My 7 Rules for Reducing PC Gaming Piracy
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Buying the game is sooo much more worth it
Yes, I know another piracy thread. I'm actually annoyed with them too but I feel that the way I'm posting my own ideas on piracy it would look better on it's own thread. TheBigBadGRIM
An oxymoron you have there...
I agree.
Also, I think the developers should talk more with their fans/customers during the game development. I love how Larian Studios talks with people interested in Divinity II on their forums, I'd never pirate a game from them because of our "friendship".
Yeah...free or $50ish,guess what a large majority of people would pick? Thats the bottom line,everything else is just claptrap.
Yes, I know another piracy thread. I'm actually annoyed with them too but I feel that the way I'm posting my own ideas on piracy it would look better on it's own thread. So here it goes: --------------- Pirating will NEVER stop, this includes movies music and games. However it's very easy to lessen the amount of piracy occuring in PC gaming by doing the following: 1. Make better games - This includes better optimized games and games that take advantage of the PC platform(menus, mods, online features). 2. Create playable demos for your games - If someone wants to try your game out but there are no demos, that person may be tempted to download it to see what the fuss is about. 3. Better copy-protection - Do not include any copy-protection that will negatively effect the LEGITIMATE customers' experience. 4. Don't fight your customers - Do not piss off the PC gaming population by blaming the low sales of your game on them rather than your poor development, optimization, marketing or porting skills. For example, Cliffy B blaming UT3 and GoW low sales on piracy when the games just suck and Crytek blaming piracy for their "low sales" when less than 1% of the population can even play their game on very high settings. 5. Support your games after release. - PC gamers are used to having this kind of support now. Add new content, fix the game with updates, and even create some competitive events like tournaments. Examples of developers hosting competitive events are Blizzard with WoW's Arena Tournament and Epic Games with the "$1,000,000 Make Something Unreal" contest. 6. The MSRP should be what it's really worth - This might be the most controversial rule but I believe it's weird that most new games on the PC cost $49.99. I can't think of too many other industries where most businesses always sell their products at the same price as their competitors. I'll admit i'm not a business expert but I'm pretty sure that the price of your game should be determined by factors such as supply & demand and development cost. Why are most games released at $49.99? I know there are a few games that release under that price but I'm not seeing enough of them. 7. The most important rule of all....treat us differently. - You need to recognize that we are the only open platform, the oldest platform with the hugest library, and the most technologically superior platform. I'm not asking you to treat us like we're better, only to approach the platform differently when releasing games on the PC. You need to realize that if the PC version of your title is the same as the console version you are not taking advantage of the features of our platform which is the main reason why console ports get pooped on by many PC gamers. Realize that your marketing strategy on the consoles may not be as effective on the PC because you view them all as the same. You wouldn't view Xbox 360 gamers and PSP gamers the same, would you? If you think I need to make any changes to my rules, if you disagree with any of my rules, or if you have your own rules to add please post below. -------------------TheBigBadGRIM
1. If the games suck so much then why even bother to play them in the first place? If you don't feel like blowing $50 on a game then wait for the price to go down.
2. Most PC games already have demos and they still get pirated, so obviously the "I just want to try it out" excuse that pirates like to use isn't legit.
3. Games have tried using no-copy protection and they got pirated to oblivion. Look at what happened to Demigod.
4. So every dev who complains about piracy makes crappy games? Please. And again, this brings up the same question as your first point: if the games suck so much then why are people still downloading them to play?
5. Games do get supported after release and they still get pirated. Hence the reason you see cracked patches for games, cracked DLC, cracked expansions, etc. WoW doesn't even count because people need legit copies to even play the game. A cracked copy gets you nothing but 30 GB of wasted space on your HDD.
6. Usually all media gets released at the same price. The vast majority of DVDs cost $20. Most music CDs cost $20. Movie tickets are usually centered somewhere around $9.50. Most PC games are $50 and most console games are $60. And games do get their prices changed based on supply and demand, hence the reason most games see a significant price drop 1-3 months after release. It's absurd to claim that publishers ignore supply and demand since if they did they would be out of business.
7. Developers tend to forego making PC games exclusively for PC because the piracy rates are so high. Not only that but most devs and publishers like to make their games multiplat as much as possible in order to maximize revenue. And again, if you think that these ports and multiplatform releases are so poor quality then why the hell are you downloading them?
Quit making excuses. Just admit that the reason people pirate games is because of the mentality "why pay for what I can get for free".
About 90% of my friends pirate their games,and thats alot of people since im so cool and popular.Anyway,point is...you can rant about everything under the sun and make things more complicated than they are, but the main reason if i ask is because it doesn't cost them a penny and its simply just second nature to them now to download a game they want for pc or xbox 360.Its very simple...occams razor ftw!
