New encryption chip will end pc piracy...or so they say

Seems like they are going to start putting this new encryption chip on new mobo's. Honestly this seems like a good idea since we wouldnt have to deal with crap like mass effect's copy protection. in the end i bet it will be craked with a simple download or something. thoughts?

link

this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?rob1101

I couldn't have said it better myself.

this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?rob1101

this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?rob1101

[QUOTE="rob1101"]this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?darkmagician06

Yea...and how will it do that?

[QUOTE="darkmagician06"][QUOTE="rob1101"]this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?GodLovesDead

Yea...and how will it do that?

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

[QUOTE="darkmagician06"][QUOTE="rob1101"]this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?darkmagician06

Yea...and how will it do that?

And call in for every game? If it didn't require internet then they wouldn't have any power over it anyways. There's just no way I can imagine this being able to work.

This would be great except for two factors.

1. Its likely not all motherboards will support this feature. If there is boards with this chip and boards without this chip, you can bet most boards bought will be without the chip. Know what happens when new chips and boards dont sell? Ask Ageia.

2. Even if it is on all boards, a cracked firmware or hardware hack disabling the chip will likely be available within days, if not hours.

That protection will be bypassed just like every other protection in the past, rendering that idea pretty useless, besides losing money on something that is not going to work anyways (at least not for too long). Also you need to realize that implementing a chip most likely is going to force MB manufactures to redesign their designs in order to put that thing there which will probably raise MBs prices or cause hardware/software conflicts with the legal stuff installed.

Just keep in mind that every single protection released so far has punished us (star-force for example), instead of preventing piracy.

And one more thing, this idea is not new, it's rather old and has been bypassed already.

Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle for more info.

Meh, I'm for sure going to consoles next gen....maybe this gen. Not saying there isn't piracy, but alot less in consoles. PC gamers don't want piracy portection, and pirates are going unchallenged. PC gaming is a sinking ship. Check out PC game sales for proof.cetzop

I just did and oh wait, TOB had a double digit % higher in sales on PC than consoles put together. FISSION MAILED!

[QUOTE="cetzop"]Meh, I'm for sure going to consoles next gen....maybe this gen. Not saying there isn't piracy, but alot less in consoles. PC gamers don't want piracy portection, and pirates are going unchallenged. PC gaming is a sinking ship. Check out PC game sales for proof.death1505921

I just did and oh wait, TOB had a double digit % higher in sales on PC than consoles put together. FISSION MAILED!

[QUOTE="cetzop"]Meh, I'm for sure going to consoles next gen....maybe this gen. Not saying there isn't piracy, but alot less in consoles. PC gamers don't want piracy portection, and pirates are going unchallenged. PC gaming is a sinking ship. Check out PC game sales for proof.vash47

And next time check out your IQ before posting.

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

[QUOTE="vash47"]

[QUOTE="cetzop"]Meh, I'm for sure going to consoles next gen....maybe this gen. Not saying there isn't piracy, but alot less in consoles. PC gamers don't want piracy portection, and pirates are going unchallenged. PC gaming is a sinking ship. Check out PC game sales for proof.cetzop

And next time check out your IQ before posting.

Yes, the truth that for some reason PC gaming generates more money than all the consoles put together hurts so badly. Since you are oh so informed, please link me some sources showing multi play games outselling the PC. And I want at least 5. Since you said plurel. I gave a credible one about TOB now I expect you to do the same, or check your attitude at the door.

haha now lets see what developers say when their games still dont sell 4 million copies on PC.

"Its the gnomes...the gnomes stole the games!" they'll say.

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

Feran

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

[QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

mrbojangles25

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

artur79

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

[QUOTE="artur79"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

mrbojangles25

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="artur79"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

cetzop

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

That article only tells you that an effort is underway to get the chip installed. It tells you nothing about how it operates or what kind of hoops distributors could make us jump through. Until we know more information there is no reason to get worked up over it.

There are a few questions I would like answered about the chip.

1. Are its checks invisible to the user?

2. Does it allow me to replay old favorites on a new computer even if the distributor/developer are no longer in business?

3. Does it require some kind of internet access?

If I get a offical yes to the first two and a no to the third I think I'll be ok with this chip in place.

