I'm so sick and tired of LCD

Whether its banding on the Sharps, Clouding on Samsungs/Sonys, dead pixels, stuck pixels, terrible SD viewing, overscan, HDMI dropouts on the new samsung lines, lip sync issues and audio issues, motion blur and refresh rate issues, I'm done, the technology is worthless.

Any ideas on good CRT HDTV sets? I refuse to go DLP because its useless as well (i have no desire to sit in a direct angle right in front of the TV).

None of the CRT HD sets are very good. There's 30" models from Samsung and Sony that are alright, but they have geometry problems along with other issues

You could always go for an LCoS set if you have the major cash to do so.

Have you actually looked at the newer LCD sets, really looked at them? Most of the issues have been resolved.

None of the CRT HD sets are very good. There's 30" models from Samsung and Sony that are alright, but they have geometry problems along with other issues

You could always go for an LCoS set if you have the major cash to do so.

Have you actually looked at the newer LCD sets, really looked at them? Most of the issues have been resolved.

Kodai_kun

Actually Kodai, the reason I made this ranting thread is BECAUSE of the new LCD's that are out. Do you frequent AVS? Read the LNTxx61/65/66F owners thread II. HDMI handshaking issues and extreme black crush are the newest issues to come down the pipeline. People can't keep their HDMI devices connected to the Samsungs because the TV drops the signal once every 4-5 minutes resulting in a green screen or other artifacting. Outside of that, the black crush from the 15,000:1 contrast ratio is disgusting. I was a fan of the series for the first 10 pages of that thread...but no more, the TV's are quickly turning into absolute crap. Nevermind the isolated reports of clouding (again) and flashlighting.

I want to wait for the 71 series. I have confidence that maybe...FINALLY...they will get them right...But I've been waiting over a year, I can hardly wait much longer. I've owned one LCD, a KDL-46XBR2 with clouds all OVER the damn place and never bought another one. I'd wait for the 81 series, but LED is a newer tech, and we are probably looking at another couple years of problems from that too, namely reliability issues.

Where does it end? Or does the secret lie in just not going to AVS any longer...

EDIT: OOOHHH and let's not forget that ever-awesome audio syncing issues when you hook up the LNT 60 series to an external audio source.  Hell, it might even affect the TV's speakers themselves.  People have described the experience as "surreal".  Watching a baseball game and hearing the hit before the ball even reaches the plate?  No thank you.  Give me some advice Kodai, you own a set, I'm sure of it.  You, me, and cspiffo represent the bulk of knowledge when it comes to HDTV on these forums, what did you do?  Which did you buy? 

That's the one reason I don't like the AVS forums that much. You get a bunch of AV guys talkin' and they will nitpick the hell out of a piece of equipment and make it sound like a total POS. Personally, I didn't buy LCD because of the fact that it has a better screen. I bought it because it is far more easy to deal with than a hulking CRT display. I mean, if you keep looking at the flaws, which all tvs have, you will never decide on a set because THEY ALL HAVE THEIR ISSUES! I bought a cheap ass LCD display a about a year ago and I love it. I just found out a little undocumented nugget about my display the other day. It accepts a 1080P signal! Sure the display is only 1366X768, but it is way better to downconvert so now I use 1080P for my 360. I gotta tell yah. You can spend all the money in the world and still whined up with something you aren't satisfied with if you nitpick all of its flaws. cspiffo

You know what? That makes so much F-ing sense I can't believe it. I've been slaving over the forums, searching for that one perfect set when the technology just won't let it happen right now. Believe it or not, before AVS I was going to buy a 3251D. AVS got me to buy the XBR and take a chance.

Whatever then, the screen that has the LEAST problems would be the 4096D, the biggest problem being a 1-2% overscan on it. And even then, that overscan might be eliminated through HDMI if I'm not mistaken since HDMI is conducive to 1:1 pixel mapping, plus the set has the Justscan feature as well. Should I just go ahead, get the 4096? Or pull the trigger, pray, and get a 4065F and hope the Elite doesn't have handshaking issues.

I have looked over several samsung LCD TVs, watched them in stores..

 and i have seen no isseus with them ...

The 4096 is a good set, and yes, the Turtle man makes a lot of sense

The black crush issue is likely the result of a mis-set gamma adjustment, and can/will be fixed via a firmware update should that be the case

And in all honesty, I'm thinking there's an issue with the HDMI 1.3 chips that are out there. There are so many handshaking issues it can't just be the set manufacturers or the devices.

LCD, like all the new technologies seem to be about compromises. You try to find the balance that is best for you between things that are great, and things that could be better. I know that Samsung is researching the problem right now, and I wouldn't be suprised if there's some kind of answer by June ( based on typical turnaround for diagnosis, fix development, testing and release)

The 4096 is a good set, and yes, the Turtle man makes a lot of sense

The black crush issue is likely the result of a mis-set gamma adjustment, and can/will be fixed via a firmware update should that be the case

And in all honesty, I'm thinking there's an issue with the HDMI 1.3 chips that are out there. There are so many handshaking issues it can't just be the set manufacturers or the devices.

