Games Have Become Something Beyond Games?

*Please don't post here unless you have played MMOs, and please don't post unless you feel qualified to be a "veteran" in any MMOs.*

One Thousand Game Hours...that's a milestone. I've reached that level in probably two (or three at the most) MMOs combined, however the most I've played one is probably 500 hours or possibly more.

Now that isn't a lot. I wish I would have stuck with WoW longer and gotten further, and I wish I would have kept my Vanguard account open for a 9 month period in which I had it closed.

I just completed a tough quest (group quest, what else?) in Vanguard and probably spent around 5 hours on it. I feel like I've achieved some kind of zen mastery that nobody in the real world will ever appreciate.

And I had so much fun and can't wait to do it all over again.

Is this a first in history, when people spend literally 2 or 3 thousand hours on one game?? Imagine playing checkers, or chess, or any single player video/computer game that much. Perhaps with the card game Bridge it would be possible...or poker if you were a big gambler, but even then I imagine the hours would be more spread out over a longer period of time.

I'm on E-Harmony, and it asks about "hobbies"...I'm wondering if I should write "Vanguard", but who would understand?

Anyway, since MMOs are a new "thing", say, perhaps in the last 10 years, and the "hardcore" MMO players are still kind of pioneers in a liberal sense of the word, does anyone else feel that getting epic gear or any other MMO achievement ought to merit a place on a resume as a testament to a person's dedication and work ethic?

Maybe not that far...and I suppose the personal satisfaction a person gets from playing a good MMO for thousands of hours is a reward in itself.

At any rate, I'm rambling: Here's a topic for discussion: There are "Casual" gamers, and "hardcore" gamers...which when the terms are used broadly I think they mean a person who might play a couple of times a week versus a person who plays every night. But do the class of us who are pathologically addicted or obssessed with an MMO deserve a special label? Or is it more common for people to be spending thousands of hours on an MMO than I realize?

I played EverQuest for over six thousand hours over the space of two and a half years. I was a member of a high-end raiding guild and we killed boss monsters and Gods and it was glorious.

There were about four major guilds on my sever, each with between 40 and 70 members. I imagine at least three quarters of them played as much as - or more than - I did. I don't have exact figures, but I believe that the four major guilds accounted for about 10% of the population during the timezone in which we played. But super-obsessive hardcore play is certainly not limited to high end raiders. Anyway, the point I am getting at is that super-obsessive play, those who put in between six and twelve hours per day every day, is just not uncommon - at least not in EverQuest. But certainly they don't account for anywhere near the majority of players. 10% is a significant percentage, though.

I don't know what other MMOs are like - but while games may change, people do not. I can imagine all MMOs having significant super-hardcore playerbases ranging up to or even over ten percent of the server population.

I know what it feels like to spend a long time grinding out a quest or sitting a camp (I once camped a nine hour spawn in EQ for some book) and the - I suppose it can be legitimately considered an emotional release - feeling can be profound. I once looted a super rare item from a boss and my arms were literally shaking. It was a once in a lifetime thing - something people don't often consider is that while the game itself may be entirely virtual, it's inhabited entirely by real people, and their feelings are real. People talk about being emotionally affected by a work of literature or art, but those same people would probably scoff at the idea of being moved by a computer game.

As for sticking this sort of stuff on your resumé/CV - no. It's not that they aren't noteworthy achievements (being able to sit quietly while focusing on mindnumbing issues obviously has appeal for employers) but the world just isn't ready for it. Computer games are still, in most of the world, not taken seriously - and while the mean age of the computer game player may be approaching 24, games are still viewed largely as something for children by the general population. This opinion is changing though. Today's twenty-something gamers are tomorrow's OAP's, and those people who grew up with games - and perhaps still play - will have a much different opinion to the 40+ demographic of today which largely knows little to nothing of computer games or of their cultural relevance.

As for a more specific label - i'm happy with hardcore, but I sometimes prefix it with super-.

LMAO! You have played over 1,000 hours of MMO's and you have an eHarmony account? No offence but that is a recipe for a hermit.error11

Don't make the assumption that eHarmony is for hermits...I've met a lot of women that way, and have friends who are now married because of it.

I wouldn't want to give you numbers of the time I played, and in the time constraint, since you would all feel very casuals suddenly! :P As to putting Vanguard on E-Harmony...what about putting something like: Roleplaying games or computer games; whichever YOU prefer(both are true). See, you have to put yourself on the other persons shoes. Most peoples don't know what Vanguard is, as a game. So if you write Vanguard, they may wonder if it is diving, or some new type of extreme sport!

