Opinions on the gaming industry?

What are your opinions on the gaming industry? 

I feel like it's too hard for developers to make a ton of money. Lately I've been seeing studios shut down (THQ, LucasArts, etc.) which really is a shame and sad to see.

Indie game creators aren't seeing a ton of profit either. I read an article on my Game Informer magazine which featured an indie game developer share his story of when he and 3 of his friends created a game. He was the only one to put in money, so they agreed that all profit will go to him until he made his money back. 
He didn't make his money back, and in fact lost a profit. The development took 8 months.

Does this not seem like a waste of effort to some people? I'm not at all saying gaming development should be stopped, but don't you think developers aren't getting enough reward for effort?

I'd just like to see your opinions. Cheers. :roll: 

Crash incoming. Should be good

Console transitions always create drama. It's fun! We're not heading for a new crash. It's the digital age and gaming has been healthy for 30 years. It can't happen.

I am disappointed by the slow hardware progression and the focus on mobile will hold it back even more. Everybody needs to hurry up with those stacked graphene chips.

I am especially bummed about Unreal Engine 4 being dumbed down. The realtime global illumination system (SVOGI) they were showing off last year is gone. That engine is the baseline of next-gen development. Without technologies like SVOGI, next-gen is going to be just This Gen HD. PC already does that. SVOGI was supposed to be the intermediary between what we had this gen and ray tracing.

At this point CryEngine 3 does everything UE4 does - and more, since it has realtime GI for the sun :/ It's not as well supported though, so not many are tempted to jump ship. id is out of the race, although future GPUs will have built-in support for megatextures. id Tech 6 is supposed to have ray tracing, so thanks to consoles we can expect in 2020. The Japanese may push for more esoteric technology but if they won't translate the documentation their engines will be as useless as MT Framework was this gen. Then you have all the in-house bullsh*t EA and others are trying to pull.

Hopefully the next generation won't be too long.

Idk, games and gamers are better than ever. I mean, games are mainstream now and not just for pathetic losers. Things have changed for the better.

Idk, games and gamers are better than ever. I mean, games are mainstream now and not just for pathetic losers. Things have changed for the better.

bussinrounds

If you wanna make money then join one of the big companies.

If you wanna make money then join one of the big companies.

thereal25

there seems to be an endless stream of sequels with very little innovation and an increasing focus on multiplayer and "social gaming" *shudders. it's disappointing to see developers hell bent on removing all the idiosyncrasies that made games great originally just to pander to the teen COD market who have the attention span of a knat. 

there's not been much in the past year that i've really enjoyed. hopefully in the second half of 2013 things will pick up 

Looks like the industry is dividing more then it has before.

At the start of the generation mid tier games went away for blockbusters, and small games often labelled "Indie" were looked upon as a worthless wate of time, both within the industry and from the average consumer.

But with DD, came the mid tier game again, and indie gaames came into thier own (still don't need to be strictly indie, but people tend to classify them as such). And around the end of the Gen people seemed sick of the AAA "try to please all, end up pleasing no one" way of making games. Alot of the more popular games were smaller in budget, not afraid to make statements, and make the gameplay the Devs felt it needed to have, NOT focus groups or any Board of members.

That split, may have saved the games industry, there is a chance that the huge AAA budget (which are bloated now by so many people that are unneeded in the industry and adverts) will crumble, they are simply not all that sustanable given that they have to make money back AND have leftober money to do R&D on new games and concepts.

Add to all that how restricted the consumer has become across the board: DRM, Online Pass, DLC that is not really DLC, Map packs that are near mandetory. And you have a growingly unhappy user base.

Most AAA games have become cookie cutter, only the ost blind of fanboys would argue they are not. It does not depend on platform. The majority of FPS games are so similar that it almost hurts, just like alot of JRPGs were just before the genre nearly died, Open world games are at this point so similar that it is basicly just the dressing that is different (and maybe one or two half gimicky gameplay elements) Due to the devs not having the hardware, or ideas needed for filling those open worlds.

3RD person shooters? Well if I say cover it makes everyone cringe.

It is not that the frontrunners of all these things are to blame, but the followers who are too risk aversive to even try to create something.

So in a way I think we might see a Crash of sorts, but I doubt that it will look as the last one. A bigger number of studios will be unaffected, but I suspect that a few Publishers thought too big to fall will die off, and become shadows like Atari basicly did (only Atari in name anyways).

