How multiplatform gaming has changed the face of PC gaming

I hopped over to PC.gamespy today and the frontpage of the PC section displayed exactly why I dislike multiplatform gaming, and how it's changed the face of PC gaming. Take a look:

What's on the front page?

The Agency: PC/PS3 MMO in development (being developed by Sony so will be made to utilize PS3 capabilities first and foremost)

BioShock: PC/360 game in development.

Shadowrun: PC/360 game (360 version better)

Resident Evil 4: PS2 -> PC port (review states: "Clearly a rushed port")

Halo 2: 360 -> PC port (360 version better)

Fallout 3: PC/360 game in development.

The Top 10 column is a nostalgic trip down memory lane in quality PC gaming of the past. As for the Game of the Month (LOTRO), iti sn't really worth mentioning because it's an ongoing column, not a new exciting feature talking about advancements in PC gaming. The Modify column simply talks about unofficial mods for a 2.5 year old PC game.

That's how multiplatform gaming has changed the face of PC gaming. Where are the new titles focussed on PC gamers and their preferred platform? Games clearly developed for the PC, not the consoles?

All you gamers who claim multiplatform gaming doesn't affect the quality of PC games need to take that picture above and make it your Windows Vista background. That's the new face of PC gaming, whether we like it or not. Personally I do not.

edit: editted to replace a bunch of spaces eaten by the forum.

Oh I don't pretend that multiplatform doesn't ruin gaming, in the past games such as invisible war have been seen to have been dumbed down for console breatheren. I agree with this, that doesn't mean that console games are in general dumb or that pc games are always better. It's simply a case of two different control schemes and expectations. Developers who ignore this (hi ubisoft) churn out ports with little care for how they translate.

Ports/Multiplatform is the future in my eyes, big publishing studios need the different platforms to make money with the huge budges. It's another question all together whether they are using money wisely. But getting away from them, forcing them to produce PC only titles is an unlikely scenario. I'd like to see more situations where there are different approaches using the different platforms but of course that's extra money that publishers would rather not spend

I guess I might sound elitist hoping that dev teams create some pc only titles but I'm sure ps3 or 360 fans feel the same way.

I hopped over to PC.gamespy today and the frontpage of the PC section displayed exactly why I dislike multiplatform gaming, and how it's changed the face of PC gaming. Take a look:

What's on the front page?

The Agency: PC/PS3 MMO in development (being developed by Sony so will be made to utilize PS3 capabilities first and foremost)

BioShock: PC/360 game in development.

Shadowrun: PC/360 game (360 version better)

Resident Evil 4: PS2 -> PC port (review states: "Clearly a rushed port")

Halo 2: 360 -> PC port (360 version better)

Fallout 3: PC/360 game in development.

The Top 10 column is a nostalgic trip down memory lane in quality PC gaming of the past. As for the Game of the Month (LOTRO), iti sn't really worth mentioning because it's an ongoing column, not a new exciting feature talking about advancements in PC gaming. The Modify column simply talks about unofficial mods for a 2.5 year old PC game.

That's how multiplatform gaming has changed the face of PC gaming. Where are the new titles focussed on PC gamers and their preferred platform? Games clearly developed for the PC, not the consoles?

All you gamers who claim multiplatform gaming doesn't affect the quality of PC games need to take that picture above and make it your Windows Vista background. That's the new face of PC gaming, whether we like it or not. Personally I do not.

edit: editted to replace a bunch of spaces eaten by the forum.

sircyrus

who said Halo 2 is better on Xbox 360?

and multiplatform games doesn't hurt anyone - Bioshock, Fallout 3 should be great games

Its what I like to call the lowest common denominator effect (LCD effect).

PC gamers are enthusiests. Sure, we have our share of idiots and graphic whoresbut the fact is we put a lot of effort into our games, we are the gourmands of the video gaming public. One day we might play Crysis, then an hour later we will load up Fallout 2 for the hundredth time.

Console gamers have their share of diehard gamers, but the fact is they just want to put in a plastic disk and mash buttons while staring at what they are told are superior graphics (maybe superior, if theyre on a 2500 dollar TV). I cant remember the last time I was entertained thoroughly on a typical console game; Halo 2 put me to sleep, FFXII felt like a really stupid anime movie, etc.

So where does that leave the PC gamer? High and dry, as the publishers make the developers create games so that your little eight year old cousin can play Oblivion, a game that if released solely for PC would have been deep and complex.

Things were better when they were "seperate but equal." I liked it when I played Dark Forces and C&C at my house thengo over to my friends house and play Contra and Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles on his NES. This division is still alive to day with games such as Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero, but the fact is the titles with the rich tradtions are getting multi-platformed and ruined.

who said Halo 2 is better on Xbox 360?PredatorRules

and multiplatform games doesn't hurt anyone - Bioshock, Fallout 3 should be great gamesPredatorRules

Everyone always hopes for the best when a big game is developed as a multiplatform title,but the track record has mostly been that PC users end up getting the shaft. The game gets dumbed down and we get yet another underwhelming title leaving us with the "imagine what it could have been like" feeling. Console gamers, on the other hand, seem to be thrilled with the result because their style of gaming (yes, there is a difference between the 2 and no, neither is superior... they're just different) is what the game was designed for.

