Is Planescape Torment the best RPG ever made?

No. Fallout 2 is. Cerussite

While Fallout 2 was utterly brilliant, it's still only second best to Torment. :P

Not just the best RPG ever made, the best game ever DESIGNED.Rottenberry

true true !!!

If Torment was remade with FULL voice acting (the most important part for me in an RPG, I'm playing a game not a book), cinematic and emotional cutscenes like in MGS and Mass Effect (IMO Mass Effect is the best RPG ever just because of how much cinematic and emotional the story is), view like in NwN 2 (and of course 3d graphics) and was made a bit longer THEN it would be the best RPG ever made, but in this state it's not even even in my TOP 5 RPGs of all time nor is any older RPG that doesn't have (or has only a little) voice acting

definitely one of the top 5.

1. bg2

2. fallout

3. fallout 2

4. ultima 7

5. planescape: torment

For me, I always include Torment as a sub-variation of Baldur's Gate, which is on my top 3. I feel that no matter if you prefer 1 or the other, they are a different part of the same global thing. The modron is definitely nice, and Fall-from-Grace is not without interest, remind me a girl who wouldn't understand what NO means. :P

Top 1 is on the left (GOLD BOXES). :) The other great thing is City of Villains, despite all the flaws, the poor balancing, the nerfs in the name of balancing (which worsen the balancing issues, never even remotedly solve anything), the MMO component allows you to play with real peoples, which is definitely nice.

If Torment was remade with FULL voice acting (the most important part for me in an RPG, I'm playing a game not a book), cinematic and emotional cutscenes like in MGS and Mass Effect (IMO Mass Effect is the best RPG ever just because of how much cinematic and emotional the story is), view like in NwN 2 (and of course 3d graphics) and was made a bit longer THEN it would be the best RPG ever made, but in this state it's not even even in my TOP 5 RPGs of all time nor is any older RPG that doesn't have (or has only a little) voice acting

Darth_Kane

[QUOTE="Darth_Kane"]

If Torment was remade with FULL voice acting (the most important part for me in an RPG, I'm playing a game not a book), cinematic and emotional cutscenes like in MGS and Mass Effect (IMO Mass Effect is the best RPG ever just because of how much cinematic and emotional the story is), view like in NwN 2 (and of course 3d graphics) and was made a bit longer THEN it would be the best RPG ever made, but in this state it's not even even in my TOP 5 RPGs of all time nor is any older RPG that doesn't have (or has only a little) voice acting

Rottenberry

No, I read books (about 1 per month), but I want games to be more like movies (that's why my all-time favourite game is Metal Gear Solid 1). Besides reading a book in a monitor is hard and stupid. When I play older RPGs, at first I read the text, but after an hour it gets boring and I skip most of the text and I can't play older RPGs for more than 2 straight hours while in newer RPGs in my first playthrough I play them for 8 straight hours and still want more (I have to sleep sometime you know). I Barely managed to finsih NwN 1, Fallout series and Torment because they got boring after an hour or 2 because of the text (never actually finished Baldur's Gate and IceWind Dale, I'll wait for the NwN 2 modules remakes). And all that RTS view is just stupid, most of the time I can't notice some doors

For me, older RPGs aren't in the least bit addictive and wouldn't play them a second time (Torment is an exeption)

While it is not a PC RPG, Chrono Trigger must be in any conversation about the best RPG of all time. ShadyKidd

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Please don't insult the genre by calling J"RPGs" role playing games

JRPGs aren't real RPGs. They are action adventure games. There are no choices (in dialogue or quest, you can't choose be good or evil), no consequences, no customization( in most J"RPGs" you can't choose your race and class and and every one of them you can't costumise your face), too linear... Where's the ROLE PLAYING in that ? I'm always forced to be the good guy!

