Dragon Age Origins is NOT a 'spiritual successor' To Baldur's Gate

Dragon Age: Origins could easily have been the greatest computer role-playing game of recent years. It wouldn't have been too big a task to accomplish to begin with, considering that the days of great computer role-playing games have finished with the turn of the century, since the glorious times of Baldur's Gate II.

Instead of seizing that easy opportunity, however, Bioware decided to lay waste to three years of work in a product that ends up being just another revamped incarnation of their latest console-portable, action-oriented products with flashy visuals and improved sound technology.

All that Bioware needed to do would have been to take notice of what their core public has been writing on their forums and the Internet in general for the past three years. All they needed to do would have been to add a simple turn-based or automatic pause system to the game's battle mechanics. Instead, they decided for yet another product which bases its gameplay on stressful button mashing and player reflexes, like so many other COD's, Resident Evil's, Oblivion's and Turbo Street Fighter VIII's out there. It's a pure action game like those others.

Dragon Age: Origins isn't a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate. It's not even a "spiritual successor" to anything remotely related to the great, fun, intelligent role-playing games of the golden era, which some of us had the privilege of playing ten years ago. It's just another frenetic action game aimed at low-to-average IQ players.

Younger people and players looking for a quick action fix with pretty 3D models might be satisfied with Dragon Age: Origins. Veteran gamers and "serious" role-playing game enthusiasts better go back to what we've been doing in the past ten years: replaying the old top crpgs, or just giving it up on videogame publishers and going back to wooden boards, pens and a piece of paper.

Yes Sir, yes Sir.

Aha...cool story.

We shouldn't play games anymore because they aren't like old ones used to be or because some elitists think that a so called successor isn't the game they loved ages ago, because...d'oh, it isn't.

DA:O is one of the best games released in the past 4 years or more, if you don't want to play a great game, then there's no point in playing all the average ones that we get these days, might be time for a new hobby.

Actually they should have clarified, the PC version is the spiritual successor. All those features that you mentioned missing are in the PC version of the game. It features the pause, and more difficult enemies to force the player to use more strategy. For some reason Bioware decided to go the more action route with the console versions, probably because of interface limitations.

Actually they should have clarified, the PC version is the spiritual successor. All those features that you mentioned missing are in the PC version of the game. It features the pause, and more difficult enemies to force the player to use more strategy. For some reason Bioware decided to go the more action route with the console versions, probably because of interface limitations.

coastermaster

If you don't want a button masher than merely pause the game and plan your strategy after each hit. That's what I do.

DA:O cannot be a spiritual successor to BG series, one of the reason being that most non-dnd gamers don't know what autopausing is.

however, it shouldn't be and need not be either, and precisely because DA:O isn't what Bioware advertised it to be that it can strike a sweet balance between action RPG styIe of combat and cIassical character-driven roleplaying.

compared to BG and cIassical Dnd CRPGs, DA:O's combat lacks tactaical complexity and difficulty, yet it nontheless provides one of, if not THE most addictive RPG experience since BG2.

btw, the true spiritual successor to BG series is NWN2->MotB.

of course it's not... it's just a marketing slogan and those who really buy it need a reality check.

DA:O cannot be a spiritual successor to BG series, one of the reason being that most non-dnd gamers don't know what autopausing is.

however, it shouldn't be and need not be either, and precisely because DA:O isn't what Bioware advertised it to be that it can strike a sweet balance between action RPG styIe of combat and cIassical character-driven roleplaying.

compared to BG and cIassical Dnd CRPGs, DA:O's combat lacks tactaical complexity and difficulty, yet it nontheless provides one of, if not THE most addictive RPG experience since BG2.

btw, the true spiritual successor to BG series is NWN2->MotB.

teardropmina

show some love for BI's IWDs, mate.... the golden age ended with the Infinity Engine.... :(

Dragon Age: Origins could easily have been the greatest computer role-playing game of recent years. It wouldn't have been too big a task to accomplish to begin with, considering that the days of great computer role-playing games have finished with the turn of the century, since the glorious times of Baldur's Gate II.

Instead of seizing that easy opportunity, however, Bioware decided to lay waste to three years of work in a product that ends up being just another revamped incarnation of their latest console-portable, action-oriented products with flashy visuals and improved sound technology.

All that Bioware needed to do would have been to take notice of what their core public has been writing on their forums and the Internet in general for the past three years. All they needed to do would have been to add a simple turn-based or automatic pause system to the game's battle mechanics. Instead, they decided for yet another product which bases its gameplay on stressful button mashing and player reflexes, like so many other COD's, Resident Evil's, Oblivion's and Turbo Street Fighter VIII's out there. It's a pure action game like those others.