That article only tells you that an effort is underway to get the chip installed. It tells you nothing about how it operates or what kind of hoops distributors could make us jump through. Until we know more information there is no reason to get worked up over it.

There are a few questions I would like answered about the chip.

1. Are its checks invisible to the user?

2. Does it allow me to replay old favorites on a new computer even if the distributor/developer are no longer in business?

3. Does it require some kind of internet access?

If I get a offical yes to the first two and a no to the third I think I'll be ok with this chip in place.

Drosa

I can tell you right now that you will get a yes to question 2. Why? Because games will need to be coded in order for this to work. Therefore, games not codes for this system will still work...its not like the chip is going to disable half your memory or your GPU...its simply there for game developers to use.

The way I see it is like this: the chip is the actual radio and sound system of the car, and the game will be the faceplate to the radio. Now, you can still do everything you want to do with the car, except listen to the radio. In order to do that, you need the faceplate (game). Only this is a really nice radio so it will let you play with your old cassettes (old games) too...it just wont let you listen to new CDs without the faceplate.

[QUOTE="artur79"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

mrbojangles25

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

yea because thats what we need. "Sorry you can't play this game, your system specs are fine you just need Mobo X". 3 months later "You need to upgrade to mobo Y to play this game" That potentialy will lead to very crooked agreements with game companies and hardware manufacturers. Why would you wan't to be locked in even more than you already are? Its not like the game its self could be modded to completely ignore the chip anyway.

Seems like they are going to start putting this new encryption chip on new mobo's. Honestly this seems like a good idea since we wouldnt have to deal with crap like mass effect's copy protection. in the end i bet it will be craked with a simple download or something. thoughts?

link

darkmagician06

Of course it will be cracked with a firmware mod or something.

Piracy has always been, and will always be, a cat-and-mouse game...it makes you wonder why they even bother.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="artur79"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

rob1101

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

yea because thats what we need. "Sorry you can't play this game, your system specs are fine you just need Mobo X". 3 months later "You need to upgrade to mobo Y to play this game" That potentialy will lead to very crooked agreements with game companies and hardware manufacturers. Why would you wan't to be locked in even more than you already are? Its not like the game its self could be modded to completely ignore the chip anyway.

all I am saying is that its worth a shot.

frankly, the idea that theyre at least trying is warming my heart because it means they still do care about the PC market. If they care, theyre not going to kill it, so they will not do anything that will alienate us that much.

I see the logic to your argument, but no...that wont happen. As for modding the game, again that would be insanely hard to do. Much harder than inputting a fake CD key and getting a no CD crack.

Like I said before: so long as the measure isnt an inconvenience it is worth trying.

sounds like another product to heat your system up.

if you can make it, you can crack it.

Anyone see a monopoly on motherboards?

What's next? Gaming companies making the motherboards that are required by their own games?

This will never work.

Another one of those smart arses chips :|. Intel has/had their awesome anti cheat chip that should be integrated in all of their motherboards. Did it happen? nope. Will anybody care, except the professional gamers? nope. This will most likely require internet, will add to the price of the mobo and taxes, will raise the power consumption for absolutely nothing, will not be supported by all the game devs and by all the hardware companies. In short useless.

If they want to stop piracy, the best way is to change the composition of the game, to make the game composed of big files that can't be opened or edited with anything and the most important thing, get rid of the .exe, .sys and .dll files.

I was reading the other day how the FBI put a a Child Pornography site on the web and raided anybodies home who visited it, and that they were going to start doing it with games, movies, and CD's. THIS right here will cut down on piracy in the USA.

I hope that we find a way to cut down on Piracy. IMO it should be a Felony with a mandatory Prison Sentence of 10 years.

I was reading the other day how the FBI put a a Child Pornography site on the web and raided anybodies home who visited it, and that they were going to start doing it with games, movies, and CD's. THIS right here will cut down on piracy in the USA.

I hope that we find a way to cut down on Piracy. IMO it should be a Felony with a mandatory Prison Sentence of 10 years.

superkoolstud

In my country you have to pay from 2K $ to 8K $ and you get from 4 to 8 years in prison, so they are there, only if the Police would be efficient enough.

