MMORPGS more Challenging than World of Warcraft

A few friends and I have been looking for a new more challenging MMORPG. The game that previously had us most entertained was World of Warcraft, though most of us left it for good a when we felt the overal difficulty decreased.

What we're looking for is basically:

• A challenging game, preferably challenging for a team.
• Great team play/roles. Not just piling DPS, but supporting each other (Crowd Control, Healing, Aggro management or whatever)

That's pretty much it actually, yet somehow we've failed to find anything decent. Is there any game like this out there?

I'll assume you cleared all HC's.

From what I've heard Everquest 2 raid encounters are very difficult, on par or even more difficult than the ones in Vanilla WoW.

A few friends and I have been looking for a new more challenging MMORPG. The game that previously had us most entertained was World of Warcraft, though most of us left it for good a when we felt the overal difficulty decreased.

What we're looking for is basically:

• A challenging game, preferably challenging for a team.
• Great team play/roles. Not just piling DPS, but supporting each other (Crowd Control, Healing, Aggro management or whatever)

That's pretty much it actually, yet somehow we've failed to find anything decent. Is there any game like this out there?

RedMattis

lol troll.

No other MMO can touch WoW for casual or competitive gameplay.

Let me help you...

Are you the top raiding guild on your server? No.

Have you downed every single 25 man raid on heroic and done all achievements? No.

Are you 2k or higher in any arena bracket? No.

Are you #1 at challenge modes on your server? No.

clearing heroics, 1600 rating, and dancing in Dalaran isn't challenging.

nt tho kid.

A few friends and I have been looking for a new more challenging MMORPG. The game that previously had us most entertained was World of Warcraft, though most of us left it for good a when we felt the overal difficulty decreased.

What we're looking for is basically:

• A challenging game, preferably challenging for a team.
• Great team play/roles. Not just piling DPS, but supporting each other (Crowd Control, Healing, Aggro management or whatever)

That's pretty much it actually, yet somehow we've failed to find anything decent. Is there any game like this out there?

RedMattis

The non-endgame in World of Warcraft is a joke compared to how it used to be. Nowadays you could slam your face on the keyboard and still win the average non-endgame fight.

Are there any games out there with a decent team challenge that isn't in the "endgame"? Ignoring the obviously needed grind to test new classes it feels kind of absurd to be hammering away at the big toe of some sort of pseudo-titan boss to get a decent challenge. Exploring the world and, for example, fighting Defias in early WoW post-beta around and in Westfall and the Deadmines was a lot more fun (though maybe that's just nostalgia ;))

I much prefer a game that quickly starts kicking my ass rather than a game that spends most of the time serving me whipped cream and cake if you get what I mean.

A few friends and I have been looking for a new more challenging MMORPG. The game that previously had us most entertained was World of Warcraft, though most of us left it for good a when we felt the overal difficulty decreased.

What we're looking for is basically:

• A challenging game, preferably challenging for a team.
• Great team play/roles. Not just piling DPS, but supporting each other (Crowd Control, Healing, Aggro management or whatever)

That's pretty much it actually, yet somehow we've failed to find anything decent. Is there any game like this out there?

RedMattis

Eve Online..

It's not quite an MMO, but Guild Wars 1 did offer some excellent team roles and dynamics (most of the content being designed for a party of eight characters/npcs), and quite a few interesting challenges throughout its four campaigns. Planeforger

We've been looking at Guild Wars 1 actually. It's a bit of an old game though, and I was curious if anything similar had appeared since then. Is it really alone in the group-based-challenge niché of MMOs?

[QUOTE="RedMattis"]

A few friends and I have been looking for a new more challenging MMORPG. The game that previously had us most entertained was World of Warcraft, though most of us left it for good a when we felt the overal difficulty decreased.

What we're looking for is basically:

• A challenging game, preferably challenging for a team.
• Great team play/roles. Not just piling DPS, but supporting each other (Crowd Control, Healing, Aggro management or whatever)

That's pretty much it actually, yet somehow we've failed to find anything decent. Is there any game like this out there?

sSubZerOo

Eve Online..

I haven't really given it a serious try myself. Mind elaborating on the reasons you think it would fit us?

