Is Steam the best example to combat PC piracy?

I have been thinking, Valve might be the one company that have been able to significantly stamp out piracy of their PC games. I remember when Half-Life 2 came out someone from Valve said that the number of working illegal copies of Half-Life 2 is very, very, very small. I remember reading on forums people trying to figure out a way to run the cracked version of Half-Life 2 with no success whatsoever. I think even to this day no has successfully figured out a way to crack Half-Life 2 without going through many hoops. It was amusing to see that these pirates could crack all these other games but they can't seem to do that with Half-Life 2.

Not only that Steam has methods to determine that even if you do manage to create an account and authenticate an illegal copy the methods in place to determine if it is an illegal copy or not. They used this method to ban thousands of accounts where the illegal versionof Half-Life 2 wasbeing played:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4041289.stm

In addition, I just love Steam's way of doing things where once you buy the game it's locked to your account and you have the game forever. You don't need to worry about losing your DVD/CD key for the game, or the DVD/CD itself. If you have the game you could install it on any computer, anywhere, anytime, as long as you log in with your account. I think this might explain the extremely low piracy rate for Valve games like Half-Life 2 or Left 4 Dead (correct me if I am wrong).

So, is Steam's method of forcing people to create an account and authenticate the game, the best solution to PC piracy? I think so, because most people have the internet so buying the game and creating an account to authenticate the game is no issue.In 3rd World Countries where piracy is rampant, many of the people don't even have internet connection, so it's not like they are going to buy the game anyways. So with this method they will not be able to play Valve games unless they actually buy the game.

So, what do you guys think? Has Valve found the holy grail to eliminate PC piracy?

Steam games have long been cracked. It just takes a little more effort than standard cd checks.

The example with HL2 was tough to crack because it was one of the first major Steam-DRM releases. After a few months, that was cracked too.

However, if you're talking about it from the consumer side, then yes, Steam is probably the most convinient DRM system.

But what is the piracy ratio of Steam games. Half-Life 2 sold over 6 million copies. Does anyone have stats as to how many pirated copies of Valve games are VS games from other companies?

But what is the piracy ratio of Steam games. Half-Life 2 sold over 6 million copies. Does anyone have stats as to how many pirated copies of Valve games are VS games from other companies?

Xtasy26

you can't compare Half Life 2, a game people have been waiting for a number of years, to "other companies".

It sold well because it was a great game, not because Steam can't be cracked

On Half-Life 2:

It had a release date of September 2003, but was delayed. This pushing back of HL2's release date came in the wake of the cracking of Valve's internal network[63] through a null session connection to Tangis which was hosted in Valve's network and a subsequent upload of an ASP shell, resulting in the leak of the game's source code and many other files including maps, models and a playable early version of Half-Life Source and Counter-Strike Source in early September 2003.Wikipedia

I agree that was pretty bad.

But did someone finds stats for Left 4 Dead for the PC or for the matter any other Valve games and thier piracy ratio.

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

steam games take longer time to get cracked but they dont work 100% because the cracked games dont really install, the just jumble all the files in a folder.

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

Reminds me about a swedish politican that said "Pirates = rapeists" and there was like a media outcry towards her lol..

Oh well... Steam once did help... Because it was new and shiny... Like everything new it takes a moment to get past the defence. Once past they will have a easier time to crack any feature games using that protection system.

Anyway its kinda how some people say "you should throw them all into jail" and then you look at the nr of swedish people that do it (around half of the population)... Just build some walls around sweden lol :D

And... I cant agree with people that sell software made by others.

And errr i cant say i feel sorry for the publishers when they release games in some countries where a game = their income that month... O.o

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Empirefrtw

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

[QUOTE="Empirefrtw"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

yes and that is why i laugh everytime i see them spending 100 000's$ on copy protecting that work for 10min... I mean whats the point?

Well if their goal is to bore the crackers by using the same copy protecting system maybe it might work...

Oh and for your information:

Music, Movie, game market is increasing overall each year...

Reminds me when they wrote "yeah we have 15% more money then last year! Damn these pirates!!! If there was no pirates we would have 200% more!!!"

