Need Some Advice From Audiophiles

Hey guys, I am just about ready to get myself a nice home theatre system, now that I have every other component.

I have a 32" Toshiba LCD, A PS3, and an XBox 360 Elite.

The TV has 2 HDMI inputs in the back, which the PS3 hooks into and the 360 is hooked up using the component cables (I think that's the one, with the green, blue and red).

Now I'm hoping that'll be enough background for answering my question which is...

What will be my best choice for getting the best audio out of both systems? I'm shooting for a 5.1 system, but I'm not sure what is better, getting a home theatre in a box, or buying a reciever and speakers seprately. Plus, I'm not sure what features I'm looking for to get the best system I can.

Now, I know there are some amazing systems out there, but I'm on a budget (preferably under $500, even better under $300). I don't need anything too crazy, this is for my bedroom, I just want something that is gonna make playing games even more fun and immersive and be the best bang for my buck.

The reason I'm on a budget is because I'm only 15 and have really put a nice dent in my bank account by buying the previous things stated plus other things such as a computer and everything else.

If it helps any (Don't think it would but...) you can see my set-up by looking at my Images.

Thanks for any help,

TBone998

The problem with HTIB's is that they are usually very cheaply made and not very upgradable.

I would definately look into buying seperate components. If I were you, I would wait and save up for a nice Onkyo 605 receiver and either JBL or Polk audio speakers. Look at spending around $800-$1000.

If you're impatient though I would look into this. This is basically a standard receiver with speakers thrown in so you still get the upgradablity of standard receivers. Sony makes very good receivers.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Specifications-of-Sony-5-1-Channel-Home-Theater-System-HT-DDW995/sem/rpsm/oid/181861/rpem/ccd/productDetailSpecification.do#tabs

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

Thanks for that, I was looking at a few Sony's earlier also. But I do have one question...

If I got a system like that, how would I be running the wires? I assume, both systems into the reciever, then the reciever out to the TV?

And, what is the best way for me to send audio? I'm pretty sure its through HDMI, but I could be wrong.

Thanks again,

TBone998

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

For surround sound, since you're on a budget, look for a receiver or a HTiB with a receiver that has optical input.

dmanrevived

Yes, you're right this isn't an audiophile thing, they are in a much higher league, but they'll at least know what is best for my situation.

And to answer your question, the 360 isn't using the HDMI, because I don't feel I need to buy one yet. I just used the HDMI cable that came with the 360 on the PS3, because I know it has games at 1080p and from as far as I can tell the 360 only has games at 720p, which the components will do just fine (I can do without the upscaling for now).

[QUOTE="dmanrevived"]

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

For surround sound, since you're on a budget, look for a receiver or a HTiB with a receiver that has optical input.

T-Bone998

Yes, you're right this isn't an audiophile thing, they are in a much higher league, but they'll at least know what is best for my situation.

And to answer your question, the 360 isn't using the HDMI, because I don't feel I need to buy one yet. I just used the HDMI cable that came with the 360 on the PS3, because I know it has games at 1080p and from as far as I can tell the 360 only has games at 720p, which the components will do just fine (I can do without the upscaling for now).

To answer your question, the 360 isn't using the HDMI, because I don't feel I need to buy one yet. I just used the HDMI cable that came with the 360 on the PS3, because I know it has games at 1080p and from as far as I can tell the 360 only has games at 720p, which the components will do just fine (I can do without the upscaling for now).

T-Bone998

You don't have a 1080p TV anywayso it doesn't even matter for the PS3 either. You could use component on both the PS3 and 360 and you wouldn't see much difference.Regardless of whatSony hyped the PS3to be it falls a bit short. I'm notsaying it's a bad system, quite the contrary. Just don't believe all the hype. HDMI is only nice for convenience on anything less than the best equipment.

To answer your other question. The best way to hook up the consoles is to the receiver first and then from the receiver to the TV. That receiver that I linked only has HDMI passthrough so you will have to also provide a optical Toslink for both the PS3 and the 360 even if hooked up via HDMI.

Oh yeah... Basically there are 2 new HD Sound Formats that requier HDMI Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD - To me, both of these formats are too much of a luxury - Recievers that support these formats start at a Very high cost... kidkit

Actually the price of these receivers has come down quite drastically. The Onkyo 605 supports true HDMI decoding so you can have 7.1 Dolby True HD and DTS-HD for $470 on sale at circuit city. That receiver doesn't come with speakers though so it doesn't quite fit the OP's budget.

For $500 a HTIB is almost your only solution if you want 5.1 surround sound. A low end reciever would cost at least $300 and then 5 decent speakers and a powered sub would be around another $1000. But there are other options too. If this is all set up in your room or a smaller place like that then the Logitch Z-5500's are a killer set of 5.1 speakers with optical and analog 5.1 inputs. If PC speakers aren't your thing and you want at least a dedicated receiver that a HTIB offers then your best option is to go to your local BestBuy or someplace like that, find some that are in your price range and play a movie or CD on them to see if you like how they sound.

