I had never played a game as unfair as Xcom ufo defense.

(Not enemy unknown)

The very first xcom game, recently got it from steam and after a lot of time of tinkering with dosbox I finally got it to run.

I had never played a game as unfair as this one.

The game, in it's initial stages at least, has NO ROOM FOR SKILL, literally, your success is 100% dependant on the random chance of generating levels and enemies.

I actually advanced more in my INTERMEDIATE playthrough than I did in my beginner one, in the beginner playthrough I had 2 ships comming onto me in the first 5 minutes scan.

Then on my very first level, I had 2 aliens, TWO, placed right next to the exit of my skyranger, so as soon as I tried to move a soldier out, they would react, because every single alien has like a 95% of getting 3 reaction shots with 90% accuracy while your guys have like 10 with 20% accuraccy, anyway, those 2 aliens ended up killing 4 guys who tried to get down from the skyranger, the rest made it out, 2 of them died out of fatal injuries in like 2 turns and only managed to take down 1 alien.

I lost, started a new game in hopes of having a better level generated, this time there was no alien outside, I used cover to hid my troops and in the aliens turn, they would shoot me out of nowhere, even from the other side of the map, and 1 shot every one of my soldiers.

some survived, I killed some aliens, then I got the crashed ship, which was extremely small, it was only 1 room with 1 door, as soon as I opened it, I got killed, by 4 aliens inside who took reaction shots, I couldn't even do anything because as soon as I tried to get in from the only entry, they'd kill me, and if I did managed to get a guy in, he'd take 2 shots, miss them and get killed, if 1 guy landed a shot, he wouldn't kill the alien, and if he did, there would still be other 3 that would shoot in the next turn and obviously kill him.

Seriously, what is wrong with this game? maybe skill does plays a role in the late game when you already have your armor and good weapons, but in the beginning at least you are at complete mercy of random generating chance.

Definitely not my kind of game, glad the new one is much better.

If anything, I found the new XCOM to be a lot more RNG heavy.

I typically play on the hardest difficulty, and more often than not, I find myself losing only one or 2 soldiers on the first mission. A good squad composition (talking about equipment here), knowing when to strike (try to aim for daytime), good instinct, and knowing where to position your soldiers and when to use each tool can make a huge difference.

But yes, reaction shots can be a bit cheap, UFOs can be a lot more manageable if you download a certain mod (cant remember if it was Util or Extender) which allowed you to open doors without going through them.

While the game can be awesome missing my 90% shots while the enemy got me with low % shots pissed me off too much to keep playing. Happened way too often.

I'd heard the game was like this so I never tried it. I had the same problem on Enemy Unknown above normal difficulty, being shot by things I couldn't even see yet. It's really annoying. I think I ended up using a mod that overhauled the enemy AI so that wouldn't happen.INF1DEL

Well i havent played the other one but i have spent plenty of time with enemy unknown and Its not cheap. The trick is to be really tatical you really have to creep your ways through the lvls and make sure you have the best possible cover at all times. If you just go in whalf coked and sprint all over the placed you are gonna get reaction shots which are highly likely to hit since you are on the move and you will likely end up in a bad spot once new aliens are located and then proceed to get free moves. So yeah you just have to be really strategic which is the point of the game. IF you are gonna sprint somewhere makesure you have someone else on overwatch cover fire ect

Unfair, lol. That's sad that you look at the game that way. Back when Xcom was new, we would praise difficulty.SKaREO

[QUOTE="SKaREO"]Unfair, lol. That's sad that you look at the game that way. Back when Xcom was new, we would praise difficulty.lightleggy

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="SKaREO"]Unfair, lol. That's sad that you look at the game that way. Back when Xcom was new, we would praise difficulty.SKaREO

Do yourself a big favour...don't get the sequel, Xcom : Terror from the deep. That really is ridiculous on the dice rolls

Uhm, no it's not, look at hard games like battletoads, contra or ninja gaiden, you can't say that any of those are dice rolls, you are in complete control of what happens and in theory you can have a perfect game with the right skill. Now you can't say the same for Xcom, you don't have a word about the initial stats of your troops, you don't have a word in the aliens accuraccy (which is always really high) or reaction shots capabilities, you have no control over anything, you can have your troops behind cover and in the next turn an alien will be able to shoot them from an unknown position when you can't even see them even after the shot, they will kill your troops in 1 shot regardless of cover or position while they can survive up to 3 shots (if you manage to land one) I'm pretty damn sure skill takes over once you get good equipment, but before that you are at complete mercy of the randomness of the game.lightleggy

1. Soldiers are dirt cheap. If you dont like the stats just replace them.
2. Soldier stats dont really matter that much in the first place.

1. Aliens arent nearly accurate as you might think.
2. Wounded aliens are significantly more inacurate.

1. You have MUCH more control in UFO defense than you do in Enemy Unknown, for instance, you have multiple modes of fire, can crouch, move after shooting, shoot multiple times in a single turn.
2. Not to mention, you have much more control over your troops too. In UFO Defense you get to choose what each soldier equips, in Enemy Unknown the RNG does by assigning a random class.
3. In UFO defense, you can aim wherever you want and destroy the environment. 

1. You can see where the bullets fly from
2. Yes, attacking without being seen makes sense, it is called stealth
3. If you cover the area properly this wont happen 

1. As for damage, yes, the RNG there is kinda absurd.
2. But learn to close your distance, I usually have no problems flanking them.

By taking away a lot of the tactical freedom that UFO defense had. I would argue that if anything, it is XCOM ENEMY UNKNOWN that is far more RNG heavy of the 2 games. Enemy Unknown felt a lot more luck based than UFO defense.

You just need different tactics - don't think just because you landed that the area around your craft is safe.

got a guy with a rocket launcher and crap accuracy? just have him fire a rocket out the back of the craft at an area you want to send some soldiers to - if there are any aliens they they should be killed in the blast, or failing that it can kick up enough smoke to conceal the movements on your soldiers.

Chuck smoke grenades or smoke rockets out the back of the craft - again acts to hide your soldiers as they get out of the craft and minimises casualties from overwatch shots.