One of the biggest problems with the gaming industry, is the incentive has shifted from wanting to make a fantastic game, to wanting to make a game that sells well. 

A return of profit, is of more concern to big publishers, and non-gaming investors, than actually having a great game. 

Of course this is a symptom of valueing the investment class over any other. 

I have high hopes for kickstarter, because the investors are people wanting a great game. Not a return in profit, or stock margins.

Another thing, is political correct nonsense.  Of course it destroys art as a whole, any kind of censoring does, regardless of the so called 'justification,' or 'moral value' of it. 

With the rise of crowd-funding and indie gaming I couldn't care less what happens to the McGaming industry. 

Kickstarter is where it's at for me. I hope it gives devs a gaming rennaisance of sorts. We need an huge equilibrium to all the excessive crap that is being offered by publishers these days. 

Honestly, I feel that gaming is becoming devoid of fresh ideas, something akin to Hollywood these days, but in this case it's far worse than what's going on in the movie industry.

It's certainly not "doomed" as some would say; in fact, gaming has been doing better than ever. The money invested and interest in this business has never been higher, and it will continue to grow.

But that is exactly my problem with it.

I have a feeling people strive to create games only to make money. Whenever I read an article concerning developers at a certain studio, they often mention terrible working conditions and the fact that their job takes too long.  Games aren't crafted with love and care anymore, they lack soul. Sure, when you look at newer games and evaluate them, there is not much to complain about. Technically they are very impressive, but that's it. They are formulaic and often rely on reputation, as evidenced by mass and unnecessary rebooting old franchises which I won't mention. 

It's worth mentioning that the developer/publisher relationship is quite similar to the Hollywood director/producer one, and as a result the aforementioned "formula" comes to play; they rarely try anything new, when an idea eventually succeeds they exploit it until everything stagnates, or enters decadence. These days when they have the courage to try something new they usually slap a revered franchise's name (e.g. "Tomb Raider"). Sometimes it works (Far Cry 3), most of the time it doesn't.

Another thing that's bugging me is how every game wants to be "universal". They often rely on variety (which isn't bad if done right) rather than to focus on one or two things. It seems like these days every game needs to have a sub-par multiplayer or shallow QTE. Target audience is everyone after all, and more people mean more $$$.

But things I hate most about gaming today is the circle jerking and elitist communities. Elitism works in esports because it often means efficiency, but by boycotting "newbs", the general gaming public will certainly never become educated.

Perhaps I should have blogged this, but wth.

With the rise of crowd-funding and indie gaming I couldn't care less what happens to the McGaming industry. 

-wildflower-

Kickstarter is where it's at for me. I hope it gives devs a gaming rennaisance of sorts. We need an huge equilibrium to all the excessive crap that is being offered by publishers these days. 

jer_1

What are your opinions on the gaming industry? 

I feel like it's too hard for developers to make a ton of money. Lately I've been seeing studios shut down (THQ, LucasArts, etc.) which really is a shame and sad to see.

Indie game creators aren't seeing a ton of profit either. I read an article on my Game Informer magazine which featured an indie game developer share his story of when he and 3 of his friends created a game. He was the only one to put in money, so they agreed that all profit will go to him until he made his money back. 
He didn't make his money back, and in fact lost a profit. The development took 8 months.

Does this not seem like a waste of effort to some people? I'm not at all saying gaming development should be stopped, but don't you think developers aren't getting enough reward for effort?

I'd just like to see your opinions. Cheers. :roll: 

toughtrasher

Also talking about a crash is ludicrus and people who think that seem to forget so many aspects, no new console for almost 10 years, less games being developed because they are expensive to make, and so on.

I personally don't see a crash coming at all, but I think many of the games of the next console era will be more like MMOs in that they will be services and not so much stand alone experiences. More and more games similar to Destiny are what I see the industry moving toward, with greater social media integration, microtransactions and competitive gaming elements like leaderboards and weekly/monthly competitions. I think this year with the release of the new consoles will be the beginning of a new era for gaming, will this era be positive or negative its up to each of us to decide, but I think we are past of no return and you will either embrace it or give it up all together.

