Help with a desktop computer

So since the Hardware discussion forum is no longer under the main forums list, I am guessing it is gone (that and the sticky saying they are merging the PC & Mac discussion forum and the old hardware one?). If this is the wrong place to post you can move this if you want.

So here's my dilemma. I am a college student with a laptop that is slowly starting to die (at least it seems like it). I figured if I get a chromebook as a replacement, I would only use it until I could save up enough and get a windows computer (then not use it much after, kind of making it a wasted purchase?), and getting a new laptop would mean I would likely have to go by price instead of looking for a quality product. Thus this has taken me to the desktop computer.

My budget is around $600, I can go over if I need to, but I would prefer not to. Is it possible to get some good parts that would provide me with a couple years of service, and then have the option to upgrade some when I do have a little more money, with my $600 budget? I'm not afraid to build my own computer (though I have never done it before) if it is cheaper than a pre-built version.

I already have mouse/keyboard (as long as I can use Bluetooth) and a monitor, so I wouldn't have to worry about that.

I was looking on Dell's website because they always have some deals going, and they have some pretty cheap/decent desktops that come with windows, are these upgradable?

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Well, it depends exactly what you want to do with it. If you want to game, $600 won't really be enough. I mean, it's a start but for a decent gaming rig you're looking at around $1,000.

So what exactly do you want to do with this desktop?

You can buy a fairly robust but lightweight system from any major pc manufacturer (hp, dell, gateway, etc.) and upgrade components at will over time. The biggest problem with buying a new pc from a standard maker is they almost ALL have Win8 as your only choice of OS and Win8 is pure garbage for gaming (and everything else for that matter). You can go to smaller builders and many, if not most, of them allow you to choose Win7 as the OS which is to be preferred.

Many 'gaming rig' builders are offering "entry level" pc's around 500 bux (monitor, mouse, & keyboard usually NOT included). CyberPowerPC, iBuyPower, and Alienware all have starters in that range.

If you're adventurous, you can build your own machine and for your 600 bux get a pretty tasty machine. But there are risks involved in building your own (if you don't have steady hands, or are lax about tidy workspaces, you could easily cause irreparable damage to components while trying to put stuff together ... that's why I prefer to have a professional build my pc's).

PC Gamer magazine (trip dub pcgamer dot com) has regular articles about building rigs.

I've been building PCs since I was 12. When I built my first PC I didn't have steady hands, nor did I know what I was doing. My first PC never broke and I've been building them ever since. Don't scare the guy with bullshit. You don't need a professional to build a PC.

This is what I came up with real quick:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116946

I never recommend AMD to people. It is cheaper but the performance Intel provides is far superior. With this you can eventually upgrade to the quad core Haswells.

119.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157387

I love ASRock mobos. Been using them for a few years now and they haven't let me down. This is obviously a lower end model and since you won't be overclocking you don't really need to go too big.

74.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148321

Decent harddrive. If you want to run your OS off of an SSD let me know and I'll factor that in.

59.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231514

8GBs of RAM. Should be enough for what you want to do.

74.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121801

Not sure if you plan on doing any video gaming. If so this is a very mid-range card. I'm only suggesting it be cause it's pretty damn cheap.

139.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119262

Cheap but solid PC case. Gives you the option to add more fans if you so choose.

39.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139050

Good PSU, also has a $20 rebate card.

69.99

Grand total, before tax obviously: $579.93. And you might even be able to find them cheaper on pcpartspicker.com. I just used Newegg.

@airshocker: Sorry should have mentioned what I want to use it for. It wouldn't necessarily be a gaming computer, integrated graphics would probably be fine (integrated graphics is enough for most games on low graphics these days, right? Either way it would probably be an upgrade to my nvidia 8600m GT on my laptop). I will mostly use it as a work computer in the near future. The upgrading I mentioned would likely include adding a graphics card/PSU that would support gaming after a few years, if am interested in the option.

I wanted to know if it's possible to purchase parts now, that would be agreeable for an upgrade down the line (with the price point I have). For example, I can only afford such and such type motherboard, will that motherboard support upgrading from integrated graphics to a graphics card, or would I have to spring another $20 for one that would support a graphics card. Same with the tower and anything else I would need (I do realize I would probably need a new PSU if I upgraded certain things).