I hopped over to PC.gamespy today and the frontpage of the PC section displayed exactly why I dislike multiplatform gaming, and how it's changed the face of PC gaming. Take a look:

(Image removed)

What's on the front page?

The Agency: PC/PS3 MMO in development (being developed by Sony so will be made to utilize PS3 capabilities first and foremost)

BioShock: PC/360 game in development.

Shadowrun: PC/360 game (360 version better)

Resident Evil 4: PS2 -> PC port (review states: "Clearly a rushed port")

Halo 2: 360 -> PC port (360 version better)

Fallout 3: PC/360 game in development.

The Top 10 column is a nostalgic trip down memory lane in quality PC gaming of the past. As for the Game of the Month (LOTRO), iti sn't really worth mentioning because it's an ongoing column, not a new exciting feature talking about advancements in PC gaming. The Modify column simply talks about unofficial mods for a 2.5 year old PC game.

That's how multiplatform gaming has changed the face of PC gaming. Where are the new titles focussed on PC gamers and their preferred platform? Games clearly developed for the PC, not the consoles?

All you gamers who claim multiplatform gaming doesn't affect the quality of PC games need to take that picture above and make it your Windows Vista background. That's the new face of PC gaming, whether we like it or not. Personally I do not.

sircyrus

You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?sircyrus

I agree it's a problem. Deus Ex, Thief, Longest Journey, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, Sea Dogs, ElderScrolls... just some of the franchises consoles killed in last 5 years (not to mention the ones they have stolen and then killed like Crimson skies, Mechwarrior , Links or Midtown Maddness). I'm not surprised, the costs of making and marketing console games nowadays are enormous, publishers desperately look for new cheap games to put on the market, hence ports, multiplatforms, big companies making XBLA games etc. I don't care as long as PC version doesn't suffer( ie..it's made first, and console one is just a port), but that's often not the case.

Now how will the future look for Pcgamers? IMO it will all depend on how much you like those preety graphics. If they are only a bonus then the future is bright. if they are very important you're in trouble. Because with growing costs of development few big companies can afford to stay exclusive. Sure PC dev and marketing costs are petite in comparision to console ones, but they still are quite large. Of course there will always be some good big-budgeted exclusives, either by accident, or they might be from the genres that simply don't work on consoles(like sims, tactical shooters or the complex strategy games) or simply be too demanding for consoles to handle. But aside from strategy genre those big-budgeted exclusives will be in minority.
Now if you can be satisfied with just good/preety/nice graphics then the future looks bright.

There are tons of small devs on PC, teams of 5-30 people. Too small to make it in console realm, they will never be able to secure the funding they need. The games they can afford to make will apeal to niche crowd and at the same time have too low production values to interest console publishers. So they will stay exclusive, because they simply can't make it in console realm. Unless you have 100+ persons team and 10mln$ budget you have no buisness trying to make it in console area. It's already happening, the racing sims and puzzle games rebirth. The ongoing ressurection of 2D platformers, economic games, turn-based strategy, adventure games and simulators. And it looks like RPGs might follow soon. The only genre left out will be FPSes, as they do tend to require big budgets, altough even there PC tactical shooters are likely to stay exclusive (as they would loose Pc userbase and on consoles they still wouldn't make it against Ubisoft) or some niche games(especialy Steam ones).

[QUOTE="sircyrus"]You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?JN_Fenrir

ANGRY RANT MODE:

Oh...drop this excuse. I hate when console kids whine "bu..bu...but you can't prove it"

Yeah...I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that when PC-only franchise goes to PC/360 multiplatform development it gets dumbed down EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME!

Yeah... I'm sure all those devs are just in suicidal mood and they all decide to kill their sales (as they always sell worse on pC than previous ones) and it obviously has NOTHING to do with the fact that this dumbing down makes games sell better on consoles.

But we don't have a proof, so let's assume it's magic. Yep, but since this magic happens EVERY SINGlE TIME, it's only natural to expect it to happen again, so we all just want our beloved franchises to stay exclusive, so that magic has no chance of happening

ANGRY RANT MODEOFF

[QUOTE="JN_Fenrir"][QUOTE="sircyrus"]You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?AdrianWerner

ANGRY RANT MODE:

Oh...drop this excuse. I hate when console kids whine "bu..bu...but you can't prove it"

Yeah...I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that when PC-only franchise goes to PC/360 multiplatform development it gets dumbed down EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME!

Yeah... I'm sure all those devs are just in suicidal mood and they all decide to kill their sales (as they always sell worse on pC than previous ones) and it obviously has NOTHING to do with the fact that this dumbing down makes games sell better on consoles.

But we don't have a proof, so let's assume it's magic. Yep, but since this magic happens EVERY SINGlE TIME, it's only natural to expect it to happen again, so we all just want our beloved franchises to stay exclusive, so that magic has no chance of happening

ANGRY RANT MODEOFF

Series die or degrade, that's just part of life. Worms killed itself on the PC, as did the X-Wing series, Krondor series, Heroes of Might and Magic, and more. Even good series like Jedi Knight ends eventually. Yes, some series die when they go multiplatform, but I think that's more about them getting gready and losing focus on the gamers than it is about going to two platforms. There are a lot of good series that degraded on its own without consoles' help. The rate does seem to be higher on multiplatform series, though.

But I don't think GTA or C&C3 died from going multiplatform, quite the reverse. And certainly going multiplatform has increased the budgets of many developers, meaning we get better graphics quicker than we would otherwise.