I would prefer to say that I spend OVER a year online in EQ and that isn't the MMO I play the most (in 2-3 years of real time period), than I spent this time playing Pac Man. Games are as important as you wish to make them, but never forget, even if something is important to you, it may be unknown to many peoples! So, always try to put yourself in other peoples shoes when you are talking of topics which they may ignore.

See, if I talk to you, I can say I don't like EQ or Vanguard because in these games raiding is more worthy and rewarding than grouping (nonsense). You would understand my point even if you would possibly want to argue with me (as if tastes could be argued, silly really). But if I would have to explain, at some peoples that is alien to games in general, why I don't play Vanguard or EQ, I would just say that I don't like the game; they don't need to know I like to group/solo and hate raiding with a passion. But to someone who actually know what EQ or Vanguard is, I wouldn't say I hate EQ or Vanguard, or that I dislike them, because it wouldn't be precise enough, I would have to pinpoint that raiding is why I don't play these games which, otherwise would be a lot more to my tastes.

Btw, is E-Harmony a good service? Or is it the same gals as on the other place with just a different front page?

LMAO! You have played over 1,000 hours of MMO's and you have an eHarmony account? No offence but that is a recipe for a hermit.error11

Its a hobby, folks, lets not turn it into something more than it really is.

So you logged 1000 hours; you should be proud of that on a personal level, but move on. You dont hear stamp collectors saying "Oh I got 1000 pages of stamps" do you?

Im not trying to be cynical, just truthful.

does anyone else feel that getting epic gear or any other MMO achievement ought to merit a place on a resume as a testament to a person's dedication and work ethic?Stowik

It would be a dangerous thing to put on a resume, since the "work ethic" claim is certainly not universally accepted and it could easily be interpreted as a total lack of logical priorities.

[QUOTE="Stowik"]does anyone else feel that getting epic gear or any other MMO achievement ought to merit a place on a resume as a testament to a person's dedication and work ethic?Cobra_nVidia

It would be a dangerous thing to put on a resume, since the "work ethic" claim is certainly not universally accepted and it could easily be interpreted as a total lack of logical priorities.

Unfortunately true. I wish putting "Lvl 70 Mage" on a job application could get you hired :)

"Hmmmm Joe here has a level 70 Rogue while Steve here has a priest of an equal level. I guess we'll have to give the job to Steve since he's obviously a team player."Alaris83

lol

Btw, is E-Harmony a good service? Or is it the same gals as on the other place with just a different front page?

Anofalye

My only experience is with Eharmony, but I know people who have tried a number of different ones they unanimously agreed that Eharmony was the best.

Is this a first in history, when people spend literally 2 or 3 thousand hours on one game?? Imagine playing checkers, or chess, or any single player video/computer game that much. Perhaps with the card game Bridge it would be possible...or poker if you were a big gambler, but even then I imagine the hours would be more spread out over a longer period of time.

Stowik

I think professional Chess players would just laugh at your 1000 hours even if it was ten times that much. Those guys have generally clocked up in excess of 50000 hours of play before they even get to Grand Master level let alone the hours they spend playing after they get there

I've played a MMO's a bit, and I normally dismiss people saying games are bad and whatnot, however, when I meet people IRL who are total MMO addict, I actually think outlawing them could be justified.
The things it does to people, even to me, it's just bad.

And the worst part is, they're generally pretty boring.
MMORPG's, to me, are games for people with far too much time and no effort left in them to try other games.

No offense to the OP, but from his post I really get the feeling like he wants some sort of reward for spending countless hours on a videogame.
Newsflash dude, it's a videogame. It's called entertainment. I've never seen anyone get rewarded for watching movies or listening to music, unless he's a reviewer.

If I received a hundred bucks now for every game that I've ever played in the past, damn I'd be rich. But the object of gaming isn't to further your life, it's to relax.
And that's, I guess, the main thing I hate about MMO's. They aren't meant for relaxation.

You want a reward for playing videogames? Try applying at Gamespot.
End of story.

You want to feel special because you play a lot of games? Well, just tell everyone you meet about your collection of level 70 characters, you'll feel special alright, but not in a good way, I think.

