Considering an External Sound Card. Suggestions?

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BPoole96

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#1 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts
When it comes to audio specifications and such I am a total noob. I am currently using an Onkyo S3400 5.1 Surround setup and have it connected to my motherboard with a Optical cable. I've been playing around with the settings on the receiver and although it already sounds good, I'd like to make it better without having to spend a lot of money. I'm also concerned of how much better the sound would actually be with a card since I have never used one before. I'm looking to spend no more than $50 and the card has to be external since I do not have room on my expansion bays due to my PC having 2 dual slot GPUs. I live in the US as well if that helps with where to look
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KHAndAnime

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#2 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts
Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.
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BPoole96

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#3 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts
Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.KHAndAnime
I see. So the sound card would do nothing more than give me more sound options?
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KHAndAnime

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#4 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts
[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.BPoole96
I see. So the sound card would do nothing more than give me more sound options?

Pretty much. Digital connections can't really be interfered with like analog ones. You actually already have an external soundcard - and it's your receiver.
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BPoole96

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#5 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts
[QUOTE="BPoole96"][QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.KHAndAnime
I see. So the sound card would do nothing more than give me more sound options?

Pretty much. Digital connections can't really be interfered with like analog ones. You actually already have an external soundcard - and it's your receiver.

I'm thinking I should maybe research audio this stuff a bit more :P
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kraken2109

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#6 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

The signal being sent to the reciever is digital so the signal is perfect.

Your sound quality is being limited by 3 things:

  • Source file - low quality mp3s are never going to sound perfect
  • Speakers - even with a perfect reciever and source, the speakers are where the sound comes from
  • Reciever - It can limit the quality of the sound that's sent to the speakers

I can't comment on what is the limiting factor in your case since i don't know much about your setup, but a sound card won't make a difference if you're using optical.

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bulby_g

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#7 bulby_g
Member since 2005 • 1861 Posts

Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.KHAndAnime
This is not true. Quality soundcards will have better D/A converters which in turn will effect playback quality. Your soundcard will also have a massive effect on recording quality, not important to most gamers I guess but worth mentioning.

I have had an internal card (Echo Mia Midi), an external Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 and have tested the onboard sound and I can assure you each has its own characteristics. From a music production viewpoint the onboard sound is pretty terrible.


To be fair though with the sort of speakers you are running I doubt you would notice a lot of difference and $50 doesn't buy you a quality soundcard so I wouldn't bother.

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kraken2109

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#8 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.bulby_g

This is not true. Quality soundcards will have better D/A converters which in turn will effect playback quality. Your soundcard will also have a massive effect on recording quality, not important to most gamers I guess but worth mentioning.

I have had an internal card (Echo Mia Midi), an external Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 and have tested the onboard sound and I can assure you each has its own characteristics. From a music production viewpoint the onboard sound is pretty terrible.


To be fair though with the sort of speakers you are running I doubt you would notice a lot of difference and $50 doesn't buy you a quality soundcard so I wouldn't bother.

How will the DAC on the sound card make a difference when it's recieving a digital input from the pc and sending it as a digital output to the reciever? Surely the signal stays digital so there's no difference?
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APiranhaAteMyVa

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#9 APiranhaAteMyVa
Member since 2011 • 4160 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.bulby_g

This is not true. Quality soundcards will have better D/A converters which in turn will effect playback quality. Your soundcard will also have a massive effect on recording quality, not important to most gamers I guess but worth mentioning.

I have had an internal card (Echo Mia Midi), an external Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 and have tested the onboard sound and I can assure you each has its own characteristics. From a music production viewpoint the onboard sound is pretty terrible.


To be fair though with the sort of speakers you are running I doubt you would notice a lot of difference and $50 doesn't buy you a quality soundcard so I wouldn't bother.

The digital to analog converter won't be used, as it is being connected to the receiver digitally. The receiver will have the D/A converter, and considering it is an Onkyo amp it should be pretty good. Speakers are by far the biggest upgrade, once you get an amp/DAC that can sufficiently drive the speakers and is transparent, which is incredibly easy to achieve. Even the iPod (and a lot of other portable devices including the really cheap Sansa clip) is pretty much transparent, then the speakers/headphones will by far be the biggest upgrade.
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bulby_g

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#10 bulby_g
Member since 2005 • 1861 Posts

Ah yes sorry, with them types of speakers I guess that's the case. I use studio monitors so I guess it's a totally different story for me! Sorry, should have thought about the individual case a bit better. ;p

I just read "soundcards do not effect sound quality" and thought YOU WHAT!

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Bozanimal

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#11 Bozanimal
Member since 2003 • 2500 Posts

Based on your original comment, what is wrong with the audio right now that you feel it warrants an upgrade?

Happy gaming,

Boz

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kraken2109

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#12 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

Ah yes sorry, with them types of speakers I guess that's the case. I use studio monitors so I guess it's a totally different story for me! Sorry, should have thought about the individual case a bit better. ;p

I just read "soundcards do not effect sound quality" and thought YOU WHAT!

bulby_g
I don't see how it would be different with studio monitors, they're just speakers designed for accuracy.
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#13 Bozanimal
Member since 2003 • 2500 Posts
I don't see how it would be different with studio monitors, they're just speakers designed for accuracy.kraken2109
The dirty secret of the audio world is that there is no practical difference between studio monitors and any other speaker. In theory, hi-fidelity speakers are designed to make music appealing to the ear, while studio monitors are designed to reproduce the source material accurately. In practice, a speaker is a speaker and the differences between monitors are just as wide as any other speaker. The only real difference is marketing. That said, speakers marketed as "Studio Monitors" are more likely to have additional features like an internal amplifier, DAC, balanced inputs, etc. but there is nothing to stop, say, Polk or Definitive from putting those same devices in their home speakers. It's really just a matter of target audience. Happy gaming, Boz
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BPoole96

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#14 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

Based on your original comment, what is wrong with the audio right now that you feel it warrants an upgrade?