In RPGs the character you are controlling is supposed to be like you (that's why it's called ROLE PLAYING)

I still like them, but they aren't RPGs

Japanese games have the most unoriginal and repetitive stories ever

In every last one of them it's: "you killed my master or destroyed my village, now you want to conquer the world and I the girly virgin teenager that is afraid of girls and has huge eyes with my yu-gi-oh hair and my oversized blade will stop you"

Play Planescape: Torment, The Witcher or KOTOR and see what true role playing means

I honestly think Vampire Bloodlines: The Masquerade wasn't anything too special. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely atmospheric and had a pretty engrossing story, but I just think it isn't really that pinnacle of RPGs that I often see people make it out to be. I think that a big reason people tend to give it so much praise is because it was made by Troika.Rottenberry

The reason I consider Bloodlines the best RPG ever made is because, amongst numerous other reasons, experience is only awarded for completing quests. And what this means is that there's a very strong focus on how you complete the quests. In just about all other RPGs I've played, you complete a quest by fighting your way to the end of it. There may be some options, but you're pretty much going to fight there and that's it.

As an example, I may want to be a thief/assassin. Why, then, is that thief fighting enemies toe to toe? That's not how a thief would operate - in most cases, the thief would not fight at all. In Bloodlines, there's a number of ways each quest can be completed, and your own playstyle defers to that of your class. A stealthy character would literally be a stealthy character - you would not fight, except on rare occasion, and you would lose little or nothing in not fighting, because experience is earned through completing quests, and items are of little value.

And, to me, that's what roleplaying is. Most RPGs totally miss this entire concept - but Troika seems to be one of the few - or only - developers to make games with actual roleplaying.

Playing the game as a Gangrel, then a Malkavian, then a Nosferatu gives a radically different experience each time, while in all other roleplaying games I've played, the core experience is pretty much just the same, and the only thing that changes is how you fight your enemies.

I didn't know who Troika was when I bought the game, and I wasn't a huge fan of RPGs - but Bloodlines made me realise that I wasn't very fond of the genre because so few were actually that good.

[QUOTE="ShadyKidd"]While it is not a PC RPG, Chrono Trigger must be in any conversation about the best RPG of all time. Darth_Kane

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Please don't insult the genre by calling J"RPGs" role playing games

JRPGs aren't real RPGs. They are action adventure games. There are no choices (in dialogue or quest, you can't choose be good or evil), no consequences, no customization( in most J"RPGs" you can't choose your race and class and and every one of them you can't costumise your face), too linear... Where's the ROLE PLAYING in that ? I'm always forced to be the good guy!

In RPGs the character you are controlling is supposed to be like you (that's why it's called ROLE PLAYING)

I still like them, but they aren't RPGs

Japanese games have the most unoriginal and repetitive stories ever

In every last one of them it's: "you killed my master or destroyed my village, now you want to conquer the world and I the girly virgin teenager that is afraid of girls and has huge eyes with my yu-gi-oh hair and my oversized blade will stop you"

Play Planescape: Torment, The Witcher or KOTOR and see what true role playing means

Games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Lost Odyssey, etc, may not be like traditional rpg(s) but I like that they are different and quite enjoy playing them. I personally do consider them to be rpg.

I'm not a huge JRPG fan, but seriously, how can you fault Chrono Trigger? CT is a damn dood RPG.

My top 5 RPGs (in no particular order):

Baldur's Gate

Fallout

Planescape

Sakkatsuku / Let's make a pro soccer team (.jp soccer simulation/rpg)

And..Chrono Trigger!

CT was definitly a good game

Hey, I enjoy J"RPGs" and never said that J"RPGs" suck just that they aren't role playing gamesDarth_Kane

So I take it you don't consider GlodBox games RPG's? Stop being so elitist. Anyways Planescape uses a heavily narrative style, it simply would not work in a cinematic sense, if you don't like to read than you would not enjoy the game and as you mentioned you never finished it, why would you want a remake of it anyways? Mfsa described what every good rpg should strive for but many of the clans do play similarly, and the quests become increasingly actiony towards the end. VtM:B is not the only RPG to include those features, its implementation of them is just different.

Oh and MotB is awesome;

City of Judgment

Bound in blackened leather, the pages of this tome are brittle and cracked. The text is barely legible, faded and written in a spidery hand:

"In my dream I saw a city, gray and forbidding, beneath an empty sky. Before its gates came a hideous procession-all the dead of the world, of a hundred worlds, awaiting the judgment of the gods.