LCD, like all the new technologies seem to be about compromises. You try to find the balance that is best for you between things that are great, and things that could be better. I know that Samsung is researching the problem right now, and I wouldn't be suprised if there's some kind of answer by June ( based on typical turnaround for diagnosis, fix development, testing and release)

Kodai_kun

I'm unfamiliar with how Samsung issues firmware updates, could u explain that? I know that the handshaking issues are not limited to any particular advice but do seem to be most common in Motorola cable boxes and the PS3.  However, I did just go to Circuit City today and was able to compare the 4661F to a 46XBR2 and the PQ blew the Sony away.  I tested the speakers and found them a bit tinny, but responsive and solid sounding (quite the opposite of the supposed quality).  I dunno, maybe those guys DON'T know everything they claim to... 

There's a USB slot on the higher end of the 4096 generation, and all the new Samsung sets. You download the patch and put it on a USB keydrive and hit the proper button sequence (dunno what it is, I don't have time for a 40MB manual download rigth now :) ) and it'll update the firmware for you.

 If you're spending all this on a TV, certainly you can afford a decent set of speakers to go with it ;) My personal recommendation is that you get yourself a nice Pioneer reciever in the $200 range and pair it with some nice polk audio speakers, and then add the center, surrounds and sub when you have more cash.

Keep in mind, these guys DO know what they're talking about, and there's simply no way those tiny drivers in that TV can put out a quality audio signal compared to a real speaker with tweeters and mids and all that.

What they're talking about is a valid thing on the black crush, but it's a subtle effect. The kind of thing that a lot of people don't notice but drives A/V nerds up a wall. It's like me and PAL speedup. From the unnatural pacing to the chipmunked voices it drives me INSANE. Even if I've never seen the movie before or heard the actors speak, I can always tell when something was originally 24 or 30fps and converted to PAL.  Other people don't notice it at all.

There's a USB slot on the higher end of the 4096 generation, and all the new Samsung sets. You download the patch and put it on a USB keydrive and hit the proper button sequence (dunno what it is, I don't have time for a 40MB manual download rigth now :) ) and it'll update the firmware for you.

If you're spending all this on a TV, certainly you can afford a decent set of speakers to go with it ;) My personal recommendation is that you get yourself a nice Pioneer reciever in the $200 range and pair it with some nice polk audio speakers, and then add the center, surrounds and sub when you have more cash.

Keep in mind, these guys DO know what they're talking about, and there's simply no way those tiny drivers in that TV can put out a quality audio signal compared to a real speaker with tweeters and mids and all that.

What they're talking about is a valid thing on the black crush, but it's a subtle effect. The kind of thing that a lot of people don't notice but drives A/V nerds up a wall. It's like me and PAL speedup. From the unnatural pacing to the chipmunked voices it drives me INSANE. Even if I've never seen the movie before or heard the actors speak, I can always tell when something was originally 24 or 30fps and converted to PAL. Other people don't notice it at all.

Kodai_kun

Thanks, I kind of thought thats what a USB 2.0 port was going to be used for, here's hoping the FW doesn't go above 4 gigs (which I doubt).  

And unfortunatley, the speakers on a TV are sort of a big deal for me.  I'm a videophile first, audiophile never.  To be honest i've never been around a quality surround sound system, and the ones I have been around were more annoying than helpful.  Plus, I just signed the lease on my first apartment, and to run all of the wires necessary for an audio setup might be a bit harder than I want to tackle at the moment.  Of course, if it's just a matter of running some wires under the carpet then I might have to take a look :).  I'll admit to only seeing black crush in a few scenes and in a few seperate instances, and it wasn't a HUGE deal, but for over 2 grand, you just expect perfection you know?  It pains me to not be able to wait for the 120hz 71 series that will get rid of all motion blur, but then again, motion blur has never been a HUGE issue for me either...I don't know.  There is some shopping to be done, and after I buy again I won't go to AVS except to get calibration advice (although if you think about it, just buying a calibration DVD and doing it that way could save me the heartache of discovering a new issue with my set's line).  What size are you gaming on kodai?   

I don't why a couple of you guys are bagging on DLP so bad. I have a 61" DLP and it's incredible, and it has everything you could ever want, HDMI inputs, 1080p, etc.Gamefan1986

They are nice to be sure, but I have the off-angle viewing.  I hate losing brightness just because I stood up for a second.  That's the only problem I have with DLP sets.  I'm not susceptible to rainbows or anything like that...I hear the LED samsungs are BETTER with off-angle viewing but still not as good as an LCD or Plasma. 

Don't listen to those audio visual spazzes you find on the internet who buy new TVs and equipment, find an issue, blow it out of proportion and return it for a different model and then repeat the process.

I bough an LCD monitor for my PC a while back and there were people who were happy with it and people throwing fits over various issues. I ran into none of the big issues and the few I could barely identify (a little light leaking in the corners) I could ONLY see when I pulled up a totally black screen and went out of my way to look for it. OH MY!