Dragon Age: Origins isn't a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate. It's not even a "spiritual successor" to anything remotely related to the great, fun, intelligent role-playing games of the golden era, which some of us had the privilege of playing ten years ago. It's just another frenetic action game aimed at low-to-average IQ players.

Younger people and players looking for a quick action fix with pretty 3D models might be satisfied with Dragon Age: Origins. Veteran gamers and "serious" role-playing game enthusiasts better go back to what we've been doing in the past ten years: replaying the old top crpgs, or just giving it up on videogame publishers and going back to wooden boards, pens and a piece of paper.

Yes Sir, yes Sir.

supamasta

Not only that - it has broken quests, wooden animation, and a battle dynamic that completely ruins what worked in BG II

It does have male on male same sex relationships, vulgarity, and gore though, so it will probably get GOTY from most of the teeny bopper, pop-culture gaming sites.

Don't you just love it when the people at Bioware, and sites like Gamespot try to shove their agendas down your throat?

There is just no pleasing some people...

[QUOTE="supamasta"]

Dragon Age: Origins could easily have been the greatest computer role-playing game of recent years. It wouldn't have been too big a task to accomplish to begin with, considering that the days of great computer role-playing games have finished with the turn of the century, since the glorious times of Baldur's Gate II.

Instead of seizing that easy opportunity, however, Bioware decided to lay waste to three years of work in a product that ends up being just another revamped incarnation of their latest console-portable, action-oriented products with flashy visuals and improved sound technology.

All that Bioware needed to do would have been to take notice of what their core public has been writing on their forums and the Internet in general for the past three years. All they needed to do would have been to add a simple turn-based or automatic pause system to the game's battle mechanics. Instead, they decided for yet another product which bases its gameplay on stressful button mashing and player reflexes, like so many other COD's, Resident Evil's, Oblivion's and Turbo Street Fighter VIII's out there. It's a pure action game like those others.

Dragon Age: Origins isn't a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate. It's not even a "spiritual successor" to anything remotely related to the great, fun, intelligent role-playing games of the golden era, which some of us had the privilege of playing ten years ago. It's just another frenetic action game aimed at low-to-average IQ players.

Younger people and players looking for a quick action fix with pretty 3D models might be satisfied with Dragon Age: Origins. Veteran gamers and "serious" role-playing game enthusiasts better go back to what we've been doing in the past ten years: replaying the old top crpgs, or just giving it up on videogame publishers and going back to wooden boards, pens and a piece of paper.

Yes Sir, yes Sir.

Born_Lucky

Not only that - it has broken quests, wooden animation, and a battle dynamic that completely ruins what worked in BG II

It does have male on male same sex relationships, vulgarity, and gore though, so it will probably get GOTY from most of the teeny bopper, pop-culture gaming sites.

Don't you just love it when the people at Bioware, and sites like Gamespot try to shove their agendas down your throat?

Edit - I also like how you specifically mention "male on male". So tell me, are you one of those guys who thinks gays are disgusting, but finds lesbians hot?

This isn't supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. It is simply an RPG made by the same game company. I personally am having an awesome time playing through this game. The story is engaging and there are so many different possibilities for how to respond to events and how cutscenes play out depending on which characters are in your party. There are six beginnings and several endings to the game and different major decisions throughout. The game play is also very good. You are able to customize your party and characters numerous ways to find a style that suits you. You can also use the pause menu to plan out attacks and spells in the middle of a battle without begin attacked. I have been enjoying every second of this game so far.Vuurk

well.... Bioware said it is. that's the problem there. don't open the can of worms if they can't deliver. it is nowhere as sophisticated as any of the three DnD crpg franchises.

[QUOTE="Vuurk"]This isn't supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. It is simply an RPG made by the same game company. I personally am having an awesome time playing through this game. The story is engaging and there are so many different possibilities for how to respond to events and how cutscenes play out depending on which characters are in your party. There are six beginnings and several endings to the game and different major decisions throughout. The game play is also very good. You are able to customize your party and characters numerous ways to find a style that suits you. You can also use the pause menu to plan out attacks and spells in the middle of a battle without begin attacked. I have been enjoying every second of this game so far.Jinroh_basic

well.... Bioware said it is. that's the problem there. don't open the can of worms if they can't deliver. it is nowhere as sophisticated as any of the three DnD crpg franchises.

i don't hear people complaining about Mass Effect or Jade Empire not being the spiritual successor of BG2. see what i mean? they bluffed and we called it, fair and square. as for the game itself, it's pretty good ( if not abit overhyped ), and i'm not gonna argue with that.

i don't hear people complaining about Mass Effect or Jade Empire not being the spiritual successor of BG2. see what i mean? they bluffed and we called it, fair and square. as for the game itself, it's pretty good ( if not abit overhyped ), and i'm not gonna argue with that.

