New RTS game - your opinions wanted

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garfield360uk

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#1 garfield360uk
Member since 2006 • 20381 Posts

Hey all

I was thinking of getting a new strategy game for my pc but I am unsure of what to get. I have these choices:

Command and Conquer: The first decade
Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium War's
Company of Hero's - Gold edition (normal game plus expansion pack)
Supreme Commander - Gold edition (normal game plus expansion pack)

I can get one of these games for £18 (they all cost the same price of £18 which is around $34 US).

I like real time strategy games that involve resource gathering and have tactical elements (rather than just tank rushing all the time), I have played the majority of the Command and Conquer series (Generals and C&C 3 are the only versions I have not played the full versions).

I would like to go online with this game as well, I would prefer the game not to have cheaters (such as those who have units walking out of their construction units constantly) and one with a friendly community.

Thank you

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Indestructible2

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#2 Indestructible2
Member since 2007 • 5935 Posts
Medieval 2: Total War.
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mfsa

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#3 mfsa
Member since 2007 • 3328 Posts

I like real time strategy games that involve resource gathering and have tactical elements (rather than just tank rushing all the time), I have played the majority of the Command and Conquer series (Generals and C&C 3 are the only versions I have not played the full versions).

I would like to go online with this game as well, I would prefer the game not to have cheaters (such as those who have units walking out of their construction units constantly) and one with a friendly community.

Garfield360UK

While they are great games and etc, you can probably rule out the first decade right away. It is a tank rusher, and it's not very popular online. While C&C3 is much more popular online, it is still a tank rusher. If you really like C&C - then get either/or, but as you've played them all, almost, you know what you're getting.

So I would say rule them out. It's either supcom or coh. I own both (originals, not expansions) and I think it's fair to say they are both great RTS games with solid online communities. Given that they both have demos, I'd say go and try both demos right now - they will convey the game experience far better than anyone is able with words.

SupCom is really all about macromanagement. You have huge maps, you build units in huge swarms, you have few (or no) special abilities to worry about. Large scale unit control is simple. The biggest thing you have to concern yourself with is making sure the right units are attacking the right units.

The game relies very heavily on counters - and that's really what makes the game great. You send in tanks, so I send in artillery. So you send in bombers, so I send in fighters. You send in fighters so I send in AAA, so you send in artillery. All of a sudden, you have these huge, epic battles waging on land, air and sea, with massive numbers of units. It's not just great to fight and win, when a big battle comes together, it's just great to watch and play. Regardless of the outcome.

The economy is a little broken, in my opinion. One of the neat things is that units don't cost x to make upfront, they cost so much per second (or some similar delay) of production. This means that you can strike a balance between your income and your expenditure, and alter your production as such. It also means that if you don't have the cabbage, you can still build stuff - it just builds slower. But the good aside, this is a game where most of your economy is centered around your base, something I think is bad. I think resources should be territory based.

There's also a ton of building to do. I gather the expansion reduced that a bit, with templates, but you're still gonna spend a ton of time building buildings. This may appeal to you, but I personally dislike it.

Some other flaws with the game that may or may not bother you - firstly, the single player campaign is awful. Secondly, there's no infantry - it's all unmanned robots in space. Thirdly, the AI is SAI - special AI, if you know what I mean. You buy SupCom, you're playing it online.

SupCom, in short, is about large scale battles on huge maps. It's about being able to intelligently plan an attack using a large number of different units collaboratively which each have very specific roles and counter-roles.

CoH is almost the polar opposite. It's all about micromanagement. You'll use a much smaller number of units which serve very specific roles and which need to be managed closely. The game has a cover mechanic in play which means infantry needs to be micromanaged constantly. You need to keep your units in good cover, and make use of your special abilities. The cover mechanic also means that you may find yourself trying to suppress and flank an enemy while he does the same thing, which leads to moderate clickfests.

The game also has zonal damage - hitting something from the side or rear will probably do more damage. So charging a tank head on will probably get you killed, while using a diversion and ambushing a tank on the rear will likely spell victory. A lot of thought and planning goes into your attacks.

The resource system is based on territory control, which means that you will have to play a relatively aggressive, expansionist game. There is also an intricate supply line system in play, whereby you only receive resources from particular zones if they are supplied to your main HQ. This means that clear territorial zones become apparent, which means that front lines emerge. It's great to be battling for something other than simple attrition in RTS games. It's how war should be. The supply line also means you can cut off your enemy's frontlines by launching invasions deep into their territory. Dangerous, but it may spell victory if you win.

The game has a very minimalist building model. You have a slightly pre-built base, and can only build major buildings at that spot. Certain defences can be built in the field, and some buildings (all of which may be garrisoned) can be converted into front-line barracks, which means you can recruit and reinforce on the fly, meaning combat stays on the frontlines a lot more.

Everything is destructable, so once the big guns come out, the world starts getting blown apart. Buildings, hedges, walls. It all comes down. It's super exciting to see the world be torn apart by your battle, but it is also functional - as the world and its layout is used in your overall strategic approach, so how you use it, and how you prevent the enemy from using it, is key.

In classic Relic tradition, CoH has a great campaign and awesome AI. You can get a hell of a lot out of both singleplayer and multiplayer.

Both games are great, and ideally you would buy both - they both have a lot to offer. My personal favourite of the two is CoH, but mostly because I like war to be about men dying. I find robots in space just too distant and soulless for my taste - when it's meant to be a war game, anyway.