Have an expendable rookie run down the ramp and spin around to reveal as much of the nearby terrain as possible - looking for possible cover as well as possible hiding locations for aliens.

[QUOTE="INF1DEL"]I'd heard the game was like this so I never tried it. I had the same problem on Enemy Unknown above normal difficulty, being shot by things I couldn't even see yet. It's really annoying. I think I ended up using a mod that overhauled the enemy AI so that wouldn't happen.Gen007

Well i havent played the other one but i have spent plenty of time with enemy unknown and Its not cheap. The trick is to be really tatical you really have to creep your ways through the lvls and make sure you have the best possible cover at all times. If you just go in whalf coked and sprint all over the placed you are gonna get reaction shots which are highly likely to hit since you are on the move and you will likely end up in a bad spot once new aliens are located and then proceed to get free moves. So yeah you just have to be really strategic which is the point of the game. IF you are gonna sprint somewhere makesure you have someone else on overwatch cover fire ect

LOL you make it sound like I play the game like CoD. I know how to play. There isn't always full cover. Even when there is I remember several times being shot by something I couldn't even see yet with incredible accuracy. I lost several people to enemies with no warning and no chance to fight back. I don't remember having this problem on normal but I remeber it happening often on higher difficulties.

I doubt it was meant to be fair early game. It's more a mean of illustrating how unprepared humanity is and immerse you into the dire situation that would be an alien invasion, you can take them down but it's initially very inefficient and costly in lives. That's why it's so ruthless early on and gets ''easier'' as the game progress.

The thing however, is that failure in X-Com isn't the end of the world, it's a setback which you can eventually recover from.

Sounds like you're just bad at the game and need to go back to call of duty my friend.  I personally loved enemy unknown, but it's probably because I love strategy games, I have the mind for it, and I love a challenge.

Sounds like you need some pointers, watch my vid if you want to get better at it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkRa_TSgQs

Edit: I just realized you put "UFO Defense" in the title lol.  Anyway, in alot of cases, you play somewhat similar in the older xcom games.

Hahaha, if you think the first X-COM was unfair try Terror from the Deep.

Yea my 90% shots missing 50% of the time is because of my gaming skill.....some of you are so delusional lol.

While UFO Defense is based around random dice rolls, you need to learn tactics to improve your odds. The game is designed around being able to take heavy losses on soldiers, so don't get too attached to them. The Skyranger can hold up to 14 soldiers for a mission. After I got good at the game, I don't recall ever losing all 14 on any missions to recover small alien UFOs. UFO Defense is very rough on new players, but it's incredibly addicting if you take the time to learn how to play effectively.

It has skill, and that's in how you deal with the poor hand of cards you start off with. It's a game balanced entirely against you at the beginning and demands you to persist in actually seeing it through. That's a huge part of the atmosphere and engagement of the game. Once you start turning the tables you'll feel like it's the best thing ever. The game is a bastard and it's better for it.skrat_01

Yeah, progression felt so satisfying in XCOM. A lot of it is due to the fact that you do start underpowered.

While UFO Defense is based around random dice rolls, you need to learn tactics to improve your odds. The game is designed around being able to take heavy losses on soldiers, so don't get too attached to them. The Skyranger can hold up to 14 soldiers for a mission. After I got good at the game, I don't recall ever losing all 14 on any missions to recover small alien UFOs. UFO Defense is very rough on new players, but it's incredibly addicting if you take the time to learn how to play effectively.

Falconoffury

A lot of the stuff in XCOM that seems really luck based at first can in fact be avoided with good tactics, the low accuracy in the beginning may sting, But there are ways to get around that, such as getting closer or using explosives. I usually find myself losing not that many troops in the first mission even on the highest setting.

I dunno about you, but early on in XCOM, I rely heavily on explosives (auto cannon with HE/Grenades/Rocket Luancher) to make up for poor accuracy, of course there are more tactics too, but explosives tends to be very effective in many situations in early XCOM: UFO Defense and certainly is a lot easier than destroying the map to create paths to flank the aliens.

Yea my 90% shots missing 50% of the time is because of my gaming skill.....some of you are so delusional lol.

vfibsux

[QUOTE="lightleggy"] Uhm, no it's not, look at hard games like battletoads, contra or ninja gaiden, you can't say that any of those are dice rolls, you are in complete control of what happens and in theory you can have a perfect game with the right skill. Now you can't say the same for Xcom, you don't have a word about the initial stats of your troops, you don't have a word in the aliens accuraccy (which is always really high) or reaction shots capabilities, you have no control over anything, you can have your troops behind cover and in the next turn an alien will be able to shoot them from an unknown position when you can't even see them even after the shot, they will kill your troops in 1 shot regardless of cover or position while they can survive up to 3 shots (if you manage to land one) I'm pretty damn sure skill takes over once you get good equipment, but before that you are at complete mercy of the randomness of the game.Maroxad

1. Soldiers are dirt cheap. If you dont like the stats just replace them.
2. Soldier stats dont really matter that much in the first place.

1. Aliens arent nearly accurate as you might think.
2. Wounded aliens are significantly more inacurate.

1. You have MUCH more control in UFO defense than you do in Enemy Unknown, for instance, you have multiple modes of fire, can crouch, move after shooting, shoot multiple times in a single turn.
2. Not to mention, you have much more control over your troops too. In UFO Defense you get to choose what each soldier equips, in Enemy Unknown the RNG does by assigning a random class.
3. In UFO defense, you can aim wherever you want and destroy the environment. 

1. You can see where the bullets fly from
2. Yes, attacking without being seen makes sense, it is called stealth
3. If you cover the area properly this wont happen 

1. As for damage, yes, the RNG there is kinda absurd.
2. But learn to close your distance, I usually have no problems flanking them.

By taking away a lot of the tactical freedom that UFO defense had. I would argue that if anything, it is XCOM ENEMY UNKNOWN that is far more RNG heavy of the 2 games. Enemy Unknown felt a lot more luck based than UFO defense.