Well Rainbow Six IS dumbed down, just look at vegas and compare it to older REAL r6 games(lockdown doesn't count)

I agree with the creator of this thread, multi-platform gaming has had a detrimental effect on PC gaming and the quality of these games.

While this may not be a direct consequence of multi-platform gaming, it's a certainty as an indirect effect. The raw number of PC franchises (all those mentioned before) had strong backing by PC gamers, but we turned our back on them when they turned their back on us.

It's true what was said about the larger companies having the financial incentive to reach a large portion of the market (hence multiplatforming), but for how long will gamers (both PC and console) put up with the resultant half-arsed games? PC games have suffered, and while the big companies are profiteering, we are left with a sense of lost satisfaction. I used to be an avid gamer (PC), but in recent years, I haven't found the motivation to game anywhere near as much because of the quality of PC games. Every 6 months a decent (enough) game will be released that has me interested (Crysis, Starcraft 2, ¿Spore?, Call of duty 4 (hopefully) --- notice that these games are all PC-exclusive...for now, at least), but I feel that is what PC gaming has been reduced to...playing the numerous pieces of crap that are fed to us as multi-platforms while we hold out in hope that the next big PC-exclusive title will be worth the wait. That's not what gaming should be about. Gaming should be about having a bunch of great titles to pick from, and being forced to choose how to spend your money, and not "dammit, I've got extra money, I guess I'll buy one of these fruitless games like RS:V (a fair disappointment to me after my love of the earlier games).

I argue that the bigger gaming producers (EA stands out the most) are slowly ruining PC gaming with their shoddy games, and soon PC gaming will only be a legend....not because consoles are better, not because PC games are so easily pirateable, but rather because PC games are no longer the revolutionary, action-packed, thought-provoking, riveting-storylined pieces of entertainment that they once were.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="JN_Fenrir"][QUOTE="sircyrus"]You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?JN_Fenrir

ANGRY RANT MODE:

Oh...drop this excuse. I hate when console kids whine "bu..bu...but you can't prove it"

Yeah...I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that when PC-only franchise goes to PC/360 multiplatform development it gets dumbed down EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME!

Yeah... I'm sure all those devs are just in suicidal mood and they all decide to kill their sales (as they always sell worse on pC than previous ones) and it obviously has NOTHING to do with the fact that this dumbing down makes games sell better on consoles.

But we don't have a proof, so let's assume it's magic. Yep, but since this magic happens EVERY SINGlE TIME, it's only natural to expect it to happen again, so we all just want our beloved franchises to stay exclusive, so that magic has no chance of happening

ANGRY RANT MODEOFF

Yes, yes exactly.

Tomb Raider has become a fruitless sequel
Grand Theft Auto used to be one of the greatest series of games, but has no become a console-friendly, unimaginatively repetitious and boringly inept series with no future on the PC (note: GTA4 isn't even a PC game now)
Doom was rated on many websites as "the best FPS of all time", but now has become 'just another FPS', with people asking questions like "should I buy Doom or The Sims?"
Hitman - I'm a big fan of the hitman series, and I can't honestly complain much about multiplatforming of it.
Rainbow Six --- gee, where to start. A GREAT GREAT franchise gone to pits, lacking imagination and reproducing old ideas with newer 'better graphics and gameplay' that is poorly optimized and woefully unfinished.
Medal of Honor - used to be one of those titles that bestowed fear upon some of us PC users because it would mean numerous hours would be wasted away in front of our computers as soon as the next MoH game was released. Now I ask you, what's the name of the next MoH game? Airline paratrooper or something. hmmm
Unreal - Has always been a bit repetitive, but now has been dumbed down completely to accommodate the poor controls that consoles offer to FPS gaming. Aim assist is not something that should EVER be a part of FPS gaming, but the unreal games have taken a backward step in that regard.
Prince of Persia - never played it, can't comment
Need For Speed - OMFG, are you kidding me? I spent hundreds/thousands of hours playing the early NFS titles, but now the NFS games are being churned out one per year. Underground, Underground 2, Most Wanted, Most Wanted 2...gee, how original. NFS has lost it's appeal to me and I know many other people feel the same way. NFS used to be about the great racing and skilful car control around corners...now it's a game meant for people who want to practice building a car, and then put it to the test against challengers or opponents of a poorly thought-out story.

So yes, I do claim that most (not all) of the titles you mentioned have found their way to the toilet recently, with the help of multi-platform gaming!

Every PC game franchise that goes multi-platform gets dumbed down? Really? Oh, you must mean games like: - Tomb Raider - Grand Theft Auto - Doom - Hitman - Rainbow Six - Medal of Honor - Unreal - Prince of Persia - Need For Speed Yeah, all those series really ended up in the toilet, didn't they?JN_Fenrir

Yes. Every PC franchise that gets multiplatform developed sequel gets dumbed down



Tomb Raider- never a PC-only franchise



Grand Theft Auto - never a PC-only franchise



Doom - not only it was never a PC-only franchise, but Doom3 not only was dissapointing, but console version was a port of Pc one, they weren't developed right alongside eachother



Hitman - definitly. The first one was unpolished, but it was the only one with really big levels and the only one that forced you to play stealthy, every later Hitman game can be passed by going run and gun



Rainbow Six -are you serious? :D When the series was PC centric is was marvelous tactical shooter, with amazing depth and realism. Now look at Vegas, silly shallow arcade shooter that has more in common with Call of Duty than Rogue Spear







Unreal - how do you know? I mean UT3 will be the first UT game developed as multiplaform title. Since you have a crystal ball, can I ask what the numbers for lottery will be next week?



