Did Sega take advantage of us ? (CoH2 and Rome 2)

I hear all the time that we, PC gamers, should support PC developers. And we really did, Rome 2 was a fastest preordering Total War. 
But now looking in hindsight, I just realized that Sega is taking advantage of us.
First it was Company of Heroes 2 (60 bucks for bad optimization and broken MP), now it´s Rome 2 (60 bucks for beta testing). 
I just realized that Sega is milking us, milking us on our love for strategy games.
Mictrotransacions in CoH2, and day 1 dlc for Rome ... Come on, give us a break. 
No more pre-ordering of Sega games. Will get their games as cheep as posible from Steam sale. Bloody money suckers.

Multi plat developers optimize and beta test their games for PC better now than so called "PC exclusive developers". Are you f*cking kidding me ?

It is a little ridiculous right now that two of the biggest strategy games of the year turned out to be duds, and from the same publisher too.

Company Of Heroes 2 DLC spammage is probably the worst i'v seen in a game. As much as I love Total War, the dlc since Empire has got increasingly worse.

Rome II was a rushed launch, anyone can see it.

If anything it was Aliens Colonial Marines. :P

Company Of Heroes 2 DLC spammage is probably the worst i'v seen in a game. As much as I love Total War, the dlc since Empire has got increasingly worse.

Rome II was a rushed launch, anyone can see it.

uninspiredcup

you mean the skins?....

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Company Of Heroes 2 DLC spammage is probably the worst i'v seen in a game. As much as I love Total War, the dlc since Empire has got increasingly worse.

Rome II was a rushed launch, anyone can see it.

lawlessx

you mean the skins?....

I'm pretty sure anyone who has played or looked at Company Heroes 2 knows exactly what i'm talking about.

If, for some reason you dont, skins and commanders amounted to £72. Around £1.99 each. With the base game having a higher price tag than a normal pc game (£29.99 standard - £39.99 for this).

It's worth noting as well, Rome II was being sold for £44.99 which makes it roughly the highest priced released game ever to appear on steam, well above console games £39.99. This also had launch day DLC (the content was automatically seperated at launch and sold for £5.99).

So yes, Sega suck balls. Rome II was not a good sign. Company Of Heroes 2 was a terrible sign.

Company of Heroes 2 is great, I don't care if they are charging for skins, Valve did as much with customization items in Portal 2. The multiplayer balance was slightly shakey near launch because they inexplicably added back a commander that was deemed overpowered in the beta test. but questionable launch balance is literally always the case with Relic's games. Its much better now. Its also optimized just fine, it has the same shitty netcode that Relic games always have but that is not related to optimization. Most of the hate came from brainwashed Russians who didn't like the way the game portrayed the Red Army in WW 2. 

Rome 2 isn't nearly as broken as some people are making it out to be, myself and many others have experienced only a handful of issues with the game. People are just feeding off each others negativity and jumping on the hate bandwagon. 

Company of Heroes 2 is great, I don't care if they are charging for skins, Valve did as much with customization items in Portal 2. The multiplayer balance was slightly shakey near launch because they inexplicably added back a commander that was deemed overpowered in the beta test. but questionable launch balance is literally always the case with Relic's games. Its much better now. Its also optimized just fine, it has the same shitty netcode that Relic games always have but that is not related to optimization. Most of the hate came from brainwashed Russians who didn't like the way the game portrayed the Red Army in WW 2. 

Rome 2 isn't nearly as broken as some people are making it out to be, myself and many others have experienced only a handful of issues with the game. People are just feeding off each others negativity and jumping on the hate bandwagon. 

with_teeth26

Cosign 100%, thanks for saving my the time to write it all out teeth.

Usually I can understand the backlash for games/game but these two I honestly think its hilarious all the hate the two are getting. They both feel like good entrys to the series to me, not GOTY worthy maybe but very enjoyable, atleast to me. Could they be better? Yes but all of the hate and wishing of bad things to happen to the devs and publishers makes me smh. Also if im not mistaken all the random SKINS for COH2 can be earned in the game and dont give an advantage to others even if people do buy them. SO what if they aded a whole bunch of dlc skins? its not like they are buying stuff that you cannot unluck in the game.

Don't really see whats unreasonable about it. You plop £44.99 down for a game, at the very least you expect it to work. For alot of people this isn't the case.