[QUOTE="TheBigBadGRIM"]Yes, I know another piracy thread. I'm actually annoyed with them too but I feel that the way I'm posting my own ideas on piracy it would look better on it's own thread. So here it goes: --------------- Pirating will NEVER stop, this includes movies music and games. However it's very easy to lessen the amount of piracy occuring in PC gaming by doing the following: 1. Make better games - This includes better optimized games and games that take advantage of the PC platform(menus, mods, online features). 2. Create playable demos for your games - If someone wants to try your game out but there are no demos, that person may be tempted to download it to see what the fuss is about. 3. Better copy-protection - Do not include any copy-protection that will negatively effect the LEGITIMATE customers' experience. 4. Don't fight your customers - Do not piss off the PC gaming population by blaming the low sales of your game on them rather than your poor development, optimization, marketing or porting skills. For example, Cliffy B blaming UT3 and GoW low sales on piracy when the games just suck and Crytek blaming piracy for their "low sales" when less than 1% of the population can even play their game on very high settings. 5. Support your games after release. - PC gamers are used to having this kind of support now. Add new content, fix the game with updates, and even create some competitive events like tournaments. Examples of developers hosting competitive events are Blizzard with WoW's Arena Tournament and Epic Games with the "$1,000,000 Make Something Unreal" contest. 6. The MSRP should be what it's really worth - This might be the most controversial rule but I believe it's weird that most new games on the PC cost $49.99. I can't think of too many other industries where most businesses always sell their products at the same price as their competitors. I'll admit i'm not a business expert but I'm pretty sure that the price of your game should be determined by factors such as supply & demand and development cost. Why are most games released at $49.99? I know there are a few games that release under that price but I'm not seeing enough of them. 7. The most important rule of all....treat us differently. - You need to recognize that we are the only open platform, the oldest platform with the hugest library, and the most technologically superior platform. I'm not asking you to treat us like we're better, only to approach the platform differently when releasing games on the PC. You need to realize that if the PC version of your title is the same as the console version you are not taking advantage of the features of our platform which is the main reason why console ports get pooped on by many PC gamers. Realize that your marketing strategy on the consoles may not be as effective on the PC because you view them all as the same. You wouldn't view Xbox 360 gamers and PSP gamers the same, would you? If you think I need to make any changes to my rules, if you disagree with any of my rules, or if you have your own rules to add please post below. -------------------gameguy6700
1. If the games suck so much then why even bother to play them in the first place? If you don't feel like blowing $50 on a game then wait for the price to go down.
2. Most PC games already have demos and they still get pirated, so obviously the "I just want to try it out" excuse that pirates like to use isn't legit.
3. Games have tried using no-copy protection and they got pirated to oblivion. Look at what happened to Demigod.
4. So every dev who complains about piracy makes crappy games? Please. And again, this brings up the same question as your first point: if the games suck so much then why are people still downloading them to play?
5. Games do get supported after release and they still get pirated. Hence the reason you see cracked patches for games, cracked DLC, cracked expansions, etc. WoW doesn't even count because people need legit copies to even play the game. A cracked copy gets you nothing but 30 GB of wasted space on your HDD.
6. Usually all media gets released at the same price. The vast majority of DVDs cost $20. Most music CDs cost $20. Movie tickets are usually centered somewhere around $9.50. Most PC games are $50 and most console games are $60. And games do get their prices changed based on supply and demand, hence the reason most games see a significant price drop 1-3 months after release. It's absurd to claim that publishers ignore supply and demand since if they did they would be out of business.
7. Developers tend to forego making PC games exclusively for PC because the piracy rates are so high. Not only that but most devs and publishers like to make their games multiplat as much as possible in order to maximize revenue. And again, if you think that these ports and multiplatform releases are so poor quality then why the hell are you downloading them?
Quit making excuses. Just admit that the reason people pirate games is because of the mentality "why pay for what I can get for free".
1. Its called English comprehension. Reread his post to find your answer.
2. Most games do not have a demo. Please do some real number crunching before proclaiming you know anything. Go down the list of modern PC games and you will find that less than 25% offer a demo.
3. Demigod was a horrible game. Good for those that did not buy it. On the other hand, look at Galactic Civilizations. No protection and they went from nobody to multimillion dollar company even with people pirating it.
4. An IQ over 100 should be your priority in life... Your question, again, was already answered and yes, so far every dev that has complained made a crap game that most pirates probably deleted a few hours later.
5. WoW has been pirated in every way possibly. Again you speak without research. The other point about pirating patches is not relevant but new content is usually cheap to make and even with piracy you stand to make some good money and you garner more interest in your game.
6. I agree that there are some companies that actually practice good marketing but for the most part others are stuck in this old school thinking that they should take as much as they can without any heed to quality and that is exactly what bred piracy. You keep disappointing people without offering some sort of refund then expect to see a lot of angry people. Unfortunately for media, its not viable to offer returns so either they need to stop angering their fan base.
7. It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with profit. Consoles have outgrown the PC because PEOPLE are buying them in droves not because PC gamers have shrunk. Its just business but as some companies are now finding out, without a monopoly in consoles they are failing at being profitable there as well and they cant blame that on piracy. So you tell me why are so many games failing on the consoles? The answer is simple, everyone thinks they can make a game and some twit keeps giving them money to do it. This will eventually balance in the end.
Lastly all this anti-piracy and pro-piracy talk is moot. The minute they stop piracy on the PC, the pirates will move to full time console piracy and the devs will just move back to the PC. Its all pointless. Find a way around it or go do something else.
