GFWL Hate... But Why?

I am and never have been a PC gamer. Since the beginning I have always used consoles and never had a PC capable of running any of the new exclusive-to-PC games that occasionally caught my eye. A few weeks ago, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition was announced, and since I had finally bought a PC that could run a few games last year, I decided to buy the game (again) for PC to try the new content when it came out (now that the bonus content will be available for consoles, I don't think I'm going to buy it now, though). I Had also heard that the game would use GFWL as its DRM. For me this was no problem: I had loved the original Xbox and have been using a 360 as my primary console since Halo 3, so the chance at using a very familiar online system sounded appealing. I could communicate with friends who are also on live, earn Gamerscore, and use an interface which would seemingly help me adapt to the new way to play a game. However, the use of GFWL with the new Dark Souls edition stirred up plenty of controversy in the PC gaming community, including a petition to avoid the needed use of GFWL to play the game (which I'm sure you're all aware of). At first, I suspected this was one of two things: Microsoft hate, since it appears Valve are the PC gamers' sweethearts and Microsoft should not encroach on their turf, or Xbox Live hate, due to its interface or its community or simple PC elitism (sorry guys, it exists and thrives). I decided to do a little investigating to see which of the two options, if any (or maybe more), the issue derived itself from, and it now seems my first assumptions may not hold the answers. It seems that the DRM implementation is awful and the service is not even close to user-friendly, but since I am apparently 5 years late on the matter, I wasn't seeing the reasons why GFWL was so unapproachable as much as how it ruined the gaming experiences of recent users. To educate and ignorant console gamer, what is wrong with Games for Windows - Live and why is it such a pariah in the PC gaming community? As a side-note, this is not an attempt to call out any PC gamers or to defend the service, but is an admission of ignorance and the seeking of information. I know nothing about why the service is so bad, so of course it cannot look too unappealing. Once I know the facts, THEN I can create an educated opinion on the matter.

GFWL has a nastey habit of not working right. For the longest time, almost everybody who's ever used GFWL has had problems connecting to the servers, patching the game, or even getting the game to work. GFWL also has a nasty problem with keeping your save game files. A lot of people, including myself, have lost signifcant chunks of gameplay thanks to GFWL.

It's gotten better in years and for games now it seems to work right. However the memories of it not connecting because it says I was out of a region supported (even though I was in the center of the USA) still linger in my mind.

I would prefer to avoid GFWL at all becuase the risks of something going wrong are pretty damn high. It's not a dealbreaker for me, but I can see where it would be for some people who aren't as patient as I.

The hate has nothing to do with what you are saying. Nobody cares that it's pretty much XBL ported to the PC. If it would work the way it's supposed to, it's actually not a terrible service. The fact that it has so many problems and causes so many unecessary headaches when trying to just play a game is why most people dislike GFWL.

Becuase most people have had something go wrong for them. And its just an bother esp when most gamers buy there games on steam. I had it delete my save once and then another time i couldn't play a game becuase the patch kept failing.

From what I hear, it seems it has hope. If it has gotten better over the years, perhaps my lack of experience would be a good thing. The issues do sound pretty tedious, but I don't mind rolling the dice with some PC games Like Warhammer 40K since I can't say lost data would be too depressing. Thanks for the response. You really hepled me separate the facts from preconceived notions of PC elitism. Perhaps I'll reconsider Dark Souls since a lot of the criticism seems to be based on the early issues with GFWL.

No hate from me for Microsoft but GFWL really is a pain in the arse.

Just logging in can be difficult and that's ignoring the other potential problems, so if I could avoid it I would. There are other online service providers that do a better job, including Origin (that statement leaves a nasty taste in my mouth!) but I think most people would rather just have the game and no DRM

I feel like less of an undesirable for likig it a little. I tried that Tinker game for a bit and the Live format was really nice and familiar. I am a little less terrified about it, but the issues do seem severe in comparison to Steam which I've used about the same amount and seems to be the preferred metod for playing games/game management. I bet it's a lot more popular with people who play games primarily on Xbox rather than those who use a PC. I don't know if anyone knows this, but are they actively pursuing ways to fix the service? It seems broken in execution, not concept.

After my Arkham City save got deleted....im filled with rage.:evil:

Lets make this short and sweet.

It almost never works. and I am being generous when I say "almost"

it reeks of consolization. The entire interface seems to be designed for a console. Hell, it even had A and B buttons 3 years ago!

Most importantly, why do I need to use it? I don't care for stupid friends lists or meaningless achievements. I just want to play my game. The biggest problem with these big 3rd party DRM's is that they are so forced, it's insulting.