Jinroh_basic

Hrmm I wonder if this is an indication that in the future, on these forums hating Dragon Age is going to be what all the "cool kids" do, kind of like Oblivion.

Like another guy said, you just cannot please some people.

I think some people mistake the words "spiritual successor" and "successer". I am by far one of the more OLD School RPG Fanatics around, break out most of the old BI games once every year, and also the BG series altho those waters are a bit murky.

To me DA:O is the game NWN was supposed to be (the game who REALLY WAS the successor to BG2, heck it was even said so in the BG2 loading screens).

It suffers from 1 fatal flaw, which is that it does not use the DnD license, it would have been a better game and more fitting if it did.

I do however see the exact same components that made the BG series so good, its a GOOD partybased game, where followers have a great deal of saying and opens up quests, and closes off others (just like in BG). The Combat playies just about the same (as close you can with a different ruleset) only thing that irks me is how "modern" fantasy it is, I swear If you look hard enough I will find Frodo in the gamesomewhere.

it isshorter then BG2, and the Villan in the game is a bit... aticlimatic (mind you so was your brother in BG1).

Looking by the game mechanics and efforts put into the game I can cearly see the influence from BG2 right beneath the surface, even so close to the surface that several dialogue options are mirrored. thus I DO consider it the Spiritual Successor.

Mind you this is the PC version I talk about, since the Console version is more like the successor to NWN2 :s

(Oh and BG2 had so much combat thatit could easily achieved to reach max cap in bg2+exp (mind you the cap was lvl 60, inAD&D that is unthinkable in the first place, so... lots of fighting andonly reason there was no gore was due to the 2d sprites)

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

compared to BG and cIassical Dnd CRPGs, DA:O's combat lacks tactaical complexity and difficulty, yet it nontheless provides one of, if not THE most addictive RPG experience since BG2.

btw, the true spiritual successor to BG series is NWN2->MotB.

Jinroh_basic

show some love for BI's IWDs, mate.... the golden age ended with the Infinity Engine.... :(

L...hey, I did mean that DA:O is more addictive than most of CRPGs released after BG2, IceWind Dale games included. NWN2->MotB is overall better game, and IWDs certainly deliver much more satisfying combat experience; however, the deadly mixture of action RPG styIe of combat/leveling and detailed storytelling and side quest construction... the game is just a time stealing monster. it's like party base Diablo 2 with detailed NPC with characters (not just quest givers).

when I about to fed up with combat, I find many NPC stories to listen to and speak about. and then back on hack n' slashing (with pausing Lo)

and about the spiritual successor thing, we should be used to Bioware/EA's PR trick by now.

I feel like it is. It doesnt have the six limit and is different as it no longer follows D&D as if it were the bible and second coming, but on the higher difficulty settings, you need tactics. If you button mash then you will die. Even on normal you should be pausing quite a bit to ensure you party's survival (I know I had to anyway).

.

Basically combat does require tactics and if you find it to easy your either increase the difficulty or you are playing the console version. The story is actually much more coherent this time around, at least in my opinion. I enjoyed that the main task was more clear and unifying. In BG2 your stopping Janicus or whatever his name was, could often be a very roundabout activity, involving hours upon hours of having to deal with unrelated or very loosely related issues (drows, beholders, thiefs, e.t.c). Its not to say these parts or bad rather that they fit less into the overall narrative then even the dlc for dragon age does.

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Finally auto pause was (at least in my opinoin) and always will be the most ridiculous addition to these games. If youve developed carpal tunnel to the point that you cant press the spacebar when you need to do pause, its time to stop going to sites that ask you if your 18 or not. Micromanaging is basically the name of the game in these RPGs.

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Finally for someone that seems to be older you seem to have the mentality of teen that just discovered alcohol. If you dont like the game fine, construct a clear arguemnt that can be discussed to prove your point, it has grounds for an interesting discussion. On the other hand dont go insulting every person that enjoys the game just because of some incredibly sad elitism on your part..

youre right, its not the spiritual successor

but as an older gamer who has enjoyed all of the classic DnD RPGs, I find Dragon Age better than all of them.