[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]
[QUOTE="TheBigBadGRIM"]Yes, I know another piracy thread. I'm actually annoyed with them too but I feel that the way I'm posting my own ideas on piracy it would look better on it's own thread. So here it goes: --------------- Pirating will NEVER stop, this includes movies music and games. However it's very easy to lessen the amount of piracy occuring in PC gaming by doing the following: 1. Make better games - This includes better optimized games and games that take advantage of the PC platform(menus, mods, online features). 2. Create playable demos for your games - If someone wants to try your game out but there are no demos, that person may be tempted to download it to see what the fuss is about. 3. Better copy-protection - Do not include any copy-protection that will negatively effect the LEGITIMATE customers' experience. 4. Don't fight your customers - Do not piss off the PC gaming population by blaming the low sales of your game on them rather than your poor development, optimization, marketing or porting skills. For example, Cliffy B blaming UT3 and GoW low sales on piracy when the games just suck and Crytek blaming piracy for their "low sales" when less than 1% of the population can even play their game on very high settings. 5. Support your games after release. - PC gamers are used to having this kind of support now. Add new content, fix the game with updates, and even create some competitive events like tournaments. Examples of developers hosting competitive events are Blizzard with WoW's Arena Tournament and Epic Games with the "$1,000,000 Make Something Unreal" contest. 6. The MSRP should be what it's really worth - This might be the most controversial rule but I believe it's weird that most new games on the PC cost $49.99. I can't think of too many other industries where most businesses always sell their products at the same price as their competitors. I'll admit i'm not a business expert but I'm pretty sure that the price of your game should be determined by factors such as supply & demand and development cost. Why are most games released at $49.99? I know there are a few games that release under that price but I'm not seeing enough of them. 7. The most important rule of all....treat us differently. - You need to recognize that we are the only open platform, the oldest platform with the hugest library, and the most technologically superior platform. I'm not asking you to treat us like we're better, only to approach the platform differently when releasing games on the PC. You need to realize that if the PC version of your title is the same as the console version you are not taking advantage of the features of our platform which is the main reason why console ports get pooped on by many PC gamers. Realize that your marketing strategy on the consoles may not be as effective on the PC because you view them all as the same. You wouldn't view Xbox 360 gamers and PSP gamers the same, would you? If you think I need to make any changes to my rules, if you disagree with any of my rules, or if you have your own rules to add please post below. -------------------marc5477
1. If the games suck so much then why even bother to play them in the first place? If you don't feel like blowing $50 on a game then wait for the price to go down.
2. Most PC games already have demos and they still get pirated, so obviously the "I just want to try it out" excuse that pirates like to use isn't legit.
3. Games have tried using no-copy protection and they got pirated to oblivion. Look at what happened to Demigod.
4. So every dev who complains about piracy makes crappy games? Please. And again, this brings up the same question as your first point: if the games suck so much then why are people still downloading them to play?
5. Games do get supported after release and they still get pirated. Hence the reason you see cracked patches for games, cracked DLC, cracked expansions, etc. WoW doesn't even count because people need legit copies to even play the game. A cracked copy gets you nothing but 30 GB of wasted space on your HDD.
6. Usually all media gets released at the same price. The vast majority of DVDs cost $20. Most music CDs cost $20. Movie tickets are usually centered somewhere around $9.50. Most PC games are $50 and most console games are $60. And games do get their prices changed based on supply and demand, hence the reason most games see a significant price drop 1-3 months after release. It's absurd to claim that publishers ignore supply and demand since if they did they would be out of business.
7. Developers tend to forego making PC games exclusively for PC because the piracy rates are so high. Not only that but most devs and publishers like to make their games multiplat as much as possible in order to maximize revenue. And again, if you think that these ports and multiplatform releases are so poor quality then why the hell are you downloading them?
Quit making excuses. Just admit that the reason people pirate games is because of the mentality "why pay for what I can get for free".
1. Its called English comprehension. Reread his post to find your answer.
2. Most games do not have a demo. Please do some real number crunching before proclaiming you know anything. Go down the list of modern PC games and you will find that less than 25% offer a demo.
3. Demigod was a horrible game. Good for those that did not buy it. On the other hand, look at Galactic Civilizations. No protection and they went from nobody to multimillion dollar company even with people pirating it.
4. An IQ over 100 should be your priority in life... Your question, again, was already answered and yes, so far every dev that has complained made a crap game that most pirates probably deleted a few hours later.
5. WoW has been pirated in every way possibly. Again you speak without research. The other point about pirating patches is not relevant but new content is usually cheap to make and even with piracy you stand to make some good money and you garner more interest in your game.
6. I agree that there are some companies that actually practice good marketing but for the most part others are stuck in this old school thinking that they should take as much as they can without any heed to quality and that is exactly what bred piracy. You keep disappointing people without offering some sort of refund then expect to see a lot of angry people. Unfortunately for media, its not viable to offer returns so either they need to stop angering their fan base.