I play games maybe 3 hours a day, Mostly shooters. I love games, but I don't take it out of context, am I proud of some things I've accomplished in video games? A resounding yes, being rank 1 in a popular server in Day of Defeat for 3 consecutive days was a shining moment and a testament to my awesomeness, and something I could tell to people who don't even know that game and impress them. MMO's on the other hand...well for example

"I just got epic armor in WoW, isn't that just uber leet dad?"...isn't exactly the way you want a conversation to start, and most likely end.

On the other hand:

"Nobody on the server can compare to my incredible aim! I am consistently MVP"...doesn't sound great, but atleast its better

Games are entertainment, they are something YOU should enjoy, and occasionally there is something that you actually pulled off that could impress people. But for the most part, just have fun. If you aren't having fun with entertainment, you are wasting time

[QUOTE="Stowik"]

Is this a first in history, when people spend literally 2 or 3 thousand hours on one game?? Imagine playing checkers, or chess, or any single player video/computer game that much. Perhaps with the card game Bridge it would be possible...or poker if you were a big gambler, but even then I imagine the hours would be more spread out over a longer period of time.

N3xus9

I think professional Chess players would just laugh at your 1000 hours even if it was ten times that much. Those guys have generally clocked up in excess of 50000 hours of play before they even get to Grand Master level let alone the hours they spend playing after they get there

365 days X 10 hours = 3650 hours.

50 000 hours /3650 = Over 13 years playing an average of 10 hours a day.

I wouldn't say they play anymore, or anyless, than real "hardcore MMO players". You have to consider that in both case, these players think about the game most of the time they are not in it, and they also dream about the game.

Obviously, no MMO has been around for 13 years yet, and it is more strenous to stand in front of the computer than in front of a chessboard.

Chess has been around longer, the gameplay is more logical, the challenge is higher...and the progression is extremely thin, nearly unexistant...you don't have stats, gears, levels or whatever to constantly feedback your progressions, you can only judge by facing other peoples, but that isn't a fair assetment as the quality of the other players vary a LOT.

In both case we have a compulsive behavior, and in both case, it is a lot better that these peoples "play".

Online chess are also crippled from truely emerging, as there is a big group of peoples which just run another chess program and you actually play against that chess program, which completely remove the interest of a scoring system...if just after about 5% of the best players, almost every other peoples in this next 10% is "cheating" by letting a program play for them, it actually hurt (never destroy), the developpment of online playing...obviously better chess programs hurt it more.

I've played a MMO's a bit, and I normally dismiss people saying games are bad and whatnot, however, when I meet people IRL who are total MMO addict, I actually think outlawing them could be justified.
The things it does to people, even to me, it's just bad.

ShotGunBunny

As much as I loved my time in EQ, I agree. Check this out:

Wow, that's awesome, mfsa. You should have posted that in your thread about the health of gamers.

do you really owe that solely to quitting MMOs mfsa? Im just curious.

And thats very inspiring, Im losing weight but just not fast enough lol.

do you really owe that solely to quitting MMOs mfsa? Im just curious.

And thats very inspiring, Im losing weight but just not fast enough lol.

mrbojangles25

It was the whole lifestyle that went with MMOs - the long periods of sitting, the constant snacking. I don't blame MMOs or anything, it's all my own fault... but I can say with almost absolute certainty that I wouldn't have gotten so fat if it hadn't been for EverQuest.

Now that I've experienced it, I feel like I could play an MMO - even play hardcore, and not put on weight again. So I guess not entirely, it's our state of mind that lets things like that happen - but it was playing an MMO that let me fall into that state of mind.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

do you really owe that solely to quitting MMOs mfsa? Im just curious.

And thats very inspiring, Im losing weight but just not fast enough lol.

mfsa

It was the whole lifestyle that went with MMOs - the long periods of sitting, the constant snacking. I don't blame MMOs or anything, it's all my own fault... but I can say with almost absolute certainty that I wouldn't have gotten so fat if it hadn't been for EverQuest.

Now that I've experienced it, I feel like I could play an MMO - even play hardcore, and not put on weight again. So I guess not entirely, it's our state of mind that lets things like that happen - but it was playing an MMO that let me fall into that state of mind.

ya I would be lying if I said I wouldnt touch an MMO when I lose all my weight.

