it is official, 8800GT beats HD3870 hands down

for 2 reasons

1: its got higher performance and thrashes it in crysis

2: it is now the same price

no, the HD 8370 ACTUALLY had better specs then the 8800GT. So in two months talk to me again.supergamer1289

you may be right, once ati gets some new drivers out i have a feeling that it will slay the 8800gt, but as of now the gt does beat it. i would personally grab a 3870 myself for the hdmi and the fact that once ati releases some new drivers i think it will pull ahead.

Also, the HD has no techincal problems at all, unlike the GT, and it has a bigger fan and cooler design with a much bigger (around 400mhz) overclock potential on stock fan, and when doing that, it passes the GT with more the around 10fps, the GT on the other hand my burn with OC (unless you replaced the fan, eventhough people have problems when OC the GT i heard).hivihyar

400mhz in what?

I still want to know where TC found the 8800GT for $220.

Better have a link to a 8800GT for the same price as a HD 3870...

Or else this topic fails.

It was in a review, and if I recall correctly. it was in mem and core speed, both plus 400mhz.hivihyar

I doubt anyone could clock the core 400mhz+. That would be almost 1.1ghz processing speed. Mem+Core=400mhz is more likely.

269.99 ATI 3870

269.99 Nvidia 8800GT

I assume this is what he means.

wait... where is it only $220?

Swiftstrike5

well i got mine for only 230 CAD after taxes. That being said i could probably get the 3870 for a lot less than 220 as well. I might even sell my GT for around 300 due to it being hard to find, and pick up two 3870s in crossfire.

269.99 ATI 3870

269.99 Nvidia 8800GT

I assume this is what he means.

ch5richards

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$? Is ATI trying to milk Nvidia's 8800gt stock issue?

235$ AMD 3870

EDIT

I dunno if card is available there or not i Just posted the price. 8800GT is really hard to find.

[QUOTE="ch5richards"]

269.99 ATI 3870

269.99 Nvidia 8800GT

I assume this is what he means.

TUnified

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$?

235$ AMD 3870Shegevara

[QUOTE="hivihyar"]It was in a review, and if I recall correctly. it was in mem and core speed, both plus 400mhz.Swiftstrike5

I doubt anyone could clock the core 400mhz+. That would be almost 1.1ghz processing speed. Mem+Core=400mhz is more likely.

Yeah, my bad

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/3270-his-radeon-hd3870-review-crossfire-performance-preview.html

"Considering the core is already pushed to 777Mhz while the memory is operating at 2252Mhz (DDR) I wasn't expecting much in the way of an overclock. I was wrong.

Overclock speeds

Core: 860Mhz
Memory: 2748Mhz

Using the Catalyst overclocking utility I was able to push this card far beyond what I thought I would be able to. While an overclock of 83Mhz on the core is nothing to write home about, it was the 496Mhz overclock on the memory that left me staring in awe at the screen."

And in performence after that, it is around 5fps more then the GT.

[QUOTE="hivihyar"]Also, the HD has no techincal problems at all, unlike the GT, and it has a bigger fan and cooler design with a much bigger (around 400mhz) overclock potential on stock fan, and when doing that, it passes the GT with more the around 10fps, the GT on the other hand my burn with OC (unless you replaced the fan, eventhough people have problems when OC the GT i heard).Swiftstrike5

400mhz in what?

I still want to know where TC found the 8800GT for $220.

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$? Is ATI trying to milk Nvidia's 8800gt stock issue?

TUnified

They've got to make money somewhere, and it's certainly not going to be on the processor front.

Edit: And the HD3850 is still at its MSRP and widely available - and one hell of a deal, to be honest.

[QUOTE="TUnified"][QUOTE="ch5richards"]

269.99 ATI 3870

269.99 Nvidia 8800GT

I assume this is what he means.

Indestructible2

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$?

I get that, but since the 3870 has been in stock way more than the 8800gt, still doesn't make sense why you would raise the price of a card to match a more powerful card. I can see 20 or 30$, but 50$ is rediculous.