7. It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with profit. Consoles have outgrown the PC because PEOPLE are buying them in droves not because PC gamers have shrunk. Its just business but as some companies are now finding out, without a monopoly in consoles they are failing at being profitable there as well and they cant blame that on piracy. So you tell me why are so many games failing on the consoles? The answer is simple, everyone thinks they can make a game and some twit keeps giving them money to do it. This will eventually balance in the end.
Lastly all this anti-piracy and pro-piracy talk is moot. The minute they stop piracy on the PC, the pirates will move to full time console piracy and the devs will just move back to the PC. Its all pointless. Find a way around it or go do something else.
Thank you for replying marc. Glad to see someone understands what I'm saying. This "gameguy6700" guy's thinking is one-dimensional. Gameguy: - You believe every pirate ONLY pirates because they're cheap and don't wanna spend any money. That's a very narrow-minded way of thinking. - You also like to use the oldest trick in the book of debating....the strawman. You like to put words in my mouth. - I didn't say "no copyright protection", I said "better copyright protection". - When talking about the MSRP I was talking about the price of games WHEN THEY'RE JUST RELEASED! Of course prices go down eventually every idiot knows that. And the vast majority of media are NOT sold at the exact same price, close yes but not exact. I've bought albums for $13 off of amazon.com and $18 off of amazon.com. Another wrong statement. You don't seem to come in with any kind of proof to backup anything you say. There are many more things I could say about your ridiculous post but it's really not worth the effort. The average person might disagree with a few points that I make and tell me why some of things I wrote are wrong, but completely disagreeing with every single thing I said and telling us your ridiculous, ignorant opinions about PC gaming piracy shows you have no real knowledge of the pirating situation but you think you know everything there is to know. These are not "excuses" I made up. These are valid reasons why the majority of pirates download games illegally and I know that because I know plenty of people who download things like movies, games, shows, music and other files and I know their true reasons for doing so. From your post it sounds like you've never even spoken to one. Also, don't expect any pirates to actually argue with you on this forum because you get banned just for admitting you pirate.I complete agree with what you said. However, if pirates are thieves, then they obviously have no honor. They wouldn't care if the developer a whole lot of effort into it. They just want to play free stuff.
Very well written though. Good job. , chandu83
Wo Wo Wo It's Not About Honor I'M From Turkey And 70% Of My Friends Using Copies Because Video Games Are Very Expensive For Turkey's Condition... You Can't Say They Are Dishonor People ... EveryBody Wants Using Original Things But It's Not About Honor It's About Purchasing Power My Friend... My English Isn't Very Good But I Hope You Understood...
I don't think the quality of games is really such an issue. A few years back, developers were sinking a ton of money into the platform and piracy was still sky high.
I'm absolutely with you on the demos and particularly on pricing; Once game developers realise that they could be much better off selling directly to the customer than by involving innumerable third parties to market, publish, package and distribute their product, with each middleman significantly jacking up the price, we'll have a market which is healthy for both the buyer and the maker.
Re. copy protection: One factor that was mentioned in one of these threads before was the online element. Apparently crackers have a pretty hard time circumventing online-play server security, so by incorporating a more attractive, perhaps even essential net-based component, studios would encourage more players to go out and buy their game.
100% agree on demos. If there's no demo how am I to know I like a game? I must buy it, but if I don't like it I can't return it... so the only other way to "try before I buy" is to download it, and if I download an entire game just to try it why the heck am I going to go out and buy it now when I already have it?
Same can be said for quality of games. If I'm unsure a game is going to work on my computer (not just system requirements, but work at all in the case of bugs/glitches) I might turn to piracy for a "test drive". Except if I don't have to bring the car back and pay for it why would I?
These don't justify piracy on the whole, the subsequent diminishing on the industry, but they justify it on the personal level, which is why so many people do it.
If piracy really bothered developers as much as they claim, then they'd make demos, and they'd make quality games.
Then we have the issue of DRM. If I have to jump the electric fence, cut through the razor wire, scale the concrete wall and run past the gaurd dogs, just to get to the metaphorical car, why would I bother when a pirate has driven a bulldozer through the compound? Regardless of the cost of the game this reason is almost enough to justify pirating on its own. Yes, pirating in general. DRM serves no purpose to anyone. It ****s over the legitimate customer, and the pirates just laugh their way through the bulldozer ride.
Lastly: pirating is not a rebellion, it's not a movement. It's like the elements of the Earth. Pirating is because it is. Whether you are making music, games, movies or prison compounds, someone is going to try and find a way through it... because they can. They're hackers. They enjoy breaking through code, they like knowing that someone tried to stop them, and failed, and they'll always fail because they'll always try and there'll always be a hacker waiting to do so.
You forgot one of the most imporant points when talking about fighting piracy. Protect the game till the release date. The reason that pirate copies are out weeks before the game is out is becouse an careless employee leaked it, a stupid employee borrowed it to a friend, at the stage of making the dvds a copy was taken by a factory worker. Do something about these three things and piracy will surely be delayed to a point past the games street date.
Those points would not reduce piracy!
I agree with you, and think that demos could reduce piracy rates, but the problem is in economic times like these your £35 could be save by pirating the game.