Try a sandbox MMO. Going for unistanced raids, doing all the usual stuff while fighting other guilds that also want the raid is extremely satisfying.

No other MMO offers as much challenge as WoW. But there are a few decent alternatives and chances are you've not done the majority of the heroic raids or challenge modes in WoW, so the alternatives are probably more comparable for you in terms of challenge.

lol troll.

No other MMO can touch WoW for casual or competitive gameplay.

Let me help you...

Are you the top raiding guild on your server? No.

Have you downed every single 25 man raid on heroic and done all achievements? No.

Are you 2k or higher in any arena bracket? No.

Are you #1 at challenge modes on your server? No.

clearing heroics, 1600 rating, and dancing in Dalaran isn't challenging.

nt tho kid.

jakes456

Wow dosent have anything competitive about it...nothing.
You want competitive gameplay?You cant say competitive without PVP...since 2005 Lineage 2 is the best PVP MMO out there...a game where you do need ALL CLASSES in order to win a fight...you have to be very skillful...very quick with your keyboard and mouse...quicker then you have to be in any FPS or any other MMO.

AND what is the most important thing...you play against other people...you do not fvcking play againts the AI again and again...you actually fight other people and try to be more skillful as them...and you fight everywhere(except the city's)...everywhere is combatzone!

World of Warcraft ain't challenging any more. It was back in Vanilla and TBC days.

To be honest EVE Online is probably the MMORPG with the steepest learning curve. But it's not for everyone. If you're just looking for a new experience try The Secret World. It just received a F2P model like Guild Wars 2; you have access to everything and no monthly fee. All you need is to buy it once. The investigations quest in this game are really unique. But you want to look at some older games if you want a hardcore experience.

[QUOTE="jakes456"]

lol troll.

No other MMO can touch WoW for casual or competitive gameplay.

Let me help you...

Are you the top raiding guild on your server? No.

Have you downed every single 25 man raid on heroic and done all achievements? No.

Are you 2k or higher in any arena bracket? No.

Are you #1 at challenge modes on your server? No.

clearing heroics, 1600 rating, and dancing in Dalaran isn't challenging.

nt tho kid.

rhazzy

Wow dosent have anything competitive about it...nothing.
You want competitive gameplay?You cant say competitive without PVP...since 2005 Lineage 2 is the best PVP MMO out there...a game where you do need ALL CLASSES in order to win a fight...you have to be very skillful...very quick with your keyboard and mouse...quicker then you have to be in any FPS or any other MMO.

AND what is the most important thing...you play against other people...you do not fvcking play againts the AI again and again...you actually fight other people and try to be more skillful as them...and you fight everywhere(except the city's)...everywhere is combatzone!

So you're saying that Lineage 2 is World PVP mess with no goal or point ?

And also when you go 3s or 5s arenas & battleground in WoW you go fight AI ?

WoW, beyond the frequent imbalance requires huge skill and knowledge to play at a high competitive level, and even if you face an anti-combo in your rated match, with skill you can still overcome the other team.

Also, you say no competition without PVP ? How about raid world firsts ?

Hell, city raids are very frequent, for the achievement or just for the heck of it. True, world PVP like Tarren Mill/Southshore is gone, but there is plenty of ganking.

WoW is probably one of the most competitive games I ever played, don't be ionusX.

World of Warcraft ain't challenging any more. It was back in Vanilla and TBC days.

Ricardomz

[QUOTE="rhazzy"]

[QUOTE="jakes456"]

lol troll.

No other MMO can touch WoW for casual or competitive gameplay.

Let me help you...

Are you the top raiding guild on your server? No.

Have you downed every single 25 man raid on heroic and done all achievements? No.

Are you 2k or higher in any arena bracket? No.

Are you #1 at challenge modes on your server? No.

clearing heroics, 1600 rating, and dancing in Dalaran isn't challenging.

nt tho kid.

SovietsUnited

Wow dosent have anything competitive about it...nothing.
You want competitive gameplay?You cant say competitive without PVP...since 2005 Lineage 2 is the best PVP MMO out there...a game where you do need ALL CLASSES in order to win a fight...you have to be very skillful...very quick with your keyboard and mouse...quicker then you have to be in any FPS or any other MMO.