1- They will still have bad stats, they are rookies

2-Yes they do, they totally do, a soldier with 30% accuraccy isn't going to hit shit, a soldier with 30 bravery will go insane even inside the skyranger, a soldier with 40 TU and 30 energy won't be able to move a lot or shoot well.

3-Uhm yes they are because they hit 8 out of 10 shots they make, plus the fact that a single shot kills your unarmored troops and you can't develop armor until later in the game (I already got the plasma rifle and heavy plasma and still no sign of armor despite researching every defensive thing I got)

4-That's not my point at all when I said "no control" I meant no control of what happens, no way to fight back, walk out of the skyranger, literally take 1 step out of it and I get shot in my own turn by a reaction shot and die.

5- Yeah equipment, so what? also the same thing happens in EU, you get to chose a soldier's loadout before each battle, so I don't really see your point.

6-And it's a waste to shoot at nothing unless you want to do something like blowing a wall to get inside earlier, you are wasting precious TUs to make a reaction shot.

7- Wrong, you can only see the direction from which they come from, you CAN'T see the point of origin so it's still useless, can't really do much with knowing the shot came from the right, if I don't know in which of the remaining 100 tiles to the right the enemy is standing on.

8- And if there is absolutely no way to fight back then it's a diceroll and not related to skill, you can carefully take your troops out of the skyranger, put them behind cover, and the unseen enemy can still kill extremely easy because they were flanking you all the time and you had absolute no way to know, couldn't even throw a flare because as soon as you got out you got killed, or if you didn't guessed right and you threw it on a wrong direction, IT IS a diceroll, face it.

9- Again, nothing to do when there's a chance the aliens are all around the map, you  can get out every guy to cover every direction, put them behind cover, and they will still most likely die, 1 of them might be facing the right cover while the other might be getting flanked, the fact that you can't see the enemy but they can see you doesn't help either, they will kill 1 soldier and the rest wont have a chance to fight back because they are not able to see the alien, like I said you can never see the point of origin of the shot unless the alien is already within your LOS so it doesn't help to put a guy as bait because you will never be able to spot the alien even if you can see the direction of the shot.

10- Can't close my distance when I can't see them, I usually just take 4-5 guys out and place them behind cover then move little by little and it still results in a lot of guys getting killed with no way to fight back.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]It has skill, and that's in how you deal with the poor hand of cards you start off with. It's a game balanced entirely against you at the beginning and demands you to persist in actually seeing it through. That's a huge part of the atmosphere and engagement of the game. Once you start turning the tables you'll feel like it's the best thing ever. The game is a bastard and it's better for it.Maroxad

Yeah, progression felt so satisfying in XCOM. A lot of it is due to the fact that you do start underpowered.

While UFO Defense is based around random dice rolls, you need to learn tactics to improve your odds. The game is designed around being able to take heavy losses on soldiers, so don't get too attached to them. The Skyranger can hold up to 14 soldiers for a mission. After I got good at the game, I don't recall ever losing all 14 on any missions to recover small alien UFOs. UFO Defense is very rough on new players, but it's incredibly addicting if you take the time to learn how to play effectively.

Falconoffury

A lot of the stuff in XCOM that seems really luck based at first can in fact be avoided with good tactics, the low accuracy in the beginning may sting, But there are ways to get around that, such as getting closer or using explosives. I usually find myself losing not that many troops in the first mission even on the highest setting.

I dunno about you, but early on in XCOM, I rely heavily on explosives (auto cannon with HE/Grenades/Rocket Luancher) to make up for poor accuracy, of course there are more tactics too, but explosives tends to be very effective in many situations in early XCOM: UFO Defense and certainly is a lot easier than destroying the map to create paths to flank the aliens.

okay, now im wondering if you actually played the game or the vanilla version at least.

in UFO defense, accuraccy is completely independent to distance from the target, if a guy who is standing 50 tiles away from an alien has a 30% chance to land the hit, he will have 30% chance to land when standing right next to the alien, this only changes with the EXTENDER MOD which makes the game 100% more playable. No wonder your previous post was so wrong, you're using the extender mod, you're not playing it the way it was meant to be played.

And explosives can and do miss just as bullets do, as a matter of fact a missed rocket rarely hits the ground, it keeps going until leaving the stage or detonates in your face or 50 miles away from the actual target.

8- And if there is absolutely no way to fight back then it's a diceroll and not related to skilllightleggy

This is the main part of your argument that I do not understand. You "fight back" by learning and using the best tactics for the various situations you get into. That is the whole point of the game. The aliens may have better stats and equipment at the first month, but you overcome this through superior tactics. The game is also designed around losing lots of soldiers. If you lost 10 soldiers, but still recovered a crashed UFO, you probably did an ok job.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"] Uhm, no it's not, look at hard games like battletoads, contra or ninja gaiden, you can't say that any of those are dice rolls, you are in complete control of what happens and in theory you can have a perfect game with the right skill. Now you can't say the same for Xcom, you don't have a word about the initial stats of your troops, you don't have a word in the aliens accuraccy (which is always really high) or reaction shots capabilities, you have no control over anything, you can have your troops behind cover and in the next turn an alien will be able to shoot them from an unknown position when you can't even see them even after the shot, they will kill your troops in 1 shot regardless of cover or position while they can survive up to 3 shots (if you manage to land one) I'm pretty damn sure skill takes over once you get good equipment, but before that you are at complete mercy of the randomness of the game.lightleggy

1. Soldiers are dirt cheap. If you dont like the stats just replace them.
2. Soldier stats dont really matter that much in the first place.

1. Aliens arent nearly accurate as you might think.
2. Wounded aliens are significantly more inacurate.

1. You have MUCH more control in UFO defense than you do in Enemy Unknown, for instance, you have multiple modes of fire, can crouch, move after shooting, shoot multiple times in a single turn.
2. Not to mention, you have much more control over your troops too. In UFO Defense you get to choose what each soldier equips, in Enemy Unknown the RNG does by assigning a random class.
3. In UFO defense, you can aim wherever you want and destroy the environment. 