Not for all games, I can understand why there are abnormally high rates for games like Prototype. Sims 3 though has a great system, pirates get a crappy inferior version while people who register it get a new neighborhood and a ton of content. Not to mention Team Fortress 2 with it's amazing support which encourages you to buy the Orange Box.Buying the game is sooo much more worth it
scottishme
Lol @ people talking about honor.
You have no clue about what honor is, and probably never will have any kind of honor or clue about it. Go cry in a corner.
Even comparing pirates to thieves, that clearly means you have no clue about what you're talking about.
I frankly don't give a damn if developers put a lot of effort into it. A big pile of dung is still a pile of dung, no matter how much effort did they put into making it somehow appealing.
Whining about how people pirates the game when they simply made a product not worth the money shows infantilism and misunderstanding of one's own errors, and whining will not change this fact.
As said before, look at epic games. UT2004 was barely pirated by anyone, then they made UT3 which was a mix of CoD and previous UT's and everyone pirated it because it simply wasn't worth the money to get a cdkey to play online. I have every UT game and I can say UT3 wasn't anything exceptional indeed, and unless I hear the next game will be really great I won't bother paying the money for it.
Or at Blizzard games, who (if anyone at all) pirated SC/WC3/D2?
I think the TC's points are valid. Maybe those won't be the only step to stop piracy, but they will surely be effective.
EA CEO's attitude towards pirates is just laughable, and only makes people want to pirate EA games even more, ending up with the classic example of a dog trying to bite his own tail.
"I frankly don't give a damn"
That's really the bottom line for pirates...just a bunch of people with entitlement syndrome.
"Or at Blizzard games, who (if anyone at all) pirated SC/WC3/D2?"
:lol:
Excuse me, but when did you become an expert on how all illegal downloaders think? You can repeat the heroes and villains card as often as you like but TC is trying to come up with practical solutions to defeat piracy. I think everyone, by now, knows what a good, morally upstanding citizen you are. Instead of your judgements of all pirates as a homogenous group, how about you also come up with some positive ways of combatting piracy. TC is at least trying to offer some suggestions to help the pc gaming industry, whereas your answer is always "There are a lot of people out there who pirate games, and my opinion is that they are all scum". Why not engage with the question at hand instead of blindly damning a lot of people you know nothing about?[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]Excuse me, but when did you become an expert on how all illegal downloaders think? You can repeat the heroes and villains card as often as you like but TC is trying to come up with practical solutions to defeat piracy. I think everyone, by now, knows what a good, morally upstanding citizen you are. Instead of your judgements of all pirates as a homogenous group, how about you also come up with some positive ways of combatting piracy. TC is at least trying to offer some suggestions to help the pc gaming industry, whereas your answer is always "There are a lot of people out there who pirate games, and my opinion is that they are all scum". Why not engage with the question at hand instead of blindly damning a lot of people you know nothing about?"I frankly don't give a damn"
That's really the bottom line for pirates...just a bunch of people with entitlement syndrome.
"Or at Blizzard games, who (if anyone at all) pirated SC/WC3/D2?"
:lol:
jimmyjammer69
It's the reality for the majority of them. Look at the above guys post...he simply doesn't give a damn.
And his solutions are just tired excuses...the best games with demos and support bla bla still get pirated at very high rates. The only thing his suggestions will help is with sales, but it doesn't stop the majority of pirates. As long as games are easily available over broadband with crackers making it simple to pirate games with no repercussions there is nothing to be done. Millions of people will steal the games no matter what the developers/publishers do. The only thing that will stop it is either strict enforcement (not likely), cloud computing (still a ways off and has it's own issues), or stuff like crafty hardware based DRM (see playstation 3).
Bottom line...if it's available you can't stop them. THEY DONT CARE.
Anyways...funny he brought up Blizzard games, which get a lot of piracy, yet have great online, demos, amazing support, and are amazing games. Yet millions of people have pirated those 3 games.
Go figure...lol.
It's the reality for the majority of them. Look at the above guys post...he simply doesn't give a damn.
And his solutions are just tired excuses...the best games with demos and support bla bla still get pirated at very high rates. The only thing his suggestions will help is with sales, but it doesn't stop the majority of pirates. As long as games are easily available over broadband with crackers making it simple to pirate games with no repercussions there is nothing to be done. Millions of people will steal the games no matter what the developers/publishers do. The only thing that will stop it is either strict enforcement (not likely), cloud computing (still a ways off and has it's own issues), or stuff like crafty hardware based DRM (see playstation 3).
Bottom line...if it's available you can't stop them. THEY DONT CARE.
Anyways...funny he brought up Blizzard games, which get a lot of piracy, yet have great online, demos, amazing support, and are amazing games. Yet millions of people have pirated those 3 games.
dnuggs40
Don't act like you're absolute and everyone else's thoughts are wrong.
Frankly at the time I didn't bother getting informed on such topics since I was gifted all those games on my father's friend raccomandation and I was 9 years old, but I don't know ANYONE who has ever pirated one of the three games that have mentioned, and don't know anyone that pirates the game these days either.
Go figure.
