Command & Conquer: Dawn of Supreme CommanderCraft

So been a huge fan of C&C since the first release and obviously I've been supporting and following the series ever since. But lately... I look at the new C&C screenshots and read the previews and all though it looks good and promising, I can't help feel that it's not C&C. I see giant walking bases (seems way to familiar to Supreme commander to me), small limited armies bought with points accumulated (Dawn of War 2), and having to be online for singleplayer content is the same rubbish as what Blizzard is pulling with StarCraft 2.

I fact I'm not so much p'd off at C&C as I am at the whole RTS genre going to hell. What were they thinking when making Dawn of War 2?! Where is my base building? Sure it' a new fresh direction but don't call it Dawn of War then, call Warhammer:40K Tactical Command for all that I care but don't call it Dawn of War. Why do I have to wait months for DLC that is made to complete a watered down game, that I paid full price for on release. Why don't you just add it in from the start? Yes give me new maps and levels in a DLC for make sure the game itself is fully done before you ship it.

Why do I have to be online to unlock achievements or units or even play the game? Why is everyone so obsessed with being online? Why can't I play offline in my own home by myself if I so choose? WHY CAN"T WE PLAY LAN? How stupid is it to go to a friend's place only to go online to play against him/her? EA also pulled this stunt so it's not just Blizzard that do this. And what is the point of leveling you profile? To get extra/better units. Sure but isn't that unfair to the guy that is only level 1? No, he can build units to counter the higher tier units. So what's the point of leveling and getting higer tier units then if the level unit 1 are so pwnzor?

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

I'm looking forward to C&C4 but it's not Command & Conquer same with StarCraft 2, Supreme Commander 2 and many more. I know I'll be eating my hat when they do come out and they are (by some miraculous reason) true to their predecessors but for the time being I'm cautious. By now I'm so used to my favorite series and genres being molested and changed into something I can't even recognize any more. Maybe I just need some sleep,maybe I'm just over workerd, maybe I should just get out of my "Old School" thinking as the future of gaming will never be what it once was.

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

Oom_Gert

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

Dawn of War 2 is great, base building wasnt really needed in dawn of war i mean you are just some squads getting shot down right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a stab at Dawn of War 2, so calm down all you fans. All I'm saying is that DoW2 wasn't the same as DoW1 so don't call it that, give it a different name don't fool us in thinking it's in the same series. My gripe with DoW2 was that it felt like there was some elements missing, maybe it's just because I expected it to be more similar to DoW1.

There is a place in the gaming world for fast paced and competitive games like DoW2. I'm not disputing this nor am I saying it's bad, all I'm saying is that the"slower paced" rts games, it seems,is now something of the past and here is where my complaint comes in, there still is a place for these games too. I'm complaining about the state of RTS games as a whole and not picking on a specific title DoW was just used as an example. I hated what they did to Age of Empires 3, I also had problems with C&C3 for example. Why can't someone make a crappy old school RTS game anymore? Universe at War was amazing, enough of the "old" but also innovative enough to be new, heck I'm even willing to admit I liked Sunage.

[QUOTE="Oom_Gert"]

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

warmaster670

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

The thing is that DoWII compared to C&C, SC and WCIII does not actually play that fast. The fact is that having resource gathering and base building does not actually change how fast the game plays. I feel that removing resource gathering and base building simply takes away options. To be honest I rather be destroying enemy workers and bases and capping randomly placed points.

I agree with you. I really tried to like DoW2, but it's just not as good as the first one. I loved building my base and setting up defenses while scouting for ways to take command points. The second one was way too much of a departure for me to enjoy it as a RTS. Boo.

i love no base building n resource management.. bases were just a waste of space once you were royall done by a bad skirmish gone route by an emeney player, and resource management was simply a way of making you WAIT longer for each unit.. which imo can be done with slower build times and resource trickle rates.

The reason I like base building is it's fun to blow up bases, and not just units. Also, it provides a few more strategic options in regards to how you build your base and where you build your base at.zomglolcats

as a guy whos been at the rts scenes since warcraft 2 (non battle.net edition) all i ever saw bases as was a waste of space your enemy needed to blow up (which if they got to that point you were better of sitting on your hands n waiting for the end) and where you built your base didnt matter much it was always going to be close to resources n far from the enemy any chump can do that.

[QUOTE="zomglolcats"]The reason I like base building is it's fun to blow up bases, and not just units. Also, it provides a few more strategic options in regards to how you build your base and where you build your base at.aura_enchanted

as a guy whos been at the rts scenes since warcraft 2 (non battle.net edition) all i ever saw bases as was a waste of space your enemy needed to blow up (which if they got to that point you were better of sitting on your hands n waiting for the end) and where you built your base didnt matter much it was always going to be close to resources n far from the enemy any chump can do that.

However, bases can be very much offensive strategies. I recall many times in Starcraft building bunkers and barracks right outside someone's base and proceed to send in wave after wave of marines. And then there was the protoss tactic of building pylons and cannons outside right on the edge of a base to take out any army they might send. Of course, these offensive bases are more of what I'd consider "outposts" than a real base, but I think it's worth noting.

And nuking a base with a Ghost was always satisfying.