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

dmanrevived

QFT. Audiophiles would go for pre/pros, amps, wacko-gadgets and do-hickies.

[QUOTE="dmanrevived"]

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

NamanOWNSyou

QFT. Audiophiles would go for pre/pros, amps, wacko-gadgets and do-hickies.

He was only trying to catch our attention. NBD

Hey guys, I am just about ready to get myself a nice home theatre system, now that I have every other component.

I have a 32" Toshiba LCD, A PS3, and an XBox 360 Elite.

The TV has 2 HDMI inputs in the back, which the PS3 hooks into and the 360 is hooked up using the component cables (I think that's the one, with the green, blue and red).

Now I'm hoping that'll be enough background for answering my question which is...

What will be my best choice for getting the best audio out of both systems? I'm shooting for a 5.1 system, but I'm not sure what is better, getting a home theatre in a box, or buying a reciever and speakers seprately. Plus, I'm not sure what features I'm looking for to get the best system I can.

Now, I know there are some amazing systems out there, but I'm on a budget (preferably under $500, even better under $300). I don't need anything too crazy, this is for my bedroom, I just want something that is gonna make playing games even more fun and immersive and be the best bang for my buck.

The reason I'm on a budget is because I'm only 15 and have really put a nice dent in my bank account by buying the previous things stated plus other things such as a computer and everything else.

If it helps any (Don't think it would but...) you can see my set-up by looking at my Images.

Thanks for any help,

TBone998

T-Bone998

1) You can't get "the best audio out of both systems" for $500.

2) Buying a receiver & speakers separately is a better deal than a HTIB. HTIBs are generally very poor sound quality. Tiny, tinny speakers with a very high crossover and cheap, sealed-box subs that don't go low orplay loud, and are sluggish, boomy and distorted.

As noted, the Onkyo 605 is a great receiver for you to consider. While you don't need HDMI 1.3 & HD codec decoding, since the PS3 can decode TrueHD and output LPCM (and may possible be able to do DTS-HD MA in a later firmware update) and can also pass up to 7.1 ch LPCM, you do need a receiver with HDMI that is capable of taking a 5.1 LPCM signal to get the most out of your PS3, for a 5.1 setup. To get the most out of the 360, you just need optical/5.1 DD. The Elite can only pass 2-channel LPCM over HDMI. The Onkyo is still a good price though if you want an HDMI receiver.

My recommendation would be to buy the receiver and maybe just the front two speakers. Then buy the center and surrounds when you can afford them. Then buy a sub when you can afford that. Or you could buy a speaker package deal. Check out internet-direct companies for good cost/value.

You don't have a 1080p TV anywayso it doesn't even matter for the PS3 either. You could use component on both the PS3 and 360 and you wouldn't see much difference.Regardless of whatSony hyped the PS3to be it falls a bit short. I'm notsaying it's a bad system, quite the contrary. Just don't believe all the hype. HDMI is only nice for convenience on anything less than the best equipment.

cspiffo

Not sure what Sony over-hyping has to do with this. However, I own both the PS3 and 360, and I can tell you that the PS3 takes a lot better advantage of it. I wouldn't be getting uncompressed HD audio for both games and movies on my 360 with or without HDMI. The Elite can't even do more than 2 channels of LPCM so no HD sound from an HD-DVD add-on either. I'm also sure you know that - even if it is marginal - there is a difference in PQ between component and HDMI. Otherwise, my eyes are fooling me when I switch between inputs from my Moto 3416 HD-DVR/Comcast feed (on my 720p TV). Certainly, even without touching "audiophile"-level equipment, the bottom-of-the-line of the new models of Onkyo HDMI receivers doesn't constitute the "best equipment". Nor do HTIBs with HDMI.So, I would argue that HDMI is more than a convenience.

Not sure what Sony over-hyping has to do with this. However, I own both the PS3 and 360, and I can tell you that the PS3 takes a lot better advantage of it. I wouldn't be getting uncompressed HD audio for both games and movies on my 360 with or without HDMI. The Elite can't even do more than 2 channels of LPCM so no HD sound from an HD-DVD add-on either. I'm also sure you know that - even if it is marginal - there is a difference in PQ between component and HDMI. Otherwise, my eyes are fooling me when I switch between inputs from my Moto 3416 HD-DVR/Comcast feed (on my 720p TV). Certainly, even without touching "audiophile"-level equipment, the bottom-of-the-line of the new models of Onkyo HDMI receivers doesn't constitute the "best equipment". Nor do HTIBs with HDMI.So, I would argue that HDMI is more than a convenience.

virtual-human

I was mostly talking about PQ. There really isn't much of a diff. between component and HDMI. Maybe if you are sitting 3-4ft from the TV you will notice. Anything else will look the same. As far as sound goes. Maybe I overshot by saying "the best" equipment. What I was trying to convey was the fact that you need far more than a standard 720p HDTV and a entry level receiver and speakers to take advantage of HDMI. So if you want to argue semantics go ahead. I think a I made my point though.