Also, the "I don't give a damn" was referred to the effort put in a game. As I said, a big pile of dung is still a pile of dung, the effort put in it isn't relevant to say that the game is worth the price or not.
If I like a game, I'll be glad to buy it. But mind that I'm a student and I have to save money for foreign studies (Italy's university are top notched when it comes to negative rating), so I can't afford every game with a high profile title out there just because overpayed reviewers overrate overhyped games that are 6 hours long if you really whore them, or last 4 hours otherwise.
Of course you'd say "then simply don't play it", but since I plan on graduating in the game design branch of computer science, I don't really want to cripple my experience in this field just because some greedy ass that is paid in an hour more than a "normal" person in half of his life wants to squeeze the hell out of my wallet.
Please understand that it's not like everyone does it just because they too are greedy and "honorless".
"Frankly at the time I didn't bother getting informed "
Obviously.
"but I don't know ANYONE who has ever pirated one of the three games that have mentioned, and don't know anyone that pirates the game these days either."
That must mean they weren't pirated...right? lol...
"Of course you'd say "then simply don't play it", but since I plan on graduating in the game design branch of computer science, I don't really want to cripple my experience in this field just because some greedy ass that is paid in an hour more than a "normal" person in half of his life wants to squeeze the hell out of my wallet."
Oh I see...you are taking other people's hard work to improve yourself. Haha...man...now I heard it all. And I don't see how a company that invests years of work and millions of dollars in a product and turns around and sells it for $50 is "greedy"...please explain this concept.
The only greedy people here are the ones taking other people's hard work for free.
"Frankly at the time I didn't bother getting informed "
Obviously.
"but I don't know ANYONE who has ever pirated one of the three games that have mentioned, and don't know anyone that pirates the game these days either."
That must mean they weren't pirated...right? lol...
"Of course you'd say "then simply don't play it", but since I plan on graduating in the game design branch of computer science, I don't really want to cripple my experience in this field just because some greedy ass that is paid in an hour more than a "normal" person in half of his life wants to squeeze the hell out of my wallet."
Oh I see...you are taking other people's hard work to improve yourself. Haha...man...now I heard it all. And I don't see how a company that invests years of work and millions of dollars in a product and turns around and sells it for $50 is "greedy"...please explain this concept.
The only greedy people here are the ones taking other people's hard work for free.dnuggs40
Oh, well. This means you're just trolling or are too narrowminded (if minded at all), so I'll simply leave you alone.
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]I am very "minded"...which is why I have a good job and can afford to pay for the games I enjoy. Maybe one day you can do the same.Mograine
Well, sorry if I'm 17 right now :P
I was 17 once...and I bought my games back then too. I had a side job and used things like birthday money to purchase games.[QUOTE="Mograine"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]I am very "minded"...which is why I have a good job and can afford to pay for the games I enjoy. Maybe one day you can do the same.dnuggs40
Well, sorry if I'm 17 right now :P
I was 17 once...and I bought my games back then too. I had a side job and used things like birthday money to purchase games.Who said I don't buy any game? I use the money I get from my grades to pay my games and my hardware.
By the way, you're getting pretty boring...can't you really think of anything else but bashing people who thinks like me because we dislike having to pay for crap games that didn't give the chance to be tried before being paid?
I was 17 once...and I bought my games back then too. I had a side job and used things like birthday money to purchase games.[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Mograine"]
Well, sorry if I'm 17 right now :P
Mograine
Who said I don't buy any game? I use the money I get from my grades to pay my games and my hardware.
By the way, you're getting pretty boring...can't you really think of anything else but bashing people who thinks like me because we dislike having to pay for crap games that didn't give the chance to be tried before being paid?
Nope, sorry, I can't sympathize with people who take someone else hard work. Bottom line is game's with demos get pirated too.
I am not boring...I am just a responsible hardworking moral person who understands what it's like to invest considerable time/money into something. Hopefully one day you will too and realize how wrong you were in your youth. No worries...nobody is perfect...and people make mistakes. But right now the only greedy person here is the person who is taking for free what someone else worked hard on (as well as invested tremendous assets into it).
I find it amazing that someone who take's other people's hard work has the nerve to call the very same people he takes from greedy.
Anyways, I leave it there. Not going to change your mind at this point...too many free games for you to play I suppose.
I agree, but this has been discussed numerous times before.HOMIE_G64
Doesn't mean it can't be discussed again.
[QUOTE="Mograine"]
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"] I was 17 once...and I bought my games back then too. I had a side job and used things like birthday money to purchase games.dnuggs40
Who said I don't buy any game? I use the money I get from my grades to pay my games and my hardware.
By the way, you're getting pretty boring...can't you really think of anything else but bashing people who thinks like me because we dislike having to pay for crap games that didn't give the chance to be tried before being paid?
Nope, sorry, I can't sympathize with people who take someone else hard work. Bottom line is game's with demos get pirated too.
I am not boring...I am just a responsible hardworking moral person who understands what it's like to invest considerable time/money into something. Hopefully one day you will too and realize how wrong you were in your youth. No worries...nobody is perfect...and people make mistakes. But right now the only greedy person here is the person who is taking for free what someone else worked hard on (as well as invested tremendous assets into it).