Like I don't know much about integrated graphics, if I get a PC with integrated graphics, do I need a specific motherboard, or do I just need to change some option in the BIOS that would enable it? Thus when I upgraded to a graphics card that is supported by my motherboard, I could just switch off integrated graphics and choose the graphics card in the BIOS? edit* I'm mostly using the graphics card as an example, if using a graphics card would enhance my every day use then I would be open to purchasing one.

I can get Windows 8.1 at a discount around $70 as I am a student, I cant find Windows 7 for much cheaper than $100, is it worth not worrying about the version of windows (I have used windows 7 at school for years, so I'm not unfamiliar with it, but I don't know much about windows 8, just people don't like it for some reason)? I have vista so either one would likely be an upgrade.

Well, what I basically parted for you is a light to medium gaming computer. If you're not interested in that I would suggest upping the CPU. The CPU is what gives you the integrated graphics. Obviously the better the CPU, the better performance. I'm a video gamer, so video cards are a must in every single one of my builds.

Graphics cards definitely enhance everyday use. They make web-browsing a little bit faster and will be invaluable if you plan on watching multimedia. Takes the strain off of your CPU.

I'm a big proponent of Win 7. It's far superior to Win 8 in almost every way.

With what I parted for you you will be able to upgrade later on down the road. The PSU won't need to be upgraded unless you go for a real bad boy of a card. For the 260x, though, 500w is more than enough. And it's a Corsair gold rated PSU. Can't beat that.

No need to be rude ... no, I don't need a professional to build a pc for me, I *choose* to have a professional build it for me. I can afford it, and don't want to have to spend time winkling out issues and I am massively risk averse ... I've been gaming on PCs for 2 decades pally, so I'm sure I've been around the block as much if not more than thee. I've broken stuff trying to upgrade my PCs (I remember upgrading to a 2400 baud internal modem and breaking something inside the pc case because I did not know what I was doing). Rolling your own if fine if you put the time and effort into researching components to be sure that part A works with part B. There are guides online, but again you have to put the time and effort into finding & reading & comprehending such. It can be fun if you are a hands-on kind of person, but not everybody wants to go that way.

So my advice is fine for the OP. Just coz it doesn't trip your trigger doesn't make it wrong.

@airshocker: Thanks a lot for the help! I'll take a look at that information. From the small amount I have read about computers, doesn't AMD have better integrated graphics? Though if I were to go that path would I need a new motherboard? Do motherboards support both the AMD and Intel?

I see the graphics card as a luxury right now, but it shouldn't be too hard to upgrade to similar card down the road, no?

PCpartpicker.com is the place that you can use to make sure the parts are compatible with each other and helps with deals too, right?

It's not rude to call something you say bullshit. It's the internet and people will disagree with you. Get over it.

You make it sound like simply sticking your hand inside your PC will break something. That is simply not the case. PC parts are made to be sturdy. They're made to be handled. I've dropped my video card down the stairs before and it was fine. Obviously I wouldn't suggest doing that, but you get the point.

You don't need to know anything about PCs to put one together. There are a PLETHORA of guides online that tell you exactly what to do. With pictures and videos and everything. So again, stop trying to scare the guy.

I think I'd generally agree with you & your recommendations for those that want to 'roll your own' ... don't know if this matters, but wanted to clarify that "integrated graphics" generally means a graphic chipset "integrated" on the motherboard, not in the cpu itself.

I like this website for comparing video cards: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/ ... it enables you to compare relative performance between different cards more easily (also info on other components is available on other tabs).

Though, if the OP wants to save some time and effort, just buying an off-the-shelf low-cost box should serve him fine. Just about any off the shelf unit can be upgraded by the end user (though not really sure about Dells ... they used to have a really bad rep for proprietary hardware that could only be replaced with Dell-brand components). I've owned HP, Acer, Lenovo, and white box homebrew, and I was able to open them up and change things around at will.

@airshocker: So I have a hypothetical. Let's say I go with the motherboard you recommended and don't get a graphics card. How long would it take for no cards, or a small number, to not be compatible with the motherboard (like if I got a graphics card 5 years down the road). What I am asking is, how quickly do motherboards go out of style and I would need a new one to support graphics cards still being produced.

This same thought could be used for the processor, though if it can support the latest Haswell(?) chips then it likely won't be too limited in that respect?