I personally don't see a crash coming at all, but I think many of the games of the next console era will be more like MMOs in that they will be services and not so much stand alone experiences. More and more games similar to Destiny are what I see the industry moving toward, with greater social media integration, microtransactions and competitive gaming elements like leaderboards and weekly/monthly competitions. I think this year with the release of the new consoles will be the beginning of a new era for gaming, will this era be positive or negative its up to each of us to decide, but I think we are past of no return and you will either embrace it or give it up all together.

Cordliss

[QUOTE="thereal25"]

If you wanna make money then join one of the big companies.

kraken2109

there seems to be an endless stream of sequels with very little innovation and an increasing focus on multiplayer and "social gaming" *shudders. it's disappointing to see developers hell bent on removing all the idiosyncrasies that made games great originally just to pander to the teen COD market who have the attention span of a knat. 

there's not been much in the past year that i've really enjoyed. hopefully in the second half of 2013 things will pick up 

Macutchi

I think it's pretty good.  I enjoy quite a large amount of what comes out, from companies big and small.

Can't ask for much more than that.  I'm lovin it.

Idk, games and gamers are better than ever. I mean, games are mainstream now and not just for pathetic losers. Things have changed for the better.

bussinrounds

Feel ill after watching.

Gaming's becoming Hollywood and I don't mean that due to the explosions and exaggerated stuff you'd see in some games, I mean it's becoming extremely linear and story driven, that is terrible in my opinion. Indie devs are just looking for a quick buck (I mean really, Kickstarter? jesus christ) and with all this stupid feminism and people looking for games to be "deeper" or "more realistic and engaging" games are just losing what made them cool and awesome. Games are about escaping reality and living in a cool impossible world, they are not there to be plagued with stupid realistic crap (obv referring to certain things) or to actually replace your boring stupid life. Most people just follow the crowd and don't even know what they're talking about when praising and criticizing.8-Bitterness

some people want to escape reality in a deep world in which you can full immerse yourself, not some shooter that looks "awesome" lol.

also a lot of indie devs are actually trying, you seem like someone who doesn't have much passion for anything, maybe because of the whole "your boring stupid life" thing

Gaming's becoming Hollywood and I don't mean that due to the explosions and exaggerated stuff you'd see in some games, I mean it's becoming extremely linear and story driven, that is terrible in my opinion. Indie devs are just looking for a quick buck (I mean really, Kickstarter? jesus christ) and with all this stupid feminism and people looking for games to be "deeper" or "more realistic and engaging" games are just losing what made them cool and awesome. Games are about escaping reality and living in a cool impossible world, they are not there to be plagued with stupid realistic crap (obv referring to certain things) or to actually replace your boring stupid life. Most people just follow the crowd and don't even know what they're talking about when praising and criticizing.8-Bitterness

Gaming's becoming Hollywood and I don't mean that due to the explosions and exaggerated stuff you'd see in some games, I mean it's becoming extremely linear and story driven, that is terrible in my opinion. Indie devs are just looking for a quick buck (I mean really, Kickstarter? jesus christ) and with all this stupid feminism and people looking for games to be "deeper" or "more realistic and engaging" games are just losing what made them cool and awesome. Games are about escaping reality and living in a cool impossible world, they are not there to be plagued with stupid realistic crap (obv referring to certain things) or to actually replace your boring stupid life. Most people just follow the crowd and don't even know what they're talking about when praising and criticizing.8-Bitterness

[QUOTE="8-Bitterness"]Gaming's becoming Hollywood and I don't mean that due to the explosions and exaggerated stuff you'd see in some games, I mean it's becoming extremely linear and story driven, that is terrible in my opinion. Indie devs are just looking for a quick buck (I mean really, Kickstarter? jesus christ) and with all this stupid feminism and people looking for games to be "deeper" or "more realistic and engaging" games are just losing what made them cool and awesome. Games are about escaping reality and living in a cool impossible world, they are not there to be plagued with stupid realistic crap (obv referring to certain things) or to actually replace your boring stupid life. Most people just follow the crowd and don't even know what they're talking about when praising and criticizing.SKaREO

So how come you're against kickstarter?

And who exactly is saying that games should be deeper and more realistic? I mean, the most popular game at the moment is an over the top arcade shooter in COD.

And who exactly is saying that games should be deeper and more realistic? I mean, the most popular game at the moment is an over the top arcade shooter in COD.

biggest_loser

Modern Military Shooters rule the market today, and they represent today's definition of "deep and realistic". Silent majority plays these, which is why so many have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Spec Ops: The Line is probably the best example how to do a GOOD modern military shooter, ridiculing the "realism" and the genre's itself.