*roll eyes*

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Empirefrtw"] Those are quite different things while I agree pirates are bad and so are the crackers they can not compare to some one who physically harms people those are two different levels of crimes.KalDurenik

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

yes and that is why i laugh everytime i see them spending 100 000's$ on copy protecting that work for 10min... I mean whats the point?

Well if their goal is to bore the crackers by using the same copy protecting system maybe it might work...

Oh and for your information:

Music, Movie, game market is increasing overall each year...

Reminds me when they wrote "yeah we have 15% more money then last year! Damn these pirates!!! If there was no pirates we would have 200% more!!!"

*roll eyes*

So what you're saying is stealing is justified as long as who they're stealing from makes a profit?

Do you also toss all the extra money you have away or do you just expect everyone else to do it?

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

Jaysonguy

I'd rather take a look at people who actually had success in the industry despite piracy. That's the example to follow. Those who were destined to fail received what they deserved.

Publishers don't "need" to counter these pirates...that's a thing YOU made up. A copy protection system is just a false sense of safety that should be scrapped once cracked.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

Mograine

I'd rather take a look at people who actually had success in the industry despite piracy. That's the example to follow. Those who were destined to fail received what they deserved.

Publishers don't "need" to counter these pirates...that's a thing YOU made up. A copy protection system is just a false sense of safety that should be scrapped once cracked.

Wha?

So again you're in the "it's ok to steal as long as they make a profit" camp?

Publishers do need to counter pirates because the ordinary person doesn't, I've turned friends over for having cracked games and they paid a price (literally) and that's fine and I find that too many people have a blurred sense of right and wrong when it comes to stealing and wouldn't do the same thing.

Again, we're back to "see the pedophile call the police" and "oh cracked game, well what are you going to do?"

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

Jaysonguy

I'd rather take a look at people who actually had success in the industry despite piracy. That's the example to follow. Those who were destined to fail received what they deserved.

Publishers don't "need" to counter these pirates...that's a thing YOU made up. A copy protection system is just a false sense of safety that should be scrapped once cracked.

Wha?

So again you're in the "it's ok to steal as long as they make a profit" camp?

Publishers do need to counter pirates because the ordinary person doesn't, I've turned friends over for having cracked games and they paid a price (literally) and that's fine and I find that too many people have a blurred sense of right and wrong when it comes to stealing and wouldn't do the same thing.

Again, we're back to "see the pedophile call the police" and "oh cracked game, well what are you going to do?"

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

Jaysonguy

I'd rather take a look at people who actually had success in the industry despite piracy. That's the example to follow. Those who were destined to fail received what they deserved.

Publishers don't "need" to counter these pirates...that's a thing YOU made up. A copy protection system is just a false sense of safety that should be scrapped once cracked.

Wha?

So again you're in the "it's ok to steal as long as they make a profit" camp?

Publishers do need to counter pirates because the ordinary person doesn't, I've turned friends over for having cracked games and they paid a price (literally) and that's fine and I find that too many people have a blurred sense of right and wrong when it comes to stealing and wouldn't do the same thing.

Again, we're back to "see the pedophile call the police" and "oh cracked game, well what are you going to do?"

1st thing : ordinary person dont counter piracy because they dont need to . only one getting harmed by protection is ordinary ppl .

2nd : i wouldnt call them friends if you turned them in ^^

Thing is, there are no counters to piracy. And you've turned over friends? wow, quite the friend you are.dannenissan2

No there's no way because every counter has another counter, there's a level of hassle that comes in where it's not worth it

As for doing the right thing? Yes I do I don't know why everyone doesn't. If my friend was a rapist or a killer and I turned him in people would be like "good job" "thumbs up" "high five"

You turn in someone who's also breaking the law another way and all of a sudden "what kind of friend are you"

This is the stigma that makes so many people look elsewhere

[QUOTE="dannenissan2"] Thing is, there are no counters to piracy. And you've turned over friends? wow, quite the friend you are.Jaysonguy

No there's no way because every counter has another counter, there's a level of hassle that comes in where it's not worth it

As for doing the right thing? Yes I do I don't know why everyone doesn't. If my friend was a rapist or a killer and I turned him in people would be like "good job" "thumbs up" "high five"

You turn in someone who's also breaking the law another way and all of a sudden "what kind of friend are you"

This is the stigma that makes so many people look elsewhere

I still dont understand how can you compare rape, ppl killing with pirating . its more like stealing candy bar from huge mall.