I bought an 32 inch LCD HDTV recently and some folks made fun of me because I found it for just over $500 (sale and coupon combo made the price drop from $700). The contrast ratio isn't ideal but it's also hardly noticeable, and the TV still looks far better than my old TV and saved me a ton of space over my bulbous old standard TV. One day when the prices continue to drop I'll buy a better TV for the living room but I'm cool with this TV in my office for now.

I could listen to the the hard core folks will never find equipment they're totally happy with, but what is the point of that? As for those that have found their perfect equipment and can't wait to tell me about it I often wonder if some of them are just justifying their often insanely high priced purchase... There are people who will give you ligit advice, but if you're looking for perfection you're not going to find it listening to some of the hard core audio and video fans.

duxup

Just out of curiosity - what set did you buy? I'm trying to find a decent LCD for about that price. I read in CR that the Olevia was a good buy at that price. Of course it's not as good as a Sony Bravia or a rich Samsung, but I'm trying to figure out if it will be a good buy overall. Right now, I simply have a 27 toshiba SD, which actually has a great SD picture...but still SD (CR pointed me to that one too, actually). So, if you don't mind me asking, what did you get and how satisfied are you with it? 

[QUOTE="cspiffo"]That's the one reason I don't like the AVS forums that much. You get a bunch of AV guys talkin' and they will nitpick the hell out of a piece of equipment and make it sound like a total POS. Personally, I didn't buy LCD because of the fact that it has a better screen. I bought it because it is far more easy to deal with than a hulking CRT display. I mean, if you keep looking at the flaws, which all tvs have, you will never decide on a set because THEY ALL HAVE THEIR ISSUES! I bought a cheap ass LCD display a about a year ago and I love it. I just found out a little undocumented nugget about my display the other day. It accepts a 1080P signal! Sure the display is only 1366X768, but it is way better to downconvert so now I use 1080P for my 360. I gotta tell yah. You can spend all the money in the world and still whined up with something you aren't satisfied with if you nitpick all of its flaws. TheSystemLord1

You know what? That makes so much F-ing sense I can't believe it. I've been slaving over the forums, searching for that one perfect set when the technology just won't let it happen right now. Believe it or not, before AVS I was going to buy a 3251D. AVS got me to buy the XBR and take a chance.

Whatever then, the screen that has the LEAST problems would be the 4096D, the biggest problem being a 1-2% overscan on it. And even then, that overscan might be eliminated through HDMI if I'm not mistaken since HDMI is conducive to 1:1 pixel mapping, plus the set has the Justscan feature as well. Should I just go ahead, get the 4096? Or pull the trigger, pray, and get a 4065F and hope the Elite doesn't have handshaking issues.

Just an observation - isn't cspiffo always on the money? He's one of the rare board members here (sorry, I don't mean to exclude anyone, you all seem nice enough - I just haven't happened to stumble across many of your posts) who always seems to be objective and, above all, MATURE. It is much appreciated, man. It really is.

The fact that you have raphael as your pic only augments my respect for you :) 

The store is never the place to judge picture quality. I bet it'll be far less noticeable once you calibrate it in your living room setting

I seriously doubt any firmware update would top 200MB at most, and that's being very very liberal with estimates. The USB can also be used for MP3 playback and JPG viewing

The AVS forums are a great source of knowledge, but like a few others here are saying you kind of have to take it with a grain of salt. It's like debating Fords and Chevys' in there at times, some people are just fans of certain product or in most cases models and once they are in that camp there's no getting out of their path.

I personally used that forum just to research problem product and eventually I came up with a Samsung 4095D and have been quite pleased with it. There were certain people on AVS who said it had this or that minor problem, but the majority were happy with theirs and again as said none of those guys are ever fully happy with their purchases. The only gripe I have with my Samsung and it's not really a big deal unless I'm sitting right on top of it is you get some pixelation when watching fast moving scenes. 

Previous to that I owned a CRT HD and frankly I don't know of a better picture then what those can display, but they are indeed massive and that's why I got rid of mine. It took 3 people to move it around and its mass was like having a 3rd couch you couldn't sit on :D 

The AVS forums are a great source of knowledge, but like a few others here are saying you kind of have to take it with a grain of salt. It's like debating Fords and Chevys' in there at times, some people are just fans of certain product or in most cases models and once they are in that camp there's no getting out of their path.

I personally used that forum just to research problem product and eventually I came up with a Samsung 4095D and have been quite pleased with it. There were certain people on AVS who said it had this or that minor problem, but the majority were happy with theirs and again as said none of those guys are ever fully happy with their purchases. The only gripe I have with my Samsung and it's not really a big deal unless I'm sitting right on top of it is you get some pixelation when watching fast moving scenes.

