY need to redo that tutorial

5) This isn't a pointer, but even daring to diss Sid Meir is not a very good idea. The guy is a pioneer in the video game world and has probably been developing games before you were born. He is constantly know as one of the best game designers of all time and it shows. The reason why his name is on the box is because of his status as a legendary dev and because of his first major game he made, Civilization I. After that game the whole "Put my name with my game" thing kind of stuck with gamers and with fans alike.

ForlornHope

1 No on the contrary I've played many TBS games and fully understand the idea of it. What I meant was there nothing to do except wait for things to be constructed and fight seemingly pointless wars so I'm just passing time till the next bit such as a building completed by ending a lot of turns etc.I don't call waiting around and twiddling my thumbs strategic or complex. I call it bad unengaging game design. Also it seems a heck of a lot can be automated so the game plays itself.

2. Yes I did I went through it all listening to and reading everything said.

3. Not at all. I prefer a game to be complex what I saying is there a complete dearth of content and things to do.

4. I know researching the tech lets you use that system but there doesn't seem to be a place to change whenever you want. Likewise with religion.

5. If I game sucks I don't really care with made it. Everyone stuffs up sometimes even people like Shingeru Miyamoto, Hideo Kojima and other greats. Not daring to say a game sucks because of who made it seems dumb because of somebody produces crap they need to be told it sucks as well as the fact that if a game sucks but is made by a supposedly great name its worse of a let down.

I have the full game. I will do the tutorial again but I don't think its going to change anything

You really didn't pay attention with that tutorial. It DOES tell you how to change civics and shows you the menu where you can change civics on the fly. If all you're doing is pressing the end button all day long then you've either just started a game or you just don't know what the hell you're doing. The tutorial covers the basics and helps you get off your feet, but it doesn't cover every single thing there is to know about civIV. That's what the manual is for. It's quite a big one too.

And you dissed sid meir personally, which is really different then dissing only civIV. Like I said, doing something like that is generally a bad idea, unless that is you like being flamed.

If you don't like slower based TBS games this game probably isn't for you, however if you liked TBS games like galactic civilization 2 then this game will most lkely be up your alley. You just need to get accustomed to it that's all. BTW what TBS games have you played/owned recently?