NEW DISEASE CALLED "NO MANUAL SAVING". HOW TO TREAT IT?

Ok, So to say that I'm pretty PI***D lately would be like clouds, suns and flowers etc. And why Am I Feeling that way?

Answer is simple, believe it or not. It's because I played couple of new games lately (Hitman Absolution, Bioshock Infinite, SC: Blacklist) and I have that inner sense, like you

want to throw up. WHY? Let me put it this way. I belong to older generation of gamers, PC gamers to be exact, who understand gaming as a sort of

hedonistic experience. I always felt like to explore environment, especially in games that kinda allowed you that, or should I say, TEASES you to do so.

Then, there is that "a must go through" part of a environment that you NEED to pass to get, you guess right, to another part of the environment. And SOMETIMES,

after you pass A LOT OF DISTANCE and do A LOT OF THINGS along way, somehow, sometimes, having in mind some older games that have let you do it NECESARRILY ,

you have that urge TO :SAVE: YOUR PROGRESS, especially in semi-non linear games like mentioned Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 1 had it as an option always) and

especially in !!!!!!!SPLINTER CELL!!!!!! ("you know",says the reviews,"this new splinter cell is like Chaos Theory!") NO! IT"S NOT! CHAOS THEORY LET YOU SAVE ANYTIME

BECAUSE OF ITS NON LINEAR GAMEPLAY LIKE NEW SC:BLACKLIST KINDA HAS IT!!!!!!!!!!! You know playing stealthy for 20 min, (yeah, stealthy because Splinter Cell is that kind of a game where you need to play really careful) and dying and having to start all over makes

me feel like, like,.........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To cut the mourning...people, what's going on? Why we have to play super mario all over in 21st century? Why all the frustration when you doesn't need one?

Why developers nowadays HATE MANUAL SAVING SYSTEM? Why today there is no "hit escape>save" procedure? Why there is no more save game option in the menu?

Why, why, why?

Eh, THIS GAME USES AUTOSAVE FEATURE, WHEN YOU SEE THIS SIGN...oh, SC*EW YOU!!!!!

This seems more like blog material.  Also, that would make games too easy in an already easy games era.  Sounds like you want more of a casual experience.

This seems more like blog material.  Also, that would make games too easy in an already easy games era.  Sounds like you want more of a casual experience.

Rage010101

Yes placing limits on your own saving is something some people are not capable of but having the option would be nice. F5 Quick save is a feature i do not want to be removed and not because i like easy games actually i am a Game players who enjoys a challenge and often have games on the highest setting depending on what that setting entails.

This is also discussion worthy and not a simple BLOG post you could argue that everything in these forums is blog worthy to some extent and then just dismiss anything and everything someone has to say.

too much capslock, didn't read

Yes, manual saving and quick saving is very useful to me

Yeah, I do agree that games like Splinter Cell do call for quicksaving.

No more capslock, promise....

now..

I have a suggestion: just put in a feature that players who don't use save game get more points or some kind of a bonus.

Or a limitation like in Hitman:Blood money (6 saves, 3 saves, no saves depending on difficulty level...)

No, really, I understand a good deal difference between casual playing, normal playing and masochistic urge to frustrate oneself.

Really...

And I beg all of you people, say your thoughts. I'm very intrested in what many of you think about this.

Right now I'm playing Splinter Cell Blacklist, and the game is really good. Just, I need at least that one slot for myself to save progress.

I'm playing it slowly, planning my tactics, that's why I loved SC:Chaos Theory. Not to be confused, I can say that I'm very experienced

in playing VG's, and I'm up for the challenge. This is different....

Normally, thank you @jwsoul, sometimes you need to do things in real life and they make you feel like playing MMORPG...

Your writing style gives me a headache.

Implementing a manual save can sometimes break the game and make the game buggy. The checkpoints in blacklist are very forgiving. They checkpoint you right before every hotzone in the game.

I think it depends on the game. For things like RPGs and RTS then manual saving should be there. For fast games like Racing Games and FPS, autosave is fine.FelipeInside

Pretty much this.

Some games are better off with limited saving, and others are better off with quicksaves to the point to that you can save scum. But it isnt all about the genre though. A lot of RPGs benefit greatly from quicksaves, but adding quicksaves to something like Nethack would be to miss a huge point of the game.

Edit: That said, being able to bookmark (save&quit) your progress is always nice.

Absoulution was ruined because of this.

Some games are not for checkpoint feature, especially Hitman series. Honestly, Absolution is a bad game. Bad comparing to what Hitman franchise was meant to be.

Again, those who want to play without saving, implement some bonus achievement and everybody's happy....

