HD 6870, worth getting over GTX 460?

So I have finally got my rig build sorted, but I was torn between GTX 460 and the HD 6870. I went for the HD 6870 but will it be worth the £40 difference? It might seem trivial considering the whole build (excluding monitor) cost £918. I am just wondering because the extra £40 would have got me a better monitor, but I was already over budget and I wanted to be strict about not going over further.

Btw if any of you are interested this is my build :

- AMD Phenom II X6 Six Core 1055T 2.80GHz (Socket AM3) Processor

- Corsair CWCH50-1 Corsair Water-Cooling High performance CPU Cooler

-Corsair XMS 6GB DDR3 1600MHz PC12800 Gaming RAM

- Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 6870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E Graphics Card

- GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 (Socket AM3) DDR3 Motherboard

- Samsung 1TB Harddrive

-600W corsair power supply (forgot the actual name)

- Sweex 300Mbps Internal Wireless Card

Its my first real gaming PC and from reading on here and such it sounds like it will be good to go :D Now all I need is D3 to be released lol... Hurry up blizzard please :)

You made a good choice.

The HD 6870 is better than the GTX 260.

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff. This is what I found when looking for info people were contradicting each other and wouldn't agree which is better, taking into account OC'ing too.

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff.

wigan_gamer

[QUOTE="wigan_gamer"]

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff.

C_Rule

Uhm, either you're mistaken with the 6850 or you need to check your sources.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/1

According to this and many othersthe 6870 is about 20 to 30% faster than the 460.

[QUOTE="C_Rule"][QUOTE="wigan_gamer"]

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff.

Heyhuub

Uhm, either you're mistaken with the 6850 or you need to check your sources.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/1

According to this and many othersthe 6870 is about 20 to 30% faster than the 460.

^Is tom's hardware in the minority then? IIRC they reported that the 460 was a tad better than the 6870. I could be wrong.bawathegamer

No Toms hardware shows the 6870 better than the 460 and the 6850 about neck and neck with the 460

^Is tom's hardware in the minority then? IIRC they reported that the 460 was a tad better than the 6870. I could be wrong.bawathegamer

Theres no question if the HD5850 is faster than the gtx460 1GB, rigth?

AH right I might have been looking at the 5850 lol.. It has been long days recently give me a break :P

[QUOTE="wigan_gamer"]

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff.

C_Rule

Actually from the vast majority of the reviews that I've seen, the 6870 is a bit faster than the GTX 460 1GB in almost all games. Now, the 460 is quite a bit cheaper, and it benefits more from overclocking than the 6870, so that's the appeal there.. The fact that you can buy a 460 1GB and quickly OC it to match or surpass a 6870 in most games for $40 less than a 6870.

However, stock versus stock (even at the 700-720 mhz that most 460's are coming clocked at now), the 6870 is faster. That's just how it is.

Wrong build. You don't need triple channel RAM, and drop that CPU for a 965 if you won't be encoding 1080p film's into .mkv daily. I'd pick up a 4GB kit of Kinsgton's Value Ram (KVR) DDR3 1333MHz. Otherwise, a good build.

Personally I wouldn't get a HD 6870.

The cards TO GET right now are the $160 GTX 460 768MB, $180 HD 6850, and $190 GTX 460 1GB if you're looking for high end performance while still having a beastly price-performance ratio. The HD 6870 / GTX 470 are about $50 more and don't offer that much more.

Of course, THE BEST price-performance card right now is the 4850. ;DD

[QUOTE="bawathegamer"]^Is tom's hardware in the minority then? IIRC they reported that the 460 was a tad better than the 6870. I could be wrong.swehunt

Theres no question if the HD5850 is faster than the gtx460 1GB, rigth?

My bad. I mixed it up. I was thinking about the 6850 compared to the 460 1gb. I remember reading a review or 2 that stated the 6850 was slightly faster(3-5%) compared to the 1gb 460 at stock. ....and Tom's stated otherwise. I read so many reviews that day that it all seems like a blur. :P

Personally I wouldn't get a HD 6870.

The cards TO GET right now are the $160 GTX 460 768MB, $180 HD 6850, and $190 GTX 460 1GB if you're looking for high end performance while still having a beastly price-performance ratio. The HD 6870 / GTX 470 are about $50 more and don't offer that much more.

