Dropping standards?

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jomicbro

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#1 jomicbro
Member since 2003 • 64 Posts

So I started playing NFS Undercover today and was shocked at how bad the graphics are. The same thing happened last week when I tried playing Quantum of Solace (it DOES NOT look as good as COD4!). Both of these games are ranked in the 7's in the PC section here at gamespot (generally my yardstick as to whether I should buy or not), but these games are obviously being graded on a console curve, meaning that the reviewers are being much more lenient in their scores and are not considering that on the PC, these games look like a puked up furball. Is this ok? I mean, I realize that the current generation of console hardware is ageing a lot faster than most PC hardware, but is that a good reason for the acceptance of a lower level of graphic realism, on top of which, is it ok for the reviewers (gamespot and amateur alike) to ignore the lack of options for fine tuning graphics in PC versions in games like Dead Space (which in all honesty I thought looked great but still didn't offer much to play with) and NFS Undercover?

I guess what I'm saying here is: Gamespot reviewers - stop rehashing your reviews of console versions and do up some legitimate reviews for the PC with the PC crowd in mind. Games should be rated lower on the PC if they don't live up to modern gaming PC standards (ie Far Cry 2 and Crysis). The fact that most games are designed primarily for consoles doesn't mean that they have to be exactly the same at a technical level (Fallout 3 is a good example of a game that offers lots of fine tuning options despite being designed for multiple platforms).

 

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Elann2008

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#2 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

PC versions will continue to be dumbed down by the console versions. Dead Space, Fallout 3, Far Cry 2, it's all evident.

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biggest_loser

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#3 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts

I don't think thats fair: One of the main ways they do differentiate their reviews for the console/pc counterpart is to write a few paragraphs on the graphical enhancements or lack of.

You have to take into consideration that the score is obviously not just based around the visuals. 

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Jinroh_basic

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#4 Jinroh_basic
Member since 2002 • 6413 Posts
you should change your title to "dropping visual standard", since that seems to be the only thing you have problem with.
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jomicbro

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#5 jomicbro
Member since 2003 • 64 Posts
Yeah I guess. It really sucks though doesn't it. I've been gaming the PC since before consoles existed. I've used both for gaming, but consoles have always sucked from a technical standpoint. Even when the 360 was first released, games that were released for both platforms always looked better on the PC. These days I can't play on a console at all, the blurry textures and jagged lines make my eyes water (damn, PC gamers are a high-falutin snobby bunch of people, aren't we ;))
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Elann2008

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#6 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

Yeah I guess. It really sucks though doesn't it. I've been gaming the PC since before consoles existed. I've used both for gaming, but consoles have always sucked from a technical standpoint. Even when the 360 was first released, games that were released for both platforms always looked better on the PC. These days I can't play on a console at all, the blurry textures and jagged lines make my eyes water (damn, PC gamers are a high-falutin snobby bunch of people, aren't we ;))jomicbro

I know I am. :P

< Graphics junkie.

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JReefer1

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#7 JReefer1
Member since 2004 • 898 Posts
PC versions will always come out on top.
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jomicbro

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#8 jomicbro
Member since 2003 • 64 Posts

Good point (to Jinroh-basic).

Actually, I guess I should have included my gripe about current gameplay trends too. Far Cry 2 - Great game visually and fun by times, but the gameplay sure is lacking from my point of view. I don't know, I guess console gamers have different concepts of what makes a good game overall. It just strikes as odd that games are being released now to favourable reviews, when they would have been bashed five or six years ago. It does seem to me that there is a general lowering of standards when it comes to games in general.

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jomicbro

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#9 jomicbro
Member since 2003 • 64 Posts

"I don't think thats fair: One of the main ways they do differentiate their reviews for the console/pc counterpart is to write a few paragraphs on the graphical enhancements or lack of.

You have to take into consideration that the score is obviously not just based around the visuals."

I realize this and I am aware that there is usually some soft of blurb regarding the PC version in the review, but that hasn't really been happening lately (the Fallout 3 review only stated that the PC version "looked the best"). Where's the love for the PC crowd?

I also realize that scores are not based on visuals alone, but when there is a stark contrast between the platforms, or when there SHOULD be a stark contrast between the platforms (the PC version of NFS Undercover looks about the same as the 360 version from my perspective) shouldn't it be noted and the score adjusted to reflect that point?

Also, correct me if I am wrong, what is a video game without the graphics? I would argue that the visuals are the most important part of the video game equation and that the scores should reflect the differences (good and bad) between the platforms.

 

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biggest_loser

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#10 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts

"I don't think thats fair: One of the main ways they do differentiate their reviews for the console/pc counterpart is to write a few paragraphs on the graphical enhancements or lack of.

You have to take into consideration that the score is obviously not just based around the visuals."

I realize this and I am aware that there is usually some soft of blurb regarding the PC version in the review, but that hasn't really been happening lately (the Fallout 3 review only stated that the PC version "looked the best"). Where's the love for the PC crowd?