Still, I cant wait for the day to come. I want to stand in line for the fourth WoW expansion at midnight, be the only fit guy there, and just see who I used to be. Hell maybe I can do that for the 2nd expansion lol

[QUOTE="error11"]LMAO! You have played over 1,000 hours of MMO's and you have an eHarmony account? No offence but that is a recipe for a hermit.Begemott

Well from a FPS side, look at all the quake players, most of them have been playing for thousands and thousands of hours. At least 6-8hrs a day, and every day. Any quake, from QW to Q4 take a lot and a lot of skill, being why most quake players like to think they(even me sometimes) are the elitest of FPS gamers.

Ive only been playing Quake 3/4, some QW, since summer of 2006, and Ive got atleast 2000hrs on them or more. About half of my time is just practicing movement. Ive just about dedicated my whole life to Quake now, even eating healthy and exercising daily. I play myself about 5hrs a day on avg, and I do my best to get to higher levels, although I feel right now I've hit the wall where I just gotta keep playing and slowly, slowly, and slowly I will get better.Then one day, as long as i dont give up and there are so many times I have wanted to, I will be one of the top players.

I used to be a complete noob and console gamer, then one day I found PC gaming and within a month I found Quake and the competitive scene. I fell in love with it immediately. It became a addiction, something that I knew if I just work hard enough I can make it. Seeing these top players competing, just made me want to get to their skill level. Most of them have been playing for at the least 3yrs prior to ever being that good.

Most of them though have been playing for about 12yrs now ever since the first quake. The skill gap between them and me is still marginly huge. ( I still get raped from about 60 to 0 or at best 40 to 0.) While I can beat someone below my skill about 40-0 and sometimes even 60-0. Ok, I'm srry for rambling, but the point is, playing and dedicating yourself will always give you a sense of accomplishment.

Everything and anything you do takes skill. I love Quake because you have to constantly be reacting, before even reacting and having down to the pixel accuracy, quick math for timing items, strats for keeping control of the map and setting up shots all with seconds to do it all. Also to add, because of strafe jumping for someone like me that doesnt have as great of natural aim like some of the really good top players, Im able to still be good as long as my movement is good. So while somone may think it takes a lot of good aiming and it does, this game isnt centered around aim.

Srry if I sound a bit fanboyish and I did not intend to come off as arrogant or off subject. I completely understand your feeling of accomplishment. It's really hard to beleive you dedicated yourself so much to a game until years later and you are still playing it. So congrats =)

Everything and anything you do takes skill.

crazymonkey092

That's it! Games require skill, unlike movies or more passive interests. The general public would respect a person who is really good at chess, this is an established game that has sort of a sophisticated feel about it. And people know it takes skill.

But back up...because computer/video games are still relatively new, historically speaking, the response by many in the general public about someone who plays them a lot is disgust and incomprehension.

Look at a few posts above regarding people thinking I'm a hermit. I have my own business, I date, I'm in decent shape, good looking, college educated, have friends BUT like to play games a couple of hours each night.

"A couple of hours each night" adds up pretty fast.

I don't think recognition or respect is what I was looking for AT ALL, when I wrote the original post. I think what I had discovered is that certain games require more of a person than I had originally thought.

Going back to Vanguard, for an example. Here I was, online, with strangers from around the country. We were doing a very, very challenging quest that required much cooperation and communication (and time) to finish. I realized that a person who wasn't good at MMOs--i.e. had little skills or experience with the genre--would never have been able to accomplish what we just had.

I used to feel kind of sorry for the people I knew, or the people I heard about, who spent a lot of time playing games. I thought they were nerds who couldn't do anything better with their time or lives.

It wasn't until I actually met many of these people, some in real life, that I realized I was wrong. Not only did they have lives, but they chose to invest much of themselves in games. It wasn't out of desperation.

Granted, there are shut ins and gamer types who less-kind people would label as "losers". But gaming on a hardcore level, I think and hope, doesn't autmoatically qualify a person for hermit status.

I could sum up where my thoughts are by refining my original topic heading: Games Have Become Something More Than Entertainment; Instead, For Some, They Have Become A Hobby.

Now that's not profound, but I think "hobby" implies an area of interest or activity with sufficient depth and complexity to justify a person spending time on it. 20 years ago, games simply didn't qualify. 10 years, 1998, I still would wonder. But now, especially with MMOs and other games being online--whether they be cooperative or competitive (like Quake)--they have possibly become legitimate hobbies.

And I think it's all the more remarkable when a person enjoys 1 game so much, be it Everquest or Quake, that they have no reason to waste their money on other games.

Finally, I was indeed joking about the resume comment. I've applied and hired enough people to know what and what not to put on a resume.