[QUOTE="TUnified"]

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$? Is ATI trying to milk Nvidia's 8800gt stock issue?

RayvinAzn

They've got to make money somewhere, and it's certainly not going to be on the processor front.

Edit: And the HD3850 is still at its MSRP and widely available - and one hell of a deal, to be honest.

Every time an ATI card releases andlags behind an nVidia cardits performance is always blamed on its drivers... Just sayin' :)Staryoshi87

Unfortunately that is so true :(. Everyone keeps saying that better drivers will make it beat the 8800gt. That's what they said about the 2900xt too.

Every time an ATI card releases andlags behind an nVidia cardits performance is always blamed on its drivers... Just sayin' :)Staryoshi87

hey, im not a fanboy of either nvidia or ati, but im just making a guess from what i have seen, the 2900 was behind the 8800gts by a long shot, until a driver release that shot it up above it in most cases.

yes the HD3850 certainly is one hell ofa deal, but itsa midrange card. I honestly dont understand why they raised the prices of the HD3870. the fact that it had an incredible price to performance ratio was its one selling point. verparanoidpers

Mid-range? How on earth did you come up with that? HD38XX cards are high-end, not mid-range. When the HD36XX cards come out, then we'll have mid-range cards.

[QUOTE="Staryoshi87"]Every time an ATI card releases andlags behind an nVidia cardits performance is always blamed on its drivers... Just sayin' :)TUnified

Unfortunately that is so true :(. Everyone keeps saying that better drivers will make it beat the 8800gt. That's what they said about the 2900xt too.

and thats what the xt did with the gts

[QUOTE="TUnified"]

[QUOTE="Staryoshi87"]Every time an ATI card releases andlags behind an nVidia cardits performance is always blamed on its drivers... Just sayin' :)PWN-Schubie

Unfortunately that is so true :(. Everyone keeps saying that better drivers will make it beat the 8800gt. That's what they said about the 2900xt too.

and thats what the xt did with the gts

You are correct, but that's what ATI billed the 2900xt as and that's what the new drivers FIXED. However I remember lots of people saying "wait for newer drivers, it will beat the 8800gtx". That's what I'm referring to. ATI is billing the 3870 to bridge the gap between the 8600gts and the 8800gt, to be the midrange king, and that's exactly what it's doing. And now everyone is saying "wait for newer drivers and it will beat the 8800gt". I highly doubt ATI is going to produce drivers thats going to make this card perform better than they anticipated.

well the 2900xt was never meant to trump the gtx, it did its job, and did it quite well,PWN-Schubie

I totally agree with you, but it was annoying to see people trying to say that newer drivers would make it better than the GTX, I mean people were buying it because of that erroneous statement, lol.

and the 2870 will probably perform similar to the gt once it has had some new drivers released (my speculation) but i still dont think it will be the 8800gt killer that some people think it will be.PWN-Schubie

Again I agree, you and I are on the same page ;) It's unfortunate that some people keep trying to say that drivers will make this pwn the 8800gt.

Ok, why did the 3870s just go up in price by 50$? Is ATI trying to milk Nvidia's 8800gt stock issue?TUnified

How is it AMD/ATi's fault that e-tailers are marking up their cards when there is enough stock.

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]yes the HD3850 certainly is one hell ofa deal, but itsa midrange card. I honestly dont understand why they raised the prices of the HD3870. the fact that it had an incredible price to performance ratio was its one selling point. RayvinAzn

Mid-range? How on earth did you come up with that? HD38XX cards are high-end, not mid-range. When the HD36XX cards come out, then we'll have mid-range cards.

I go by prices when ranking cards. Just because the performance is so great doesn't mean it is a highend card, it has highend performance but a midrange price. IMO it is a midrange card.