I also realize that scores are not based on visuals alone, but when there is a stark contrast between the platforms, or when there SHOULD be a stark contrast between the platforms (the PC version of NFS Undercover looks about the same as the 360 version from my perspective) shouldn't it be noted and the score adjusted to reflect that point?

Also, correct me if I am wrong, what is a video game without the graphics? I would argue that the visuals are the most important part of the video game equation and that the scores should reflect the differences (good and bad) between the platforms.

 

jomicbro

Read the review again. The final paragraphs 3-4. There's heaps of stuff on the look of the game. 

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jomicbro

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#11 jomicbro
Member since 2003 • 64 Posts

Read the review again. The final paragraphs 3-4. There's heaps of stuff on the look of the game. 

You're missing the point. The PC version looks so much better than the others that I think that warrants a special mention in the 'PC' review. Also, the options to fine-tune the visuals in the PC version offer a much broader range than the visuals you are stuck with in the 360 and PS3 versions (a feature that isn't always offered in titles designed for multiple platform).The article does mention how good the game looks, but it doesn't offer any information on how much better it looks on the PC; information that might help some people decide on which version to buy. Anyway, Fallout 3 is a good example of games going forward, both from a visual standpoint and sound, gameplay, etc.

My point with this post is that a lot of reviews, like the one for NFS Undercover, end in higher rating than I think they should, because from my view, and it's just my view, they are visually ugly on the PC when compared with other recent titles. The old norm was that consoles version looked like they should, but the PC version usually offered some sort of option for graphical tweaking which resulted in a better game (this also used to get mentioned in game reviews regarding PC versions) which often resulted in the reviewer touting the PC version as the best. This seems to be disappearing, along with other general acceptances of lower standards when it comes to game design, as game designers become more console-centered. This might be ok with console owners as they have no choice as to how their game is going to look, but for PC owners who expect a certain level of control over how their games look, it would be nice to see a real PC version review of games that are developed for multiple platforms. The review of Bully is a good example, but if the PC version had come out at the same time I doubt we would have seen a review as detailed.

Anyway, I'm digressing from the original point of the post...games on the PC are not as visually tight  as they could be and it seems like most people, reviewers included, are willing to accept this and not comment on it, because games are "made for consoles afterall."

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teardropmina

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#12 teardropmina
Member since 2006 • 2806 Posts

I would argue that the visuals are the most important part of the video game equatio...

jomicbro

you can argue all you want... King's Bounty: The Legend has graphic of last century compared to that of Crysis, but I consider KB:TL a better game.

also, PC game reviews aren't to be taken seriously to begin with when they are from a website that ranks Oblivion higher than Torment, BGs, Fallouts and etc.

 

 

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biggest_loser

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#13 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts

also, PC game reviews aren't to be taken seriously to begin with when they are from a website that ranks Oblivion higher than Torment, BGs, Fallouts and etc.

teardropmina

Its personal opinion and you have to take into account that the reviews were written by different people at different times, with massive leaps in technology. 

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teardropmina

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#14 teardropmina
Member since 2006 • 2806 Posts
[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

also, PC game reviews aren't to be taken seriously to begin with when they are from a website that ranks Oblivion higher than Torment, BGs, Fallouts and etc.

biggest_loser

Its personal opinion and you have to take into account that the reviews were written by different people at different times, with massive leaps in technology. 

yes review is alos personal opinion and so can easily disregarded not because it was posed as "professional" review. 

it's of my opinion that the leaps of technology in Oblvion gives the game no advantage whatsovever over the games I mentioned. my opinion differs from yours and that of GS reviewers.and it's of my opinion that anyone rates Oblvion over Torment and so on, his/her opinion on gaming can pretty be dismissed all otegether. 

 

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RobertBowen

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#15 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

Also, correct me if I am wrong, what is a video game without the graphics? I would argue that the visuals are the most important part of the video game equation and that the scores should reflect the differences (good and bad) between the platforms.

jomicbro

How good the graphics are is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone will have their own standards for what is visually acceptable.  When it comes to how graphics can be tweaked on PC, why on earth should that colour a review score, when practically every PC game allows you to do that?  It's so common as to not be worthy of note.  Also, I disagree that a video game is 'nothing' without good graphics, as you seem to imply.  There is a wealth of old titles in my collection that I still play, in spite of the dated graphics.  Some look pretty bad now, but they still have excellent gameplay, and are therefore still very enjoyable.