Of course, THE BEST price-performance card right now is the 4850. ;DD

kaitanuvax

They don't offer much more yet. But when the 6850 starts to run out of puff that extra muscle in the 6870 will help.

They don't offer much more yet. But when the 6850 starts to run out of puff that extra muscle in the 6870 will help.

desertpython

What kind of logic is that? You might as well get a HD 5970 because it has that much more puff, right?

I'm speaking in terms of bang per buck, and clearly 6870 doesn't have as much as the 6850.

[QUOTE="desertpython"]

They don't offer much more yet. But when the 6850 starts to run out of puff that extra muscle in the 6870 will help.

kaitanuvax

What kind of logic is that? You might as well get a HD 5970 because it has that much more puff, right?

I'm speaking in terms of bang per buck, and clearly 6870 doesn't have as much as the 6850.

The 5970 is just about obsolete and the 6870 will outlast the 6850.

The 5970 is just about obsolete and the 6870 will outlast the 6850.

desertpython

Let me get this straight. You're calling the 5970, a card with double the performance of a 6870, obsolete?

[QUOTE="desertpython"]

The 5970 is just about obsolete and the 6870 will outlast the 6850.

kaitanuvax

Let me get this straight. You're calling the 5970, a card with double the performance of a 6870, obsolete?

Yes, the 69xx will replace it. Its obsolete in terms of the model, not the performance.

Yes, the 69xx will replace it. Its obsolete in terms of the model, not the performance.

desertpython

I dont get what that has to do with bang per buck?

[QUOTE="kaitanuvax"]

[QUOTE="desertpython"]

The 5970 is just about obsolete and the 6870 will outlast the 6850.

desertpython

Let me get this straight. You're calling the 5970, a card with double the performance of a 6870, obsolete?

Yes, the 69xx will replace it. Its obsolete in terms of the model, not the performance.

The GTX580 was in my humble opinion a very desperate move (to atleast be figthing with one arm left against the upcomming HD69 serie) and it didn't make it to my expectations, the gtx460 was a very sucsessfull card and i sort of were hoping another spinoff from the GF104 design witch is in my oppinion the better die compared to the ûber bulcky GF110 found in gtx580. (redesign of the very ineffective gf100)

Even if i don't agree with GTX580 being the great sucsessor to gtx480 it is still a better choise than the HD5970.

The HD69xx cards havnt got benchmarked yet but i do belive the top card beating the gtx580 at much more atractive selling points. (as in not needing a expencive cooling solution and not drawing 300w, probobly better price as it's supposedly cheaper to make.)

The HD5970 isn't obsolete quite yet but it's not as attractive anymore either.

See what it is obvious form the benchmraks is that the GTX 460 1gb is almost neck to neck to the hd6850 in some benchmarks and lags behind the hd6870 by 3-6fps margins.And the dx11 performance/tessalation stuff are more refined in the HD6800 series.But then the GTX 460 has the Physx,however insignificant.So end of the day GTX 460 owners should sit tight until the HD 6900 series launches.Upgrading to a HD6870 is definitely a step forward but not a considerable stride ahead as most like to see while upgrading GPU's.

See what it is obvious form the benchmraks is that the GTX 460 1gb is almost neck to neck to the hd6850 in some benchmarks and lags behind the hd6870 by 3-6fps margins.And the dx11 performance/tessalation stuff are more refined in the HD6800 series.But then the GTX 460 has the Physx,however insignificant.So end of the day GTX 460 owners should sit tight until the HD 6900 series launches.Upgrading to a HD6870 is definitely a step forward but not a considerable stride ahead as most like to see while upgrading GPU's.

Serioussamik

Yes thats what I meant :) its not an upgrade, but a choice between both.wigan_gamer

[QUOTE="C_Rule"][QUOTE="wigan_gamer"]

Arghhh sorry I meant 460 yes :)

Glad to know they are both good but I struggled to find info on whether it was worth it as it was a fair bit more expensive. Which is actually better though in terms of gaming? I dont really do photoshop or any of that other crazy media stuff.

Heyhuub

Uhm, either you're mistaken with the 6850 or you need to check your sources.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/1

According to this and many othersthe 6870 is about 20 to 30% faster than the 460.

Also according to that review, the 6870 is most of the time just squeezing out in front of the 470...