1. You can see where the bullets fly from
2. Yes, attacking without being seen makes sense, it is called stealth
3. If you cover the area properly this wont happen 

1. As for damage, yes, the RNG there is kinda absurd.
2. But learn to close your distance, I usually have no problems flanking them.

By taking away a lot of the tactical freedom that UFO defense had. I would argue that if anything, it is XCOM ENEMY UNKNOWN that is far more RNG heavy of the 2 games. Enemy Unknown felt a lot more luck based than UFO defense.

1- They will still have bad stats, they are rookies

2-Yes they do, they totally do, a soldier with 30% accuraccy isn't going to hit shit, a soldier with 30 bravery will go insane even inside the skyranger, a soldier with 40 TU and 30 energy won't be able to move a lot or shoot well.

3-Uhm yes they are because they hit 8 out of 10 shots they make, plus the fact that a single shot kills your unarmored troops and you can't develop armor until later in the game (I already got the plasma rifle and heavy plasma and still no sign of armor despite researching every defensive thing I got)

4-That's not my point at all when I said "no control" I meant no control of what happens, no way to fight back, walk out of the skyranger, literally take 1 step out of it and I get shot in my own turn by a reaction shot and die.

5- Yeah equipment, so what? also the same thing happens in EU, you get to chose a soldier's loadout before each battle, so I don't really see your point.

6-And it's a waste to shoot at nothing unless you want to do something like blowing a wall to get inside earlier, you are wasting precious TUs to make a reaction shot.

7- Wrong, you can only see the direction from which they come from, you CAN'T see the point of origin so it's still useless, can't really do much with knowing the shot came from the right, if I don't know in which of the remaining 100 tiles to the right the enemy is standing on.

8- And if there is absolutely no way to fight back then it's a diceroll and not related to skill, you can carefully take your troops out of the skyranger, put them behind cover, and the unseen enemy can still kill extremely easy because they were flanking you all the time and you had absolute no way to know, couldn't even throw a flare because as soon as you got out you got killed, or if you didn't guessed right and you threw it on a wrong direction, IT IS a diceroll, face it.

9- Again, nothing to do when there's a chance the aliens are all around the map, you  can get out every guy to cover every direction, put them behind cover, and they will still most likely die, 1 of them might be facing the right cover while the other might be getting flanked, the fact that you can't see the enemy but they can see you doesn't help either, they will kill 1 soldier and the rest wont have a chance to fight back because they are not able to see the alien, like I said you can never see the point of origin of the shot unless the alien is already within your LOS so it doesn't help to put a guy as bait because you will never be able to spot the alien even if you can see the direction of the shot.

10- Can't close my distance when I can't see them, I usually just take 4-5 guys out and place them behind cover then move little by little and it still results in a lot of guys getting killed with no way to fight back.

1. Doesnt matter, they are supposed to be weaker than the aliens in the start. Keep in mind that you are facing an alien threat who are not only capable of easily being able to travel between planets, but are quite possibly also capable of FTL travel.

2. A soldier with 30 bravery is going to go berserk IF you are losing. Morale is lost when your troops die, and replenished by when you kill theirs. I very seldomly have problems with morale, and really suffer from it when mind control is involved. And enemy MC is something you can very easily cheese. A soldier with 40 TU is good enough, move 10 tiles per turn, and energy wont matter a lot unless they are overencumbered. TU and energy have no impact on shooting, Weapon fire costs are dephendant on Total TU % so a guy with a fire mode that costs 10 TU for a guy with 40 TU will cost 20 TU for a guy with 80 TU.

3. I would say they hit around 75% of the time, the idea is that you dont even give them the chance to get those shots in. Or at least that is how I play. As for armor, you know modern kevlars right? Development of kevlar armor would not have been possible if the materials for kevlar armor had not been developed. The first armor can actually be the second thing you research. However, any alloys currently developed by human beings will not be sufficient for any better armors.

4. Smoke grenades tend to work to prevent that. Yes it is lame and this is one thing that could have been improved upon, make sure the aliens start with 50% TUs or so (this would mean that while they can still shoot you via reaction fire, they would still give your troops a chance to shoot first)

5. You have a LOT more freedom in what to equip your troops with in this game than you do in Enemy Unknown, give your guy as many grenades (smoke grenades too) as you like. In EU you can only give them weapons and armor, the rest is based off their class, here it is based off what you give them, the better you play, the more money you have, the more money you have the better equiped your troops. Game rewards skill (luck too, darn Alien Infiltrations).

6. That is exactly what they are for, blow up walls and in the case of explosives (and with good predicting skills) kill a few aliens you havent seen yet.

7. I never said you could see him. You can use the angle of the shots and the direction to get a VERY good idea of where the alien was standing as he made the shot. That is what I was saying. You dont need to see the enemy to make out his position.

8. that sounds more like insufficient tactics than anything. You cover ground, but you have to be smart while doing so. Keep in mind that you can have up to 14 troops (until you get 24), that gives you plenty of soldiers to cover the entire map. It really isnt that much of a dice roll, while there is some luck ofc, but not to the point you are making. This game is a lot less RNG heavy than its reboot.

9. Take the map one step at a time. The aliens arent very smart and tend to blow through most of their TU in a single turn even if it just results in them walking around aimlessly. If you are having troubles with line of sight. Employ the flares, or avoid nighttime missions. Also with proper use of cover and use of the map, the only way they will get a shot at you is if they run right through your choke points. Use flares in nighttime missions, in daytime missions your LoS is the same as the aliens'.

10. Again, use flares.

As for your other post.

Oh I played it, and beat it multiple times. Also no he wont if he is standing right next to him, the bullets wont be able to spread that far. And no, explosives are more accurate, even if they dont hit the alien directly, the explosion radius is huge. As for the percentage, ignore it, it is not accurate, the way that thing says is how much your shots can spread, and the maximum degree at the spread can be from its target, a shot with 20% accuracy will have a 24.3% chance of hitting within 1 degree and will at its worst make a shot that is 24.6 degrees off.

But I modded the game for my second playthrough, why, because of the difficulty bug. Which sets the difficulty to the lowest difficulty after the first battle.