GFWL has a nastey habit of not working right. For the longest time, almost everybody who's ever used GFWL has had problems connecting to the servers, patching the game, or even getting the game to work. GFWL also has a nasty problem with keeping your save game files. A lot of people, including myself, have lost signifcant chunks of gameplay thanks to GFWL.

It's gotten better in years and for games now it seems to work right. However the memories of it not connecting because it says I was out of a region supported (even though I was in the center of the USA) still linger in my mind.

I would prefer to avoid GFWL at all becuase the risks of something going wrong are pretty damn high. It's not a dealbreaker for me, but I can see where it would be for some people who aren't as patient as I.

The hate has nothing to do with what you are saying. Nobody cares that it's pretty much XBL ported to the PC. If it would work the way it's supposed to, it's actually not a terrible service. The fact that it has so many problems and causes so many unecessary headaches when trying to just play a game is why most people dislike GFWL.

Wasdie

i remember when i bought batman arkham asylum on steam, it installed gfwl on the first launch setup...apparently the version of gfwl that m$ told steam to pair with it was the wrong version, and for some odd reason gfwl didnt want to auto update to the latest version. i had to uninstall it and manually install just get batman aa to run.

tho its not quite as bad as uplay...ugh...i got the newest prince of persia game, and i couldnt even play it. i had to log on to uplay to start the game. then after launch i had to log onto uplay AGAIN...and throughout the entire time i tired to play i would lose connection and have to sit there for the uplay server to respond so i could play the sp game again. i have somethin like 5 hours logged according to steam and have yet to beat the first level. im glad i got it on sale.

all that being said...im just not a big fan of gfwl...it could be worse...uplay...but i think the biggest reason i dont like it is because its required for gfwl games that u buy thru steam. if i have one piece of drm i shouldnt need another to do the same exact thing. that and its not steam, and im not being a fan boy here, just saying that steam is the most reliable dd client out there, and its the most economical...

First problem:My country's unsupported...

As for other problems,maybe I'll write a book on that topic one day,from game crashes to failing log-in attempts that take away 10 minutes of my time before the damn thing works,and the game becomes playable...

Should be completely discontined.I really hope it happens,everyone who publishes games on PC should drop it,and go with better working and more popular options.They would earn more money too...

I first used it with GTA4 and I had no problems with it. Since then I have used it for Arkham Asylum and Red Faction: Guerilla. Still no problems.

PC gamers seem to be (in general) always on their period when it comes to DRM. If it's not Steam it's not worth buying. As I always say, I love PC gaming but I dislike PC gamers.

I first used it with GTA4 and I had no problems with it. Since then I have used it for Arkham Asylum and Red Faction: Guerilla. Still no problems.

PC gamers seem to be (in general) always on their period when it comes to DRM. If it's not Steam it's not worth buying. As I always say, I love PC gaming but I dislike PC gamers.

HyperWarlock

Don't worry. Windows 8 will fix the problems with GFWL and make it much better.

[QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]

I first used it with GTA4 and I had no problems with it. Since then I have used it for Arkham Asylum and Red Faction: Guerilla. Still no problems.

PC gamers seem to be (in general) always on their period when it comes to DRM. If it's not Steam it's not worth buying. As I always say, I love PC gaming but I dislike PC gamers.

ferret-gamer

No, I didn't say that. If some has had problems then thats fine. A lot of people though have had a couple of problems in the past and after that refuse to use it again.

PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.

PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.HyperWarlock

And console gamers have no standards and will swallow just about anything.

[QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.-wildflower-

And console gamers have no standards and will swallow just about anything.

If they are enjoying the games they play then whats the problem? I dont want this to turn into system wars as I don't even own a console anymore and am a PC gamer. You play games to have fun. Not to worry about DRM. I think in some cases console gamers are actually a nicer bunch if my Red Dead Redemption session last month was anything to go by.

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"][QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]

I first used it with GTA4 and I had no problems with it. Since then I have used it for Arkham Asylum and Red Faction: Guerilla. Still no problems.

PC gamers seem to be (in general) always on their period when it comes to DRM. If it's not Steam it's not worth buying. As I always say, I love PC gaming but I dislike PC gamers.

HyperWarlock

No, I didn't say that. If some has had problems then thats fine. A lot of people though have had a couple of problems in the past and after that refuse to use it again.

PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.HyperWarlock

And console gamers have no standards and will swallow just about anything.

If they are enjoying the games they play then whats the problem? I dont want this to turn into system wars as I don't even own a console anymore and am a PC gamer. You play games to have fun. Not to worry about DRM. I think in some cases console gamers are actually a nicer bunch if my Red Dead Redemption session last month was anything to go by.