[QUOTE="PWN-Schubie"]well the 2900xt was never meant to trump the gtx, it did its job, and did it quite well,TUnified

I totally agree with you, but it was annoying to see people trying to say that newer drivers would make it better than the GTX, I mean people were buying it because of that erroneous statement, lol.

and the 2870 will probably perform similar to the gt once it has had some new drivers released (my speculation) but i still dont think it will be the 8800gt killer that some people think it will be.PWN-Schubie

Again I agree, you and I are on the same page ;) It's unfortunate that some people keep trying to say that drivers will make this pwn the 8800gt.

Erroneous statement?
It did eventually end up beating the GTX in certain situations, just like now the HD3870 beats the GT in certain situations.

BTW- TUnified you really need to do some more research on GPUs, you really messed up that blog post.

for anyone who grabbed it for 220 such as myself it was a stealinyourface_12

for 2 reasons

1: its got higher performance and thrashes it in crysis

2: it is now the same price

verparanoidpers

1. If by thrashes in Crysis you mean 3-5 FPS (without the AMD hotfix drivers just for Crysis), then yeah it thrashes it alright. :roll:

2. Proof? On newegg I still see the HD3870 for $220 and the 8800 GT from $270 to $300.

I would also like to bring in the fact that the HD3870 core can be overclocked by over 100MHz *on stock cooling*, in which it outperforms the 8800 GT easily. Further, the HD3870's memory can be overclocked by a good 200MHz, unlike the 8800 GT's memory.

NVIDIA did not interpret the HD3870's performance well enough and was forced to increase the core, stream processors and memory on G92 at the last minute, all the while leaving the stock cooler unchanged (which was not designed to handle current G92 speeds). This is why 8800 GT cards are plagued with a high memory failure rate (~30% according to majority of retailers) and why the damn stock cooler is so noisy and inefficient.

Meanwhile, AMD has intentionally slapped on a dual slot cooler on the HD3870 (it was actually designed with a dual slot cooler in mind off of the drawing board, IIRC) as they know the new 55nm process and low power consumption of RV670 has a huge overclock potential.

At current stock speeds, the 8800 GT outperforms the HD3870 and no one can deny that. Even with driver updates, I don't expect the HD3870 to outperform the 8800 GT (it may end up drawing or being outperformed by 5%) at current clocks.

EDIT: The HD3870 is now at $270 on newegg and $260 on mwave.

Good to see that demand for the HD3800 series is high.

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]

for 2 reasons

1: its got higher performance and thrashes it in crysis

2: it is now the same price

Wesker776

1. If by thrashes in Crysis you mean 3-5 FPS (without the AMD hotfix drivers just for Crysis), then yeah it thrashes it alright. :roll:

2. Proof? On newegg I still see the HD3870 for $220 and the 8800 GT from $270 to $300.

I would also like to bring in the fact that the HD3870 core can be overclocked by over 100MHz *on stock cooling*, in which it outperforms the 8800 GT easily. Further, the HD3870's memory can be overclocked by a good 200MHz, unlike the 8800 GT's memory.

NVIDIA did not interpret the HD3870's performance well enough and was forced to increase the core, stream processors and memory on G92 at the last minute, all the while leaving the stock cooler unchanged (which was not designed to handle current G92 speeds). This is why 8800 GT cards are plagued with a high memory failure rate (~30% according to majority of retailers) and why the damn stock cooler is so noisy and inefficient.

Meanwhile, AMD has intentionally slapped on a dual slot cooler on the HD3870 (it was actually designed with a dual slot cooler in mind off of the drawing board, IIRC) as they know the new 55nm process and low power consumption of RV670 has a huge overclock potential.

At current stock speeds, the 8800 GT outperforms the HD3870 and no one can deny that. Even with driver updates, I don't expect the HD3870 to outperform the 8800 GT (it may end up drawing or being outperformed by 5%) at current clocks.

EDIT: The HD3870 is now at $270 on newegg and $260 on mwave.

Good to see that demand for the HD3800 series is high.