Previous to that I owned a CRT HD and frankly I don't know of a better picture then what those can display, but they are indeed massive and that's why I got rid of mine. It took 3 people to move it around and its mass was like having a 3rd couch you couldn't sit on :D

Krall

Lol to be sure, I'd probably go for either the Slimfit HDTV as a temporary solution, although I've heard wonderful things about the XBR960 from Sony.  The unfortunate thing is that it weighs close to 200 pounds, can I get a big :| lol.

I'm pricing up the 4065F's and maybe even looking at the 4665F's, the thing is that Amazon has a package deal with the 40" in which you get the Oppo 1080p upscaler DVD player...the 981 HD I believe?  That thing is amazing...oh well.  I'm gunna have some fun and make an owner's thread regardless of what I choose. 

[QUOTE="duxup"]Don't listen to those audio visual spazzes you find on the internet who buy new TVs and equipment, find an issue, blow it out of proportion and return it for a different model and then repeat the process.

I bough an LCD monitor for my PC a while back and there were people who were happy with it and people throwing fits over various issues. I ran into none of the big issues and the few I could barely identify (a little light leaking in the corners) I could ONLY see when I pulled up a totally black screen and went out of my way to look for it. OH MY!

I bought an 32 inch LCD HDTV recently and some folks made fun of me because I found it for just over $500 (sale and coupon combo made the price drop from $700). The contrast ratio isn't ideal but it's also hardly noticeable, and the TV still looks far better than my old TV and saved me a ton of space over my bulbous old standard TV. One day when the prices continue to drop I'll buy a better TV for the living room but I'm cool with this TV in my office for now.

I could listen to the the hard core folks will never find equipment they're totally happy with, but what is the point of that? As for those that have found their perfect equipment and can't wait to tell me about it I often wonder if some of them are just justifying their often insanely high priced purchase... There are people who will give you ligit advice, but if you're looking for perfection you're not going to find it listening to some of the hard core audio and video fans.

slidet22

Just out of curiosity - what set did you buy? I'm trying to find a decent LCD for about that price. I read in CR that the Olevia was a good buy at that price. Of course it's not as good as a Sony Bravia or a rich Samsung, but I'm trying to figure out if it will be a good buy overall. Right now, I simply have a 27 toshiba SD, which actually has a great SD picture...but still SD (CR pointed me to that one too, actually). So, if you don't mind me asking, what did you get and how satisfied are you with it?

 Yeah I bought the 32" Olevia. I've had it for less than a week but I'm very happy with it.  I've no doubt the Sony or Samsung 32" sets are superior.  Yet, for a TV in a small room and with plans to buy a better set after new tech shows up and prices drop further I think it is a good choice.

[QUOTE="slidet22"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]Don't listen to those audio visual spazzes you find on the internet who buy new TVs and equipment, find an issue, blow it out of proportion and return it for a different model and then repeat the process.

I bough an LCD monitor for my PC a while back and there were people who were happy with it and people throwing fits over various issues. I ran into none of the big issues and the few I could barely identify (a little light leaking in the corners) I could ONLY see when I pulled up a totally black screen and went out of my way to look for it. OH MY!

I bought an 32 inch LCD HDTV recently and some folks made fun of me because I found it for just over $500 (sale and coupon combo made the price drop from $700). The contrast ratio isn't ideal but it's also hardly noticeable, and the TV still looks far better than my old TV and saved me a ton of space over my bulbous old standard TV. One day when the prices continue to drop I'll buy a better TV for the living room but I'm cool with this TV in my office for now.

I could listen to the the hard core folks will never find equipment they're totally happy with, but what is the point of that? As for those that have found their perfect equipment and can't wait to tell me about it I often wonder if some of them are just justifying their often insanely high priced purchase... There are people who will give you ligit advice, but if you're looking for perfection you're not going to find it listening to some of the hard core audio and video fans.

duxup

Just out of curiosity - what set did you buy? I'm trying to find a decent LCD for about that price. I read in CR that the Olevia was a good buy at that price. Of course it's not as good as a Sony Bravia or a rich Samsung, but I'm trying to figure out if it will be a good buy overall. Right now, I simply have a 27 toshiba SD, which actually has a great SD picture...but still SD (CR pointed me to that one too, actually). So, if you don't mind me asking, what did you get and how satisfied are you with it?

Yeah I bought the 32" Olevia. I've had it for less than a week but I'm very happy with it. I've no doubt the Sony or Samsung 32" sets are superior. Yet, for a TV in a small room and with plans to buy a better set after new tech shows up and prices drop further I think it is a good choice.

Thanks. I'm starting to narrow down my choices. I'd say Olevia is right up there, but I'm also looking at the slimfit Samsung models as well. I have another thread showing which ones I'm interested in. CR indicated that the pics weren't that great on those, but I'm not sure if the ones I have are newer or even tested by CR. I also don't know how they compare to the Olevias. Is the difference really going to be that big? I mean, they're still CRT sets - I'm sure the black levels and SD pictures are at least GOOD. You have any thoughts on that? 