Okay, thanks for the help to all those who added their input, I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do yet, I might save up and go for the "higher end" systems that have been mentioned here (I know these aren't THE high-end in audio, but I mean just in the thread specifically). But, nothing is final yet, because I need to start saving for a car and such.

But, I do have one more question...

If I end up being cheap and just buy a 5.1 HTiB :

1. Will it still give me different audio from each speaker? (I think this is a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyways)

2. Will I just run some kind of audio out cable from my TV to the reciever? (I assume the reciever wouldn't have the high tech inputs for both systems)

Just keep in mind, I'm 15 and this is for my bedroom. I like having good audio, but not sure if I want to spend $500+ to get it. All I really need is to have sound all around me, such as hearing someone sneaking up behind me in GeOW or Resistance.

Again, thanks for all the help guys, I'll keep all these options in mind, and these will be my last questions for you.

1. It will give you proper 5.1 surround sound if you connect using either HDMI or optical (toslink), so always try to find one with either of those inputs even if you're going budget-style.

2. For watching cable tv, run the audio from your cable box or from your tv if you don't use a cable box. For consoles, you should connect directly from the console to the receiver.

First, as many have already said, don't go for the HTIB.

Second, I can provide some info on my setup that could work well for you if you don't mind getting your hands dirty. It's not as good as my dad's HarmanKardon/Klipsch Reference series (w/2000 watt sub!) system, but beats the pants of his Bose lifestyle system.

-First, go to ebay and find a Soundblaster Extigy 5.1 sound card for $50. They don't make them anymore, so if you want something new and under warranty you'll have to go for an audigy2 nx ($100).

-On ebay, find a Klipsch Promedia 2.1 system, you can find them for about $100 w/shipping. Great THX certified system.

-Find a promedia 2.1 sub/control unit ONLY (no satelite speakers). If you can find one, they go for about $60. Make sure it comes with the volume control pod. Alternatively, buy the whole 2.1 system, take the pod off the satellite, and ebay the satellites.

-Find some Polk bookshelf speakers on ebay. Polk is a good one to look for because it's not as popular as some other brands so they command less on ebay, but they sound awesome (much better than the klipsch satellites). I picked up some R15 speakers for $30/pair. Really crisp and clear sound. Come to think of it, you could buy four of these and do away with the klipsch satellites completely. I kept them (Klipsch) in the back since I don't really pick up on little details in the back anyway.

-I dug up a Klipsch SWS sub that I had from a few years ago to add to the setup. They don't make them anymore and I can't find any more on eBay, so you're outta luck there unless you can find one somewhere. AWESOME sub, really deep bass. I paid $300 new.

-Finally, pick up some optical toslink cables. I don't remember how much they are. A little spendy but not crazy. These will carry the 5.1 signal from the console. Also, get some speaker cable with no connectors on one end, and pins on the other (the lower the wire gage, thicker cable, the better). You may have to buy the pins separately and install them or if you bought the full second 2.1 system cut the mini-jack end of the wire and strip the ends.

So basically connect the optical cable from the console to the extigy. Connect the Promedia 2.1 system to the rear speaker output. Connect the Promedia Sub-only to the front speaker output. Connect the Polk speakers directly to the speaker output on the Promedia sub (it won't blow out the speakers, they match pretty well). Finally, if you get a SWS sub, you have to connect the front speaker output of the extigy into the SWS, then from the SWS to the Promedia (Extigy---->SWS---->Promedia).

When all is said and done you'll have a THX certified, 4.2 system (4.3 with the SWS sub) that sounds amazing for the price. I haven't added a center channel for 5 channel sound, but I care more about music than movies/games so I don't really need it. With your budget you can easily add a center channel and the extigy supports it. Finally, you can connect the extigy to your computer to mess around with the equalizer settings. It doesn't have to be plugged in to function though. I just used my laptop to set up the equalizer and balance, then unplugged it and it's set. Hope this helps.

Summary:

• THX Certified 4.2 or 4.3 Channel (easily upgraded to 5.3 channel)
• About $270 with cables ($570 with additional sub)
• 500Watts RMS, about 1300 Watts peak power (With these efficient horn speakers, it's bona-fide 500Watts. It's LOUD. I can't stand more than about 1/3 volume before ear pain sours the experience or stuff starts falling from shelves :) )
• Sounds way better than any HTIB or logitech PC speaker junk.