They are referring to the golden days of teamwork-heavy FPS (Counter-Strike) and colorful, extremely skill-based arena shooters.

[QUOTE="SKaREO"][QUOTE="8-Bitterness"]Gaming's becoming Hollywood and I don't mean that due to the explosions and exaggerated stuff you'd see in some games, I mean it's becoming extremely linear and story driven, that is terrible in my opinion. Indie devs are just looking for a quick buck (I mean really, Kickstarter? jesus christ) and with all this stupid feminism and people looking for games to be "deeper" or "more realistic and engaging" games are just losing what made them cool and awesome. Games are about escaping reality and living in a cool impossible world, they are not there to be plagued with stupid realistic crap (obv referring to certain things) or to actually replace your boring stupid life. Most people just follow the crowd and don't even know what they're talking about when praising and criticizing.biggest_loser

So how come you're against kickstarter?

And who exactly is saying that games should be deeper and more realistic? I mean, the most popular game at the moment is an over the top arcade shooter in COD.

I'm against Kickstarter because it opens the door to more corruption than it keeps out. The idea is novel, but the execution is flawed. Marketing plays a much more prominent role in crowd funding than actual skill at making games. Just presenting ideas alone generates many thousands of dollars in funding before the developer has even proven the worth of their salt. People are paying for games before they are even made nowadays.

We used to be very careful with our money, demanding demos before a full purchase, doing a lot of research in order to determine if there's substance to the development team and their promises. Today it's throwing money at a whim and crossing your fingers. There's no solidity in the industry anymore, and that's something that has been there since the beginning. I'm concerned about the future of our games if there's nothing professional about the way they are being produced.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

And who exactly is saying that games should be deeper and more realistic? I mean, the most popular game at the moment is an over the top arcade shooter in COD.

SovietsUnited

Modern Military Shooters rule the market today, and they represent today's definition of "deep and realistic". Silent majority plays these, which is why so many have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Spec Ops: The Line is probably the best example how to do a GOOD modern military shooter, ridiculing the "realism" and the genre's itself.

They are referring to the golden days of teamwork-heavy FPS (Counter-Strike) and colorful, extremely skill-based arena shooters.

I'm against Kickstarter because it opens the door to more corruption than it keeps out. The idea is novel, but the execution is flawed. Marketing plays a much more prominent role in crowd funding than actual skill at making games. Just presenting ideas alone generates many thousands of dollars in funding before the developer has even proven the worth of their salt. People are paying for games before they are even made nowadays.

We used to be very careful with our money, demanding demos before a full purchase, doing a lot of research in order to determine if there's substance to the development team and their promises. Today it's throwing money at a whim and crossing your fingers. There's no solidity in the industry anymore, and that's something that has been there since the beginning. I'm concerned about the future of our games if there's nothing professional about the way they are being produced.

SKaREO

I know what you're saying but firstly, how many kickstarter projects have turned into dud games so far? 

Second, surely you would admit that a lot of these kickstarter projects are being put up by development teams that already have experienced workers. Its not Joe Somebody pitching a game here and people are just blindly giving him money.

Have a look at some of the experienced heads behind this kickstarter Torment game. 

 

[QUOTE="Cordliss"]

I personally don't see a crash coming at all, but I think many of the games of the next console era will be more like MMOs in that they will be services and not so much stand alone experiences. More and more games similar to Destiny are what I see the industry moving toward, with greater social media integration, microtransactions and competitive gaming elements like leaderboards and weekly/monthly competitions. I think this year with the release of the new consoles will be the beginning of a new era for gaming, will this era be positive or negative its up to each of us to decide, but I think we are past of no return and you will either embrace it or give it up all together.

Jacanuk

While that may be true that there have been many games released as single players games this last year how many of big name games actually shipped with multiplayer in it even when it wasn't necessary? Just look at games like Mass Effect 3, Max Payne 3, Assassins Creed 3 and most recently Tomb Raider, while the single player is the focus there is still a multiplayer added on regardless, didn't the devs say they don't plan on releasing any single player DLC at all for TR?