Dragon Age is an improvement; we love those old RPGs because of the story, dialogue, and character interaction. Dragon Age has everything those old RPGs have, and more.

I can only smile and shake my head at people like you TC.Im_single

The more and more i see people talking about dragon age not being a spiritual successor, the more i believe they don't even know what a spiritual successor means.

It means the game follow roughly the same formula, no it's not DnD, it's not the same game but the core elements of what made BG2 are present therefore making it a spiritual successor. Fallout is a spiritual successor to Wasteland, it's not the same game, but the formula is the same. Before you spew garbage, go look up the definition of what spiritual successor mean.

-Party based tactical combat? Check

-Rich and immersive world? Check

-Developped companions? Check

-Freedom of progression? Check

-Darker fantasy setting? Check

-Pause button? Check

-Character customization? Check

-Good difficulty and optional hard fights? Check

-Low loot setting? Check

-Powerful magic? Check

-Lengty RPG? Check

-Meaningful choices that impact the world? Check

Has all the core game element from BG2 to me, therefore is a spiritual successor to Baldur's gate. It's the closest game your gonna get from the old infinity engine ones, i seriously don't see what else is needed to please people calling themselve ''hardcore crpg players''. I own almost all the infinity engine games, played them all, loved them all, but dragon age elements are most definitely pulled out of those games despite being release in 2009.

Auto-pause? Really? I never used it outside enemy spotted or low health in the old infinity engine and with the tactics system implemented in dragon age, you don't really need to have this anymore. Minor features didn't make the cut, tough luck.

If people consider Bioshock to be a successor to System Shock, then DA:O is at least twice as much a spiritual successor to Baulder's gate. Everything in Baulder's gate that mattered is in DA:O, with the possible exception of Minsc and Boo.

Personally, I don't care if it's the "spiritual successor" or not -- it's a good game (not great) and it's certainly A LOT better than the big-named, overly-hyped garbage that's been getting passed off as RPGs these past few years. I think it's Bioware's best game since BG2 but, in the spirit of full disclosure, I've pretty much thought everything they've done since BG2 has been fairly mediocre and forgettable (at best).

Anyhow, I'm enjoying the game and it's better than I expected. Although, I did turn have to turn off the persistent blood thing because I thought it was ridiculous and added nothing (well, except maybe some console appeal) to the game.

If people consider Bioshock to be a successor to System Shock, then DA:O is at least twice as much a spiritual successor to Baulder's gate. Everything in Baulder's gate that mattered is in DA:O, with the possible exception of Minsc and Boo.

dos4gw82

Mmmmm....DA is a very good game,but I already knew that it would be more similar to the latest Bioware games rather than BG2.

I expected a bit more depth,but as it is,it´s certainly the best fantasy RPG since,say,NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer.

Personally, I don't care if it's the "spiritual successor" or not -- it's a good game (not great) and it's certainly A LOT better than the big-named, overly-hyped garbage that's been getting passed off as RPGs these past few years. I think it's Bioware's best game since BG2 but, in the spirit of full disclosure, I've pretty much thought everything they've done since BG2 has been fairly mediocre and forgettable (at best).

Anyhow, I'm enjoying the game and it's better than I expected. Although, I did turn have to turn off the persistent blood thing because I thought it was ridiculous and added nothing (well, except maybe some console appeal) to the game.

-wildflower-

Before I rant, I thought the game was great, but...

I was disappointed because I was hoping it would improve on Baldur's Gate II and live up to the title of its spiritual successor. Instead, we got a fairly linear game that didn't seem to live up to Baldur's Gate II. There were side quests but none were particularly engaging and I only did them for the experience.

Where were the character strongholds? The optional dungeons? The intricate class system? Countless magical items?

In Baldur's Gate II there are several optional dungeons which are unique and interesting. There were none in Dragon Age Origins outside of DLCs, and seen as my router doesn't work with my playstation I can't play.

The weapons system was a bit of a let-down too. I'm aware some people will probably hate it but I love the specific weapon specialization in Baldur's Gate, you have different weapons for your different characters and if you find a +4 axe that is better than your +3 long sword then it's just unfortunate you don't have a character who uses an axe.

Also, 80+ hours? What the hell? I managed 56 on casual and I did almost all the side-quests. Does that include the DLC?

Still, it was a good game and I acknowledge some areas of gameplay were improved, however I feel that Dragon Age Origins may fall into obscurity in coming years whilst Baldur's Gate II is a timeless classic.