But more importantly, TCPA was designed to protect the user's data from external attack, not from attack by the owner. Defending against owner attack is a much harder problem in hardware tamper resistance. TCPA chips have not been designed to resist local hardware attack, such as power analysis, RF analysis, or timing analysis. This is one of the examples that show that TCPA was not intended for DRM, which requires much higher levels of tamper resistance, since you don't trust the owner.IBM

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

[QUOTE="darkmagician06"][QUOTE="rob1101"]this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?darkmagician06

Yea...and how will it do that?

I'm on my 3rd motherboard this year. Two got damaged during shipping of my system across the country. So are you telling that due to some idiots fault at the shipping companies, I won't be able to play? Plus, I refuse to purchase any motherboard that has any form of hardware that scans what I play, install, watch, whatever. Next thing we will have is Big Brother watching over us, barcodes being stamped on our heads, and assigned roles in life instead of choosing what we do.

Also, there would be no real way for the hardware to know if it was a legit copy. And even if it did, there would always be a way around it. Just look at all of the modded consoles out there. Who is going to say that it wouldn't be done on the most modded system in the world? Then look at it this way, will we have to contiuously have to update the firmware on this chip once new games are released? As the PC isn't owned by one person who sticks a stamp of approval.

Either way, I'd stay away from it. I don't want to have to go through even more of a hassle just to get my F-ing LEGIT copies of games working.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

[QUOTE="darkmagician06"][QUOTE="rob1101"]this is horrible news. It will not stop piracy. It will make things harder for people who legally bought the game though. You want to install the game you most likely need an Internet connection. You want to install it on more then one of your computers? Think again. Want to upgrade your motherboard? Think again. If your motherboard dies or gets fried then you have two big problems now. This is a horrible idea. Please don't enforce this. Why should we be punished for something a pirate did?darkmagician06

Yea...and how will it do that?

Seems like they are going to start putting this new encryption chip on new mobo's. Honestly this seems like a good idea since we wouldnt have to deal with crap like mass effect's copy protection. in the end i bet it will be craked with a simple download or something. thoughts?

link

darkmagician06

Um, I think you are a bit misguided if you think TPM is going to remove the kind of DRM being used for Mass Effect (and other games). In fact, TPM is pretty much designed to make DRM enforceable, and complement it.

I think everyone should go and read a rew articles about TPM and 'Trusted Computing':

Trusted Platform Module

Trusted Computing

Can You Trust Your Computer?

Trusted Computing FAQ

Trusted Computing: Promise and Risk (EFF)

From everything I have read about it, TPM and Trusted Computing is all about software/game developers NOT trusting the end user, and implementing ever more restrictive measures to ensure you cannot tamper with that software or use it in any way other than what the publisher intends, including locking it for use on a single PC, altering functionality without your consent, or even deactivating it when they decide the product has reached the end of its shelf life.

With TPM, they will (potentially) be able to lock a game into working only on the original PC where it was installed, because it will be tied to the TPM chip. That means you won't be able to install it on another machine, because it won't work. You can't sell it or give it away for the same reason. So this is another nail in the coffin of second-hand game sales, forcing you to buy only new copies from the retailer/publisher (and thereby increasing their profits). You won't be able to give your games away to friends for the same reason.

Also, as these companies keep stating in the EULA, you are only being given a 'license' to use the software, and there is usually a clause in there somewhere stating they can revoke that license at any time, for any reason. Until now, that didn't really matter because you could continue to install your games and play them on any machine regardless. With TPM, it will now be impossible to continue playing that game if permission is revoked, as it is tied to the TPM chip.

In essense, TPM makes DRM far more viable and effective, and even more desirable for companies that want to control their customer base.

It's not really intended to combat piracy (except maybe casual disk sharing), but to lock consumers into a system that is controlled by the publishers. With TPM, if you want to play a game on 3 or 4 PCs that you own, they could (in future) force you to buy 3 or 4 separate copies of the game to install on each machine. And if a game requires TPM, you probably will not be able to run it on a PC without a TPM chip. It may install, but it could simply not run.

How about forced upgrades? They could technically prevent your game from starting until you download the latest patch, whether you want it or not. That 'patch' might limit functionality in the game, or add other content you find objectionable. They could potentially force you not to use any game mods, or the game won't run - after all, a mod would be 'changing' some of the game content.