I play games for fun and entertainment, and I would even counter your arguments that some of the best looking games released in recent years also have sub-par gameplay, story-telling and characterisation.  Why?  Because the devs know that whizz-bang graphics sell games, no matter how bad they are.  If anything, the high focus on quality graphics has led to less effort in other areas of making a game.  I will take high quality gameplay over high quality graphics any day of the week, because that is what gives a game longevity.  You may be wowed by the graphics of a game for the first twenty minutes, but in the end it all just becomes background noise as you concentrate on what you are supposed to be doing.  I'm not saying that a game can look like absolute crap these days and still be enjoyable - obviously the world of graphics has advanced and we all expect a certain standard from modern games.  However, saying that one game sucks just because it has some blurry textures or something is disingenuous if that game has better gameplay than another game that is graphically superior.

If you judge every game based primarily on graphics, and expect reviewers to do that same, then I feel sorry for you.

When it comes to 'love for the PC crowd', honestly I think you need to wake up a bit.  Consoles are now the lead platform for many AAA games, and will continue to be the lead platform until the next 'next-gen' console hits the market.   Why?  Because it's easier for devs to develop and test on static hardware, and they see huge amounts of sales for the console version of a game over the PC version of a game.  Many devs will tell you straight that developing a PC only title focusing on PC gameplay is simply not financially viable because of the huge development costs.  Yes, there will still be some PC exclusive developers, but they are becoming a rare breed, and many seem to be new (or relatively unknown) development houses, so the quality can vary greatly in respect to both graphics AND gameplay.  It sucks, I know, but the PC platform is no longer 'top dog' in the eyes of publishing houses.

Just look at Activision - they recently cut some studios because they wouldn't be able to pump out sequel after sequel every year to milk a franchise bone dry.  They should have learned the lesson from EA that pumping out the same game in new clothes every year just leads to mediocre garbage being spewed out on a production line, and the death of creativity.  But there you have it - it's all about money at the expense of creativity.  And if you're one of the guys on that production line, trying to meet ever more demanding deadlines, is it any wonder that the quality of whatever you are doing is going to suffer?

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hedgehogenstein

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#16 hedgehogenstein
Member since 2008 • 91 Posts

So I started playing NFS Undercover today and was shocked at how bad the graphics are. The same thing happened last week when I tried playing Quantum of Solace (it DOES NOT look as good as COD4!). Both of these games are ranked in the 7's in the PC section here at gamespot (generally my yardstick as to whether I should buy or not), but these games are obviously being graded on a console curvejomicbro

GameSpot leans towards sensationalism. Mediocre games are good, good games are awesome, awesome games are spectacular. That is the state of the gaming industry right now, either negative sensationalism (Yahtzee, etc) or positive sensationalism (GameSpot and co.) and that's really it. The truth is, people don't want to hear that games are okay, that games are pretty good. Everyone stands under a banner today, with lines drawn and loyalties clearly defined. A game is awesome or a game sucks.

I guess what I'm saying here is: Gamespot reviewers - stop rehashing your reviews of console versions and do up some legitimate reviews for the PC with the PC crowd in mind. Games should be rated lower on the PC if they don't live up to modern gaming PC standardsjomicbro

Problem with that is that people will misinterpret the different scores as meaning the console version is better. The last thing I think PC gamers want now in and amongst all the (bogus) PC gaming is dying nonsense is for a major reviewing outlet that is already console oriented to become even more console oriented by judging PC games on a harsher scale.

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ReddestSkies

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#17 ReddestSkies
Member since 2005 • 4087 Posts

When it comes to 'love for the PC crowd', honestly I think you need to wake up a bit. Consoles are now the lead platform for many AAA games, and will continue to be the lead platform until the next 'next-gen' console hits the market. Why? Because it's easier for devs to develop and test on static hardware, and they see huge amounts of sales for the console version of a game over the PC version of a game. Many devs will tell you straight that developing a PC only title focusing on PC gameplay is simply not financially viable because of the huge development costs. Yes, there will still be some PC exclusive developers, but they are becoming a rare breed, and many seem to be new (or relatively unknown) development houses, so the quality can vary greatly in respect to both graphics AND gameplay. It sucks, I know, but the PC platform is no longer 'top dog' in the eyes of publishing houses.

RobertBowen

You're wrong. Not just "oh, you're exaggerating". Nope. That paragraph is 100% wrong.

1. It's easier and cheaper to develop for PC. No royalty fees, no need to program for uber complex processors like the PS3's, no "quality control" (Sony is evil btw), etc. Yes, console hardware is standardized, but it's not necessarily easier to develop for, from a programming standpoint, because of how unorthodox the 360 and PS3 are.

2. PC exclusive developers are not a "rare breed", and will never be. A lot of PC games have always been ported to consoles, the only difference now is that developers who would otherwise port their games are now going for parallel development, which does suck, but has nothing to do with the amount of exclusive games that we get.

PC gaming has never been the priority of Activision, Ubisoft and other big publishers. EA is the only exception to that rule, and I think that PC gaming is still its main money-maker (or at least, it's very close to being that). Lately, CAPCOM started porting its games to the PC, thing that it had never done in its 20something years in gaming. The thing is that big publishers just don't make exclusive games anymore (and when they do, they are PC exclusives like Spore).