[QUOTE="dannenissan2"] Thing is, there are no counters to piracy. And you've turned over friends? wow, quite the friend you are.Jaysonguy

No there's no way because every counter has another counter, there's a level of hassle that comes in where it's not worth it

As for doing the right thing? Yes I do I don't know why everyone doesn't. If my friend was a rapist or a killer and I turned him in people would be like "good job" "thumbs up" "high five"

You turn in someone who's also breaking the law another way and all of a sudden "what kind of friend are you"

This is the stigma that makes so many people look elsewhere

The thing is, instead of emotional scarring someone, you're simply denying them the fifty or so dollars they would have gotten if you had bought the game.

But to the actual discussion, Steam is by far the most effective DRM on the current market. I can't speak for Stardock or D2D as I don't have an infinite wallet to throw around money in those places, but I enjoy Steam as a whole.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="dannenissan2"] Thing is, there are no counters to piracy. And you've turned over friends? wow, quite the friend you are.kazakauskas

No there's no way because every counter has another counter, there's a level of hassle that comes in where it's not worth it

As for doing the right thing? Yes I do I don't know why everyone doesn't. If my friend was a rapist or a killer and I turned him in people would be like "good job" "thumbs up" "high five"

You turn in someone who's also breaking the law another way and all of a sudden "what kind of friend are you"

This is the stigma that makes so many people look elsewhere

I still dont understand how can you compare rape, ppl killing with pirating . its more like stealing candy bar from huge mall.

Because each crime send out ripples that effect everyone in a chain

You kill someone the family and friends are damaged you rape someone that person is damaged and everyone around that person is damaged, you steal a game everyone who had a part in that game is damaged.

No one notices that and heck just as was mentioned a pirate makes it harder for every single person to play games and yet most people are too afraid to say anything.

As you clearly dont know anything about laws...

Stealing = physical object that is missing... As in a person cant use that thing anymore. Like... a CD... A car... A house (if they go big)

Piracy = Copyright or however you spell it...

You cant stop piracy... Even if they made a way to block the entire internet so that people cant send files anymore (lol in other words no internet) there would still be piracy... Its like one person here said... Would you try to stop bullets from a AK47 with a wooden shield? A very expensive and nice looking shield... Sure.... But its still worthless...

And every time they make a new copyprotection the crackers get happy... You know they do this because they find it funny and like a challenge.

There have been a few things that have made it hard for the crackers... But you know... Once they crack it they know how to crack it for the next game...

Also every leap forward they do in Copyprotection the worst it get for the people that BUY the game... You know the real customers... While pirates might have to wait a moment or two... But they wont have to sit there and poke at the copy protection...

Also... you turned in your friend? Well... Good for you... It speak alot about your character :D

Also i love your moral compass how "Piracy = Rape / murder"

In sweden its the other way sadly Piracy > Rape / murder... Someone did some math and came up with the fact that you needed to kill 1742 people to get a higher fee to pay then for piracy...

But hey :D atleast piracy is evil right :D

Did you just compare piracy to rape and murder?

And people don't turn friends in for a petty crime because that would make you seem like an arrogant bastard.

Because each crime send out ripples that effect everyone in a chain

You kill someone the family and friends are damaged you rape someone that person is damaged and everyone around that person is damaged, you steal a game everyone who had a part in that game is damaged.

No one notices that and heck just as was mentioned a pirate makes it harder for every single person to play games and yet most people are too afraid to say anything.Jaysonguy

I would really love to see you try to explain to a rape victim or to someone whose family member or friend died how that's pretty much the same as someone pirating a game. I don't know, you may actually believe that it's the same, but it's just not, and trying to equate it is, at best, extremely inconsiderate.