Some games are not for checkpoint feature, especially Hitman series. Honestly, Absolution is a bad game. Bad comparing to what Hitman franchise was meant to be.

Again, those who want to play without saving, implement some bonus achievement and everybody's happy....

 

Pelezinho777

Just like how some games are not balanced around the ability to save anywhere.

It goes both ways, and there is no one true way to design a game.

manual saving is not good, since it can ruin the feel and the sense of challenge. you need to constantly be a littlebit afraid of dying, and manual saving can ruin that feel.

that said, checkpoints need to be very carefully planned (Dark Souls says hi), but it doesn't always work like it should either. having to replay large portions after death is a failure in design.

I think it's needed only because quick saves takes away a lot of the challenge and skill.  Though I also see how it can be annoying for those that don't have much time to play.

What devs should do if they decide to have check point saves is to also have a manual save but, put manual save on a timer.

Like say you can only use the manual save ever 20 minutes.  That way if you can't play anymore and need to save your progress you can do it without abusing the game mechanics.  I would also not allow the manual save to work during a fight.

I think it's needed only because quick saves takes away a lot of the challenge and skill.  Though I also see how it can be annoying for those that don't have much time to play.

What devs should do if they decide to have check point saves is to also have a manual save but, put manual save on a timer.

Like say you can only use the manual save ever 20 minutes.  That way if you can't play anymore and need to save your progress you can do it without abusing the game mechanics.  I would also not allow the manual save to work during a fight.

sleepingzzz

I personally think manual saving is a disease. It makes easy games even easier for lazy people so they can breeze through them in a night and brag about how short and easy the game was. Manual saving eliminates all difficulty from games. That's a fact. If you have the potential to save for every increment you advance with no potential to lose progress, every game becomes a cakewalk. It detracts just from about every type of game (particularly RPGs and FPS games). My suggested treatment for your condition: grow balls and get skills.KHAndAnime

You are talking extreme. Saving game is an option in menu screen...option...remember the magic word...

Anyways, nobody stops you from not saving your progress...

I wonder, Bioshock 1 (2007) was regarded by many to be the best shooter of all times...strange, you could do manual saving...

but that game was for sis**es anyways....

I wonder, Bioshock 1 (2007) was regarded by many to be the best shooter of all times...strange, you could do manual saving...

but that game was for sis**es anyways....

Pelezinho777

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]I personally think manual saving is a disease. It makes easy games even easier for lazy people so they can breeze through them in a night and brag about how short and easy the game was. Manual saving eliminates all difficulty from games. That's a fact. If you have the potential to save for every increment you advance with no potential to lose progress, every game becomes a cakewalk. It detracts just from about every type of game (particularly RPGs and FPS games). My suggested treatment for your condition: grow balls and get skills.Postmortem123

autosaves in Skyrim and Fallout work well. and it saves often.

too much capslock, didn't read

lostrib

Can't control the troll.

autosaves in Skyrim and Fallout work well. and it saves often.

groowagon

Did Skyrim have quicksaves? I can't even remember.

[QUOTE="groowagon"]

autosaves in Skyrim and Fallout work well. and it saves often.

Postmortem123

Did Skyrim have quicksaves? I can't even remember.

[QUOTE="Postmortem123"]

[QUOTE="groowagon"]

autosaves in Skyrim and Fallout work well. and it saves often.

kraken2109

Did Skyrim have quicksaves? I can't even remember.

manual saving is not good, since it can ruin the feel and the sense of challenge. you need to constantly be a littlebit afraid of dying, and manual saving can ruin that feel.

groowagon

The lack of manual save option doesn't make me afraid of dying or anything like that, it only makes all games feel kinda like Tomb Raider... Or CoD.

I wish you old school pc gamers would just learn to adapt to forever evolving gaming industry, and stop crying like its the end of the world.

I wish you old school pc gamers would just learn to adapt to forever evolving gaming industry, and stop crying like its the end of the world.

Advid-Gamer

I wish you old school pc gamers would just learn to adapt to forever evolving gaming industry, and stop crying like its the end of the world.

Advid-Gamer

I have no prob with evolving gaming industry, consoles as a primary target for gamers and so on...just let me save my game, I think that could be acoplished with

new eight-core cpu, 8gigs of ram and terabyte space in new consoles...for PC I'm certain it's doable.