[QUOTE="bawathegamer"]^Is tom's hardware in the minority then? IIRC they reported that the 460 was a tad better than the 6870. I could be wrong.swehunt

Theres no question if the HD5850 is faster than the gtx460 1GB, rigth?

Because the 460 easily overclocks much higher than the reference speed and overclocking is so simple and fool proof, I don't bother reading reviews unless both cards have been overclocked.

The 460 is at ridiculously low speeds compared to what it can do and the reference 6870 looks as if its nearly been pushed to its limits, just look at the temps, it runs about 20°c hotter than the 460.

So showing someone stock 460 vs stock 6870 results mean nothing.

Because the 460 easily overclocks much higher than the reference speed and overclocking is so simple and fool proof, I don't bother reading reviews unless both cards have been overclocked.

The 460 is at ridiculously low speeds compared to what it can do and the reference 6870 looks as if its nearly been pushed to its limits, just look at the temps, it runs about 20°c hotter than the 460.

So showing someone stock 460 vs stock 6870 results mean nothing.

C_Rule

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/37499-hd-6870-hd-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study-3.html

The 6870 max OCed does better than the GTX 460 max OCed 27/48 times. Case closed.

[QUOTE="C_Rule"]

Because the 460 easily overclocks much higher than the reference speed and overclocking is so simple and fool proof, I don't bother reading reviews unless both cards have been overclocked.

The 460 is at ridiculously low speeds compared to what it can do and the reference 6870 looks as if its nearly been pushed to its limits, just look at the temps, it runs about 20°c hotter than the 460.

So showing someone stock 460 vs stock 6870 results mean nothing.

kaitanuvax

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/37499-hd-6870-hd-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study-3.html

The 6870 max OCed does better than the GTX 460 max OCed 27/48 times. Case closed.

Don't you think it should do a bit better than that considering it costs $40 more?

i5750at4Ghz

I do. That's exactly the reason why, if you've read my earlier post, I didnt recommend it.

I'm just showing the GTX 460 isn't a god when max OCed, contrary to what 99% of this forum thinks.

[QUOTE="desertpython"]

The 5970 is just about obsolete and the 6870 will outlast the 6850.

kaitanuvax

Let me get this straight. You're calling the 5970, a card with double the performance of a 6870, obsolete?

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

Don't you think it should do a bit better than that considering it costs $40 more?

kaitanuvax

I do. That's exactly the reason why, if you've read my earlier post, I didnt recommend it.

I'm just showing the GTX 460 isn't a god when max OCed, contrary to what 99% of this forum thinks.

crossfire those 6870s and at a lower price, you'll get noticeably superior performance. dx11 tessellation scales better with the 6xxx series so far as well. its pretty much obsolete when something cheaper can outperform it. this may sound like this is not on topic, but the 6870/6850s in crossfire are the best bang for buck right now.yellosnolvr

I know. But I was just arguing his saying to "spend that little extra" for a 6870 rather than a 6850. The $70 isn't worth it for the performance you get, honestly.

To which he replied that the "extra muscle" will help. And I reply, then why not get a 5970, that's alot more musscle, isn't it?

Basicly, the 6870 just doesn't have the sort of price/performance that the 6850/460 has.

[QUOTE="yellosnolvr"] crossfire those 6870s and at a lower price, you'll get noticeably superior performance. dx11 tessellation scales better with the 6xxx series so far as well. its pretty much obsolete when something cheaper can outperform it. this may sound like this is not on topic, but the 6870/6850s in crossfire are the best bang for buck right now.kaitanuvax

I know. But I was just arguing his saying to "spend that little extra" for a 6870 rather than a 6850. The $70 isn't worth it for the performance you get, honestly.

To which he replied that the "extra muscle" will help. And I reply, then why not get a 5970, that's alot more musscle, isn't it?

Basicly, the 6870 just doesn't have the sort of price/performance that the 6850/460 has.

Link

They look pretty much the same to me.

To be honest, I probably would have gotten the 6870 if they were out when I upgraded as I have an X38 board with two PCI-Ex16 lanes.

I'm not tripping though, I'm very happy with my card and I'll probably do a new system in 1-2 years, just would have been good to have that other option of dual cards.

[QUOTE="C_Rule"]

Because the 460 easily overclocks much higher than the reference speed and overclocking is so simple and fool proof, I don't bother reading reviews unless both cards have been overclocked.

