Overcooled CPU?

I put one of my radiators outside this morning, and now my e6750 @3776mhz is at 2c, and my 8800gtx is at 26c. Mind you this is not under any load. Can this damage my Cpu and Gpu if I leave it like this for a while and then when the weather gets warm again bring the radiator back inside and continue at normal liquid cooling temperatures? What I mean is will the CPU and GPU get used to running at these temperatures and then fail when I change back?

In real physics, heating a material causes it to expand in size while cooling cause the material to shrink. This is enough to say that is it possible for a processor to be overcooled and cause damage. What can be deemed overcooled, I do not know.

There are other affects to overcooling that can reduce performance. This I know is true.

The point of cooling is not to freeze the computer but keep it at an optimal operating climate

Let me just say this. I leave my cd player in my truck. That cd player on very cold days has failed to work, but not permanently damaged. The cd player needed to be warmed before it could actually work. It is not battery problem as it is always connected to the cigarette lighter.

In real physics, heating a material causes it to expand in size while cooling cause the material to shrink. This is enough to say that is it possible for a processor to be overcooled and cause damage. What can be deemed overcooled, I do not know.

There are other affects to overcooling that can reduce performance. This I know is true.

The point of cooling is not to freeze the computer but keep it at an optimal operating climate

Let me just say this. I leave my cd player in my truck. That cd player on very cold days has failed to work, but not permanently damaged. The cd player needed to be warmed before it could actually work. It is not battery problem as it is always connected to the cigarette lighter.

lightningbugx

Your cpu has no moving parts where the cd player does. Cool away as much as can, if your pump doesnt freeze than your fine. Chips have been cooled with liquid nitrogen to -40C or more.

Your cpu has no moving parts where the cd player does. Cool away as much as can, if your pump doesnt freeze than your fine. Chips have been cooled with liquid nitrogen to -40C or more.

sodoffubugger

Moving parts does not matter with temperature. Try taking a glass bowl from the stove top on high heat and place it on the room temperature counter. There are no moving parts in that glass bowl, yet the temperature shift will cause it to shatter.

The thing with chips, they are not made with only one material but different materials. Not all materials expand at the same rate. And with smaller manufacturing processes and new materials being used, the cooling limits can change.

As long as there is not a major change in temperature in too short of a time period, it should be fine.

Although, just do not run the computer cold enough for condensation to form.

[QUOTE="sodoffubugger"]

Your cpu has no moving parts where the cd player does. Cool away as much as can, if your pump doesnt freeze than your fine. Chips have been cooled with liquid nitrogen to -40C or more.

lightningbugx

Moving parts does not matter with temperature. Try taking a glass bowl from the stove top on high heat and place it on the room temperature counter. There are no moving parts in that glass bowl, yet the temperature shift will cause it to shatter.

The thing with chips, they are not made with only one material but different materials. Not all materials expand at the same rate. And with smaller manufacturing processes and new materials being used, the cooling limits can change.

the key is the resistivitiy of the wires on the chip. as the temperature lowers, the resistivity also goes down.. which basically reduces the RC of the electrical circuits on the chip, allowing for faster signal transistions and hence higher clock speeds. lower temps also effect the transistor switching delay on the chip but i think to a lesser extent than the wires..

leaving the radiator outside i think could become a problem if the coolant actually freezes up or any kind of icing starts to occur which would reduce the flow through the loop.. once the system is up and running, the cpu and gpu heat as will likely ensure no freezing occurs.

The only problem I see is that anything that gets cooler than room temperature can start getting condensation. If it gets to cold you might have to cover everything that is that cold and exposed to the warmer air.

It is usually dryer during winter so it should be less of a concern.

[QUOTE="sodoffubugger"]

Your cpu has no moving parts where the cd player does. Cool away as much as can, if your pump doesnt freeze than your fine. Chips have been cooled with liquid nitrogen to -40C or more.

lightningbugx

Moving parts does not matter with temperature. Try taking a glass bowl from the stove top on high heat and place it on the room temperature counter. There are no moving parts in that glass bowl, yet the temperature shift will cause it to shatter.

The thing with chips, they are not made with only one material but different materials. Not all materials expand at the same rate. And with smaller manufacturing processes and new materials being used, the cooling limits can change.

Google supercooling computers.

[QUOTE="lightningbugx"][QUOTE="sodoffubugger"]

Your cpu has no moving parts where the cd player does. Cool away as much as can, if your pump doesnt freeze than your fine. Chips have been cooled with liquid nitrogen to -40C or more.

sodoffubugger

Moving parts does not matter with temperature. Try taking a glass bowl from the stove top on high heat and place it on the room temperature counter. There are no moving parts in that glass bowl, yet the temperature shift will cause it to shatter.

The thing with chips, they are not made with only one material but different materials. Not all materials expand at the same rate. And with smaller manufacturing processes and new materials being used, the cooling limits can change.

Google supercooling computers.