Medal of Honor -Considering this is console franchise first and the only PC MOH games so far have been PC only, I wonder..another prophecy from you?



Prince of Persia- never a pc only franchise, plus SoT is completely diffrent game, sharing only name and setting



Need For Speed - yeah, because that's so much of a PC only franchise :)

please, give me even one example of Pc only franchise that didn't get dumbed down when the sequel was developed as multiplatform game

I don't have problem with consoles getting ports from PC, because this way consoles can't make the game crappy. But when the game is designed for pc and consoles at the same time? Yeah..it has to cater to the lowest common dominator

oh no... companies want to make more money so they make games for consoles and PC now.... they've betrayed us.

get over it, these companies never made games with the player in mind and the ones that do will continue to make great games for the PC.

some of you guys act like creating your own PC and adding some patches to a game makes you a better gamer...it doesn't.

It's funny the games that most of you list as being "dumbed down for consoles" bombed on consoles as well. Deus Ex andthe Theif series are pretty much dead for making crappy sequels that didn't sell much on PC or console. in fact the only series that you guys list that profited from "dumbing down" was The Elder Scrolls.

and you know what other series madea large profit by upping the graphics and downing the RPG elements? Final Fantasy VII & Fable. It just so happens that when an RPG is more action and shiny effects rather than stats and role playing, the game sells well no matter if it was a console only game ora PC/Console game release.

so actually the real culprit here is greed. I have faith that Bioshock is going to be a great game even if Irrational games made it for the DS and PC. Fallout 3 is going to be bashed as long as it doesn't have Black Isles on the box. Shadowrun had no chance in hell of being a great game if it was made solely for PC... these have nothing to do with consoles

I just wish developers would stop making MMOs. I'm really getting sick and tired that every new RPG announced is a stupid MMO - bring back the offline single-player RPGs FFS!!RobertBowen

Rainbow Six -are you serious? :D When the series was PC centric is was marvelous tactical shooter, with amazing depth and realism. Now look at Vegas, silly shallow arcade shooter that has more in common with Call of Duty than Rogue SpearAdrianWerner

Games being multi-platform don't bother me in theory, just as long as they remain fun. To this day, there are console games that I wouldn't mind seeing on the PC (racers, etc). However, when PC games become multi-platform, there is a strong precedent with the game being "dumbed" down. The one that bothered me the most is Deus Ex, I personally thought the "consolized" sequel was worth playing, but it was by far inferior to the PC original!

I guess I'm not quite as pessimistic as alot of you (e.g. I don't care that Bioshock is multi, just make it good :)), but good post OP.

oh no... companies want to make more money so they make games for consoles and PC now.... they've betrayed us.

get over it, these companies never made games with the player in mind and the ones that do will continue to make great games for the PC.

smerlus is the king :D

We must understand that people will always seek the easy way. Both companies and customers.
" Gaming? Why should I trouble with that OS and all these buttons on the keyboard + I need to make sure my hardware is 100% compatible" - a non gamer's thought.
"Developing games? Why should I trouble with all these hardware configuration + if it won't be a graphics-whore I won't get support from hardware-companies but if it won't look too good all the high-end users will start to complain their hardware isn't utilized well!" - a game developer's thought.

Anyway, it is true PC gaming has changed, but why take it as a bad change? Some games are simpler than others, dumbed down as you call it, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. And if you insist about complex and deep games (hey I love those kinds of games, too!) you can always go back to older games, or maybe just look around for newer releases. Many games have their type of complexion and you just need to find it. (Hitman can be played both in the dumbed-down way of blasting your way around or doing it in the stealthy way, where you can find a huge amount of variety).

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="JN_Fenrir"][QUOTE="sircyrus"]You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?JN_Fenrir

ANGRY RANT MODE:

Oh...drop this excuse. I hate when console kids whine "bu..bu...but you can't prove it"

Yeah...I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that when PC-only franchise goes to PC/360 multiplatform development it gets dumbed down EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME!

Yeah... I'm sure all those devs are just in suicidal mood and they all decide to kill their sales (as they always sell worse on pC than previous ones) and it obviously has NOTHING to do with the fact that this dumbing down makes games sell better on consoles.

But we don't have a proof, so let's assume it's magic. Yep, but since this magic happens EVERY SINGlE TIME, it's only natural to expect it to happen again, so we all just want our beloved franchises to stay exclusive, so that magic has no chance of happening

ANGRY RANT MODEOFF

Some of those games were already dumbed down to begin with, or the mechanics were simple enough from the start that they didnt need simplifying. Hell, the GTA3, Prince of Persia, and Tomb Raider series almost seemed birthed on the console so they were dumbed down to begin with, and how are you going to dumb down first person shooters like Doom and MoH...FPSs are fun, but they arent exactly created for geniuses.

But just look at Rainbow Six...look at what it used to be on PC, and now look at what it is now. Vegas was fun, but it wasnt as fun as the first three (?) games with the tactical planning and realism. I think they tried to port the older games as well in their original form and they sold horribly. Then comes lockdown, which did all right, and Vegas which was insanely successful. They did the same thing with the Ghost Recon franchise as well.