^^^^^^^ :lol: LOL! Frankensystem...It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^cspiffo

Haha, and that's not even everything. I didn't describe the signal conditioning circuits, sofa iPod jack, and multi-room network I built for it too :) I'm glad I had to take those electrical engineering classes now.

[QUOTE="kidkit"]Oh yeah... Basically there are 2 new HD Sound Formats that requier HDMI Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD - To me, both of these formats are too much of a luxury - Recievers that support these formats start at a Very high cost... cspiffo

Actually the price of these receivers has come down quite drastically. The Onkyo 605 supports true HDMI decoding so you can have 7.1 Dolby True HD and DTS-HD for $470 on sale at circuit city. That receiver doesn't come with speakers though so it doesn't quite fit the OP's budget.

First you can get that receiver on Amazon for $400 w/ free shipping every so often, and as of now it is not necessary, because there is not one single player that sends Dolby TrueHD nor DTS-HD bitstream. All players that have them decode them internally a send it via LPCM over HDMI (done w/ 1.1 spec) or via 5.1/7.1 analog. But in the future we will see players that send send the bitstream.

Please read this to learn more

[QUOTE="dmanrevived"]

This is definitely not an audiophile thing. Audiophiles are in a whole different league than this.

Question, why is the 360 hooked up using component and not HDMI?

For surround sound, since you're on a budget, look for a receiver or a HTiB with a receiver that has optical input.

T-Bone998

Yes, you're right this isn't an audiophile thing, they are in a much higher league, but they'll at least know what is best for my situation.

And to answer your question, the 360 isn't using the HDMI, because I don't feel I need to buy one yet. I just used the HDMI cable that came with the 360 on the PS3, because I know it has games at 1080p and from as far as I can tell the 360 only has games at 720p, which the components will do just fine (I can do without the upscaling for now).

[QUOTE="virtual-human"]

Not sure what Sony over-hyping has to do with this. However, I own both the PS3 and 360, and I can tell you that the PS3 takes a lot better advantage of it. I wouldn't be getting uncompressed HD audio for both games and movies on my 360 with or without HDMI. The Elite can't even do more than 2 channels of LPCM so no HD sound from an HD-DVD add-on either. I'm also sure you know that - even if it is marginal - there is a difference in PQ between component and HDMI. Otherwise, my eyes are fooling me when I switch between inputs from my Moto 3416 HD-DVR/Comcast feed (on my 720p TV). Certainly, even without touching "audiophile"-level equipment, the bottom-of-the-line of the new models of Onkyo HDMI receivers doesn't constitute the "best equipment". Nor do HTIBs with HDMI.So, I would argue that HDMI is more than a convenience.

cspiffo

I was mostly talking about PQ. There really isn't much of a diff. between component and HDMI. Maybe if you are sitting 3-4ft from the TV you will notice. Anything else will look the same. As far as sound goes. Maybe I overshot by saying "the best" equipment. What I was trying to convey was the fact that you need far more than a standard 720p HDTV and a entry level receiver and speakers to take advantage of HDMI. So if you want to argue semantics go ahead. I think a I made my point though.

Again, I have a 720p TV. It's 37" and I sit 6-7' away. I can see a difference when flipping between inputs. Cut and dry. Where are the semantics? I suppose maybe my estimation of the Onkyo 605 as an entry-level receiver, but that's not about PQ...

I seriously doubt my eyes are special. And by your phrasing, you note that there is a difference. Your point of contention is simply how big the difference is.

I will note that - whether the source be HD televison programming, a 360, or a PS3 - the content is digital. Transmitting it via component cables necessitates a digital->analog->digital conversion of the signal. This degrades it. In my experience, the picture looks softer and the colors are more washed out.

As an aside, differences in cabling and PQ extend even to analog vs. analog. There was a wealth of input from the community at AVSForum as to how the Xbox 360 looked better on their sets over VGA as opposed to component - not counting DVD upscaling, obviously, as DVDs are not upscaled via component. I'm sure they just all had really special eyes as well, though.

Having said this, I don't really care to continue discussing with you whether - as this is what it amounts to - I am a liar for stating that on my personal gear I have observed a difference in PQ between HD and component from the same source. The only reason I have carried on thus far is in the hopes that those who might be utilizing threads here as a source of information are not subjected to inaccuracies.

You're right; I misspoke. I agree they're oversaturated.

Not trying to get back into it, but just saying that the difference that we now agree is there, is, for me, noticeable and enough to make me prefer HDMI. Also not trying to get back into it, but for future reference, others might consider it personal to be told "you really have some special eyes" when discussing the visual characteristics of something.