Meanwhile, AMD has intentionally slapped on a dual slot cooler on the HD3870 (it was actually designed with a dual slot cooler in mind off of the drawing board, IIRC) as they know the new 55nm process and low power consumption of RV670 has a huge overclock potential.Wesker776

Was designed that way from the start but for a different reason.
AMD designed the heatsink so short but dual slot due to them planning on putting two of them on the same PCB. HD3870x2 has the exact same HS as the HD3870 but has two of them on there, obviously and a longer shroud and larger/different fan.

HD3870x2
HD3870
And HD2900XT just for fun.

Now think of how awesome that cooler would be if they hadn't designed the actual HS to be so short and could actually take up the entire/majority of the length of the card.

Those bastards, they jacked up the prices to practically match those of the 8800GT, but with significantly less performance (~20% is the accepted performance reduction bet. 3870 n 8800gt or something like that?). They should have just produced more 3870's for the holiday season and sold them at their proper price, rather than try to swindle customers due to the current unavailability of 8800's.F1_2004

They have produced A LOT of cards, you have to remember it IS the Holiday season when shipping is a *****. 3rd party partners seem to be having problems keeping up with demand. You have to realize that AMD isn't the one marking up the price...

BTW- The number is more like 15% with most GT's topping out around 700/1800/2000 with the extra volts from modded bios. HD3870 is topping out right around 900/~2600 with new bios to fix PLL divider but with STOCK VOLTAGE.

It will be interesting to see what the RV670 can do with some extra volts to play around with once Wizz gets on it.

Erroneous statement?
It did eventually end up beating the GTX in certain situations, just like now the HD3870 beats the GT in certain situations.

BTW- TUnified you really need to do some more research on GPUs, you really messed up that blog post.

LordEC911

Wow, this is a record for me. Two times in one post that people misunderstand what I am trying to say. I know that drivers helped the 2900xt perform better than when it was first released, and it even beat the GTX in games like WIC, Bioshock and Stalker. Same thing with the 3870, great, that's wonderful, but it's not what I am talking about.

Since I can't get my point accross, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it again for the third time.

Whatever, peace.

You would probably have more luck buying a EVGA 8600GTS then going through the step-up program to get a 8800GT than actually going to a store to try and find a GT.Swiftstrike5

Wow, never thought of that idea. Though it's US only.

why do people always say "wait for new drivers"

man,, can't they just admit the clear winner for now. ((talking about performance))

I mean, what is coming is still in future, so let's wait for it and see how it changes life!!!

thou, I wish ATi come back with serious performance Bomb,, feels like being fanboy!!

[QUOTE="Wesker776"]Meanwhile, AMD has intentionally slapped on a dual slot cooler on the HD3870 (it was actually designed with a dual slot cooler in mind off of the drawing board, IIRC) as they know the new 55nm process and low power consumption of RV670 has a huge overclock potential.LordEC911

Was designed that way from the start but for a different reason.
AMD designed the heatsink so short but dual slot due to them planning on putting two of them on the same PCB. HD3870x2 has the exact same HS as the HD3870 but has two of them on there, obviously and a longer shroud and larger/different fan.

HD3870x2
HD3870
And HD2900XT just for fun.

Now think of how awesome that cooler would be if they hadn't designed the actual HS to be so short and could actually take up the entire/majority of the length of the card.

Good points.

It would've been interesting if HD3870 came with HD2900 XT's heatpipe based heatsink. But the current stock cooler provides plenty of headroom, and there's always a crazy Thermalright heatsink if people want to go further.

What I'm wondering is why haven't vendors such as Sapphire/HIS factory overclocked their HD3870 cards. GeCube has, but they don't sell much outside of Taiwan. If HIS/Sapphire launch a HD3870 SKU clocked at ~850/2300 and charge an extra $10-20 or so, they could really hurt EVGA's and XFX's KO/SC/SSC and XXX 8800 GT SKU's respectively.

Cheers, Indes. :lol: I want people to look just beyond benchmarks, and see what they receive for their money. Is it really worth the extra $30-40 for a few extra FPS in Crysis, while forgoing a powerful UVD decoder, DX10.1 features, quiet dual slot cooler design and large overclock potential? To me, it's a clear no.