AND what is the most important thing...you play against other people...you do not fvcking play againts the AI again and again...you actually fight other people and try to be more skillful as them...and you fight everywhere(except the city's)...everywhere is combatzone!

So you're saying that Lineage 2 is World PVP mess with no goal or point ?

And also when you go 3s or 5s arenas & battleground in WoW you go fight AI ?

WoW, beyond the frequent imbalance requires huge skill and knowledge to play at a high competitive level, and even if you face an anti-combo in your rated match, with skill you can still overcome the other team.

Also, you say no competition without PVP ? How about raid world firsts ?

Hell, city raids are very frequent, for the achievement or just for the heck of it. True, world PVP like Tarren Mill/Southshore is gone, but there is plenty of ganking.

WoW is probably one of the most competitive games I ever played, don't be ionusX.

That would be WOW...

In Lineage 2 you are fighting other players and thats it...ofc there are raids and such...but the ultimate goal is to fight with other clans...
In WOW the main goal is to farm raid bosses...

Tell you what...find me the best WoW video that describes how competitive that game is and ill post one with Lineage 2...and we will judge after watching them...but if you "lose", you will delete your account here on GS. Something like "put your money where your mouth is"...
Let's see how much do you believe what you just said...and please dont be lame and dodge this with stupid reply' like " i dont need to prove anything...bla,bla,bla"

Rhazzy link your WoW armory.

World of Warcraft ain't challenging any more. It was back in Vanilla and TBC days.

Ricardomz

Rhazzy link your WoW armory.

-Unreal-

I dont play WOW...

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

Rhazzy link your WoW armory.

rhazzy

I dont play WOW...

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

[QUOTE="rhazzy"]

Wow dosent have anything competitive about it...nothing.
You want competitive gameplay?You cant say competitive without PVP...since 2005 Lineage 2 is the best PVP MMO out there...a game where you do need ALL CLASSES in order to win a fight...you have to be very skillful...very quick with your keyboard and mouse...quicker then you have to be in any FPS or any other MMO.

AND what is the most important thing...you play against other people...you do not fvcking play againts the AI again and again...you actually fight other people and try to be more skillful as them...and you fight everywhere(except the city's)...everywhere is combatzone!

rhazzy

So you're saying that Lineage 2 is World PVP mess with no goal or point ?

And also when you go 3s or 5s arenas & battleground in WoW you go fight AI ?

WoW, beyond the frequent imbalance requires huge skill and knowledge to play at a high competitive level, and even if you face an anti-combo in your rated match, with skill you can still overcome the other team.

Also, you say no competition without PVP ? How about raid world firsts ?

Hell, city raids are very frequent, for the achievement or just for the heck of it. True, world PVP like Tarren Mill/Southshore is gone, but there is plenty of ganking.

WoW is probably one of the most competitive games I ever played, don't be ionusX.

That would be WOW...

In Lineage 2 you are fighting other players and thats it...ofc there are raids and such...but the ultimate goal is to fight with other clans...
In WOW the main goal is to farm raid bosses...

Tell you what...find me the best WoW video that describes how competitive that game is and ill post one with Lineage 2...and we will judge after watching them...but if you "lose", you will delete your account here on GS. Something like "put your money where your mouth is"...
Let's see how much do you believe what you just said...and please dont be lame and dodge this with stupid reply' like " i dont need to prove anything...bla,bla,bla"

Problem is, L2 has been sh*t after HB. H5 made all the bosses worth fighting for instanced and killed the huge fights at the epic bosses. L2 is good now only in privates that run old chronicles. But yes, during it's good days, it was the best MMORPG.

Guys, MMORPGs are not about mastering your class to an extreme level and fighting competitively on 3v3 or 5v5 arenas, or runnign record setting times on an instance. It's about organising huge fights in an uninstanced ever changing battlefield against hundreds of other players. It's not the boss that should be the challenging part, it's the 10 other clans wanting the loot from the boss as well, and willing to start a huge fight for it.