I have a Sony 34XBR960 and everytime my friends come over (who own new plasma/lcd models) are always drooling over my tv set when playing 360.  I guess I'm used to it by now but IMO when I take a look at all the 1080p lcds at circuit city, I find them to be blurry and just overall not that impressive for the pricetag it sports. 

I imagine not everyone is willing to lug around a 200lb monster and that's understandable.  In my case, all it took was to get the thing into my house and positioned on the stand in the corner and that was all.  I haven't moved it around or experienced any heart or muscle ache.  The only thing I recieve is viewing pleasure.  

To each his own, but if your dead set on paying alot of money for an lcd then do yourself a favor and NEVER stare at a properly calibrated Sony XBR960 because it would ruin you!  LOL  

All jokes aside, Circuit City had a special deal recently on the Sony 34XBR970 crt for only $600.  This tv is probably the next best hd crt model.  I doubt anything else can compare with its picture quality no matter what the technology or price unless it's the XBR960.  I may be wrong but from what I've seen... it looks about identical to my XBR960 (despite the lower resolution).  1080p is a gimmick flat out and never let anyone tell you otherwise.  I've proved this with hd-dvd movies and games like Vitrua Tennis 3 and my XBR960 not only is quite a bit SHARPER then 1080p counterparts... but I can make out more detail in the image as well.  This would go against what most enthusiasts would say.  You really should check it out and take the challenge for yourself before you pull the trigger an any tv.  

But as long as your satisfied with your purchase then that's what it's all about.  Satisfying the customer, in which this case is you.  Nobody else can rip out your eyeballs and swap them.  Yes only you can be the judge of what is best for yourself and I and others can only assist.

I have a Sony 34XBR960 and everytime my friends come over (who own new plasma/lcd models) are always drooling over my tv set when playing 360. I guess I'm used to it by now but IMO when I take a look at all the 1080p lcds at circuit city, I find them to be blurry and just overall not that impressive for the pricetag it sports.

I imagine not everyone is willing to lug around a 200lb monster and that's understandable. In my case, all it took was to get the thing into my house and positioned on the stand in the corner and that was all. I haven't moved it around or experienced any heart or muscle ache. The only thing I recieve is viewing pleasure.

To each his own, but if your dead set on paying alot of money for an lcd then do yourself a favor and NEVER stare at a properly calibrated Sony XBR960 because it would ruin you! LOL

All jokes aside, Circuit City had a special deal recently on the Sony 34XBR970 crt for only $600. This tv is probably the next best hd crt model. I doubt anything else can compare with its picture quality no matter what the technology or price unless it's the XBR960. I may be wrong but from what I've seen... it looks about identical to my XBR960 (despite the lower resolution). 1080p is a gimmick flat out and never let anyone tell you otherwise. I've proved this with hd-dvd movies and games like Vitrua Tennis 3 and my XBR960 not only is quite a bit SHARPER then 1080p counterparts... but I can make out more detail in the image as well. This would go against what most enthusiasts would say. You really should check it out and take the challenge for yourself before you pull the trigger an any tv.

But as long as your satisfied with your purchase then that's what it's all about. Satisfying the customer, in which this case is you. Nobody else can rip out your eyeballs and swap them. Yes only you can be the judge of what is best for yourself and I and others can only assist.

oldskooler79

My parents have the exact same tv. I'm considering buying that one, too. The only thing that makes me hesitant is that I hate having to make others move that darn thing. If I could ensure that it would be simple to move, I'd honestly consider it...I just don't know, though. Bencing 200 lbs isn't bad, but grabbing onto something that awkward is...well...awkward. The picture is undeniably the best I've ever seen, though. It looks like it is being discontinued, too :( If they could even make it 50 lbs lighter, that would help SO much! That's why I'm considering the samsung slimfit. Unfortunately, I suspect the picture quality drops significantly...can't say for sure, though. 

[QUOTE="oldskooler79"]

I have a Sony 34XBR960 and everytime my friends come over (who own new plasma/lcd models) are always drooling over my tv set when playing 360. I guess I'm used to it by now but IMO when I take a look at all the 1080p lcds at circuit city, I find them to be blurry and just overall not that impressive for the pricetag it sports.

I imagine not everyone is willing to lug around a 200lb monster and that's understandable. In my case, all it took was to get the thing into my house and positioned on the stand in the corner and that was all. I haven't moved it around or experienced any heart or muscle ache. The only thing I recieve is viewing pleasure.

To each his own, but if your dead set on paying alot of money for an lcd then do yourself a favor and NEVER stare at a properly calibrated Sony XBR960 because it would ruin you! LOL

All jokes aside, Circuit City had a special deal recently on the Sony 34XBR970 crt for only $600. This tv is probably the next best hd crt model. I doubt anything else can compare with its picture quality no matter what the technology or price unless it's the XBR960. I may be wrong but from what I've seen... it looks about identical to my XBR960 (despite the lower resolution). 1080p is a gimmick flat out and never let anyone tell you otherwise. I've proved this with hd-dvd movies and games like Vitrua Tennis 3 and my XBR960 not only is quite a bit SHARPER then 1080p counterparts... but I can make out more detail in the image as well. This would go against what most enthusiasts would say. You really should check it out and take the challenge for yourself before you pull the trigger an any tv.