I know man, all the big PC developers are selling out to consoles, it's rather sad.J4y_97

*Cough*Epic*Cough*UT3*cough*

I see it as the big companies want to bully us into buying their stuff! As I see it those game devs are sell are sell outs. I have no respect for them or mirco soft. Image is very thing to a company.we as players can make or break a company. We as player don't have to buy their games. We can give bad repuations.

we don't need to buy dum cheap products

But just look at Rainbow Six...look at what it used to be on PC, and now look at what it is now. Vegas was fun, but it wasnt as fun as the first three (?) games with the tactical planning and realism. I think they tried to port the older games as well in their original form and they sold horribly. Then comes lockdown, which did all right, and Vegas which was insanely successful. They did the same thing with the Ghost Recon franchise as well.

mrbojangles25

The R6 series was in decline way before Vegas reared its head, Ubisoft had to reinvent the series because everyone was complaining about the same old gameplay.

There's simply nothing else like Rainbow 6 vegas on the console so i don't see how you can say it's dumbed down for consoles. i would understand if they turned it into timesplitters but in actuality they made an action intensive tactical shooter and just ported it terribly to PC

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

But just look at Rainbow Six...look at what it used to be on PC, and now look at what it is now. Vegas was fun, but it wasnt as fun as the first three (?) games with the tactical planning and realism. I think they tried to port the older games as well in their original form and they sold horribly. Then comes lockdown, which did all right, and Vegas which was insanely successful. They did the same thing with the Ghost Recon franchise as well.

smerlus

The R6 series was in decline way before Vegas reared its head, Ubisoft had to reinvent the series because everyone was complaining about the same old gameplay.

There's simply nothing else like Rainbow 6 vegas on the console so i don't see how you can say it's dumbed down for consoles. i would understand if they turned it into timesplitters but in actuality they made an action intensive tactical shooter and just ported it terribly to PC

Actually it is quite a good port...good controls, better visuals, and it is stable and decently optimised. Its just that they took the tactical part out of it imo, gave it a CoD/Halo/GearsofWar style health system, and added some neat things like a cover system (that made the game insanely easy, imo).

Listen, Vegas is a good game, I have a blast with it and co-op mode is insanely fun on my roommates 360...but it just isnt what it used to be, thats all. If you want to make Vegas-type games, fine, but dont abandon the original recipe entirely.

I see it as the big companies want to bully us into buying their stuff! As I see it those game devs are sell are sell outs. I have no respect for them or mirco soft. Image is very thing to a company.we as players can make or break a company. We as player don't have to buy their games. We can give bad repuations.

we don't need to buy dum cheap products

blackdreamhunk

The top selling PC games are usually MMOs and RTS games. Some developers really don't have a choise but to go multi plat if they want high sales.The main goal of this business is to make money. Imagine if all games maxed out with a 6800 card? How will nvidia, amd and intel etc get you to buy new hardware and you know hardware changes on a monthly basis.

[QUOTE="blackdreamhunk"]

I see it as the big companies want to bully us into buying their stuff! As I see it those game devs are sell are sell outs. I have no respect for them or mirco soft. Image is very thing to a company.we as players can make or break a company. We as player don't have to buy their games. We can give bad repuations.

Deihmos

The top selling PC games are usually MMOs and RTS games. Some developers really don't have a choise but to go multi plat if they wanttohigh sales.The main goalof this business is to make money. Imagine if all gamesmaxed out with a 6800 card? How will nvidia, amd and intel etcget you to buynew hardware and you know hardware changes on a monthly basis.

please don't give me that bull if the player base likes the game they will support it, look at interplay and starwars online

we don't need to buy dum cheap products

you want to know where console game company intenations are look at spriderman when it came out on console and pc. Big exploreable maps for console and junk for pc.

Pc gamers have higher standards than console junk

The R6 series was in decline way before Vegas reared its head, Ubisoft had to reinvent the series because everyone was complaining about the same old gameplay.smerlus

Not really. the decline started only with Lockdown, ie when it was switched to primarly console franchise

There's simply nothing else like Rainbow 6 vegas on the console so i don't see how you can say it's dumbed down for consoles.smerlus

Because it's more simplier and more arcade than Rogue Spear or Raven Shield?

i would understand if they turned it into timesplitters but in actuality they made an action intensive tactical shooter and just ported it terribly to PC

smerlus

Actualy Vegas does have more in common with arcade shooters than tactical ones. it's closer to Freedom Fighters than to Raven Shield

[QUOTE="Deihmos"][QUOTE="blackdreamhunk"]

I see it as the big companies want to bully us into buying their stuff! As I see it those game devs are sell are sell outs. I have no respect for them or mirco soft. Image is very thing to a company.we as players can make or break a company. We as player don't have to buy their games. We can give bad repuations.

blackdreamhunk

The top selling PC games are usually MMOs and RTS games. Some developers really don't have a choise but to go multi plat if they wanttohigh sales.The main goalof this business is to make money. Imagine if all gamesmaxed out with a 6800 card? How will nvidia, amd and intel etcget you to buynew hardware and you know hardware changes on a monthly basis.