Happy gaming,

Boz

Bozanimal

Nothing in particular is wrong with my speaker setup (I actually think they are great, especially considering what I paid for them). I was just under the impression that having them hooked to a sound card would make them sound even better. For ~$50 it would be more than willing to put that towards better sound but if it would cost me $300+ for a good receiver than I'll stick with what I have

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jun_aka_pekto

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#15 jun_aka_pekto
Member since 2010 • 25255 Posts

The digital to analog converter won't be used, as it is being connected to the receiver digitally. APiranhaAteMyVa

I didn't even realize that could be done until I hooked up a set of USB speakers which bypassed my PC audio chip entirely.

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bulby_g

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#16 bulby_g
Member since 2005 • 1861 Posts

I don't see how it would be different with studio monitors, they're just speakers designed for accuracy.kraken2109

I don't know, I was just under the assumption that the sound card made a difference to output quality from everything I have heard. It has got me intrigued so I spoke to an engineer I know who writes for a reputable music magazine and he seemed to think it had an effect on the output quality as well... So if the soundcard does nothing and the signal passes straight through it, why does it make such a huge difference to latency? I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, I'm just interested as I know very little about the inner workings of a soundcard/audio interface.

[QUOTE="kraken2109"]I don't see how it would be different with studio monitors, they're just speakers designed for accuracy.Bozanimal
The dirty secret of the audio world is that there is no practical difference between studio monitors and any other speaker. In theory, hi-fidelity speakers are designed to make music appealing to the ear, while studio monitors are designed to reproduce the source material accurately. In practice, a speaker is a speaker and the differences between monitors are just as wide as any other speaker. The only real difference is marketing. That said, speakers marketed as "Studio Monitors" are more likely to have additional features like an internal amplifier, DAC, balanced inputs, etc. but there is nothing to stop, say, Polk or Definitive from putting those same devices in their home speakers. It's really just a matter of target audience. Happy gaming, Boz

Yes they are made to have as flat a response as possible unlike Hi Fi speakers that tend to have a bass boost and other various boosts and dips in the frequency range. My Bower & Wilkins are certainly more pleasurable to listen to than my Adams but you sure as hell couldn't use them to mix a track well. So it isn't really all marketing, I think that's the wrong word to use. They are just speakers yes but designed with a different purpose and not to make music sound as pleasing as possible. They can also take much more of a beating, if you send half the hums, clicks, and spikes you chuck at a set of monitors in the studio through a set of Hi Fi speakers they will likely break in no time.

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kraken2109

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#17 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

[QUOTE="kraken2109"]I don't see how it would be different with studio monitors, they're just speakers designed for accuracy.bulby_g

I don't know, I was just under the assumption that the sound card made a difference to output quality from everything I have heard. It has got me intrigued so I spoke to an engineer I know who writes for a reputable music magazine and he seemed to think it had an effect on the output quality as well... So if the soundcard does nothing and the signal passes straight through it, why does it make such a huge difference to latency? I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, I'm just interested as I know very little about the inner workings of a soundcard/audio interface.

It reduces latency because it can respond and process audio faster than onboard sound. If you're using anologue outputs a good soundcard will make a difference to quality.

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NVIDIATI

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#18 NVIDIATI
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Yes they are made to have as flat a response as possible unlike Hi Fi speakers that tend to have a bass boost and other various boosts and dips in the frequency range. My Bower & Wilkins are certainly more pleasurable to listen to than my Adams but you sure as hell couldn't use them to mix a track well. So it isn't really all marketing, I think that's the wrong word to use. They are just speakers yes but designed with a different purpose and not to make music sound as pleasing as possible. They can also take much more of a beating, if you send half the hums, clicks, and spikes you chuck at a set of monitors in the studio through a set of Hi Fi speakers they will likely break in no time.bulby_g
Not to say they're bad, but B&W is a poor example, especially the ones you have. A proper HiFi speaker will deliver a flat response.

Take a look at a budget speaker design such as the Zaph SR71.

SR71-modeled-FR-IMP.gif

or a higher end speaker such as the Philharmonic 3

phil3oa.jpg

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KHAndAnime

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#19 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts
High-Fidelity means being able to portray something close to the source material. A proper hi-fi speaker should have nearly a flat response. If it's not mostly flat, then it's not really hi-fi.
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MexiBillBacker

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#22 MexiBillBacker
Member since 2006 • 142 Posts

Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.KHAndAnime

My Creative X-Fi Elite Pro begs to differ and thinks your post is stupid!

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Mcspanky37

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#23 Mcspanky37
Member since 2010 • 1693 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.MexiBillBacker

My Creative X-Fi Elite Pro begs to differ and thinks your post is stupid!

And how does it beg to differ?
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kraken2109

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#24 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Sound cards don't improve digital sound! You want to upgrade your receiver.MexiBillBacker

My Creative X-Fi Elite Pro begs to differ and thinks your post is stupid!

Do you understand what digital means?