Alliances are formed, rivalries are formed, sh*talking begins ingame and the forums, and you have a living breathing constantly evolving community.

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

Rhazzy link your WoW armory.

rhazzy

I dont play WOW...

That would be WOW...

rhazzy

I dont play WOW...

rhazzy

:lol: This should be the point where I stop responding, but seeing that it's beyond your comprehension, I'll try to enlighten you and post retarded guides:

WoW has the biggest competitive MMORPG scene and was featured on WCG for a very long time. Skill levels between players can be very obvious, easily distinguishing the noob from a pro. To understand any of the following videos and why they're impressive requires complete knowledge of game mechanics and classes:

Hydra & Kalimist 8

Neiyo14.5

GameKing 10

Vurtne Frost Mage(obsolete, oldie but goldie)

Of course, understanding is nothing without setting up your ideal keybinds

There are arena seasons in which top players receive titles and unique mounts once the season ends (Ladder). The mentioned players are respected by the playerbase and begged for duels by tryhards.

Once you form an arena team you need to get to good rating (for example in TBC this was 2000+, for which a team needed to have like 50-0 w/l ratio or more if i remember correctly).

Not to mention battleground which used to create server wide rivalries. They are now rated as well.

There's also a tournament with best teams at every BlizzCon

Competitivelive raids:

Guild world firsts:

Now I've only scratched the surface, but is suppose that's nothing because there's little scrambled, deathmatch world PVP ! ROFL have some epiccity raids and Tarren Mill PVP !

And you're comparing that to this

"increadible pvp at coliseum"

:) :D :lol:

Wow, sorry for rezzing this old thread.

I just wanted to add my own little tidbit to the discussion, and it comes in the form of:

The Secret World

Now, that is a challenging game indeed!

Sorry for getting this thread rezzed once again - but i was reading this and i'm stunned at the replies.

People that are saying WoW is the most challenging game ever...have you never played any MMORPG except WoW? Because what you said is complete ignorance.

If you want a great challenge,teamwork and if you actually want to use your head while playing an MMORPG - try out Age of Conan raiding and team instances.

I have played alot of MMORPG's out there and none came close to Age of Conan. I'm not going to say that it's the most challenging game ever,since i have not played all the games,but from my list,AoC is on the top.

You can come back here and say otherwise AFTER you played through Age of Conan raiding T1-T4 but until then,you can't say that WoW is the most challenging game ever.

WoW is an awesome MMO, and I'm saying that as someone who came from playing text-based MUDs, to UO, to Everquest and beyond.

That being said, if you play anything on and off for years, it gets boring, and WoW is no exception.

Personally I am "mostly" done with MMO's but 2 that I think are really cool are Eve Online and Secret World.

Eve is massive in depth and ambition, but the actual game itself is VERY flawed and not really playable without anti-depressants, sitting in station manipulating prices by 1 cent doesn't make my nipples hard, mining is VERY unsatisfying, pvp combat is pretty fun but requires a "job" to pay for it, and here's the crux, your "job" in EvE feels very much like a RL job, if I'm gonna work hard for a couple hours, there better be something in it for me other than an imaginary battlecruiser to lose in a space battle.

We went from hamster wheels in WoW (exp/purples) to hamster wheels in EvE (cash/logistics.)

Worse still, the game graphics and effects have not gone to my liking, in my opinion the game looks worse than when I started in 2005, space looks at the same time too bright and too dark, the sun poking you in the eye, red and blue nebulae everywhere, with your ship either too dark to see or radiated by lense flair, and the station hangars have horrible lighting and not a fun place to hang out and wait.

The game was making me RL unhappy so I stopped playing.

My latest MMO crush is The Secret World.

It's a "modern setting" MMO about secret societies; Templars, Illuminati and Dragon.

The setting and environments are superb, and it has an "alternate reality" thing going on, meaning they're trying to mix online gaming with RL conspiracy theory.

I adore the concept and encourage everyone to give it a shot.

@ZombieKiller7: The Secret World was made by the same company that made Age of Conan. However - they nerfed the combat and challenge in The Secret World. But as you said,the setting and story is very good.

what did you bring back this old thread?

Eve Online

Final Fantasy XIV