And around the gray city loomed the Wall. Its bricks were souls, mortared by foul green mold. These souls were the Faithless, who had denied the gods in life, or had never truly believed.

I drew nearer the Wall, and at once I heard the screams of those Faithless souls, 'Cursed are we,' they cried, 'who denied the jealous gods and now are forsaken.' And other voices answered them... saying 'Remember the Betrayer's Crusade. Remember the Betrayer, who swore to bring down the Wall. Have patience, for the Betrayer may yet return...'

After this, the original text has faded so badly that it is illegible. But someone has scribbled feverishly in the margin: "Another reference to the Betrayer's Crusade... though Myrkul's priests deny its existence. The truth is in their vaults... in the whispering scrolls... The Lamentations of the Dead..."

definitely one of the top 5.

1. bg2

2. fallout

3. fallout 2

4. ultima 7

5. planescape: torment

fireandcloud

Firencloud like your list i second it )...

[QUOTE="Darth_Kane"]Hey, I enjoy J"RPGs" and never said that J"RPGs" suck just that they aren't role playing gamesNikalai_88

So I take it you don't consider GlodBox games RPG's? Stop being so elitist. Anyways Planescape uses a heavily narrative style, it simply would not work in a cinematic sense, if you don't like to read than you would not enjoy the game and as you mentioned you never finished it, why would you want a remake of it anyways? Mfsa described what every good rpg should strive for but many of the clans do play similarly, and the quests become increasingly actiony towards the end. VtM:B is not the only RPG to include those features, its implementation of them is just different.

er...what's GlodBox games?

I'm not asking for a voice-over over the stuff the nameless one reads, just the things he says (like Mass Effect) and everything every character in the game says. And I did finish Torment and it was a great game, but it would had been 10 times better with the stuff I said

If you're going to drop the Bloodlines card on the table (I personally see this game as far, far from the pinnacle of RPG excellence) then I'm going to have to trump you with Deus Ex, a masterpiece of a game.

I thought KOTOR was excellent too.

I have to admit I can't ever get past the beginning of PT, it bores the hell out of me but I keep hearing it's excellent and I'm eager to try and get into it since I love story/dialogue driven games.

I've played BG2, Fallout 2, PS:T, and their all great games, but to say JRPG's arent role playing games is just stupid.

yes.

I beg to differ, and say Baldur's Gate II.

But then again, I prefer high fantasy.

[QUOTE="ShadyKidd"]While it is not a PC RPG, Chrono Trigger must be in any conversation about the best RPG of all time. Darth_Kane

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Please don't insult the genre by calling J"RPGs" role playing games

JRPGs aren't real RPGs. They are action adventure games. There are no choices (in dialogue or quest, you can't choose be good or evil), no consequences, no customization( in most J"RPGs" you can't choose your race and class and and every one of them you can't costumise your face), too linear... Where's the ROLE PLAYING in that ? I'm always forced to be the good guy!

In RPGs the character you are controlling is supposed to be like you (that's why it's called ROLE PLAYING)

I still like them, but they aren't RPGs

Japanese games have the most unoriginal and repetitive stories ever

In every last one of them it's: "you killed my master or destroyed my village, now you want to conquer the world and I the girly virgin teenager that is afraid of girls and has huge eyes with my yu-gi-oh hair and my oversized blade will stop you"

Play Planescape: Torment, The Witcher or KOTOR and see what true role playing means

what a butt load of biased crap, lol. ah well, glad i'm not the one with a narrow mind here.

to the OP - i don't think Torment is the best RPG ever. RPG is a wide-encompassing genre that covers alot of hugely different sub-genre. Some focus on story and characters, like Torment; some focus on action, like the hack and slash Diablo or Titan Quest games. Torment can be alot of things - good ones at that - but the combat and levelling in that gamewas extremely weak, almost a mockery to the grandeur of AD&D setting. thus, as much as i like that game, i wouldn't call it the best rpg ever. I don't even consider it to be the best of AD&D rpgs, for that matter.

PS - Chris Avellone, the lead designer of Torment, LOVED Final Fantasy 7, from which he took alot of inspiration while creating Torment. there you go, haters. ;)