please don't give me that bull if the player base likes the game they will support it, look at interplay and starwars online

we don't need to buy dum cheap products

You miss my point. It's all about the benjamins

[QUOTE="Deihmos"][QUOTE="blackdreamhunk"]

I see it as the big companies want to bully us into buying their stuff! As I see it those game devs are sell are sell outs. I have no respect for them or mirco soft. Image is very thing to a company.we as players can make or break a company. We as player don't have to buy their games. We can give bad repuations.

blackdreamhunk

The top selling PC games are usually MMOs and RTS games. Some developers really don't have a choise but to go multi plat if they wanttohigh sales.The main goalof this business is to make money. Imagine if all gamesmaxed out with a 6800 card? How will nvidia, amd and intel etcget you to buynew hardware and you know hardware changes on a monthly basis.

please don't give me that bull if the player base likes the game they will support it, look at interplay and starwars online

we don't need to buy dum cheap products

you want to know where console game company intenations are look at spriderman when it came out on console and pc. Big exploreable maps for console and junk for pc.

Pc gamers have higher standards than console junk

Spiderman? Who buys a game like Spiderman ona PC and frankly I don't know why they wasted their time releasing it in the first place. There are certain games you just don't buy for PC...ninja turtles, pirates of the caribbean and those type games aren't for PC.

[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

But just look at Rainbow Six...look at what it used to be on PC, and now look at what it is now. Vegas was fun, but it wasnt as fun as the first three (?) games with the tactical planning and realism. I think they tried to port the older games as well in their original form and they sold horribly. Then comes lockdown, which did all right, and Vegas which was insanely successful. They did the same thing with the Ghost Recon franchise as well.

mrbojangles25

The R6 series was in decline way before Vegas reared its head, Ubisoft had to reinvent the series because everyone was complaining about the same old gameplay.

There's simply nothing else like Rainbow 6 vegas on the console so i don't see how you can say it's dumbed down for consoles. i would understand if they turned it into timesplitters but in actuality they made an action intensive tactical shooter and just ported it terribly to PC

Actually it is quite a good port...good controls, better visuals, and it is stable and decently optimised. Its just that they took the tactical part out of it imo, gave it a CoD/Halo/GearsofWar style health system, and added some neat things like a cover system (that made the game insanely easy, imo).

Listen, Vegas is a good game, I have a blast with it and co-op mode is insanely fun on my roommates 360...but it just isnt what it used to be, thats all. If you want to make Vegas-type games, fine, but dont abandon the original recipe entirely.

i heard 2 of my friends that have it for PC say it plays horrible on PC, of course it could just be their computers. plus i've seen that it has lower ratings so i just assumed it was a sloppy port.

[QUOTE="PredatorRules"]who said Halo 2 is better on Xbox 360?sircyrus

What that means is that the reviews for Halo 2 on Xbox are better, it doesn't necessarily make the game better on the Xbox. It might have been better on the Xbox when it came out, compared to how it is on the PC when it came out.

But a game that has improved graphics, more control options and whatever else you can think of is a better game.

I have it on Vista as well as Xbox but for me it seems to crash all the time, which I'm not sure is the game, the operating system, or the hardware.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

But just look at Rainbow Six...look at what it used to be on PC, and now look at what it is now. Vegas was fun, but it wasnt as fun as the first three (?) games with the tactical planning and realism. I think they tried to port the older games as well in their original form and they sold horribly. Then comes lockdown, which did all right, and Vegas which was insanely successful. They did the same thing with the Ghost Recon franchise as well.

smerlus

The R6 series was in decline way before Vegas reared its head, Ubisoft had to reinvent the series because everyone was complaining about the same old gameplay.

There's simply nothing else like Rainbow 6 vegas on the console so i don't see how you can say it's dumbed down for consoles. i would understand if they turned it into timesplitters but in actuality they made an action intensive tactical shooter and just ported it terribly to PC

Actually it is quite a good port...good controls, better visuals, and it is stable and decently optimised. Its just that they took the tactical part out of it imo, gave it a CoD/Halo/GearsofWar style health system, and added some neat things like a cover system (that made the game insanely easy, imo).

Listen, Vegas is a good game, I have a blast with it and co-op mode is insanely fun on my roommates 360...but it just isnt what it used to be, thats all. If you want to make Vegas-type games, fine, but dont abandon the original recipe entirely.

i heard 2 of my friends that have it for PC say it plays horrible on PC, of course it could just be their computers. plus i've seen that it has lower ratings so i just assumed it was a sloppy port.

I played R6 on both 360 and PC and it played fine on the PC. My only gripe was it not having any voice support on the PC.

[QUOTE="PredatorRules"]who said Halo 2 is better on Xbox 360?sircyrus

most of the gripes are because it's Vista only, it's $50, and the fact that the Xbox had it for 3 years.

Most long time PC Gamers would agree that multiplatform development has hurt PC Gaming. It's mostly console gamers, or predominantly console gamers that game on the PC occasionally that might not understand. We all know why mulitplatform development exists, that's not what's in question, it's the amount of quality PC titles that are built with the PC in mind, and how that effects the end user's experience. That's a perfectly sound question to ask, especially if someone has been gaming on PC most of their life. There's no question that fewer and fewer games are being made with the PC as the main platform with consoles as an afterthought. Many PC developers are now making games for consoles, with the PC as an afterthought. This poses a problem in not only in interface issues, but longer development time. Are UT fans waiting longer due to console development? How about HL2 Ep2? Quake Wars?,even though it's being ported by a different dev team? Do these companies prefer just one release date to coordinate their marketing efforts? These are all valid concerns and in reality, they directly effect PC Gaming.