But as long as your satisfied with your purchase then that's what it's all about. Satisfying the customer, in which this case is you. Nobody else can rip out your eyeballs and swap them. Yes only you can be the judge of what is best for yourself and I and others can only assist.

slidet22

My parents have the exact same tv. I'm considering buying that one, too. The only thing that makes me hesitant is that I hate having to make others move that darn thing. If I could ensure that it would be simple to move, I'd honestly consider it...I just don't know, though. Bencing 200 lbs isn't bad, but grabbing onto something that awkward is...well...awkward. The picture is undeniably the best I've ever seen, though. It looks like it is being discontinued, too :( If they could even make it 50 lbs lighter, that would help SO much! That's why I'm considering the samsung slimfit. Unfortunately, I suspect the picture quality drops significantly...can't say for sure, though.

The XBR960 is considered to be the best CRT HDTV ever made.  Unfortunatley it is now all but extinct.  To the man who owns one, consider yourself lucky to have a working one. 

Sure, LCD has flaws, but Plasmas, DLPs and LCoS flaws are bigger in my honest opinion. I frequent the AVS forums, and I like the reading and posting there, but again, you have to understand these threads search for *perfection*. Every product has flaws. Personally, I found the perfect TV for me to be a 46" Bravia V2500. 1080p, 2 HDMI, WCG backlight... but you know what? It has some clouding. You know what? I don't care. You hardly ever notice it, basically only when the screen is completely black, and it's just a *hint* like, black with a circle or two of a deep navy blue.

This year I might switch to a 46" XBR4, or 52" if they aren't *too* outrageously priced, but again, with any tech there will be problems, it's finding the tech that works the best for you, because certain situations and applications can minimize different flaws. My lady and I usually watch movies with a lamp on, because I don't like staring at a screen in the dark, and you know what? LCDs blacks are instantly blacker, and the clouding is gone. Voila! So if you settle down about some of these *issues* that are practically non-issues, you'll find a display perfect for you.

Personally, I think plasma is quickly being outdated by LCD, LCoS is better than DLP and LCD projection, but still has viewing angle problems, as well as bulb issues, and OLED, and SED are quite a while away. So I took the LCD plunge, I'm sure you wouldn't regret it if you did as well. 

I have a Sony 34XBR960 and everytime my friends come over (who own new plasma/lcd models) are always drooling over my tv set when playing 360. I guess I'm used to it by now but IMO when I take a look at all the 1080p lcds at circuit city, I find them to be blurry and just overall not that impressive for the pricetag it sports.

I imagine not everyone is willing to lug around a 200lb monster and that's understandable. In my case, all it took was to get the thing into my house and positioned on the stand in the corner and that was all. I haven't moved it around or experienced any heart or muscle ache. The only thing I recieve is viewing pleasure.

To each his own, but if your dead set on paying alot of money for an lcd then do yourself a favor and NEVER stare at a properly calibrated Sony XBR960 because it would ruin you! LOL

All jokes aside, Circuit City had a special deal recently on the Sony 34XBR970 crt for only $600. This tv is probably the next best hd crt model. I doubt anything else can compare with its picture quality no matter what the technology or price unless it's the XBR960. I may be wrong but from what I've seen... it looks about identical to my XBR960 (despite the lower resolution). 1080p is a gimmick flat out and never let anyone tell you otherwise. I've proved this with hd-dvd movies and games like Vitrua Tennis 3 and my XBR960 not only is quite a bit SHARPER then 1080p counterparts... but I can make out more detail in the image as well. This would go against what most enthusiasts would say. You really should check it out and take the challenge for yourself before you pull the trigger an any tv.

But as long as your satisfied with your purchase then that's what it's all about. Satisfying the customer, in which this case is you. Nobody else can rip out your eyeballs and swap them. Yes only you can be the judge of what is best for yourself and I and others can only assist.

oldskooler79

Sure, LCD has flaws, but Plasmas, DLPs and LCoS flaws are bigger in my honest opinion. I frequent the AVS forums, and I like the reading and posting there, but again, you have to understand these threads search for *perfection*. Every product has flaws. Personally, I found the perfect TV for me to be a 46" Bravia V2500. 1080p, 2 HDMI, WCG backlight... but you know what? It has some clouding. You know what? I don't care. You hardly ever notice it, basically only when the screen is completely black, and it's just a *hint* like, black with a circle or two of a deep navy blue.

This year I might switch to a 46" XBR4, or 52" if they aren't *too* outrageously priced, but again, with any tech there will be problems, it's finding the tech that works the best for you, because certain situations and applications can minimize different flaws. My lady and I usually watch movies with a lamp on, because I don't like staring at a screen in the dark, and you know what? LCDs blacks are instantly blacker, and the clouding is gone. Voila! So if you settle down about some of these *issues* that are practically non-issues, you'll find a display perfect for you.