And even worse, some people are having the game (Rome II) break after 50-60 turns in. Unacceptible.

Don't really see whats unreasonable about it. You plop £44.99 down for a game, at the very least you expect it to work. For alot of people this isn't the case.

And even worse, some people are having the game (Rome II) break after 50-60 turns in. Unacceptible.

uninspiredcup

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Don't really see whats unreasonable about it. You plop £44.99 down for a game, at the very least you expect it to work. For alot of people this isn't the case.

And even worse, some people are having the game (Rome II) break after 50-60 turns in. Unacceptible.

wis3boi

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Don't really see whats unreasonable about it. You plop £44.99 down for a game, at the very least you expect it to work. For alot of people this isn't the case.

And even worse, some people are having the game (Rome II) break after 50-60 turns in. Unacceptible.

uninspiredcup

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] there's plenty of people who "can't get it to work" when they buy countless games. People only act this nutty over rome because they thought it was the return of their messiah Rome 1. I have loads of criticism for Rome II but I'm not screaming like it's the end times and TW is dead. I'm enjoying the game and reporting my issues back to CA like a good player. wis3boi

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

If developers talk shit, they are in the wrong imo. You seem to forget, the people who play games are not some small sect of elitist pc gamers. Average joe on the street on probably quite naive and willing to give people benfit of the doubt. Alot of people who originally played Rome about a decade back might not have been into pc games for a while.

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] there's plenty of people who "can't get it to work" when they buy countless games. People only act this nutty over rome because they thought it was the return of their messiah Rome 1. I have loads of criticism for Rome II but I'm not screaming like it's the end times and TW is dead. I'm enjoying the game and reporting my issues back to CA like a good player. wis3boi

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

jhonMalcovich

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

Actually to be fair, the battle of Carthage was pre-alpha state. The developer specifically said this and that it was "subject to change". So the arguments (at least with that part of the game) are moot.

Sega also published Aliens: Colonial Marines

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] and sony said ps2 would rival CGI. Anyone who drinks developer koolaid is asking for it.uninspiredcup

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

Actually to be fair, the battle of Carthage was pre-alpha state. The developer specifically said this and that it was "subject to change". So the arguments (at least with that part of the game) are moot.

Pre-alpha state means that when the game is ready, it will look and play better, not worse. 

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Not really. Alot of people can remember the state of Empire fairly clearly. And CA actually did boast that they had a bigger team, bigger budget and a much bigger focus on AI.

jhonMalcovich

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

jhonMalcovich

Actually to be fair, the battle of Carthage was pre-alpha state. The developer specifically said this and that it was "subject to change". So the arguments (at least with that part of the game) are moot.

Pre-alpha state means that when the game is ready, it will look and play better, not worse. 

Regardless, it was an unfinished state and subject to change. They didn't dupe anybody with carthage, they outright said it was unfinished. I'v seen some posters on TWC make out CA are some sort of crooks for showing this, they aren't, it happens alot. Look at halflife or team fortress 2 pre-release. Massively diffrent looking games.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] and sony said ps2 would rival CGI. Anyone who drinks developer koolaid is asking for it.wis3boi

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

you lucked out..my game still doesn't look like it should

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

Yeh. But footages they showed us featured much better graphics and much better AI, better sieges. The question is where is all that now ? We have been duped.

lawlessx

you lucked out..my game still doesn't look like it should

Turn on unlimited video memory.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] I'm seeing the same visuals and roughly the same AI on my enduninspiredcup

you lucked out..my game still doesn't look like it should

Turn on unlimited video memory.

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

you lucked out..my game still doesn't look like it should

wis3boi

Turn on unlimited video memory.

Do you expect better from a company such as Sega? They have failure written all over them.

Yet they're still here. lol

Haven't played COH 2 so I can't comment on that. I've been enjoying Rome II without any issues though I do wish the AI was better.

Unless you're getting a heavy discount, there's no reason to preorder a game. Even then, I wouldn't recommend it. If you only paid $40 instead of $60 for a bad game, are you that much better off? Not even the "free" DLC is ever worth it.

Wait for reviews, wait for demos, wait for gameplay videos, etc. I've seen way too much gamers get suckered into pre-ordering a game only to be disappointed.