On topic, Steam is a great piracy prevention model because it offers gamers a compelling service, games at affordable prices, worldwide accessibility and an incredibly high level of convenience. Contrary to what some people believe, pirates aren't some scum that laugh diabolically every time they pirate a game, they're people like you or me and they will buy games if the aforementioned conditions are met. I've seen it happen with my own eyes and Valve themselves have gone on record to say that Steam is a big success even in parts of the world where piracy is rampant. The real problem is, nobody except Valve and Blizzard asked themselves why is piracy rampant in some parts of the world or tried to actually do something to remedy the situation instead of just whining about it.

Because each crime send out ripples that effect everyone in a chain

You kill someone the family and friends are damaged you rape someone that person is damaged and everyone around that person is damaged, you steal a game everyone who had a part in that game is damaged.

No one notices that and heck just as was mentioned a pirate makes it harder for every single person to play games and yet most people are too afraid to say anything.

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Because each crime send out ripples that effect everyone in a chain

You kill someone the family and friends are damaged you rape someone that person is damaged and everyone around that person is damaged, you steal a game everyone who had a part in that game is damaged.

No one notices that and heck just as was mentioned a pirate makes it harder for every single person to play games and yet most people are too afraid to say anything.

kieranb2000

The reason you can't link it to things like the drug trade is because in the drug trade they're dealing with different qualities of goods, with game piracy you're dealing with perfect versions of the games.

I linked it to crimes that have a very definite level of harm occur in that instance, you can't be half killed.

As far as you saying that it's money they would not have received it doesn't make sense to say that every single pirate is stealing games that he/she has no interest in playing. These games would end up being bought and not in the numbers that they're stolen but there are people that actually want to play the games.

For being a friend I do the right thing, if that scares people so be it, I'm comfortable with it

Atleast the crackers buy the game :P

For being a friend I do the right thing, if that scares people so be it, I'm comfortable with it

Jaysonguy

It's one thing if your friend kills a classroom full of of children, but it's another if he were to, say, lift The Witcher off the internet. I'm actually surprised you have any friends left if you honestly report every little thing they do. That or you're the old, disgruntled man ot the end of the street who reports EVERYTHING that goes on to that street to the police.

Also: Your neighbors are hogging your bandwidth. Want to report them too?

Wha?

So again you're in the "it's ok to steal as long as they make a profit" camp?

Jaysonguy

No, that's a thing you're pulling out of your bottom.

I'm saying that piracy is an extremely bloated phenomenom by the companies.

If it was as bad as they say they are, they wouldn't earn on launch day what ten average persons earn in a lifetime.

The companies who go bankrupt didn't go bankrupt because of piracy alone. They go bankrupt because they didn't do their homework right.

Publishers do need to counter pirates because the ordinary person doesn't, I've turned friends over for having cracked games and they paid a price (literally) and that's fine and I find that too many people have a blurred sense of right and wrong when it comes to stealing and wouldn't do the same thing.Jaysonguy

You are the only one who has a sense of right and wrong.

As someone stated, pirating a game is more like stealing a candy bar from a Walmart than rape or murder. The "ripples" you mention are just your imagination.

Publishers don't NEED to counter pirates. Again, that's a thing that you're pulling out of your bottom. Stardock didn't bother putting a copy protection software, they released SoaSE and made what, twenty times the amount of cash the game costed?

If you turned your friends over, well, I won't elaborate on that. I just hope it all bites you back. That's all you deserve. And you talk about hurting people with piracy, what an hypocrite :roll:

Again, we're back to "see the pedophile call the police" and "oh cracked game, well what are you going to do?"

Jaysonguy

So what?

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

For being a friend I do the right thing, if that scares people so be it, I'm comfortable with it

Sheppard212

It's one thing if your friend kills a classroom full of of children, but it's another if he were to, say, lift The Witcher off the internet. I'm actually surprised you have any friends left if you honestly report every little thing they do. That or you're the old, disgruntled man ot the end of the street who reports EVERYTHING that goes on to that street to the police.

Also: Your neighbors are hogging your bandwidth. Want to report them too?