As with DRM, TPM is designed to take control out of your hands, and place it in the hands of those who made the software. With a hard-wired solution, they can dictate to you how, when and where you use that software, and even how long you can use it for before they decide to pull the plug. And you will have no recourse because that will be written into the EULA that you agreed to in order to install that game in the first place.

TPM and DRM assume YOU are the enemy. With TPM, the encryption keys are kept secret and hidden from you. You are not allowed to see them. Which means you are handing over control to a third party. It's like having a new lock fitted to your house but you let a third party keep the keys, and you are totally reliant on them to let you in when you want. And not just for games, but for all software. How about Word encrypting your documents for you - and then only letting you read them on that same PC, and not letting you use any other application other than Word to read them? This is what consumer lock-in is all about, and why Microsoft is one of the key forces driving this kind of 'protection'. How about not being able to read a website, because the server will only allow access to the latest Internet Explorer browser, and lock out all other browsers? How about your OS not allowing 'unlicensed' software to be installed, and only 'certified' software? Emulators? They probably won't work because of the way TPM communicates with the software - any detected interference leads to a lockdown.

Yes, the future of PC gaming looks fabulous. For the developers. And the publishers.

Unfortunately the gamers will be left holding the dirty end of the stick again, and paying a premium for the privilege.

[QUOTE="artur79"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Feran"]

I think this is a good idea, if it means we dont have to reley on DRM and a 3 install limit and will bring back the faith of the devs then its all good.... dosent mean it will kill piracey all together but I think it will stop the casuals its far too easy these days to use Bit-torrent than to physically let some stranger mod your 200 dollar mobo....

mrbojangles25

thats true. with this chip, piracy will problably drop down to the same ratio as on consoles...yes, some people will have modded 360s and some will have modded PC mobos, but not enough to make a dent.

I think this is a great idea and it doesnt screw over the consumer.

That's a big assumption right there. Copy protection schemes tend to piss a lot of legit customers off, they are annoying, that's a fact. Until I see that it works like a charm without giving me problems, I'm a sceptic.

I wonder how they are going to make ALL the mobo-companies include that chip in their design? I'm sure some smart ass will go: "Hey, guys! Here's how we sell more mobos than the competition, lets not include this **** in our products!"

The irony in this whole thing is that this opens up for even more ways to earn dirty money in certain regions. Modded mobos are going to be huge in Asia.

Sigh...

I fail to see how a chip on a piece of hardware, instead of the current measures, would be an inconvenience.

This isnt a scheme its an actual, physical, tangible solution. Its not some "install limit" or some semi-virus like securom or whatever.

As for how theyre going to get all mobo companies to do it? Simple, they just get them to do it.

-Gamers want to play games
-Mobo makers want to sell hardware to gamers
-Gamemakers want to sell games to gamers
-Gamemakers say "our software will only work on mobos that have this chip"
-Mobo makers refuse to install chip, mobo makers sell fewer products because gamers want games, and to get games gamer must have mobo with special chip.

It wouldn't be that hard; just look at cable TV. Customers were given essentially no choice; upgrade to a good TV by a certain time, or you wont be getting service. All the game devs and mobo makers need to is get together and say "by 2010 all motherboards will have this chip installed" and thats done.

Its not an inconvenience
Its not invading your privacy
Its nothing. Just a chip.

I can think of many ways the chip can inconvenience me. Some of them have already been posted. I'm not going to start an argument about this, since, to be honest, I don't know much about what it will and will not do.

I see you're a huge optimist when it comes to this chip, sorry, I'm not. Smacking protection-hardware onto a mobo.... I don't know how that will turn out, but history has shown me one thing: that most protection-software is annoying as hell and I wish it would burn for an eternity someplace warm. I think I'll save my happy dance for when the chip is regarded as manna sent from heaven for the industry. Then I'll be all for it. Until then, meh... not interested.

And to the guy who wrote: "Pirates: BU-BU-BUT IT HURTS TEH LEGIT CONSUMERS!!!!!!" So you're pretty much calling every poster that's said that a pirate, huh? Nice.

A little healthy scepticism will get you far in life. Don't let companies BOHICA all over you. You're the customer, YOU have the power.