It is a little ridiculous right now that two of the biggest strategy games of the year turned out to be duds, and from the same publisher too.

NeonNinja

Well to be fair.. COH2 was developed mostly under THQ. Correct me if I'm wrong. Rome 2. I cannot comment as I've never played it.

And the lawsuit was just in July of this year...

Unless you're getting a heavy discount, there's no reason to preorder a game. Even then, I wouldn't recommend it. If you only paid $40 instead of $60 for a bad game, are you that much better off? Not even the "free" DLC is ever worth it.

Wait for reviews, wait for demos, wait for gameplay videos, etc. I've seen way too much gamers get suckered into pre-ordering a game only to be disappointed.

Cwagmire21

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

It is a little ridiculous right now that two of the biggest strategy games of the year turned out to be duds, and from the same publisher too.

Elann2008

Well to be fair.. COH2 was developed mostly under THQ. Correct me if I'm wrong. Rome 2. I cannot comment as I've never played it.

And the lawsuit was just in July of this year...

The game is rather pricey. $60 for the base game. $99 for the digital collector's edition. "Digital" and "collector" in the same context is like a misnomer. Collectors want physical schwag.

The game is rather pricey. $60 for the base game. $99 for the digital collector's edition. "Digital" and "collector" in the same context is like a misnomer. Collectors want physical schwag.

Falconoffury

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

 

Actually to be fair, the battle of Carthage was pre-alpha state. The developer specifically said this and that it was "subject to change". So the arguments (at least with that part of the game) are moot.

uninspiredcup

Pre-alpha state means that when the game is ready, it will look and play better, not worse. 

Regardless, it was an unfinished state and subject to change. They didn't dupe anybody with carthage, they outright said it was unfinished. I'v seen some posters on TWC make out CA are some sort of crooks for showing this, they aren't, it happens alot. Look at halflife or team fortress 2 pre-release. Massively diffrent looking games.

the dev in the assault on carthage video says himself that it is very pre-alpha, and that the final will look "WAY WAY better than this".... so even the developer himself admits that the game should look better, not WORSE. the fact is, the game looks significantly worse than what was shown in that video. SEGA is starting to get a reputation for showing videos of their games before release that look exceptional, and then when the product actually comes out, it looks nothing like what was advertised....

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

 

Pre-alpha state means that when the game is ready, it will look and play better, not worse. 

Geminon

Regardless, it was an unfinished state and subject to change. They didn't dupe anybody with carthage, they outright said it was unfinished. I'v seen some posters on TWC make out CA are some sort of crooks for showing this, they aren't, it happens alot. Look at halflife or team fortress 2 pre-release. Massively diffrent looking games.

Hey now.. Gearbox screwed up Aliens Colonial Marines.. not SEGA. But the question is.. why the heck did SEGA want to do business with Gearbox is beyond me.

It is a little ridiculous right now that two of the biggest strategy games of the year turned out to be duds, and from the same publisher too.

NeonNinja

[QUOTE="Geminon"][QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

Regardless, it was an unfinished state and subject to change. They didn't dupe anybody with carthage, they outright said it was unfinished. I'v seen some posters on TWC make out CA are some sort of crooks for showing this, they aren't, it happens alot. Look at halflife or team fortress 2 pre-release. Massively diffrent looking games.

Elann2008

Hey now.. Gearbox screwed up Aliens Colonial Marines.. not SEGA. But the question is.. why the heck did SEGA want to do business with Gearbox is beyond me.

I haven't played CoH2 so i can't comment, however I did recently buy rome 2 and I now really regret the purchase and wish I had waited...There is a reason why the forums are flooded with complaints, the game runs terribly, I have enjoyed it somewhat but battles are terribly laggy and on top of that they claimed that only 2% were experiencing performance issues, that says it all really.

I haven't played CoH2 so i can't comment, however I did recently buy rome 2 and I now really regret the purchase and wish I had waited...There is a reason why the forums are flooded with complaints, the game runs terribly, I have enjoyed it somewhat but battles are terribly laggy and on top of that they claimed that only 2% were experiencing performance issues, that says it all really.

sn4k3_64

I pre-ordered two games this year, those games. And I'm very happy with them. Never had any problems with COH2, not its theme nor the optimilzation.