The 460 is at ridiculously low speeds compared to what it can do and the reference 6870 looks as if its nearly been pushed to its limits, just look at the temps, it runs about 20°c hotter than the 460.

So showing someone stock 460 vs stock 6870 results mean nothing.

kaitanuvax

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/37499-hd-6870-hd-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study-3.html

The 6870 max OCed does better than the GTX 460 max OCed 27/48 times. Case closed.

27/48 games is far from a dominating victory.. especially considering the price difference between the cards. The 6870 costs 20% more. The fact that we can even argue about this says that the GTX 460 1GB is still a great buy. A $230 to $240 card versus a $190 to $200 card.. What's the point?

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

Don't you think it should do a bit better than that considering it costs $40 more?

kaitanuvax

I do. That's exactly the reason why, if you've read my earlier post, I didnt recommend it.

I'm just showing the GTX 460 isn't a god when max OCed, contrary to what 99% of this forum thinks.

Everything is relative to the price of the product.. for $190 to $200, yeah, a GTX 460 1GB OC'd is a "god."

27/48 games is far from a dominating victory.. especially considering the price difference between the cards. The 6870 costs 20% more. The fact that we can even argue about this says that the GTX 460 1GB is still a great buy. A $230 to $240 card versus a $190 to $200 card.. What's the point?

hartsickdiscipl

Never said it was that much better. Just proving that it isn't better than everything else when max oc'ed.

Everything is relative to the price of the product.. for $190 to $200, yeah, a GTX 460 1GB OC'd is a "god."

hartsickdiscipl

Exactly so.

More the reason why OP shouldn't get a 6870.

I spy with my smartass eye a whole lot of brand loyalty up in hurr. :P

With the arguments going back and forth it is very clear that between the 4 mid range cards (GTX 460 1GB / GTX 460 7...56MB? ...gimped edition, there, that works better / HD 6850 / HD 6870) they are all winners. Much like overly nurtured children from overly liberal parents they are all winners, no losers.

I spy with my smartass eye a whole lot of brand loyalty up in hurr. :P

With the arguments going back and forth it is very clear that between the 4 mid range cards (GTX 460 1GB / GTX 460 7...56MB? ...gimped edition, there, that works better / HD 6850 / HD 6870) they are all winners. Much like overly nurtured children from overly liberal parents they are all winners, no losers.

tequilasunriser

[QUOTE="Serioussamik"]

See what it is obvious form the benchmraks is that the GTX 460 1gb is almost neck to neck to the hd6850 in some benchmarks and lags behind the hd6870 by 3-6fps margins.And the dx11 performance/tessalation stuff are more refined in the HD6800 series.But then the GTX 460 has the Physx,however insignificant.So end of the day GTX 460 owners should sit tight until the HD 6900 series launches.Upgrading to a HD6870 is definitely a step forward but not a considerable stride ahead as most like to see while upgrading GPU's.

swehunt

Misinterpreted the question a bit! :D

Yes if one's buying a card and yet to decide between gtx 460 and hd6870,the latter is the one to get.

[QUOTE="swehunt"]

[QUOTE="Serioussamik"]

See what it is obvious form the benchmraks is that the GTX 460 1gb is almost neck to neck to the hd6850 in some benchmarks and lags behind the hd6870 by 3-6fps margins.And the dx11 performance/tessalation stuff are more refined in the HD6800 series.But then the GTX 460 has the Physx,however insignificant.So end of the day GTX 460 owners should sit tight until the HD 6900 series launches.Upgrading to a HD6870 is definitely a step forward but not a considerable stride ahead as most like to see while upgrading GPU's.

Serioussamik

Misinterpreted the question a bit! :D

Yes if one's buying a card and yet to decide between gtx 460 and hd6870,the latter is the one to get.

I'm still not convinced of that. Not when taking the price into account. If I can get a card for $40 less that I can overclock to perform like the more expensive card in 2 minutes, plus get Physx, Cuda, and better folding performance.. I can tell you which one I'm going with.