You may start underpowered, but you can easily overcome this through superior tactics. And that is a big part of the game's charm.

Wanna hear something funny? Unless you're using xcomutil. You're playing in beginner's mode, regardless of what difficulty mode you chose (only the first battle will be in the difficulty mode of your choice). It's a bug that was never fixed by Microprose. They then heard complaints of how easy the first game was and made Terror's of the Deep harder. But since everyone was really playing the first game in beginner's mode, Terror turned out to be much too hard.

As for tactical gameplay... Scout/Sniper works best. You send out a couple of scouts to find aliens. In that you don't worry about reserving TU for them. You have the rest of the team with full TU"s lined up by the Skyranger or far away from the front lines. The scouts spot the aliens, and you fire with the guys on the other side of the map. Aliens won't reaction fire, because the unit that fired is too far away, and they'll ignore you scout with reaction fire as long as your scout doesn't move.

Also, know that Psi attacks from aliens don't need line of sight. They just attack whom ever has the less bravery. They start their attacks as soon a an alien sees one of your party members. So... you bring a couple of guys with zero bravery, or near zero, equip him with a stun rod and a med pack, and use him as scout/healers. When they get possessed, they'll be harmless, plus they will used up TU's from the High Ranked alien that are attacking him.

After the 20th turn all aliens on the map know where all your guys are at. This is why they only start exiting the UFO after the 20th turn. So... you use proxi mines on the 19th turn and throw one (no point in throwing more than one because the first explotion will just waste a second one), one square in front of the door. You want to throw it one square in front, because Proxi-mines have a one square radius, and if you throw them by the door, the door will block the explosion.

Time of day matters. Aliens can see the same number of squares whether day or night. Soldiers square sight gets cut in half at night. I forget what the square range was. I think it was 20/10 for the soldiers and 25/25 for the Aliens. This also means that flares give the aliens no advantage. So don't worry about your glowsticks lighting up your own guys, when you walk a guy over one, so he can throw it again.

With the first two tactics alone, you'll find out that the orginal was much deeper than the remake. And it's the Remake that cheats. Also, that the Geoscape portion of the remake was complete trash.

As for the random number generaator. The orginal game was on the fly, while also it tracked the bullet. By track I mean if the bullet hit something that something is distroyed, injured or killed. The remake's RNG is set before the battle and the bullets aren't tracked. Meaning if a shot gets a number that says it's to hit something, it only hits that one something and nothing else. Remake has no friendly fire or the lucky shot of killed 2-3 aliens with a single burst. As for, on the fly, that means that if you reloaded a save and fire the same shot, the shot would randomly hit or miss the target. Where as the remake's hit or miss, would be across the board. In that if you reloaded a save the shot would always hit or always miss, and if you passed the shot to the aliens, they would recieve that same exact random number (that's not really, random).

Wanna hear something funny? Unless you're using xcomutil. You're playing in beginner's mode, regardless of what difficulty mode you chose. It's a bug that was never fixed by Microprose. They then heard complaints of how easy the first game was and made Terror's of the Deep harder. But since everyone was really playing the game in beginner's mode, Terror turned out to be too hard.Threesixtyci

The Windows version doesnt have this bug either.

Windows version has the Blaster problem of waypoints not being able to be set on the vertical (if you try it the football head off to a corner of the screen, ignoring all the other waypoints.), where as the Dos version didn't have that bug. OP mentioned Dosbox, so he's not playing the Windows version. The Windows version is part of the Steam package. It's hidden in there. Steam uses Dosbox by default, though.

Playstation version has neither of those problems and has better sound.

Yea my 90% shots missing 50% of the time is because of my gaming skill.....some of you are so delusional lol.

vfibsux

Wish I had the time and patience to try the new XCOM.FelipeInside

@OP:

As TFTD veteran i must say all the problems you mentioned are not true. The game is not random, it only takes time to learn how to overcame the tactical problems ( such as entering ufos, shots from darkness, and aliens having stronger and more accurate weapons).

First you should not take ANY chances. I can't count how many times my soldier missed with only ona space between him and an alien. And it was only my fault for i should have walked that one space and auto-shoot the alien in face, or throw a grenade. Or just retreat. Always assume the worst. The habbit of not taking chances have helped me a lot in new Xcom ( I started from classic difficulty and never find it too difficult - just as in original game all you need is not making mistakes)

Don't shoot. I mean it. At the begining your soldiers simply can't shoot so you should order them to. Throw grenades. They are MUCH more accurate, and MUCH less likely to trigger reaction fire ( i can't remember an intance of throwing a grenade triggering a reaction shot). Unlike shots, they always kill initial aliens. Even if they miss, chances are they will kill alien anyway ( if they land close enough). Alien grenade should be your reaserch priority. With it you can make pre-emptive artillery strikes - throw them wherever you suspect aliens can be.

Don't go to night missions. In 90% of cases you can wait until day. For the rest take lots of flares and don't go into darkness.

Use tanks as scouts. Very helpfull.

Don't walk through doors. Open them first ( right button). If you can't ( opening doors without walking through them was added in TFTD but i think in OG too through a path or mod) blow them or destroy it through fire. It is not wrong,counter-terrorists blow doors too, rather than walk through them. :)

I can't reply to everyone on the thread, i've been corrected on lots of stuff and I accept it. Now I'm having some issues and I'd like some help.

First of all: I CAN'T purchase anything for my main base because there is no more room for supplies, I know about the general stores and such, but the thing is, as soon as I build a new GS, it is immediatly filled to the max, so even if I build a new one, as soon as it's built it goes on full capacity. i can't even resupply ammo or anything because of this.

Secondly: "Research complete" no longer shows which research was completed, it's just a blank.