Personally, I think plasma is quickly being outdated by LCD, LCoS is better than DLP and LCD projection, but still has viewing angle problems, as well as bulb issues, and OLED, and SED are quite a while away. So I took the LCD plunge, I'm sure you wouldn't regret it if you did as well.

playwithfire17

46" XBR4 = the end of your kid's college fund

52" XBR4 = a second mortgage 

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, that screen size is too small for me, and I wouldn't want something so bulky or heavy in my living room because I don't like needing to call over a friend to help me move stuff. I don't like the geometry issues or shaky scanning on Hi-scan 1080i's, meanwhile this person dislikes 1080p LCD for reasons of his own. 2 different technologies, 2 different settings, 2 happy customers. You'll never find a perfect display (at least not at a comfortable price), but there are always smart options out there.playwithfire17

As I mentioned...I can understand the reason that many are adopting the bigger lcds.  Size, weight, and form factor are all legit reasons.  But one thing I guess I'll never understand is when ppl say they would have a hard time moving the CRT around.  For under $1000 you can have picture quality that rivals that of lcd and have it installed in your home today without picking up a finger (exept to write the check at the store).

All you have to do is run down to the nearest Circuit City and pick up a ticket for the Sony 34XBR970 (since 960 is sold out).  Right now it will run you $599.  Then a couple hundred extra to have them deliver the set and install it in your home.  What more do you want?  Why in the world are ppl moving around their hdtvs so much?  From all the whining I hear about....it's like they move their tv on a daily basis or something.  Your tv should remain in one spot until you move out..or either changing rooms which shouldn't be that often.  So for me it was no big deal.

I've heard of the geometry issues but I have experienced none.  Also, I have no clue what shaky scanning is on 1080i displays.  The XBR960 and 970 are both 1080i displays and I can assure you that for the hundreds of hours I've watched movies and played games that I'm in heaven with this tv and see plenty a more flaws in lcds such as pixel crawl, blurring in fast motion, sudden drop in black levels, light bleeding, etc.  The new 1080p sets are much better and if I had a couple thousand dollars lying around then I may then consider getting one, although I'de take a massive hit in picture quality...which to me isn't worth the bigger size.  I'm not the one to sit sit further back from the set to see the same if not worse picture.  I don't mind scooting up a few feet for a perfect picture EVERYTIME whether that be DVD, HD-DVD, 360, Wii, or even VHS.. which looks near DVD...which looks near HD...which looks so good it's downright SCARY.  Looking throuth a window 3-d effect is somthing lcd and plasmas claim.  I scoff at that proposal...I really do.   Even today when viewing HD of any sort on my XBR960 it gives me chills everytime when seated up close (I can almost touch my nose to the screen without noticing grid pattern) if it weren't for a 200lb monster of a tv set there I'de swear that the actors were in my room.  Forget looking through a window.  To each his own (and I respect your opinion).

To the topic creater-

Don't worry about XBR960s being discontinued.  Just pick up an XBR970 for $599 at CC right now.  I can promise you that you won't find a better picture in the store.  I can also gladly say that it stacks up well to the XBR960.  In fact, from viewing it at the store recently with it's crappy coaxial connection... I had to double check what model it was.  If it weren't for the obvious difference in color on the set, I seriously thought I was looking at the 960.  The one thing the 970 has over the 960 is the brightness.  Due to not including the Super Fine Pitch tube, the image appears brighter by nature which you may or may not like.  I personally like it.  The Super Fine Pitch causes a darker image no matter how you tweat it.. yet it yields an ever so slight boost in resolution.  The boost is hardly visable to the naked eye with a 34" set such as mine unless sitting within 3 feet or so.   

XBR is probably the only Sony electronic product I would touch these days. They are drool material for sure :)

You can always do what I did when I had my CRT HD, I went out and bought 4 heavy casters and built a beefy TV stand that could roll around the whole house :D So it only had to move on top of the stand one last time after that.  

No matter what the quality, CRTs are wayyy on the way out, if for no other reason,because LCDs are sexy.

CRT is the best picture quality, but really limited to about 36" due to size, weight, and the realities of making picture tubes.

After that, it's all about compromise.

Hmm. The XBR 1080i tubes sound like a worthy purchase, I haven't seen a Sony one, but every other 1080i tube tv I've seen has had the picture "shake" noticeably on the screen. Sounds like this one would be a worthy purchase.

 And again, with more towards different situations for different displays. The individual who owns the Sony tube owns a VCR, and watches SDTV. Any of the shows I have time to watch for are rarely SD, I admit, Wii looks pretty poor on my Bravia, but definitely better than last-gen systems, and aside from that I have a nice DVD player and a 360, and they both look amazing. My Bravia also makes a really nice monitor :).

FYI on the XBR960:

1. Great set.  Shame it's discontinued. It was one heck of a set.

2. When CNET tests any video products, it's source standard is the 960.

3. I wanted to get one, problem was the price was $1900.  I ended up getting a 30" in the XS955 line.  decent set.  Got it at a considerable discount.  Knocked $300 of the price.