The biggest lie is that games NEED to go multiplatform in order for companies to become profitable. This simply isn't true. If a game is great, it will sell extremely well on PC most of the time. Publishers are just hedging their bets. When games are mediocre or pure junk, they simply don't sell and piracy is used as an excuse for poor development.

As someone has said before, I simply will not purchase junk games that are simply ports thrown on the PC just to make a few bucks. It's the Publishers that will loose, as I'm not giving them a penny for lousy work. If all games turn into lousy ports, I will simply quit gaming, as quality is already at an all time low.

PS- Anyone who claims the Rainbow Six series hasn't been affected by multiplatform development is either drunk or needs drug counseling.

Tomb Raider- never a PC-only franchise



Grand Theft Auto - never a PC-only franchise



Doom - not only it was never a PC-only franchise, but Doom3 not only was dissapointing, but console version was a port of Pc one, they weren't developed right alongside eachother



Hitman - definitly. The first one was unpolished, but it was the only one with really big levels and the only one that forced you to play stealthy, every later Hitman game can be passed by going run and gun



Rainbow Six -are you serious? :D When the series was PC centric is was marvelous tactical shooter, with amazing depth and realism. Now look at Vegas, silly shallow arcade shooter that has more in common with Call of Duty than Rogue Spear







Unreal - how do you know? I mean UT3 will be the first UT game developed as multiplaform title. Since you have a crystal ball, can I ask what the numbers for lottery will be next week?



Medal of Honor -Considering this is console franchise first and the only PC MOH games so far have been PC only, I wonder..another prophecy from you?



Prince of Persia- never a pc only franchise, plus SoT is completely diffrent game, sharing only name and setting



Need For Speed - yeah, because that's so much of a PC only franchise :)

AdrianWerner

I miss PC exclusives, hell I even miss *timed* PC exclusives. Multiplatforming is a plague that is eating away at the gaming industry, and I don't think many developers are large enough or capable of fighting it off. So we wind up with mediocrity a lot of the time.

I'd also like to point out that multiplatforming adversely affects quality on consoles, too. Readily apparent last gen where almost *all* the top quality games were exclusives (timed, at least) or sequels to exclusives. It is what happens when something is done purely to effect the bottom line during Q-whatever. No-one, who isn't blatently lying, says: "Lets make it multiplatform so it will be *better*!"

I'm sorry, but this whole argument just reeks of mindless fanboy nonsense. Games on all platforms have been getting shorter and less complex over the years as a result of the growing number of casual gamers. Most folks just don't want to sit down and spend 20-25 hours completing a game, or spend an hour walking around talking to NPCs. Developers and publishers know this, and so they tend to create games that are more easily accessible and less daunting for someone who may just want to sit down and blast through a few levels before heading to class. Since all of you experts have been die-hard PC gamers for so long, you probably know that the industry started as a niche, with a fairly small assortment of average-joe developers cranking out games in their living rooms. These were people who were truly dedicated to the craft and genuinely wanted to make the best games they possibly could. Well, the good news is that you don't have to mourn the loss of these artisans because they're still around. John Carmack, Richard Garriott, Peter Molyneux, Warren Spector, Tim Sweeney, Ken Levine... Yes, the industry is still in good hands. And while you've all been so busy complaining about the state of things, you've probably missed the fact that there are hundreds of independent developers who are doing the same thing that today's major eggheads twenty did years ago, and with the same passion. These days, we call these developers "independent", meaning that they've yet to have their works published, but they are still producing quality work. Furthermore, because the PC gaming industry continues to grow, there are actually a lot more of them around today than ever. So before any of you get up on that soapbox and proclaim that your precious platform is somehow falling victim to the success of its competitors -- which is still just the way any market works, and is actually good for consumers because it drives down prices -- I recommend you take a good look at what's actually going on in the industry (I call it reality) and do your homework. And if you want to see longer games with more depth become more prevalent on PC, put your money where your mouth is; get yourself a PayPal account and start supporting some of these independent developers. Stop whining until you've actually examined all the facts.



JN_Fenrir

Thats a very good argument and I think I see what youre getting at, though I see a few problems.

If anything, PC gaming will get more expensive. As more and more consoles eventually get Blueray tech, publishers are not going to want to have to make CDs and DVDs for PC gamers, and Blurays for console gamers...theyre going to want to streamline. So theyre gonna start charging us 60-70 dollars for games...and thats IF they even bother to put the games out for PC (and why would they since no one wants to shell out 500 dollars for a blue ray drive?). Not to mention that, for all 99% of the PC gaming market cares, there is only ONE operating system and if microsoft takes a clue from their sales they will release new OSs every two years with features we HAVE to have in order to play games.

Second, those guys you listed above, theyre getting pretty old. You are correct to say that they have done a lot for the PC gaming community, but they have to retire sometime and since theyre in their 40s or so that isnt too far off...not to mention theyre problably loaded with cash and will either retire early or will just work as "consultants" with minimum input on gaming development.