[QUOTE="dos4gw82"]

If people consider Bioshock to be a successor to System Shock, then DA:O is at least twice as much a spiritual successor to Baulder's gate. Everything in Baulder's gate that mattered is in DA:O, with the possible exception of Minsc and Boo.

Alaris83

I am an older veteran gamer who LOVES Dragon Age. Baldurs Gate is also one of my favorite series of all time... so your point is kinda meh to me.

Dragon Age is awesome and so is Baldurs Gate. One of the best rpgs since Baldurs Gate2 imo, Dragon Age is much better then I expected it to be.

Awesome story, TONS of sidequests if you hunt THEM ALL DOWN, awesome characters, fantastic voice acting, Good combat and its fun as hell to play.

[QUOTE="Alaris83"][QUOTE="dos4gw82"]

If people consider Bioshock to be a successor to System Shock, then DA:O is at least twice as much a spiritual successor to Baulder's gate. Everything in Baulder's gate that mattered is in DA:O, with the possible exception of Minsc and Boo.

Skacore_Al

yeah, I have mentioned this before somewhere in all the DA:O threads; there are Bioware's conversation with BG gamers on loading screens.

"if all things fail, go for the eyes!" is the one for Minsc and Boo specifically.

Its better than Baldurs Gate.Birdy09

Dragon Age: Origins could easily have been the greatest computer role-playing game of recent years. It wouldn't have been too big a task to accomplish to begin with, considering that the days of great computer role-playing games have finished with the turn of the century, since the glorious times of Baldur's Gate II.

Instead of seizing that easy opportunity, however, Bioware decided to lay waste to three years of work in a product that ends up being just another revamped incarnation of their latest console-portable, action-oriented products with flashy visuals and improved sound technology.

All that Bioware needed to do would have been to take notice of what their core public has been writing on their forums and the Internet in general for the past three years. All they needed to do would have been to add a simple turn-based or automatic pause system to the game's battle mechanics. Instead, they decided for yet another product which bases its gameplay on stressful button mashing and player reflexes, like so many other COD's, Resident Evil's, Oblivion's and Turbo Street Fighter VIII's out there. It's a pure action game like those others.

Dragon Age: Origins isn't a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate. It's not even a "spiritual successor" to anything remotely related to the great, fun, intelligent role-playing games of the golden era, which some of us had the privilege of playing ten years ago. It's just another frenetic action game aimed at low-to-average IQ players.

Younger people and players looking for a quick action fix with pretty 3D models might be satisfied with Dragon Age: Origins. Veteran gamers and "serious" role-playing game enthusiasts better go back to what we've been doing in the past ten years: replaying the old top crpgs, or just giving it up on videogame publishers and going back to wooden boards, pens and a piece of paper.

Yes Sir, yes Sir.

supamasta

I have to disagree, while I understand what you are saying I really don't see it as an action game. It is real time but you can pause the action at any time and issue orders. As an old school player of those old Bioware and Black Isle games, one thing that infuriated me was the fact that if you issued a command it would sometimes take several moments to execute. You were always left guessing how long a particular action would take. I remember hoping and praying that my action would be executed in time.

I will say one thing that bothers me about DA is that rather shallow character development options...limited number of stats, abilities, feats, etc. It's all very simplified and while that is great for allowing the masses to appreciate this game, it make me question how long I will be playing it. Bioware made it clear that they didn't want to create a DnD ruleset clone, they wanted to make it more accessible and that story and characters would be what defines DA. That's all fine and good but that means they better keep creating content (as promised), which they failed to deliver in ME. It also means the modding community is going to have to take off and support the game in the same way they did for NWN.

If people consider Bioshock to be a successor to System Shock, then DA:O is at least twice as much a spiritual successor to Baulder's gate. Everything in Baulder's gate that mattered is in DA:O, with the possible exception of Minsc and Boo.

dos4gw82

With the feedback I've observed from users with Dragons Age - it's looking to have high expectations from me, lol...

DA:O cannot be a spiritual successor to BG series, one of the reason being that most non-dnd gamers don't know what autopausing is.

however, it shouldn't be and need not be either, and precisely because DA:O isn't what Bioware advertised it to be that it can strike a sweet balance between action RPG styIe of combat and cIassical character-driven roleplaying.

compared to BG and cIassical Dnd CRPGs, DA:O's combat lacks tactaical complexity and difficulty, yet it nontheless provides one of, if not THE most addictive RPG experience since BG2.

btw, the true spiritual successor to BG series is NWN2->MotB.

teardropmina

Completely agree with you there. Mask of the Betrayer was one of the best games this decade.