While I personally wouldn't report such things, it's probably true that such attitudes is really affecting our economy and moral character in today's society. I know a lot of people who think that "taking" a few dollars worth of goods is justifiable.

While I won't report them or anything, such lenient attitudes do tend to create a huge effect when multiplied for the millions of people doing it. For example, if one million people pirated one 60$ game per year (which is a really, really conservative number), that means 60 million lost for the industry per year. In reality, its probably around 60 million bucks a month easily, making it 720 million a year--a staggering amount. And those same people tend to pirate music, movies, etc. so their economic effects would easily reach into the billions of dollars. In today's economy, billions of dollars would produce millions of jobs.

I hope that people realise that while one crime doesn't seem that big of a deal, wheneveryone take the attitude of "everyone does it, so its okay" then it becomes the largest economic drain in human history. It'll seem like I'm exaggerating, but find one other historical event or trend that illegally leached billions of dollars every single year for dozens of years. I'll doubt you'll find any.

Edit: Btw, I definately agree that piracy doesn't even compare to rape, muder, etc.

[QUOTE="Sheppard212"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

For being a friend I do the right thing, if that scares people so be it, I'm comfortable with it

Dtnoip28

It's one thing if your friend kills a classroom full of of children, but it's another if he were to, say, lift The Witcher off the internet. I'm actually surprised you have any friends left if you honestly report every little thing they do. That or you're the old, disgruntled man ot the end of the street who reports EVERYTHING that goes on to that street to the police.

Also: Your neighbors are hogging your bandwidth. Want to report them too?

While I personally wouldn't report such things, it's probably true that such attitudes is really affecting our economy and moral character in today's society. I know a lot of people who think that "taking" a few dollars worth of goods is justifiable.

While I won't report them or anything, such lenient attitudes do tend to create a huge effect when multiplied for the millions of people doing it. For example, if one million people pirated one 60$ game per year (which is a really, really conservative number), that means 60 million lost for the industry per year. In reality, its probably around 60 million bucks a month easily, making it 720 million a year--a staggering amount. And those same people tend to pirate music, movies, etc. so their economic effects would easily reach into the billions of dollars. In today's economy, billions of dollars would produce millions of jobs.

I hope that people realise that while one crime doesn't seem that big of a deal, wheneveryone take the attitude of "everyone does it, so its okay" then it becomes the largest economic drain in human history. It'll seem like I'm exaggerating, but find one other historical event or trend that illegally leached billions of dollars every single year for dozens of years. I'll doubt you'll find any.

Edit: Btw, I definately agree that piracy doesn't even compare to rape, muder, etc.

While your argument is sound, I didn't say it's alright because everyone else is doing it. Rather, it's a chain effect. As money gets tighter, people get what they need from "digital distributors". It's definitely not right, but then again, a mojority of PC gamers don't pirate....although video game piracy rates in Europe and Asia are through the roof. So I suppose that point is turned on its head.

Anyway, piracy happens because the people who actually do it usually don't have the money to go out and buy the game itself, new. Though I can't say much because I buy used games off Ebay and I deny the companies their profit that way, unless it's Bioware of Blizzard.

[QUOTE="Dtnoip28"]

[QUOTE="Sheppard212"]

It's one thing if your friend kills a classroom full of of children, but it's another if he were to, say, lift The Witcher off the internet. I'm actually surprised you have any friends left if you honestly report every little thing they do. That or you're the old, disgruntled man ot the end of the street who reports EVERYTHING that goes on to that street to the police.

Also: Your neighbors are hogging your bandwidth. Want to report them too?

Sheppard212

While I personally wouldn't report such things, it's probably true that such attitudes is really affecting our economy and moral character in today's society. I know a lot of people who think that "taking" a few dollars worth of goods is justifiable.

While I won't report them or anything, such lenient attitudes do tend to create a huge effect when multiplied for the millions of people doing it. For example, if one million people pirated one 60$ game per year (which is a really, really conservative number), that means 60 million lost for the industry per year. In reality, its probably around 60 million bucks a month easily, making it 720 million a year--a staggering amount. And those same people tend to pirate music, movies, etc. so their economic effects would easily reach into the billions of dollars. In today's economy, billions of dollars would produce millions of jobs.