[QUOTE="aura_enchanted"]

[QUOTE="zomglolcats"]The reason I like base building is it's fun to blow up bases, and not just units. Also, it provides a few more strategic options in regards to how you build your base and where you build your base at.zomglolcats

as a guy whos been at the rts scenes since warcraft 2 (non battle.net edition) all i ever saw bases as was a waste of space your enemy needed to blow up (which if they got to that point you were better of sitting on your hands n waiting for the end) and where you built your base didnt matter much it was always going to be close to resources n far from the enemy any chump can do that.

never was for me all i saw it was is an excuse to blow more stuff up. C&C has seen it as the light from the future twilight will have little to no structure management. in all the gameplay we have seen the walker seems to be a utility knife of a structure/unit pack up and go wherever & whatever you want.. about the only game i KNOW with bases and minig will be starcraft 2 and i imagine there gonna have second thoughts about game templates dating back to the 1990's

[QUOTE="Oom_Gert"]

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

warmaster670

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

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[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

[QUOTE="Oom_Gert"]

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

DieselCat18

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

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This is a load of crap, Company of Heroes killed much of base building and resource management and still has far more depth than any game in the CNC series, etc.

They aren't watering down the genre, they are taking depth from resource management and base building and putting more depth into unit combat / managment.

Yes I would agree WIC is a rather watered down if you though of it as an RTS, but I don't even think that can be grouped into the RTS genre.

To me all the latest CNC games are a horribly old school overhyped garbage bin series so I'm glad they are moving it in a different direction.

And as for the fans like you oh well, each CNC game sells millions and I think it's on name alone, I think EA could just about crap in each CNC box and it would still sell millions. So if they can take that guaranteed money that the CNC fanboys insure and turn it into something decent then great. It's not going to hurt it's sales really no matter what they do with that abomination of a series.

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

[QUOTE="Oom_Gert"]

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

DieselCat18

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

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QFMFT

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

[QUOTE="Oom_Gert"]

Where is my resource collection? Where is my base building? Where is my RTS games? What happened to simple "get a townhall build a peasant, and harvester, a moronic slave, anything to go and dig for gold, chop wood, gather expensive ore to fill coffers so I can build bigger buildings and more powerful units and research forbidden technologies"?

DieselCat18

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

*+

aaaaaahhhh, Nothing more Beautiful than the truth.

[QUOTE="DieselCat18"]

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

hrah

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

*+

aaaaaahhhh, Nothing more Beautiful than the truth.

[QUOTE="DieselCat18"]

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

da_bomb123

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time stratgey' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexety to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC amoung others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

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QFMFT

+1 QFT, I really hate the casual watered down versions of games we get now. People these days don't have the time or are too lazy to take the time to learn a complicated game with depth. So they complain its boring or slow paced and the devs seem to be listening to them and giving us this plug and play crap we see the market saturated with.

[QUOTE="DieselCat18"]

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

Gone because it sucks, is to slow paced and accomplishes nothing, if you want that go play age of empires.

DoW broke free of boring resource collecting, and DoW2 broke free of pointless base building.

zipozal

This opinion is a perfect example of why RTS games are becoming such watered down versions of what they truly are...'a real time strategy' game. These so called new and improved versions are being made by the developers to appeal to the masses (casual + hard-cord gamers) to sell more games. The results are that true RTS games that have more complexity to them have been simplified so that gamers can get more of that instant fix with out having to work for it......and anyone that thinks these games are slow paced, then they do not know how to play them properly or just don't want to take the time going through the learning curve (probably some just can't figure it out)

It always kills me when I hear comments like the one above..."makes the game to slow"...."boring resource collecting"... "break free of pointless base building".....all these things make up the important parts that equate out to what the strategy is about. If someone doesn't understand that then by all means DoW II and WiC among others are the games for people with no patients or understanding of what a true RTS strategy games is really all about....:roll:

*+

This is a load of crap, Company of Heroes killed much of base building and resource management and still has far more depth than any game in the CNC series, etc.

They aren't watering down the genre, they are taking depth from resource management and base building and putting more depth into unit combat / managment.

Yes I would agree WIC is a rather watered down if you though of it as an RTS, but I don't even think that can be grouped into the RTS genre.

LOL...that may be true when comparing CoH to the CnC series...but when Westwood Studios was taken out of the mix by EA this franchise as been on the downside ever since....So that comparison isn't saying much. And as for the holier than thou CoH...that was sort of the beginning of the transformation of RTS games moving away from resource collecting and base building etc... which in my opinion caused the switch from a truly strategic game play to a tactical one where you as the player merely need to maintain units without the need or worry of an economy to balance it with....which makes resource collecting (thats fighting for map control) and base building (requires an effective economy) as vital parts of the games strategy......You are indeed entitled to your opinion, but...Sorry ...as much as most think that CoH was the greatest thing since sliced bread, I for one was not impressed because I just didn't get the feel of a true RTS (strategy, not tactics) management game by manipulating a small squad pretty much endlessy vs. building and maintaining large army's or civilizations while attacking or defending at the same time...to me the latest versions are a cop out or if you will, taking the easy way out to get to the finish line......and thatis no load of crap my friend......;)

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