Couldn't play Rome 2 at first, that was fixed in a few days though. Not too bad. Though they should've just postponed the launch and I think they know that. So that was wrong on both CAs and SEGAs side. 

If anything it was Aliens Colonial Marines. :P

skipper847

Yeah, are people forgetting this game or what ? 10.000 times worse than COH2 and Rome2. Sure those games had bugs and glitches and were unoptimized to some degree, but at least you could look past that and find a game. All you found int A:CM was sh1t.

you mean the skins?....

lawlessx

Yes, he means the skin DLC which comes pretty much standard in every big game right now. Don't think it's so bad. Never been tempted to buy them and I'm still having a lot of fun in COH2...

Did anyone actually preorder Rome 2 believing it'd be extremely polished??? biggest_loser

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?620184-Seems-to-be-coding-in-place-for-a-Radial-System

That pretty much explains every problem with R2TW that doesn't have to do with bugs.

RIP Total War, I never expected you to be consolised, but noone is safe from casualisation these days.

Every company is trying to extract money out of its customers. That's just how it works. With CoH2, Sega is doing what most publishers are doing. Make lots of DLC and sell it at high prices. They are probably planning the same for Rome 2. Now Rome 2 I think was just rushed. I don't know if you can fully blame Sega. Most developers are way overconfident on what they can deliver in a time frame. I wouldn't be surprised if Creative Assembly didn't even ask for an extension or more money for development. The difference is that good developers make sure what they have is good and polished, even if they have to cut lots of features at the last minute.

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

[QUOTE="Geminon"]  the dev in the assault on carthage video says himself that it is very pre-alpha, and that the final going will look "WAY WAY better than this".... so even the developer himself admits that the game should look better, not WORSE. the fact is, the game looks significantly worse than what was shown in that video. SEGA is starting to get a reputation for showing videos of their games before release that look exception, and then when the product actually comes out, it looks nothing like what was advertised....Geminon

Hey now.. Gearbox screwed up Aliens Colonial Marines.. not SEGA. But the question is.. why the heck did SEGA want to do business with Gearbox is beyond me.

SEGA knew about the demo that looked gorgeous, but I don't think they were fully aware that Gearbox was going to degrade the graphics and then shift the workload and finishing touches to an inexperienced studio until it was too late.

Gearbox didn't even have the proper mindset to finish development with Duke Nukem Forever.  If you don't know what the fvk you're doing with a legendary IP, just say NO and turn it down.  Let me become vaporware.. because it was already.  But no, Gearbox wants profit.. so lets just continue that sh!t and sell the hell out of it and profit.  BS Sophist attitude.

Should SEGA have just rolled over and cancelled Aliens Colonial Marines during the last phase of development? I think not. I'm sure SEGA has learned their lesson and I am 100% sure they will never do business with Gearbox ever again. Gearbox is a joke and anyone that thinks they are a trustworthy developer is delusional.   If I could undo buying Borderlands 2, I would in a heartbeat.  I would never support a company like that ever again.  And Pitchfork is one of the most repulsive people I've ever seen.

[QUOTE="Geminon"][QUOTE="Elann2008"]

Hey now.. Gearbox screwed up Aliens Colonial Marines.. not SEGA. But the question is.. why the heck did SEGA want to do business with Gearbox is beyond me.

Elann2008

SEGA knew about the demo that looked gorgeous, but I don't think they were fully aware that Gearbox was going to degrade the graphics and then shift the workload and finishing touches to an inexperienced studio until it was too late.

Gearbox didn't even have the proper mindset to finish development with Duke Nukem Forever.  If you don't know what the fvk you're doing with a legendary IP, just say NO and turn it down.  Let me become vaporware.. because it was already.  But no, Gearbox wants profit.. so lets just continue that sh!t and sell the hell out of it and profit.  BS Sophist attitude.

Should SEGA have just rolled over and cancelled Aliens Colonial Marines during the last phase of development? I think not. I'm sure SEGA has learned their lesson and I am 100% sure they will never do business with Gearbox ever again. Gearbox is a joke and anyone that thinks they are a trustworthy developer is delusional.   If I could undo buying Borderlands 2, I would in a heartbeat.  I would never support a company like that ever again.  And Pitchfork is one of the most repulsive people I've ever seen.