Also you do think it's worth it spending $30 more on windows 7? As far as I know Microsoft doesn't allow student discounts for windows 7 anymore... (at least they don't advertise it).

Yeah I am in agreement with the people above saying that building your own computer is not risky. It is significantly more economical, if you do screw something up its just an RMA away.

Either way integrated graphics generally speak suck. Like literally even on lowest settings the most recent haswell's are still pretty crap for games (I should know I am dealing with that till my r9 290 finally gets here tomorrow). If anything go for a mid range card (which will be way better than the 8600m you have) just so you can have something you know?

Yah, actually it is rude. Calling my post "bullshit" is not "disagreeing" with me, it's the same as calling me a liar to my face. Not cool.

Nothing I posted was false, misleading or "scary" ... I was not "trying to scare the guy", I was offering reasonable advice and pointing out that there are risks with building your own rig. Maybe 95% of all homebrews go down without a hiccup, but that other 5% is pure frustration. I figure that the guy should at least *know* of the risk, even if it's a *small* risk. Your advice, which I take to be essentially saying "dude ain't nuttin gonna go wrong, just do it" could be construed as potentially misleading optimism in general, or in the case of a worst outcome event, as intentionally egging someone on with bad advice.

I know, because I've been there, that it's frickin easy to blow a card by being unstrapped and unintentionally zapping it with static. I know how easy it is to damage slots and cards if you twitch at the wrong time while trying to make "tab A slide into slot B" with cheap hardware that isn't perfectly aligned. Sure, most little dings won't cause a major failure, but the chance / opportunity / risk is there. I can find hundreds, probably thousands, of posts in various forums on any given day where people are saying "I was building my own rig, got mobo A and RAM B and CPU C and when I put it together it all went titsup" ... this obviously shows that it's fairly easy to screw things up if you're building your own rig and don't know what you're doing.

Given sufficient knowledge about selecting components and how to put them all together in the right manner, then good eyesight, steady hands, and a reasonably clean workspace will greatly enhance the liklihood of a successful outcome. If a person couldn't afford (or was unwilling) to buy replacement components if they accidentally damaged them, I would suggest buying a system off the shelf rather than building his own. The OP stated that he has a limited budget and while he's not looking for a "gaming rig" he may look to upgrade some components at some unspecified point in time down the road, so it makes perfect sense to me to buy an off-the-shelf system. For any major name brand system, all the components have already been verified for compatibility, appropriate device drivers installed, and fresh hardware "burned in" as need. The downside to OTS boxes are limited customizability, can't always pick the coolest looking hardware in your price range, and you generally won't have as much performance per dollar compared to rolling your own.

If you get a decent mobo and CPU, you will be fine in 2 or 3 years. Mine is an Ivy-bridge CPU and it came out last year, even then, it's only 15% behind this years generation Hazwell. Unless AMD starts picking up the competition, I wouldn't expect CPUs to improve drastically for a while yet.

That use to be true, but not so much anymore. You can still find models where the integrated chipset is on the mobo, but now typically you will find that they are putting it in with the CPU itself.

You can get valid copies of Win7 online for around 60 bux. It's all over eBay.

Good build but you can get for the same money a bit better HDD

either this http://www.amazon.com/WD-Blue-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1386655343&sr=8-2&keywords=western+digital+1tb

or add 1.5$ if you insist on Seagate http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST1000DM003/dp/B005T3GRNW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386655464&sr=8-1&keywords=barracuda+1tb

the change is in the Cache memory instead of 32 it's 64

I don't see graphics cards deviating from PCI-E anytime soon. Of course, anything could happen, but I sincerely doubt it. The most you'd have to worry about is bottlenecking which happens when you have a significantly more powerful card than the processor.

The motherboard is socket 1150. Eventually there will be a new socketed motherboard. For this price point you really aren't getting off too bad. Once the new socket mobos come out you'll have to change your motherboard if you want to upgrade further.

The point is, the only thing that will require a change in your motherboard is if you get a new processor that isn't socket 1150.

Yes, Windows 7 is MUCH better.

Not anymore. At least not for Intel chips. Most integrated graphics are now run through the CPU.

I think I'm going to try to survive for the next few months until I have a little more of a budget to build something though. I'll probably be back sometime in the upcoming year. Thanks for all the advice though guys, I'll try to get a build down before starting the topic next time so you can critique my choices instead of telling me what to get.