Did, but the topics were all old. Waiting to see how smaller manufacturing processes and new materials, like hafnium, are affected by cold. I am little worried about the paradox of eletricity existing in a zero energy environment and more worried about the physical structures not breaking due to the differences. How small of a fracture can occur when the electricity enters and heats up the processor indifferently?

I'd think that putting antifreeze in with the thermaltake coolant that I have in now could have some nasty reaction or cause sludge since its thicker then the purpose coolant. Nothing I would try without knowing what would happen before hand.devofreqo

put some salt in the liquid. that'll lower it's freezing point.blazethe1

i wouldn't salt the liquid because you do not know how that will effect things like the pump and radiator. it may lead to corrosion inside the system.

Just don't hit absolute zero and you'll be fine.

Just don't hit absolute zero and you'll be fine.

musclesforcier

actually, in theory, if you got a processor to absolute zero, it could run "infinitely" fast. the paradox is that to hit absolute zero, you have to stop time, or more correctly, reaching absolute zero would in TURN stop time. but this can't be true if time doesn't flow.

random rant, no one has to read this:
i figure, if time didn't flow there would be no energy and at every moment we would technically be at absolute zero, but since we know we aren't, we know it's not perfectly still. time could, in a sense, flow, but like a river, not a hose. with a river, you know where it came from and where it will go, but it's not standing still, just as i view time. then, reaching absolute zero could be possible, but how do you freeze one section of a river while it's running? and as i always say at the end of a rant, there's always the good chance than none of this applies whatsoever

[QUOTE="musclesforcier"]

Just don't hit absolute zero and you'll be fine.

blazethe1

actually, in theory, if you got a processor to absolute zero, it could run "infinitely" fast. the paradox is that to hit absolute zero, you have to stop time, or more correctly, reaching absolute zero would in TURN stop time. but this can't be true if time doesn't flow.

Actually, No. It doesn't stop time. Where did you see this "theory". But it doesn't matter because it is impossible to achieve because of the second law of thermodynamics.

[QUOTE="blazethe1"][QUOTE="musclesforcier"]

Just don't hit absolute zero and you'll be fine.

musclesforcier

actually, in theory, if you got a processor to absolute zero, it could run "infinitely" fast. the paradox is that to hit absolute zero, you have to stop time, or more correctly, reaching absolute zero would in TURN stop time. but this can't be true if time doesn't flow.

Actually, No. It doesn't stop time. Where did you see this "theory". But it doesn't matter because it is impossible to achieve because of the second law of thermodynamics.

well what is absolute zero but the absence of all energy. all matter to stop moving. i guess i was mistaken to say that reaching it would stop time, but stopping time is still the only way within our reach (due to 2nd law of thermodynamics) to keep any matter from moving entirely.

[QUOTE="musclesforcier"][QUOTE="blazethe1"][QUOTE="musclesforcier"]

Just don't hit absolute zero and you'll be fine.

blazethe1

actually, in theory, if you got a processor to absolute zero, it could run "infinitely" fast. the paradox is that to hit absolute zero, you have to stop time, or more correctly, reaching absolute zero would in TURN stop time. but this can't be true if time doesn't flow.

Actually, No. It doesn't stop time. Where did you see this "theory". But it doesn't matter because it is impossible to achieve because of the second law of thermodynamics.

well what is absolute zero but the absence of all energy. all matter to stop moving. i guess i was mistaken to say that reaching it would stop time, but stopping time is still the only way within our reach (due to 2nd law of thermodynamics) to keep any matter from moving entirely.

Where does it say it is the absence of all energy? Your making things up...

Where does it say it is the absence of all energy? Your making things up...

musclesforcier

Absolute Zero is the total absence of energy. Heat is energy, and so is electricity and light. The problem is that you can't run electricity at absolute zero because you are adding energy into an object that has no energy. Thus adding electricity will make the substance at absolute zero no longer be absolute zero.

It is like adding an object to a vaccuum. The vaccuum is no longer empty space.

Although resistances are reduced when temperature decreases, how does this affect the insulator material?

I put one of my radiators outside this morning, and now my e6750 @3776mhz is at 2c, and my 8800gtx is at 26c. Mind you this is not under any load. Can this damage my Cpu and Gpu if I leave it like this for a while and then when the weather gets warm again bring the radiator back inside and continue at normal liquid cooling temperatures? What I mean is will the CPU and GPU get used to running at these temperatures and then fail when I change back?

devofreqo

Supercooling a microchip won't in itself damage your hardware. The main thing you have to worry about is moisture condensation. Cool the components too much and the moisture in the ambient air will condense out on the cooled hardware, promoting shorting and corrosion. I've seen MOBOs insulated with clear silicone to prevent condensation, but it's a tricky mod and it can damage the hardware if done improperly.

