Halo Wars - what the hell is it doing to the RTS Genre?

I'm reading the Edge review of Halo Wars, and all that kept going through my head was:

you b@st@rds! You killed RTS!

I was expecting this game to be a wildly different animal from the standard of PC RTS titles, but not only was it different (which might've in fact been a very good thing - novel, interesting ideas are just that: novel and interesting) it was just...I don't know how to quite say it.

Suffice it to say that this game has taken a regular RTS, like AOE III, removed the resource element, and made the whole game about the instant gratification of the battles (don't call me a hypocrite for liking DoWII - that was a highly TACTICAL and STRATEGIC game, very much unlike this game). But the whole thing is, its just so fricking TYPICAL, especially of consoles. They're not patient, thinking, more reasonable gamers - the crowd wanted action, and a helluva lot more of it than strategy. And so Microsoft caters to that.

Look what's happening to the games industry - it's changing. Consoles are pulling a little more weight here and there. The PC is evolving too and growing at a rapid rate, but it's moving in the absolute opposite direction.

I think that a comparison of Halo Wars and Dawn of War II, two games that are very much alike, have been recently released, are both exclusives, and are both virtually without an economy:

Halo Wars - from what I gather, there's virtually nothing there. it's a void, empty...dark...scary. Take a bunch of units, rush them forward. Perform the occasional flank. This game is about power, not tactics. THis might've been acceptable in the late nineties, but things have changed. Red Alert 3 at least provided enough variety in the units/upgrades/secondary weapons to make each and every battle unique, fresh, and challenging. A fast paced game of rock paper scissors - I don't see that happening with Halo Wars. All I can see is "Master Chief SMASH!" repeated over and over again.

Dawn of War II - "Get that Heavy Bolter in the building! Scouts in back, covering fire! Tactical Squad take the flank - assault marines with me!" that's the average level of strategy that you're getting in DoW2 - each and every one of your units plays a very unique role, be it suppression, assault, shooting, terminating enemy personnell, or wutever the hell it is they do. Although there is a lot of simple rush involved, if you don't take cover and think about your next move, your troops will either be pinned, or shot to hell. Either way, they die. So if you're not thinking...you're dying. Most of the time, at least (in my experience).

The reason I posted this, is mostly because I'm in outrage over what Microsoft has done to the RTS Genre, that so many console gamers weaned on auto-targeting and dumbed down, well, everything are going to get just more of what they've come to expect; fast action, little to no thought involved.

Let me know if I'm wrong, honestly. I just want to hear people's thoughts.

Been happening for years, newly mainstream industry caters to mainstream need for instant gratification.

Some exceptions here and there, nothing major.

As far as the PC/Console divide, I would guess that because of the relatively more difficult logistics in getting a PC game to work correctly, many casual, non-analytical gamers are weeded out. Also, since PC gaming has had a relatively continuous stream of existence (it doesn't get new controllers every generation, generally maintains backwards compatibility, is not dependant on one company's success, etc), that there are more fans of old-school gaming still sticking around, looking for new, complex, thought-intensive games that remind them of the old days.

Its a console RTS game that will be played mostly by Halo fans who have never touched an RTS before, obviously its going to be basic and simple. Think about it, how many tactics can you pull off with a 360 controller? 360 fans just want to see big bad master chief run around killing everything. I don't see how this is changing the market.coolmonkeykid

its basically showing us for the final time (at least by his temper) that console gamers havent changed everytime a big name title comes to them they smack it with a stick and haul it back to the cave to be played while they wait for the next one. whereas computer based gaming has become a cult following group of people who have seen what can be done with a genre fully. how much can u really do with 16 buttons? the answer is not alot. hes fed up with it and wants some truly good ports to consoles that arent simply the same game hit with the stupid stick until a caveman could understands it. he wants smart console games. of which there are none. which my friends is why there arent more rts games on consoles.

so his point is this stop turning every game that requires you to think for a second into a caveman gratification match.

rts on consoles are bad, who'd have guessed?

You should have at least used this rant on endwar instead, that tom clancy crap deserves it more...

And i don't think its affecting the rts genre at all, its specifically designed for consoles and its going to be isolated there. What im getting at is it probably won't have any affect on PC rts which is basically the majority of rts anyway.