4. The 970 is a stripped down version of the 960.  It's a 34" version of what I have.  Still, If it goes down to the aforementioned price of $600, I'm so there. 

Why not wait till the Panasonic 1080p Plasma's are affordable? The 50" is already $2800 at fotoconnection.com, it will be under $2000 in no time

And to hell with the Oppo, get a Toshiba HDXA2 HD-DVD player, it's the best HD DVD player, and wayy better at upscaling DVD's then an Oppo

Whether its banding on the Sharps, Clouding on Samsungs/Sonys, dead pixels, stuck pixels, terrible SD viewing, overscan, HDMI dropouts on the new samsung lines, lip sync issues and audio issues, motion blur and refresh rate issues, I'm done, the technology is worthless.

Any ideas on good CRT HDTV sets? I refuse to go DLP because its useless as well (i have no desire to sit in a direct angle right in front of the TV).

TheSystemLord1

thats why you buy a extended warranty. I do that with all Big electronical purchages. 

What are you doing buying a S*ny or S*ms*ng?
Nearly all LCD screens are over 720P. Yes, standard Definintion is going to look bad on LCD screens.
Stuck pixels and dead pixels... don't you test the display before you buy it from the store? Common sense these days...
VGA and and DVI are just fine.
Motion blur, refresh rates? never buy anything above 8MS, make sure its at least 60Hz.
Why are you using the speakers that came with the TV? TV speakers suck most of the time.

In America, you don't own technology, the technology owns YOU.

/end rant.HostileEffect

Lol. Pwnt. 

Extended warranties will often not cover any of these things, as they're compatibility issues, not hardware issues. You're not guaranteed it'll work with any device in particular.

And most of the time (though I've heard of some that will) they will not cover new bulbs in a projection set

didn't read a lot of the posts here so I'm just going to throw this one in there. CRT displays are a joke for desktop computer use

 Most definately not

My 21" Trinitron CRT does well over 1080p resolution, and is the monitor of choice for graphic designers, special FX artists, and everything in between

They all HATE The LCD craze.

Reason why I don't want live.HostileEffect

:lol: OMG that's hilarious!

Or, get the new Samsung Blu-Ray player that features the same exact scaling chip, for not that much more money, and take much less of a risk of having an upscaling doorstop later.Kodai_kun

Spare me the fanboy FUD 

Or, get the new Samsung Blu-Ray player that features the same exact scaling chip, for not that much more money, and take much less of a risk of having an upscaling doorstop later.Kodai_kun

Spare me the fanboy FUD

FUD is disinformation based on cherry picked "facts" that don't hold up to careful analysis. Unfortunately there's nothing in my post that would qualify. 

By the middle of June, based on the current trends, BR will be outselling HD-DVD 3-1 on a weekly basis, with an installed base that's somewhere around 300,000 to 4 million. Combined with the mass studio and industry support (Everyone but Toshiba and Universal of the majors), and the lack of exclusive titles, it's over, and due to the massive install base deficit, combined with the much more vulnerable copy protection means none of the exclusive studios are going anywhere near HD-DVD.

I'm suprised you made that statement, seeing the "reserve the PS3" in your sig.

Samsung's is the flat out WORST BluRay player, period. How dare you

 The new model, not the old crappy one

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9676443-5.html

Does this one read media @ 1080i like the old one did? Or does it actually support reading 1080p60 data? The biggest weakness of the BDP-1000 was that it read internally at 1080i60, then deinterlaced the content to 1080p30. Compared to the HD-A1 from Toshiba that did read the content internally at 1080p60, but didn't have the video horsepower to output at the same level.

And now that LG has finally released their player that can play both BluRay and HD-DVD, why the hell should we have to choose? Since it's apparent that Hollywood refuses to make up its mind, why should I have to commit to a single format? Let me get a device that can play both and I'm good to go. If they can't decide, why should I be forced to choose?

Does this one read media @ 1080i like the old one did? Or does it actually support reading 1080p60 data? The biggest weakness of the BDP-1000 was that it read internally at 1080i60, then deinterlaced the content to 1080p30. Compared to the HD-A1 from Toshiba that did read the content internally at 1080p60, but didn't have the video horsepower to output at the same level

No one has actually gotten their hands on the deck yet, as they haven't been shipped so no one knows. He was recommending the Toshiba based on its upscaling strength, and I simply pointed out the new Samsung deck shares the same chip while being more futureproofed.

And now that LG has finally released their player that can play both BluRay and HD-DVD, why the hell should we have to choose?

Because it's not a combo player. It's a kludge. You can't access anything but the video streams, and only the videostreams it can parse for HD-DVD. Furthermore, you can get a Toshiba A2 and the Samsung or the new Sony player(or a PS3) for less than you'd pay for the combo, so why buy 1 mediocre quality LG player that only half works, when you can have a good pair for less money?