And I've also noticed that gear is simply dissapearing, I had 14 personal armours for my 14 troops, yes some of them died, but I have NEVER abandoned a mission, so the corpses are recovered afterwards, yet I've lost the armor and I've noticed that sometimes I even randomly lose weapons even on missions when no one dies, I had like 6 plasma rifles and now I only got like 4. And I CAN'T equip a tank into the skyranger, even with 8 crewman and no items (I removed everything just to try), first I got "No HCP ammo" or something like that so I bought it, the ammo arrived but it DOESN'T SHOWS UP in the inventory, and now when I click on the arrow to get the tank in the skyranger, nothing happens, the arrow is pressed and that's it. Is that a bug or something?

and finally: The landing times are completely bugged, I land at 11:30 AM and I get a night mission, land at 3:10 on washington and got a night terror mission, wth is that? and I'm losing a nation every month despite having "excellent!" rating, I'm already 3 nations down.

I can't reply to everyone on the thread, i've been corrected on lots of stuff and I accept it. Now I'm having some issues and I'd like some help. First of all: I CAN'T purchase anything for my main base because there is no more room for supplies, I know about the general stores and such, but the thing is, as soon as I build a new GS, it is immediatly filled to the max, so even if I build a new one, as soon as it's built it goes on full capacity. i can't even resupply ammo or anything because of this. Secondly: "Research complete" no longer shows which research was completed, it's just a blank.And I've also noticed that gear is simply dissapearing, I had 14 personal armours for my 14 troops, yes some of them died, but I have NEVER abandoned a mission, so the corpses are recovered afterwards, yet I've lost the armor and I've noticed that sometimes I even randomly lose weapons even on missions when no one dies, I had like 6 plasma rifles and now I only got like 4. And I CAN'T equip a tank into the skyranger, even with 8 crewman and no items (I removed everything just to try), first I got "No HCP ammo" or something like that so I bought it, the ammo arrived but it DOESN'T SHOWS UP in the inventory, and now when I click on the arrow to get the tank in the skyranger, nothing happens, the arrow is pressed and that's it. Is that a bug or something?lightleggy

The supply cap affects only engineering and purchases.

What this means is that stuff looted can go well beyond this limit. This means that even if you you might have had 340 units of supply (hyperbole, probably closer to 150 or something) when you really only had supply for 50 items. With all that elerium and allien alloys you probably have hoarded up, you probably dont have any space for anything else.

Dunno exactly what oyu mean here, but there are 2 buttons to press, one links you to the UFOpedia page of it and one just carries on.

As for the weapons, that seems awfully strange, keep in mind that weapons can blow up from explosions, but losing them even if no one dies has never happened to me. As for armor, it is not a bug, when a soldier dies, the armor also gets unusable (wouldnt want an armor with a massive hole in it afterall).

Perhaps there are too many items in the skyranger, try checking the stuff. As for the ammo, for the cheaper of the 2 tanks (cannon) you need to have at least 30 of its ammunition and for the more expensive one (rocket launcher) you need at least 8 of its ammunition.

Hope that helps.

[QUOTE="lightleggy"]I can't reply to everyone on the thread, i've been corrected on lots of stuff and I accept it. Now I'm having some issues and I'd like some help. First of all: I CAN'T purchase anything for my main base because there is no more room for supplies, I know about the general stores and such, but the thing is, as soon as I build a new GS, it is immediatly filled to the max, so even if I build a new one, as soon as it's built it goes on full capacity. i can't even resupply ammo or anything because of this. Secondly: "Research complete" no longer shows which research was completed, it's just a blank.And I've also noticed that gear is simply dissapearing, I had 14 personal armours for my 14 troops, yes some of them died, but I have NEVER abandoned a mission, so the corpses are recovered afterwards, yet I've lost the armor and I've noticed that sometimes I even randomly lose weapons even on missions when no one dies, I had like 6 plasma rifles and now I only got like 4. And I CAN'T equip a tank into the skyranger, even with 8 crewman and no items (I removed everything just to try), first I got "No HCP ammo" or something like that so I bought it, the ammo arrived but it DOESN'T SHOWS UP in the inventory, and now when I click on the arrow to get the tank in the skyranger, nothing happens, the arrow is pressed and that's it. Is that a bug or something?Maroxad

The supply cap affects only engineering and purchases.

What this means is that stuff looted can go well beyond this limit. This means that even if you you might have had 340 units of supply (hyperbole, probably closer to 150 or something) when you really only had supply for 50 items. With all that elerium and allien alloys you probably have hoarded up, you probably dont have any space for anything else.

Dunno exactly what oyu mean here, but there are 2 buttons to press, one links you to the UFOpedia page of it and one just carries on.

As for the weapons, that seems awfully strange, keep in mind that weapons can blow up from explosions, but losing them even if no one dies has never happened to me. As for armor, it is not a bug, when a soldier dies, the armor also gets unusable (wouldnt want an armor with a massive hole in it afterall).

Perhaps there are too many items in the skyranger, try checking the stuff. As for the ammo, for the cheaper of the 2 tanks (cannon) you need to have at least 30 of its ammunition and for the more expensive one (rocket launcher) you need at least 8 of its ammunition.

Hope that helps.

Oh so can I sell some of that stuff?  I have over 600 elerium and about the same amount of alien alloys.

And what I mean about the research thing is that when a research is completed, I don't get a "research compled: X research" (replace X with whatever it was that I was researching). I just get a "research completed:" and nothing else. and then 2 buttons "ok" and "continue", then "allocate research", only some researches have the "view report" option.

and I was hoping they might be able to fi the armor :P as for the tank, it's not the items, I emptied the skyranger and tried to load it only with the tank and nothing happened, perhaps it's the 30 rounds thing.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"]I can't reply to everyone on the thread, i've been corrected on lots of stuff and I accept it. Now I'm having some issues and I'd like some help. First of all: I CAN'T purchase anything for my main base because there is no more room for supplies, I know about the general stores and such, but the thing is, as soon as I build a new GS, it is immediatly filled to the max, so even if I build a new one, as soon as it's built it goes on full capacity. i can't even resupply ammo or anything because of this. Secondly: "Research complete" no longer shows which research was completed, it's just a blank.And I've also noticed that gear is simply dissapearing, I had 14 personal armours for my 14 troops, yes some of them died, but I have NEVER abandoned a mission, so the corpses are recovered afterwards, yet I've lost the armor and I've noticed that sometimes I even randomly lose weapons even on missions when no one dies, I had like 6 plasma rifles and now I only got like 4. And I CAN'T equip a tank into the skyranger, even with 8 crewman and no items (I removed everything just to try), first I got "No HCP ammo" or something like that so I bought it, the ammo arrived but it DOESN'T SHOWS UP in the inventory, and now when I click on the arrow to get the tank in the skyranger, nothing happens, the arrow is pressed and that's it. Is that a bug or something?lightleggy

The supply cap affects only engineering and purchases.