Yet there are DRMs who make it very hard to have any fun from the games you purchased,and from my personal experience,GFWL is one of them.And I see most of this board agrees...

GFWL is intrusive,makes you worry will your game work,how many log-in attempts will you need before you can play,will you experience any crashes,will your country ever get supported(in my case),etc...

a picture is worth a thousand words.

I dont want this to turn into system wars... HyperWarlock

Then don't say things like:

PC gamers seem to be (in general) always on their period when it comes to DRM. If it's not Steam it's not worth buying. As I always say, I love PC gaming but I dislike PC gamers.

HyperWarlock

And...

PC gamers hold grudges for a couple of tiny things.

HyperWarlock

Or...

I think in some cases console gamers are actually a nicer bunch if my Red Dead Redemption session last month was anything to go by.

HyperWarlock

Just saying...

GFWL sucks, pure and simple. It could take some lessons from Steam.

Warlock is trollan, plain and simple. GFWL sucks bad, there's no two ways around it.

lol. i wont claim GFWL is good or anything but the truth is steam is just as worse. plus steam's support is probably one of the worst support services ever in the online business. but people here are steam fanboys for some reason. for god's sake they chose valve as the best developer recenlty when the only real game they did in the last 5 years is portal 2.

I didn't know Dark Souls was available to pre order on steam now...:O

I think I'm too used to Live at this point so I'll try a few games with GFWL. I'm still new to the PC thing so can you only use games with GFWL that have the corresponding banner or have been bought off the GFWL marketplace? I was looking to play Skyrim for the user-generated content anyway and losing a file would be no real issue since I already bought it and played the heck out of it on consoles.

Becuase most people have had something go wrong for them. And its just an bother esp when most gamers buy there games on steam. I had it delete my save once and then another time i couldn't play a game becuase the patch kept failing.

James161324

I guess I'm among the minority of users who have never had an issue using GFWL. Sometimes, I honestly prefer with it's gamepad support.

GFWL lost access to my saved games for DIRT 2. It's one of those games I rarely play, but sometimes fire up when I'm in the mood for something quick and mindless. I dislike GFWL so I created and used an offline mode profile and that worked fine until I got Batman:AC. That forced me to make an online profile and when I did that, I lost access to my saved games. They are still on my HD, but GFWL refuses to recognize them anymore. I tried copying them into my newer online profile, but GFWL gave me a message saying I was a naughty boy. Ridiculous. I uninstalled DIRT2 soon after.

Yesterday my Dirt 3 save got corrupted thanks to GFWL. Sh*t, I was just 20 races from completing the Dirt Tour.

TL;DR XL!!!!

HORRIBLE UI, terrible profiles system, confusing with offline and online play messing around with savegames and game functionality, lack of functions, etc etc

Because it's a 3rd party piece of software that the complainers don't want installed on their computer. After whining about GFWL, they'll then open up Steam, launch a game, and never acknowledge that their PC gaming messaih is a 3rd party piece of software required to play games...

If I can get good deals on GFWL then I have no problem with using it. Doesnt look any worse than Steam. I'd be willing to be it has features I like that Steam doesnt have.

Steam lets me install and play a game on multiple PCs without issues. GFWL is supposed to be the same way. Yet, when I installed one measly GFWL game (Bulletstorm) on a second PC, something went wrong with the authentication and now I can't play the game on either PC. It's stuck on the main menu screen of Bulletstorm.

If I can get good deals on GFWL then I have no problem with using it. Doesnt look any worse than Steam. I'd be willing to be it has features I like that Steam doesnt have.

slipknot0129

christmas is normally the only one with anything more than 1-2 games worth buying on though. like 2 years back when they had gears 1 for $1 or this past x-mas when they had bioshock 2 for $2 and all dlc was 75 cents or free

it ate up, chewed, and spit out my boxed copy of GTA 4 rendering it useless. Good thing steam had a sale, and I got it along with the expansions for $5. GFWL is an abomination. Was forced to use it for multiplayer in Dawn of War II as well, and the GUI and responsiveness was unacceptable in this gae, especially on the PC platform...i mean, sending inbox messages to invite people to lobbies? :lol: Good thing Relic scrapped that garbage and went for Steam when they released Retribution.

wall of text

GFWL sucks that's why.

[QUOTE="James161324"]

Becuase most people have had something go wrong for them. And its just an bother esp when most gamers buy there games on steam. I had it delete my save once and then another time i couldn't play a game becuase the patch kept failing.

SystemsGO

I guess I'm among the minority of users who have never had an issue using GFWL. Sometimes, I honestly prefer with it's gamepad support.