I hope that people realise that while one crime doesn't seem that big of a deal, wheneveryone take the attitude of "everyone does it, so its okay" then it becomes the largest economic drain in human history. It'll seem like I'm exaggerating, but find one other historical event or trend that illegally leached billions of dollars every single year for dozens of years. I'll doubt you'll find any.

Edit: Btw, I definately agree that piracy doesn't even compare to rape, muder, etc.

While your argument is sound, I didn't say it's alright because everyone else is doing it. Rather, it's a chain effect. As money gets tighter, people get what they need from "digital distributors". It's definitely not right, but then again, a mojority of PC gamers don't pirate....although video game piracy rates in Europe and Asia are through the roof. So I suppose that point is turned on its head.

Anyway, piracy happens because the people who actually do it usually don't have the money to go out and buy the game itself, new. Though I can't say much because I buy used games off Ebay and I deny the companies their profit that way, unless it's Bioware of Blizzard.

Well lets see. Say people tight on money pirate games as you say. That in turn forces gaming developers and publishers to lay off people (which definitely has happened with the current economic state). Now, lets say that due to these layoffs, the former employees now don't have any income for their mortgages, bills, and disposable income. Now, banks, retailers, and other industries sufferthe effects. Those industries then need to lay off more people. Now, those recently laid off people can't pay their bills, mortgages, and don't have disposable income. Notice where this is headed?

Now, it's not just games we're talking about. We're talking about everything from movies, music, e-books, computer software, operating systems, etc. All those combined probably reach into the billions, maybe into the trillions if we factor in everything since the start of online piracy. And this has become so common place that most people get mad when the industry tries to crack down on it through DRM and lawsuits. While I can understand some headaches associated with DRM, I believe that lawsuits and criminal charges against pirates are justifiable.

And while I wouldn't turn in my friends for such things (and I know a lot who do pirate, believe me), such an attitude ironically feeds the vicious cycle. Everyone says that such an action is over the top (and I tend to agree), but when one thinks about it, the cumulative effects of millions, possibily even billionsof people around the world engaging in piracy is no small matter.

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

What? There is a huge difference between someone who is theif and a person and a rapist, murder or pedophile.......

Well lets see. Say people tight on money pirate games as you say. That in turn forces gaming developers and publishers to lay off people (which definitely has happened with the current economic state). Now, lets say that due to these layoffs, the former employees now don't have any income for their mortgages, bills, and disposable income. Now, banks, retailers, and other industries sufferthe effects. Those industries then need to lay off more people. Now, those recently laid off people can't pay their bills, mortgages, and don't have disposable income. Notice where this is headed?

Now, it's not just games we're talking about. We're talking about everything from movies, music, e-books, computer software, operating systems, etc. All those combined probably reach into the billions, maybe into the trillions if we factor in everything since the start of online piracy. And this has become so common place that most people get mad when the industry tries to crack down on it through DRM and lawsuits. While I can understand some headaches associated with DRM, I believe that lawsuits and criminal charges against pirates are justifiable.

And while I wouldn't turn in my friends for such things (and I know a lot who do pirate, believe me), such an attitude ironically feeds the vicious cycle. Everyone says that such an action is over the top (and I tend to agree), but when one thinks about it, the cumulative effects of millions, possibily even billionsof people around the world engaging in piracy is no small matter.Dtnoip28

No, it doesn't work that way at all. You're over-simplifying things that are anything but simple. No one has managed to even approximate the damage piracy causes to software makers (and no, publishers that pull out numbers out of their asses don't count). Why? Because it's next to impossible to determine if someone who pirated the game would actually buy it if piracy wasn't an option. A correlation between a person who can't afford a game yet pirates it, a lost sale and people losing their jobs does not exist. That's like saying Ferrari fired some people because you and I didn't buy one.