What this means is that stuff looted can go well beyond this limit. This means that even if you you might have had 340 units of supply (hyperbole, probably closer to 150 or something) when you really only had supply for 50 items. With all that elerium and allien alloys you probably have hoarded up, you probably dont have any space for anything else.

Dunno exactly what oyu mean here, but there are 2 buttons to press, one links you to the UFOpedia page of it and one just carries on.

As for the weapons, that seems awfully strange, keep in mind that weapons can blow up from explosions, but losing them even if no one dies has never happened to me. As for armor, it is not a bug, when a soldier dies, the armor also gets unusable (wouldnt want an armor with a massive hole in it afterall).

Perhaps there are too many items in the skyranger, try checking the stuff. As for the ammo, for the cheaper of the 2 tanks (cannon) you need to have at least 30 of its ammunition and for the more expensive one (rocket launcher) you need at least 8 of its ammunition.

Hope that helps.

Oh so can I sell some of that stuff?  I have over 600 elerium and about the same amount of alien alloys.

And what I mean about the research thing is that when a research is completed, I don't get a "research compled: X research" (replace X with whatever it was that I was researching). I just get a "research completed:" and nothing else. and then 2 buttons "ok" and "continue", then "allocate research", only some researches have the "view report" option.

and I was hoping they might be able to fi the armor :P as for the tank, it's not the items, I emptied the skyranger and tried to load it only with the tank and nothing happened, perhaps it's the 30 rounds thing.

Yes you can sell it, if you actually have that much elerium and alien alloys I would recommend selling a good chunk of it, or better yet, move it to other bases if they arent overburdened by elerium. But if you do sell it though, prepare to get rich :D

It is poor wording of the game, one of them (continue if memory serves) gets the UFOpedia stuff article. I was confused as well when it first happened. If you want to read the articles, just go to the ufopedia tab, but I will say this, poor wording is poor wording.

As a word of advice on stuff to research

[spoiler] keep researching the laser tree, at least until you get laser cannons, this is for 2 reasons, 1. you can build laser tanks, which use no ammunition and have infinite ammo, which means you wont have to worry about ammunition 30 rounds anymore. 2. Laser cannons are very profitable you actually make money from having a load of engineers just build laser cannons. Also, even without laser cannons it is good to have laser rifles before Ethereals arrive, you will probably figure out why when you face them. Also, try to capture an alien navigator, zerg those UFOs with smoke grenade wielding stun rod soldiers. The tech you gain from interrogating them makes it so worth it. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

The supply cap affects only engineering and purchases.

What this means is that stuff looted can go well beyond this limit. This means that even if you you might have had 340 units of supply (hyperbole, probably closer to 150 or something) when you really only had supply for 50 items. With all that elerium and allien alloys you probably have hoarded up, you probably dont have any space for anything else.

Dunno exactly what oyu mean here, but there are 2 buttons to press, one links you to the UFOpedia page of it and one just carries on.

As for the weapons, that seems awfully strange, keep in mind that weapons can blow up from explosions, but losing them even if no one dies has never happened to me. As for armor, it is not a bug, when a soldier dies, the armor also gets unusable (wouldnt want an armor with a massive hole in it afterall).

Perhaps there are too many items in the skyranger, try checking the stuff. As for the ammo, for the cheaper of the 2 tanks (cannon) you need to have at least 30 of its ammunition and for the more expensive one (rocket launcher) you need at least 8 of its ammunition.

Hope that helps.

Maroxad

Oh so can I sell some of that stuff?  I have over 600 elerium and about the same amount of alien alloys.

And what I mean about the research thing is that when a research is completed, I don't get a "research compled: X research" (replace X with whatever it was that I was researching). I just get a "research completed:" and nothing else. and then 2 buttons "ok" and "continue", then "allocate research", only some researches have the "view report" option.

and I was hoping they might be able to fi the armor :P as for the tank, it's not the items, I emptied the skyranger and tried to load it only with the tank and nothing happened, perhaps it's the 30 rounds thing.

Yes you can sell it, if you actually have that much elerium and alien alloys I would recommend selling a good chunk of it, or better yet, move it to other bases if they arent overburdened by elerium. But if you do sell it though, prepare to get rich :D

It is poor wording of the game, one of them (continue if memory serves) gets the UFOpedia stuff article. I was confused as well when it first happened. If you want to read the articles, just go to the ufopedia tab, but I will say this, poor wording is poor wording.

As a word of advice on stuff to research

[spoiler] keep researching the laser tree, at least until you get laser cannons, this is for 2 reasons, 1. you can build laser tanks, which use no ammunition and have infinite ammo, which means you wont have to worry about ammunition 30 rounds anymore. 2. Laser cannons are very profitable you actually make money from having a load of engineers just build laser cannons. Also, even without laser cannons it is good to have laser rifles before Ethereals arrive, you will probably figure out why when you face them. Also, try to capture an alien navigator, zerg those UFOs with smoke grenade wielding stun rod soldiers. The tech you gain from interrogating them makes it so worth it. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"]

Oh so can I sell some of that stuff?  I have over 600 elerium and about the same amount of alien alloys.