To your question about leaving your radiator outside in below freezing weather. Don't. Not unless you've filled it with a 50%/50% mixture of distilled water and automotive antifreeze. If the radiator freezes solid the solder points can separate and the core can crack. Not good. And no. Your components won't get used to running at one particular temperature. As long as you don't fry them with heat, cold (minus condensation) won't hurt your solid state circuits.

It is a wonder why these people worried about condensation just don't make an air tight case and substitute the interal air with an inert gas like helium and totally rely on the water cooling to keep the inside cold. No regular air = no condensation. All you have to do is have the pipes and wiring to exit the case while keeping it enclosed.lightningbugx

If a person hermetically sealed their PC and pumped it full of an inert gas, they would have to cool the entire case, not just the CPU and GPU. Hard drives and memory get hot too. The cheapest way to do this would be to use a mini-fridge as a computer case, install the components, then permanently seal the door and pump in the inert gas. Of course a nice internal temperature/humidity monitor would be a must.:P

[QUOTE="lightningbugx"]It is a wonder why these people worried about condensation just don't make an air tight case and substitute the interal air with an inert gas like helium and totally rely on the water cooling to keep the inside cold. No regular air = no condensation. All you have to do is have the pipes and wiring to exit the case while keeping it enclosed.Sentinel672002

If a person hermetically sealed their PC and pumped it full of an inert gas, they would have to cool the entire case, not just the CPU and GPU. Hard drives and memory get hot too. The cheapest way to do this would be to use a mini-fridge as a computer case, install the components, then permanently seal the door and pump in the inert gas. Of course a nice internal temperature/humidity monitor would be a must.:P

When you are cooling the CPU, Northbridge, RAM, and video card at least to temperatures below freezing, the gas will be kept cool by it too. Also, even if the cold is centered on the CPU, being that cold it should be freezing the entire motherboard.

[QUOTE="Sentinel672002"]

[QUOTE="lightningbugx"]It is a wonder why these people worried about condensation just don't make an air tight case and substitute the interal air with an inert gas like helium and totally rely on the water cooling to keep the inside cold. No regular air = no condensation. All you have to do is have the pipes and wiring to exit the case while keeping it enclosed.lightningbugx

If a person hermetically sealed their PC and pumped it full of an inert gas, they would have to cool the entire case, not just the CPU and GPU. Hard drives and memory get hot too. The cheapest way to do this would be to use a mini-fridge as a computer case, install the components, then permanently seal the door and pump in the inert gas. Of course a nice internal temperature/humidity monitor would be a must.:P

When you are cooling the CPU, Northbridge, RAM, and video card at least to temperatures below freezing, the gas will be kept cool by it too. Also, even if the cold is centered on the CPU, being that cold it should be freezing the entire motherboard.

I thought you meant you wanted to displace the moist, ambient air with an inert (room temperature) gas, while using the below freezing liquid cooling to cool the GPU and CPU. If that were the case, I don't think there would be enough heat transfer between the coolant hoses and waterblocks to cool the entire case. Better to use an insulated enclosure like a mini-fridge in that scenario. On the other hand, if you were talking about cooling the inert gas somehow, then circulating it through the case...which would have to be sealed and insulated to prevent radiant heat absorption...you'd pretty much be constructing your own mini-fridge. A more costly project, I would think.

I thought you meant you wanted to displace the moist, ambient air with an inert (room temperature) gas, while using the below freezing liquid cooling to cool the GPU and CPU. If that were the case, I don't think there would be enough heat transfer between the coolant hoses and waterblocks to cool the entire case. Better to use an insulated enclosure like a mini-fridge in that scenario. On the other hand, if you were talking about cooling the inert gas somehow, then circulating it through the case...which would have to be sealed and insulated to prevent radiant heat absorption...you'd pretty much be constructing your own mini-fridge. A more costly project, I would think.

Sentinel672002

Well, it is to fully replace the air with an inert gas that does not condensate until a very low temperature, like Helium. You could add some sort of cooling block on the top of the case and use physics to create air flow. Cold air would sink to the bottom while the warm air would rise to the cooling block.

I wonder if anyone tried to use the liquid nitrogen directly in the system. It may be a more costly project, but it would allow longer periods of use while the computer is being cooled. But part of the idea was to place the mobo in the sealed box without worrying about condensation, and wires and pipes go through secured holes to the outside so the drives can stay warm while the chipset can freeze.

Although, for every super cooling thread, you will have one person that will think it can harm... me.

[QUOTE="musclesforcier"]

Where does it say it is the absence of all energy? Your making things up...

lightningbugx

Absolute Zero is the total absence of energy. Heat is energy, and so is electricity and light. The problem is that you can't run electricity at absolute zero because you are adding energy into an object that has no energy. Thus adding electricity will make the substance at absolute zero no longer be absolute zero.

It is like adding an object to a vaccuum. The vaccuum is no longer empty space.

Although resistances are reduced when temperature decreases, how does this affect the insulator material?

yeah, after all, what is temperature, but how much energy there is.