What are you all complaining about!

My neighbor's 6 yr-old thinks its the BEST GAME Ever!!!!

I wouldn't expect this form of RTS to significantly make it's way to the PC. This is console RTS. Console players are virtually new to RTS games. Think of them like your younger brother who you have to mold into a grown man. BumFluff122

That's actually a funny analogy...especially considering that RTSes started on consoles (well, a console: the Sega Genesis). Regardless, I just hope this doesn't devolve into what happened to Mech sims (once MS got their hands on the franchise, they ran it into the console ground).

bottom line: consolites who havent touched the pc will love Halo Wars because it's the best RTS they have ever played. and they're right. because it's the ONLY RTS they've ever played.Kh1ndjal

That all depends on when they started console gaming...the first RTS to appear on any platform was made for the Sega Genesis in 1989.

The demo was very MEH to me.

Id much rather play Age Of Empires 2 or 3 instead (infact.. after playing the demo i went to play Age Of Empires 3 and Company Of Heroes to get the taste outta my mouth from the Halo Wars).

The graphics and controls in the demo where good, but thats it, the fun factor just wasnt there for me.

Im just upset that ENSEMBLE is noMORE and ended up with HALOWARS instead of their best known RTS game Age of EMPIRES series.. They didnt even put time in asian dynasty and made BIG FISH games make it for them while they make this HALOWARS crap....

Ensemble shouldve end with a BIG BANG making their very AGE OF EMPIRES Series.. perhaps AOE4 or something wouldve been great!!

This thread could have been made 2 years ago when the game was announced.

The thing is that console RTS can't be good these days. It's not possible. Because the controls are so bad, the only way to make a console RTS interesting would be to make it strategy-heavy, and obviously developing such a game for a console audience is idiotic.

Let's just hope that the game "flops" and doesn't become the Halo of the RTS genre. Just imagine how great the FPS genre would have been if that game didn't initiate extreme newbification.

Because the controls are so bad ReddestSkies

Haven't played the demo, but it seems a lot of the impressions I have read are positive. Good for them! They created a game that pleases their target audience. I don't see what the problem is...dnuggs40

The RTS scene on the consoles is underdeveloped and uncompetitive compared to the PC RTS scene. As far as PC RTSers go, what we want is not what our console counterparts want in a strategy game.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]Haven't played the demo, but it seems a lot of the impressions I have read are positive. Good for them! They created a game that pleases their target audience. I don't see what the problem is...aliblabla2007

The RTS scene on the consoles is underdeveloped and uncompetitive compared to the PC RTS scene. As far as PC RTSers go, what we want is not what our console counterparts want in a strategy game.

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]Haven't played the demo, but it seems a lot of the impressions I have read are positive. Good for them! They created a game that pleases their target audience. I don't see what the problem is...dnuggs40

The RTS scene on the consoles is underdeveloped and uncompetitive compared to the PC RTS scene. As far as PC RTSers go, what we want is not what our console counterparts want in a strategy game.

There happens to be widespread fear that Halo Wars' success (looks almost guaranteed at this point) will cause a widespread multiplatforming of the genre, making PC developers accomodate console restrictions and audience appeal, then when they piss off the PC crowd and lose sales due to it, they spread more misinformation crap about how piracy is dampening PC gaming and all that.

Considering that Halo did this to our PC FPSs (I have to admit it was a much better-made game than the more consolized versions of PC FPSs, namely Call of Duty 2 and after). Thing is, unless the 360 gets more strategy-game friendly with controls, RAM, audience, .etc, the RTS genre will be hit much harder than the FPS genre.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

The RTS scene on the consoles is underdeveloped and uncompetitive compared to the PC RTS scene. As far as PC RTSers go, what we want is not what our console counterparts want in a strategy game.

aliblabla2007

There happens to be widespread fear that Halo Wars' success (looks almost guaranteed at this point) will cause a widespread multiplatforming of the genre, making PC developers accomodate console restrictions and audience appeal, then when they piss off the PC crowd and lose sales due to it, they spread more misinformation crap about how piracy is dampening PC gaming and all that.

Considering that Halo did this to our PC FPSs (I have to admit it was a much better-made game than the ones it affected). Thing is, unless the 360 gets more strategy-game friendly with controls, RAM, audience, .etc, the RTS genre will be hit much harder than the FPS genre.