Everything I've seen demonstrates that a 6870 will beat a reference GTX 460 but as you move up through gtx 460 superclock editions+ the margin shrinks and even ocing a gtx 460 and 6870 to max, the performance will be very similar. Then offcourse certain games run better on AMD and others on Nvidia. In the end, you can get a 460 1gb for cheaper then a 6870, and with really easily software, overclock the core clock, memory and shaders and beat a 6870 while still being cooler. In the end, its best to just assume they are equal. People gonna try to throw reviews out on both sides but these 2 cards and fact of how gtx 460 was designed (low reference speeds.. extremely high max temp, high overclock potential without any problems) its just impossible to really do a good comparison of the cards.

Same goes for the GTX 460 768mb vs a 6850 though the 768mb has a higher overclock potential and performance increase due to having a extra 6 pin for power.

When we look at price, for some reason the 6870's have increased in price since release. Don't know if it was a AMD discounts or something but the 6870's (USD) are now are now average $239-$249.99 while the gtx 460 1gb are floating between $189 (default reference speeds) up to $249.99 for the extremely overclocked editions.

6850s are sitting around 179.99-199.99 while the gtx 460 768mb is sitting at 159.99 (rebates as low at 139.99) to some weird ones up to 219.99 (199.99 after rebates).

AGAIN ALL USD price numbers used.

And then when you fight them in pairs the 6870 dominates.

I'd like either. tbh 460 or 6870

[QUOTE="swehunt"]

[QUOTE="bawathegamer"]^Is tom's hardware in the minority then? IIRC they reported that the 460 was a tad better than the 6870. I could be wrong.C_Rule

Theres no question if the HD5850 is faster than the gtx460 1GB, rigth?

Because the 460 easily overclocks much higher than the reference speed and overclocking is so simple and fool proof, I don't bother reading reviews unless both cards have been overclocked.

The 460 is at ridiculously low speeds compared to what it can do and the reference 6870 looks as if its nearly been pushed to its limits, just look at the temps, it runs about 20°c hotter than the 460.

So showing someone stock 460 vs stock 6870 results mean nothing.

"Theres another factor that may rule in, OC'ing, it will shift the distance to a near draw between the gtx46 1Gb and the HD6870 but remember theese is if the cards are clocked VERY hard because the gtx460 in general have a tad higher max clock than the HD68x0 does.

So it also depends on if you want to OC, even a moderate clock on both cards still benefit the HD6870 the most as it's not untill the HD6870 cannot do higher clocks the gtx460 can take back some distance to the HD6870 ahead of it, i bet you dont feel safe running your cards near suicide clocks 24/7 either?" /end quote...

Isn't it obvious for all PC hardware knowlable that people are not pushing the clocks to suicide/vcore OC'ing for everyday use, if your head did just nod you agree HD6870 still being the better card even after that OC! ;)

6870, you can upgrade to more monitors without getting another card.

Just as i said erlier:

"Theres another factor that may rule in, OC'ing, it will shift the distance to a near draw between the gtx46 1Gb and the HD6870 but remember theese is if the cards are clocked VERY hard because the gtx460 in general have a tad higher max clock than the HD68x0 does.

So it also depends on if you want to OC, even a moderate clock on both cards still benefit the HD6870 the most as it's not untill the HD6870 cannot do higher clocks the gtx460 can take back some distance to the HD6870 ahead of it, i bet you dont feel safe running your cards near suicide clocks 24/7 either?" /end quote...

Isn't it obvious for all PC hardware knowlable that people are not pushing the clocks to suicide/vcore OC'ing for everyday use, if your head did just nod you agree HD6870 still being the better card even after that OC! ;)

swehunt

It's better, but I don't think it's $40 to $50 better.

[QUOTE="swehunt"]

Just as i said erlier:

"Theres another factor that may rule in, OC'ing, it will shift the distance to a near draw between the gtx46 1Gb and the HD6870 but remember theese is if the cards are clocked VERY hard because the gtx460 in general have a tad higher max clock than the HD68x0 does.

So it also depends on if you want to OC, even a moderate clock on both cards still benefit the HD6870 the most as it's not untill the HD6870 cannot do higher clocks the gtx460 can take back some distance to the HD6870 ahead of it, i bet you dont feel safe running your cards near suicide clocks 24/7 either?" /end quote...

Isn't it obvious for all PC hardware knowlable that people are not pushing the clocks to suicide/vcore OC'ing for everyday use, if your head did just nod you agree HD6870 still being the better card even after that OC! ;)

hartsickdiscipl

It's better, but I don't think it's $40 to $50 better.