People get constantly layed off in the game industry because that's how the game industry works. When a developer starts pre-production, they don't need many people working on the game. As it moves into full production, people are hired. As the release date nears, they need more and more people. After the game is finished, only the core people stay, the rest are layed off. It just happened at Stardock after Elemental was released. It's a commonplace cycle. I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it's definitely the main one.

Steam is DRM, but Steam also provides a nice service. It keeps your games up to date and all in one place, and you don't have to worry about discs or cd-keys. So yes, I'd say it's an ideal form of copy protection.

You aren't going to combat piracy by punishing paying customers, or sermonizing about how stealing is wrong. You will combat piracy by making DRM something that's desireable for customers.

And Steam is targeting another big cause of piracy with its weekend sales, which is that most games are way too expensive for what they are. I used to pirate all the time, but have largely stopped due to the Steam weekend sales. Not much point in stealing a game when I'll be able to get a real copy dirt cheap at some point anyway.

People get constantly layed off in the game industry because that's how the game industry works. When a developer starts pre-production, they don't need many people working on the game. As it moves into full production, people are hired. As the release date nears, they need more and more people. After the game is finished, only the core people stay, the rest are layed off. It just happened at Stardock after Elemental was released. It's a commonplace cycle. I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it's definitely the main one.

UpInFlames

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

You're actually comparing people who steal video games to child rapists? Wow, just wow.

That's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[QUOTE="Empirefrtw"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Empirefrtw"] Those are quite different things while I agree pirates are bad and so are the crackers they can not compare to some one who physically harms people those are two different levels of crimes.Litchie

Pirates do harm people

Take a look at the rate of stolen games and take a look at the people out of work in the industry.

Also take a look at how publishers need to counter these pirates and how much time and effort is spent doing that and since businesses don't have unlimited time and resources the buck stops at the employee.

Video games are a frivolous form of entertainment. They are in no way essential to society.

It's not like we're talking about doctors or police being out of work.

And it's incredibly offensive that he compares stealing games to child rape or murder. Tell that to someone who has had a loved one raped or murdered and you're likely to get punced in the face for being so unbelievably stupid.

Holy **** guys, I agree pirating is wrong, but pirates are NOT anything like rapists and muderers!

Turning in a friend for something as... minor as owning a pirated game is very un-friend like of you, they trusted you as a friend.

Steam is awesome, but its been cracked for a while, I don't think developers should spend thousands of dollars on 'trying' to stop piracy, nothing can stop it.

I don't know about eveything else, too lazy to comment on those topics :P

While I agree with everything you said, I feel I should point out that that is not what happened at Stardock after Elemental was released. The Elemental team consisted of 15-ish people, and "insider sources" (which joystiq was told to remove from their story, and probably resulted in the lay-off count rising by 1) claimed they are laying off around 20 people. Which means most likely that ENTIRE team, plus a few other people from here and there.kieranb2000

Brad Wardell himself said that the core team is not affected. Someone must be working on those patches (v1.07 was released yesterday, v1.08 is supposed to be up next week), nevermind the already exposed expansion packs.

It's the best example but dirtbags would still rather waste time cracking games then making some money and buying them.

I think the real problem isn't that people crack the games but that others don't see it as a big deal, they're no different then rapists, killers, and pedophiles but for some reason they're taken much lighter in society.

People know that someone is a pedophile and they call the police but they know someone is stealing games and they just keep to themselves

Jaysonguy

"for some reason theyre taken much lighter in society"??? yeah.. mad that isnt it mate? lol

It's not like we're talking about doctors or police being out of work.

FleeceJohnson

So now you're saying it's ok for people to lose their jobs but only if their job is deemed worthy by you?

The Anti theft thing is an excuse. The real reason for download distribution is to increase profit. Iteliminate the cost ofpackaging and the cost ofshipping of those packaged disks to retailers.

The Anti theft thing is an excuse. The real reason for download distribution is to increase profit. Iteliminate the cost ofpackaging and the cost ofshipping of those packaged disks to retailers.

MagnumPI

There's that, but you still need to pay for the servers and their ai-conditioned housing with can be pretty expensive -- but I'd say you would save money by going digital. Less people to pay and no shipping across the oceans.