I don't see that at all, and think these people with "wide spread fears" are akin to chicken little. If there is any game that has "changed" the way RTS games are, look no further then a well known PC exclusive from Relic. Anyways, the PC has a solid market for complicated RTS games, and those people (and more importantly their money) isn't going anywhere. I see many hours of PC RTS gaming bliss in your future.dnuggs40

To be honest, I don't see what kind of "effect" Relic games have had on the RTS genre... still as much variety as ever, with pretty much the only RTSs following Relic's method being... Relic RTSs. WiC is actually a result of Massive's take, SupCom follows Total Annihilation's ideal, the Total War series still has its basis and Starcraft II looks nothing like Company of Heroes. Demigod is practicing a form of indirect unit control which has nothing to do with Relic, Sins of a Solar Empire is a far cry from anything they have ever done and you get the drift.

I'll only get that PC RTS gaming bliss if they stay exclusive, or if multiplatation does not change their design philosophy. Which I can't see happening if Halo Wars makes an impact and attracts developer attention.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"] I don't see that at all, and think these people with "wide spread fears" are akin to chicken little. If there is any game that has "changed" the way RTS games are, look no further then a well known PC exclusive from Relic. Anyways, the PC has a solid market for complicated RTS games, and those people (and more importantly their money) isn't going anywhere. I see many hours of PC RTS gaming bliss in your future.aliblabla2007

To be honest, I don't see what kind of "effect" Relic games have had on the RTS genre... still as much variety as ever, with pretty much the only RTSs following Relic's method being... Relic RTSs. WiC is actually a result of Massive's take, SupCom follows Total Annihilation's ideal, the Total War series still has its basis and Starcraft II looks nothing like Company of Heroes. Demigod is practicing a form of indirect unit control which has nothing to do with Relic, Sins of a Solar Empire is a far cry from anything they have ever done and you get the drift.

I'll only get that PC RTS gaming bliss if they stay exclusive, or if multiplatation does not change their design philosophy. Which I can't see happening if Halo Wars makes an impact and attracts developer attention.

I don't think halo wars succes will hurt PC RTS games. Hell the only thing that will hurt PC RTS games in the next 2-3 years is the succes of SC2, since we will get a lot of clones of it.

and relic made very little impact on RTS games, sure they follow a new fun formula that is kinda sucesull, but no one realy tries to folow it. Which RTS addopted cover? I know of TC EndWar having it and they only have 2 infantry units that can make use of it. A lot of the innovations made (well lets say popularized) by relic are getting ignored in RTS games made by other developers.RA3 droped the whole squad thing since they saw it didn't work in CnC3. You can't make a RTS game and throw squads into it instead of a single unit, you need to build the game around the infantry being in form of squads

its doing nothing to the genre, its just 1 game! your acting like its the end of the world

its doing nothing to the genre, its just 1 game! your acting like its the end of the world

Budz420

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]I wouldn't expect this form of RTS to significantly make it's way to the PC. This is console RTS. Console players are virtually new to RTS games. Think of them like your younger brother who you have to mold into a grown man. Ein-7919

That's actually a funny analogy...especially considering that RTSes started on consoles (well, a console: the Sega Genesis). Regardless, I just hope this doesn't devolve into what happened to Mech sims (once MS got their hands on the franchise, they ran it into the console ground).

This thread is sad...

Gentlemen, it's a CONSOLE RTS intended to draw people in who are unfamiliar with the genre. It's just ONE game. Can someone please explain to me how it's runing the genre? Please, I'm dieing to know how a CONSOLE game is ruining PC RTS games. That just astounds how people can be so ignorant. Why do you think PC gamers have a bad rep, it's because the majority of them are arrogant elitists. Halo Wars sets out what it plans to do and is NOT ruining the RTS genre in anyway. Get over yourselves and stop being such elitist jerks. :|

Halo wars isnt hurting the rts genre at all, if anything its just putting out more competion on consoles, personally i tihnk to have a truly great rts on consoles there has to be a mouse/keyboard option.

But ya i cant wait for dow2 picking it up tomorrow ive been likin the beta, but seriously you acting way to critical, halo wars is fine for what it is.

tomorrow its time to bring the WAAAAGGGG