And what I mean about the research thing is that when a research is completed, I don't get a "research compled: X research" (replace X with whatever it was that I was researching). I just get a "research completed:" and nothing else. and then 2 buttons "ok" and "continue", then "allocate research", only some researches have the "view report" option.

and I was hoping they might be able to fi the armor :P as for the tank, it's not the items, I emptied the skyranger and tried to load it only with the tank and nothing happened, perhaps it's the 30 rounds thing.

lightleggy

Yes you can sell it, if you actually have that much elerium and alien alloys I would recommend selling a good chunk of it, or better yet, move it to other bases if they arent overburdened by elerium. But if you do sell it though, prepare to get rich :D

It is poor wording of the game, one of them (continue if memory serves) gets the UFOpedia stuff article. I was confused as well when it first happened. If you want to read the articles, just go to the ufopedia tab, but I will say this, poor wording is poor wording.

As a word of advice on stuff to research

[spoiler] keep researching the laser tree, at least until you get laser cannons, this is for 2 reasons, 1. you can build laser tanks, which use no ammunition and have infinite ammo, which means you wont have to worry about ammunition 30 rounds anymore. 2. Laser cannons are very profitable you actually make money from having a load of engineers just build laser cannons. Also, even without laser cannons it is good to have laser rifles before Ethereals arrive, you will probably figure out why when you face them. Also, try to capture an alien navigator, zerg those UFOs with smoke grenade wielding stun rod soldiers. The tech you gain from interrogating them makes it so worth it. [/spoiler]

Laser is weaker than plasma, but laser has 3 advantages, 1 it requires no ammo, 2 laser rifles shoot faster than plasma weapons and let you make 2 aimed shots in one turn, 3 lasers deal a different damage type than plasma weapons (this may come in handy).

As for the aliens, the species dont matter all that much as their rank does, unless it is a sectoid (of the leader rank or higher) or an ethereal. As for you not capturing the sectoid, that was just bad luck. As much as I love the game, the damage spread is too high with the stun rod doing 0-130 damage. Thankfully, there is a ranged weapon that stuns and deals more (stun) damage than the stun rod which makes capturing aliens a lot easier.

[spoiler] that weapon is the small launcher [/spoiler]

I can't reply to everyone on the thread, i've been corrected on lots of stuff and I accept it. Now I'm having some issues and I'd like some help.

First of all: I CAN'T purchase anything for my main base because there is no more room for supplies, I know about the general stores and such, but the thing is, as soon as I build a new GS, it is immediatly filled to the max, so even if I build a new one, as soon as it's built it goes on full capacity. i can't even resupply ammo or anything because of this.

Secondly: "Research complete" no longer shows which research was completed, it's just a blank.

And I've also noticed that gear is simply dissapearing, I had 14 personal armours for my 14 troops, yes some of them died, but I have NEVER abandoned a mission, so the corpses are recovered afterwards, yet I've lost the armor and I've noticed that sometimes I even randomly lose weapons even on missions when no one dies, I had like 6 plasma rifles and now I only got like 4. And I CAN'T equip a tank into the skyranger, even with 8 crewman and no items (I removed everything just to try), first I got "No HCP ammo" or something like that so I bought it, the ammo arrived but it DOESN'T SHOWS UP in the inventory, and now when I click on the arrow to get the tank in the skyranger, nothing happens, the arrow is pressed and that's it. Is that a bug or something?

and finally: The landing times are completely bugged, I land at 11:30 AM and I get a night mission, land at 3:10 on washington and got a night terror mission, wth is that? and I'm losing a nation every month despite having "excellent!" rating, I'm already 3 nations down.

lightleggy

I am more of TFTD guy than OG, but i think i might be able help.

The space management is one of the nuisancec new xcom has luckily ditched. In both first and second game ( i don't rememer to have had this problem in Apocalypse, ever) no matter how many stores you have build, you need to organise a big sale from time to time. Simply, the limit does not apply to  loot, whitch means you WILL get crampted with it sooner or later. You have to balance between building enough stores to have comfort of not having to sell stuff too often, and keeping space for facilities you really need.

As have been mentioned, to equip a tank you need to have enough ammo to fully arm it. One round too liitle, and tank is not operational. In TFTD there is a message for such situation.

A for day and night: do not forget the time difference. The day must in part of globe where the mission occurs. IN TFTD there is a shadow, that moves over the globe indicating night/day cycle. I admit i don't know if it i present in OG. Without it waiting for light might be more difficult. Still method of dealing with darkness remains same. Throw a lot of flares to iluminate the area. Remamber you can pick up and reuse thrown ones, iluminating new ares. If you don't want to bother, throw there an alien grenade or blaster launcher missile, just in case.  

For losing nations:

Aliens infiltrate countries. Infiltrated ones leave. It is essentially your doomsday clock, preventing infinite gameplay and forcing you to play the strategic layer right ( meaing - obtainig all you need to finish aliens before they will obtain all they need to finish earth) In some official paper for TFDT i read ( i think it was readme file on disc), that on highier difficulties player can only slow down the process, but not stop it.

From my experience, in TFTD destroing an alien base in a given month should prevent infiltration on lower difficulties. You should never ignore ufos, untill you have a hypervave transmitter, and than never ignore ufos with alien infiltration mission, ( nor its escourts - i don't remember now). What i have read on ufopedia site, it will prevent infiltration only when ufo in question will not even fly over target country ( i think it is only true on higher difficulities). This way or another, you should:

a) hurry up with the campaign

b) tolarete not alien bases - they seem to accelerate the process.

if countries start leaving really early, check alien activity graphs. They might be simply dissatisfied. Alien base is particullary tricky, for it generate alien activity, without ufos to be detected. [spoiler] Also, With just one base, you most likely don't have, enough crafts and radars to keep aliens supressed enough to make sponsors happy. Remember ufos' spawn and fly all over the globe, and (at least in TFTD) with just one base many will simply escape - that is why i place 4 bases so that i encircle a bigger area, which allows me to send crafts from more then one direction. [/spoiler]

On research complete: this is how it has been desinged. You need to press view report to know which reaserch is done. 

I can't help about dissapearing weapons. Seems like plain bug.

You not getting research complete messages and blank screen are signs of a glitched install. Or a mod you installed that isn't installed correctly. If you're using UFO Extender... UFO extender isn't compatible with the Dos version of Xcom. Meaning if you're using Dosbox, then UFO extender isn't compatible. Xcomutil is compatible with both Dos and Windows versions of Xcom.