I find it amazing that someone who take's other people's hard work has the nerve to call the very same people he takes from greedy.
Anyways, I leave it there. Not going to change your mind at this point...too many free games for you to play I suppose.
New generation, you have to keep yourself open minded. Things change, this whole piracy issue is going to spawn a new system someday.
Nope, sorry, I can't sympathize with people who take someone else hard work. Bottom line is game's with demos get pirated too.
I am not boring...I am just a responsible hardworking moral person who understands what it's like to invest considerable time/money into something. Hopefully one day you will too and realize how wrong you were in your youth. No worries...nobody is perfect...and people make mistakes. But right now the only greedy person here is the person who is taking for free what someone else worked hard on (as well as invested tremendous assets into it).
I find it amazing that someone who take's other people's hard work has the nerve to call the very same people he takes from greedy.
Anyways, I leave it there. Not going to change your mind at this point...too many free games for you to play I suppose.
dnuggs40
In truth, I somehow recovered my Gamespot account because I have nothing to play at the moment :|
I understand what you're saying about hard work and responsibility, but you overestimate the amount of "hard work" that's been put into games lately. Except Dead Space that was great to me, it's been well over a year since anything decent came out for the PC imho.
Recent games feel more and more like the devs code the game with the "It could be made better, but let's just leave it like that because making it better is a money sink" attitude, and that just doesn't feel right to me (for example Crysis Warhead, it was practically the first Crysis with some fixes here and there and a very bland single player; you surely wouldn't call that hard work would you?).
Also, you call me greedy and defend the "hard working companies", but you just have to look around to see EA's attitude towards gamers to at least understand my arguments (not only towards pirates, just look at one of the last interviews of EA's CEO about transforming games in services and not products, thus hugely limiting people with crappy connections forcing them to download -and pay- huge amounts of addons that were designed to be in the original -full priced- game; this is of course the most striking example, but surely isn't the only one).
[QUOTE="chandu83"]I complete agree with what you said. However, if pirates are thieves, then they obviously have no honor. They wouldn't care if the developer a whole lot of effort into it. They just want to play free stuff.
Very well written though. Good job. , pilatin1
Wo Wo Wo It's Not About Honor I'M From Turkey And 70% Of My Friends Using Copies Because Video Games Are Very Expensive For Turkey's Condition... You Can't Say They Are Dishonor People ... EveryBody Wants Using Original Things But It's Not About Honor It's About Purchasing Power My Friend... My English Isn't Very Good But I Hope You Understood...
Ergh this is the thing that makes me sick the self righteous attitude of some people. So if i went to a supermarket and stole some food that i do not particularly need but just want thats ok then? I do not have the money to buy a Subaru Impreza so i better go steal one because then its fair and im better off for it.
At the end of the day guys stealing is stealing i just wish people wouldn't make so many excuses for there actions! I mean what on earth would a so called computer game Pirate say in defense in a court of law? Oh i couldn't afford it so i downloaded it? To bad....
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]
Nope, sorry, I can't sympathize with people who take someone else hard work. Bottom line is game's with demos get pirated too.
I am not boring...I am just a responsible hardworking moral person who understands what it's like to invest considerable time/money into something. Hopefully one day you will too and realize how wrong you were in your youth. No worries...nobody is perfect...and people make mistakes. But right now the only greedy person here is the person who is taking for free what someone else worked hard on (as well as invested tremendous assets into it).
I find it amazing that someone who take's other people's hard work has the nerve to call the very same people he takes from greedy.
Anyways, I leave it there. Not going to change your mind at this point...too many free games for you to play I suppose.
Mograine
In truth, I somehow recovered my Gamespot account because I have nothing to play at the moment :|
I understand what you're saying about hard work and responsibility, but you overestimate the amount of "hard work" that's been put into games lately. Except Dead Space that was great to me, it's been well over a year since anything decent came out for the PC imho.
Recent games feel more and more like the devs code the game with the "It could be made better, but let's just leave it like that because making it better is a money sink" attitude, and that just doesn't feel right to me (for example Crysis Warhead, it was practically the first Crysis with some fixes here and there and a very bland single player; you surely wouldn't call that hard work would you?).
Also, you call me greedy and defend the "hard working companies", but you just have to look around to see EA's attitude towards gamers to at least understand my arguments (not only towards pirates, just look at one of the last interviews of EA's CEO about transforming games in services and not products, thus hugely limiting people with crappy connections forcing them to download -and pay- huge amounts of addons that were designed to be in the original -full priced- game; this is of course the most striking example, but surely isn't the only one).
Ridiculous. Yes, those games (even the ones you don't like) took a lot of hard work...in fact game development is one of the most demanding and intensive technology occupations out there. They work insane hours and when compared to engineers of similar experience get paid LESS. I make more than most game developers... At any rate, just because a game is crappy doesn't give you the right to take it. That's just greed...you aren't entitled to play that game. And yes, anybody who takes other people's work (regardless if you like that game or not) is greedy. Is EA holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their games? Millions of people feel EA's games (and addons) are well worth the price...if you don't feel that way DONT BUY THEM...or wait until they reduce the price. EA isn't being greedy...they are investing in a product and putting on the market for people to DECIDE if they want to purchase it.[QUOTE="Mograine"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]
Nope, sorry, I can't sympathize with people who take someone else hard work. Bottom line is game's with demos get pirated too.