Where does that leave us? It leaves us with the young bucks, the flashy guys that can present the best tech demos to the richest publishers (who, coincendentally, are rich due to console sales). They wont develop games for the "love of the game" like the old guard does, they do it for the fame and the money. Just imagine John Romero (lead creator of Daikatana)multiplied by 1000 and you might see the potential of a dire future.

And it just so happens that these are the people that obtain the licenses to the games we truly cherish. Do you really expect PC gamers to just keep our mouths closed as every single decent PC game we play gets a sequal that is neutered, mutated, and dumbed down for the sake of a multiplatform release? I dont want to sound overly dramatic, but its almost as if we are rasing this child and then all of a sudden Big Brother comes in and kidnaps him, turning him into a mindless drone to serve the masses.

I agree with you on the independent studios, and they (along with digital distribution programs) are the key to the future, but the consumers can only do so much to find these games. We cant go to our local stores and find these on the shelves, nor can we search online for them since we dont know what to look for. They are the key to the future, but until they start developing titles that actually appeal to people (different for the sake of being different doesnt mean fun) its gonna be really tough for them to get noticed. So far Ive played only two (to my knowledge) independent games, and they were Defcon and Darwinia. And, as bad as it sounds and as enjoyable as those independent games might be, PC gamers should not have to settle for them.

As a PC gamer, I increasingly feel like the black sheep of the family concerning multiplatform releases. I sit down with my Mom and Dad (publisher and developer) and my older Sister (console), and they only feed me out of obligation. They dont really care about my sense of tastes, what Ive done in the past...they just throw me a bone. And as I sit there, I listen to them talking about everything and how great my Sister is and how theyre gonna buy her everything. Maybe I'll go goth and start listening to underground music....

[QUOTE="sircyrus"]You mean great like TES4: Oblivion, Thief 3: The Dark Project,Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, Shadowrun, etc?JN_Fenrir

Some things have to be accepted by faith alone. I don't know that a tree makes a sound in the woods when it falls if I'm not there to hear it..... but I beleive it does.

It's just common sense man. If you have 2 years to create a game, and you spend 6 months just working on code to make it work on 3platforms - that's practically 3 entire games you're making there. Now, take that same equation, take out the variable of the additional platforms, and you suddenly have more time to endorse a singular platform. It's not rocket science. Ever wonder why UT3 isn't out.... YET!? Maybe because it's being made for 3 different platforms? Granted, the engine was used in Gears of War, but... well... hey wait - isn't that an X360 exclusive? Imagine if UT3 was PC exclusive! I'm sure it would be just as good, maybe even better, but we would already be playing it by now.

I'm sorry, but this whole argument just reeks of mindless fanboy nonsense.JN_Fenrir

PC games have traditionally offered a more "hardcore" gaming experience than console games.Many have been longer than console games. Many have had steeper learning curves. PC gamesstrived for realism over arcadey action.

Obviously there are going to be titles which break those rules, but putting the platformsside-by-side I don't believe you'd be able to argue with that assessment. If you feel differently you likely only recently got into PC gaming, or you possibly work for a game studio/publisher that is detatched from the PC gaming community.

Games on all platforms have been getting shorter and less complex over the years as a result of the growing number of casual gamers. Most folks just don't want to sit down and spend 20-25 hours completing a game, or spend an hour walking around talking to NPCs. Developers and publishers know this, and so they tend to create games that are more easily accessible and less daunting for someone who may just want to sit down and blast through a few levels before heading to class.JN_Fenrir

As I mentioned above, PC gaming and console gaming offer different styles. These were kept seperate for years, but now it's becoming the normal thingto do where if you're developing a game you make it for multiple platforms.

Many PC gamers do want to spend 20-25 hours completing a game. I'd prefer to spend more than that. I can't remember ever having to spend an hour walking around talking to NPCs so I don't know where that example comes in. Many many PC gamers don't want games that are designed to provide 15 spurts of entertainment. That design lacks the depth they enjoy, the immersive qualities.

The last part of your last sentence in that paragraph is almost word for word my arguement against multiplatform gaming. Console games are meant to be a source of entertainment where when you have 15 minutes to kill you can throw in a game and go to it. There's nothing wrong with that - or rather there's nothing wrong with that so long as it stays on the platform (console) that style of gaming is geared towards (casual). If I sit down at the PC with the intention of loading up some games I'm going to expect to be there for atleast an hour.

I enjoy games like The Hulk or Mario Party. Prior to this last batch of consoles I've owned almost every console released. However, I also kept my PC up to date because I liked what the games offered in both markets. They were different. I could sit down and play Goldeneye 64 with my friends, then go on my PC and load up Ultima Online. I received 2 very different gaming experiences.

The industry is changing with the games going multiplatform, and the PC gaming is the one that is suffering from that. I'm sorry if that sounds like a fanboy comment, but that's what is happening. The style of PC gaming we have enjoyed in the past is quickly vanishing, being replaced by multiplatform titles designed with the consoles and their preferred playstyle in mind.

As a PC gamer, I increasingly feel like the black sheep of the family concerning multiplatform releases. I sit down with my Mom and Dad (publisher and developer) and my older Sister (console), and they only feed me out of obligation. They dont really care about my sense of tastes, what Ive done in the past...they just throw me a bone. And as I sit there, I listen to them talking about everything and how great my Sister is and how theyre gonna buy her everything. Maybe I'll go goth and start listening to underground music....mrbojangles25