While I am not saying that all games will move toward services I think there will be a large number of developers and publishers who will no doubt start heading that direction in order to squeeze as much money from a fanchise as they can and keep people playing long after it was released. Multiplayer keeps people coming back on a regular basis, the microtransactions keeping the money flowing, you can look at ME3 for proof of that and the developers know it. Even with the economy as bad as it is in the states people have money to burn and the companies know it with games moving toward services they will be able to get twice the money back to make up for the lost box sales.

My friends are telling me the complete opposite, they want the multiplayer, I dont think any of them even play non multiplayer games so I guess its just all in who you know.

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

And who exactly is saying that games should be deeper and more realistic? I mean, the most popular game at the moment is an over the top arcade shooter in COD.

biggest_loser

Modern Military Shooters rule the market today, and they represent today's definition of "deep and realistic". Silent majority plays these, which is why so many have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Spec Ops: The Line is probably the best example how to do a GOOD modern military shooter, ridiculing the "realism" and the genre's itself.

They are referring to the golden days of teamwork-heavy FPS (Counter-Strike) and colorful, extremely skill-based arena shooters.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Modern Military Shooters rule the market today, and they represent today's definition of "deep and realistic". Silent majority plays these, which is why so many have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Spec Ops: The Line is probably the best example how to do a GOOD modern military shooter, ridiculing the "realism" and the genre's itself.

 

They are referring to the golden days of teamwork-heavy FPS (Counter-Strike) and colorful, extremely skill-based arena shooters.

kraken2109

Wow, didn't think I'd spark up an active thread like this. :p

With all the problems/successes in the industry that are discussed here, what are some of your ideas on changing it if you had the power to? What changes would you like to see take place to make the gaming industry easier flowing and not heading toward a crash, as some people speak of here?

Cheers.

It's ass

Wow, didn't think I'd spark up an active thread like this. :p

With all the problems/successes in the industry that are discussed here, what are some of your ideas on changing it if you had the power to? What changes would you like to see take place to make the gaming industry easier flowing and not heading toward a crash, as some people speak of here?

Cheers.

toughtrasher

Aaah well, good question, no simple answer.

I think I would try to minimize the amount of none game making personnel hired as chiefs and chairmen for the sake of profit alone. In fact I would cut ALOT of fat from the industry I think, how cruel it may sound. If a game can not stand on its own without around equal cost in advertising as game ceration and management, then there is something REALLY wrong with said game, OR the general population, take a pick.

And somewhat Ironic here, I would if I could, remove the chance for gaming publishers and devs to have public traded stocks. Why? Let me explain.

No one ever buys stocks without trying to make a profit. So all games HAVE to sell beyond acceptable profit to cover the costs, to keep shareholders happy. If a game falls below expectations (even if it goes well into the black, but underperforms) Then shareholders can jump ship (you have seen this ALOT if you paid attention these last 4 years) meaning that the dev and pub would end up LOSING a lot of money even though the game ended in the black, due to share degredation and asset loss by beforementioned.

The games industry has nearly killed the creative spirit, yeah They were always in it to make money, but that was never the only reason to make games, the pay has always been bad, the work hours just as horrible, but there was an creative spirit there, one that is getting killed by profit margins and bloated beucratic infrastructures.

It is almost embarresing to see games that cost 4 times less then the huge AAA titles, look better, often play better and have far better stories. To me that is a sign of an unhealthy industry and a focus that has been removed of the creation and joy of making the game the devs want to play themselves, and an altered focus of cashflow primarily, focusgroups and fear of making something special.

This part only covers the huge dev studios and Pubs, since as I stated earlier I see little wrong with the newly risen Mid tier game and indie projects. If you look at hoe fast Kickstarter projects and the hunger for those kinds of niche games, tells you something is wrong aswell, right? In alot of ways im grateful of kickstarter, I would rather take risks with games that might fit better with what I WANT to play and risk a few failures, rather then having to accept games that are genres I like only in name, with no alternatives.

It seems to be doing great. Devs are getting really promising games funded on Kickstarter, and indie devs are increasingly making more and more money on great games (FTL, Legend Of GRimrock etc.). And GOG.com is growing. Good times. We are drinking from the plenty cup my friends.

It's currently in a bad shape, in my opinion, because casualisation is in full force at the moment - dumbing down games to attract new players. Good examples are the new Tomb Raider and Hitman: Absolution.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="kraken2109"] Arma? Red Orchestra?kraken2109