 The whole point many games take out anytime saving is to preserve the challege. For  some games it makes sense like Skyrim for example if you couldn't save whenever you wanted in that game it would be extremely annoying and inconvient especially with all the glicthes and bugs that can ahppen. It reall wouldnt make the game harder per say either. A game like hitman though saving anythime basically makes the game a cake walk because you can save before you try anything and if you ever mess up just reload it defeats the purpose of the game.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]I think it depends on the game. For things like RPGs and RTS then manual saving should be there. For fast games like Racing Games and FPS, autosave is fine.biggest_loser

Exactly the same for Splinter Cell: Blacklist. Could you believe that in optional missions you don't even have checkpoints? I know these are made for challenge, but look it

this way...There is one mission in which you have to get three files from different places in wider area (which contains minefield and security lasers). It's REALLY, but REALLY

awkward that you don't get checkpoint after each file you get because area is BIG, there is many guards to pass, to neutralize or whatever. And what? If you get caught by

camera after 20min of playing you have to start over? From beginning? This is madness...!

This seems more like blog material.  Also, that would make games too easy in an already easy games era.  Sounds like you want more of a casual experience.

Rage010101

Implementing a manual save can sometimes break the game and make the game buggy. The checkpoints in blacklist are very forgiving. They checkpoint you right before every hotzone in the game.

JangoWuzHere

I think people are usually fine with certain genres having checkpoints. At times, it can even add more weight to your gameplay performance/choices, at the expense of your convenience.

This topic always comes up when a game--that seemingly needs it has a silly checkpoint/save system--ships with an awful save system. I remember a similar thread pop up when Hard Reset--a PC exclusive game--launched with it's save system. I bet this thread is in response to Shadowrun: Returns.

You think games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. should use checkpoints? I personally don't think that would work very well.Postmortem123

 

You are talking extreme. Saving game is an option in menu screen...option...remember the magic word...

Anyways, nobody stops you from not saving your progress...

 

Pelezinho777

How is my game going to save if I don't use the quick-save system? Typically quick-saving is put inplace of any other saving system, so that means if I wanted a balance play experience, I'd have to play through the entire game once, and then spend hours upon hours carefully placing checkpoints strategically where I believe the game would be fair. In other words, I'd be doing the developer's work for them and losing all fun in the progress.

I always play all games that let you quick-save on command on the highest difficulty, and typically that isn't even enough for me to fully enjoy a game with quick-saving because I can still beat them in a breeze. Unless I was to create artificial difficulty for myself (which is dumb - I shouldn't be playing against myself, I should be playing against the game).

Poorly-thought out save systems can kill a game for me. I appreciate the option of having quick-saving. But it's too convenient. Might as have put the 'invulnerability' button right next to the quick-save button, and save everybody the time.

I 100% agree, I wish every game had manual saving. A lot of the time I have real world things I need to do and I have to quickly get out of the game, or leave my computer on for hours at a time. I would just prefer to save and shutdown.

I 100% agree, I wish every game had manual saving. A lot of the time I have real world things I need to do and I have to quickly get out of the game, or leave my computer on for hours at a time. I would just prefer to save and shutdown.

KABCOOL

Thank you. They make you feel like a slave. It's like watching movie you just bought on DVD/BluRay, and suddenly you have to stop watching to do something else. And then tomorow, if you want to resume watching (i.e. Select chapter or set time) it forbids you and force you to watch from scratch...

[QUOTE="Postmortem123"] You think games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. should use checkpoints? I personally don't think that would work very well.KHAndAnime

You are talking extreme. Saving game is an option in menu screen...option...remember the magic word...

Anyways, nobody stops you from not saving your progress...

Pelezinho777

How is my game going to save if I don't use the quick-save system? Typically quick-saving is put inplace of any other saving system, so that means if I wanted a balance play experience, I'd have to play through the entire game once, and then spend hours upon hours carefully placing checkpoints strategically where I believe the game would be fair. In other words, I'd be doing the developer's work for them and losing all fun in the progress.

I always play all games that let you quick-save on command on the highest difficulty, and typically that isn't even enough for me to fully enjoy a game with quick-saving because I can still beat them in a breeze. Unless I was to create artificial difficulty for myself (which is dumb - I shouldn't be playing against myself, I should be playing against the game).

Poorly-thought out save systems can kill a game for me. I appreciate the option of having quick-saving. But it's too convenient. Might as have put the 'invulnerability' button right next to the quick-save button, and save everybody the time.

Then WHY are you saving? It's an OPTION! Nobody forbids you NOT to save your progress if you want that much of a challenge.

I think people are usually fine with certain genres having checkpoints. At times, it can even add more weight to your gameplay performance/choices, at the expense of your convenience.

This topic always comes up when a game--that seemingly needs it has a silly checkpoint/save system--ships with an awful save system. I remember a similar thread pop up when Hard Reset--a PC exclusive game--launched with it's save system. I bet this thread is in response to Shadowrun: Returns.

illmatic87

Mainly, in response to titles that HAD manual saving option, but NOT anymore (Latest Bioshock, Hitman and Splinter Cell games).