I am not boring...I am just a responsible hardworking moral person who understands what it's like to invest considerable time/money into something. Hopefully one day you will too and realize how wrong you were in your youth. No worries...nobody is perfect...and people make mistakes. But right now the only greedy person here is the person who is taking for free what someone else worked hard on (as well as invested tremendous assets into it).
I find it amazing that someone who take's other people's hard work has the nerve to call the very same people he takes from greedy.
Anyways, I leave it there. Not going to change your mind at this point...too many free games for you to play I suppose.
dnuggs40
In truth, I somehow recovered my Gamespot account because I have nothing to play at the moment :|
I understand what you're saying about hard work and responsibility, but you overestimate the amount of "hard work" that's been put into games lately. Except Dead Space that was great to me, it's been well over a year since anything decent came out for the PC imho.
Recent games feel more and more like the devs code the game with the "It could be made better, but let's just leave it like that because making it better is a money sink" attitude, and that just doesn't feel right to me (for example Crysis Warhead, it was practically the first Crysis with some fixes here and there and a very bland single player; you surely wouldn't call that hard work would you?).
Also, you call me greedy and defend the "hard working companies", but you just have to look around to see EA's attitude towards gamers to at least understand my arguments (not only towards pirates, just look at one of the last interviews of EA's CEO about transforming games in services and not products, thus hugely limiting people with crappy connections forcing them to download -and pay- huge amounts of addons that were designed to be in the original -full priced- game; this is of course the most striking example, but surely isn't the only one).
Ridiculous. Yes, those games (even the ones you don't like) took a lot of hard work...in fact game development is one of the most demanding and intensive technology occupations out there. They work insane hours and when compared to engineers of similar experience get paid LESS. I make more than most game developers... At any rate, just because a game is crappy doesn't give you the right to take it. That's just greed...you aren't entitled to play that game. And yes, anybody who takes other people's work (regardless if you like that game or not) is greedy. Is EA holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their games? Millions of people feel EA's games (and addons) are well worth the price...if you don't feel that way DONT BUY THEM...or wait until they reduce the price. EA isn't being greedy...they are investing in a product and putting on the market for people to DECIDE if they want to purchase it. This man speaks much truth!That is one of my rules you know, better copy protection. I also agree, that's a great way for a developer/publisher to protect their product. Valve requires online activation for their games and the Steam services acts as a CD key tracker really. I really appreciate people posting their opinions on this topic. I'm hearing things I've never heard in other piracy threads and that's great. I really like the posts from "jimmyjammer69" and "Mograine". You guys are doing great.I have 1 rule online activation and cd key tracking
kemar7856
Ridiculous. Yes, those games (even the ones you don't like) took a lot of hard work...in fact game development is one of the most demanding and intensive technology occupations out there. They work insane hours and when compared to engineers of similar experience get paid LESS. I make more than most game developers... At any rate, just because a game is crappy doesn't give you the right to take it. That's just greed...you aren't entitled to play that game. And yes, anybody who takes other people's work (regardless if you like that game or not) is greedy. Is EA holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their games? Millions of people feel EA's games (and addons) are well worth the price...if you don't feel that way DONT BUY THEM...or wait until they reduce the price. EA isn't being greedy...they are investing in a product and putting on the market for people to DECIDE if they want to purchase it.dnuggs40
How can someone decide to purchase it if he doesn't know wheter if he's going to like it or not? He buys it and then regrets it? That surely can be done, but I bet noone likes to spend a work day's worth and then regret it after the first hour, shouldn't that be so?
If a game is crappy, indeed, I simply leave it alone: I *almost* never "took" crap games (except UT3 and HG:L, they were my first purchase after I left WoW and I almost wanted to throw the discs out of the window and they're the main reason because I want to friggin TRY GAMES BEFORE I BUY THEM, go figure :D ).
[QUOTE="chandu83"]I complete agree with what you said. However, if pirates are thieves, then they obviously have no honor. They wouldn't care if the developer a whole lot of effort into it. They just want to play free stuff.
Very well written though. Good job. , pilatin1
Wo Wo Wo It's Not About Honor I'M From Turkey And 70% Of My Friends Using Copies Because Video Games Are Very Expensive For Turkey's Condition... You Can't Say They Are Dishonor People ... EveryBody Wants Using Original Things But It's Not About Honor It's About Purchasing Power My Friend... My English Isn't Very Good But I Hope You Understood...
Those are exactly the kind of arguments I am referring to. If 70% of your friends cannot afford to buy PC games, then perhaps they should find a new hobby? How about that. Just because you can't purchase something, doesn't mean you are entitled to stealing it. This isn't food my 'friend'. I know this kind of mentality, I've lived in the 3rd world. Don't try to tell me that any self respecting person would condone stealing.
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