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garfield360uk

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#4 garfield360uk
Member since 2006 • 20381 Posts
Cheers for that Mfsa, a very good break down of the two games for me there. Much appriciated. I will hope to follow the advice with the demos, but I have a question on Company of Hero's. Are there many large scale battles or is it just 5 men versus one tank in a normal battle etc?
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mfsa

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#5 mfsa
Member since 2007 • 3328 Posts

Cheers for that Mfsa, a very good break down of the two games for me there. Much appriciated. I will hope to follow the advice with the demos, but I have a question on Company of Hero's. Are there many large scale battles or is it just 5 men versus one tank in a normal battle etc?Garfield360UK

The battles get pretty big. The way infantry units are handled is in squads, you don't juse build one man at a time, you build a squad of men and as long as you have one man alive, you can reinforce lost men through the squad, meaning unit construction is less of a hassle and can be done on your frontlines. You might have 6 or 7 men in each squad at maximum capacity.

You have a single population cap, and all units you build contribute towards it. This means you need to learn to strike a balance between infantry and armour. It's a long time since I actually played the game, so I'm a little hazy on the numbers, but you might have a population cap of about 65, and an infantry squad might set you back about 6 population. So you can get quite a lot of squads out there. But a tank might cost you 10 pop. It's all well balanced, so you can't spam stuff, it's impossible to win through overwhelming force alone.

The battles are big, fast and exciting for sure. You'll have a lot of units to manage when at your population cap - but you'll be thankful that it's as few as it is, because micromanagement takes talent. CoH is not a beginner-friendly RTS.

But SupCom utterly dwarfs them in size. SupCom has a one thousand unit limit cap. I believe this also covers buildings, but either way, when you're sending a fleet of a thirty submarines towards your enemy, and that's a third of just your navy alone, and you have a wing of 30 jets inbound and a few hundred tanks... well, you get the idea.

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nutcrackr

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#6 nutcrackr
Member since 2004 • 13032 Posts
supreme commander is my choice if only to experience the immense scale, its a very solid RTS that has missions lasting quite a while, but I think the scale while a tad gimmicky is worth the price.
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#7 Rattlesnake_8
Member since 2004 • 18452 Posts
Company of Heroes gets my vote, its currently the best RTS game on the market imo. Being able to get COH and it's expansion together make it even better.
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garfield360uk

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#8 garfield360uk
Member since 2006 • 20381 Posts
Hmmm some interesing points from Nutcrackr and Mfsa. How big are the demo's for the games? I like the idea of the big scale battles but I don't want to get it if its just going to be a case of bigest army/tank spammer wins.
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DarkRecruit

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#9 DarkRecruit
Member since 2005 • 3391 Posts

Hmmm some interesing points from Nutcrackr and Mfsa. How big are the demo's for the games? I like the idea of the big scale battles but I don't want to get it if its just going to be a case of bigest army/tank spammer wins.Garfield360UK

If you want big, stragetic and epic battles get Medieval 2 Total War and expansion.

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Gokuja

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#10 Gokuja
Member since 2005 • 3767 Posts

Out of those you can mark C&C off like the one poster said, its very rush friendly.

CoH is good, i just bought it (finally) and am enjoying it. Sup Com is a good game but my comp can't handle it past a certain point. It is technically a tank rushing game...well kinda. You can mass spam tanks within the first 10-15 min's that i remember, but it takes alot of tanks usually to beat your opponent. Rushing is not something that usually wins that game unless the other person is just sitting on their ***. You have such a big map and soo many strategies in SC, I can't wait till i get a better PC, if ever.

So, even though i liked C&C 3 but traded it in, and I'm feeling like The first decade wasn't worth the purchase I'd go with sup com or CoH

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garfield360uk

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#11 garfield360uk
Member since 2006 • 20381 Posts

Cool, thanks for the help. I will have a look at the two games mentioned (Supreme Command and Company of Hero's) and get the demo's. I will also have a look at tht Medievil- Total War game as I played a demo of one of those games a while ago and enjoyed it.

Thanksagain everybody :)

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dayaccus007

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#12 dayaccus007
Member since 2007 • 4349 Posts
Company of Heroes is fun, but yeah try the demo first
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panconmote

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#13 panconmote
Member since 2007 • 101 Posts
DUNGEON KEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#14 TkLive
Member since 2007 • 730 Posts
Go with Supreme Commander or Company of Heroes.
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thusaha

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#15 thusaha
Member since 2007 • 14495 Posts
CoH.
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purple_MAN1832

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#16 purple_MAN1832
Member since 2004 • 2125 Posts

I would say go with CoH or WiC.

CoH or CoH:OF is a smaller scale game, although with the expansion there is now the "blob" tactic. Otherwise, most of the CoH battles revolve around squads doing 5v4, 5v5, or 5v6 until you go with other players.

WiC is a much larger scale game. I've only played the demo, but I love it. It has an unconventional unit buying system. The multiplayer battles become insane in WiC with up to 8 people per team.

In the end it's your choice but those 2 are what I would recommend.

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mac631

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#17 mac631
Member since 2006 • 168 Posts
CoH.
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#18 ElArab
Member since 2007 • 5754 Posts
I say CoH, but make sure you try the supcom demo, just to make sure that you'll like it, cuz let's just say...Supcom isn't for everyone.
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#19 Swiftstrike5
Member since 2005 • 6950 Posts
Coh is small scale battles with more control. Supreme Commander is EPIC scale battles with nukes, lasers, and anything a Sci-Fi dude could want.