Pc devs need to change
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How ironic that may seem. It seems that developers are killing pc gaming. Devs are releasing bad optimized and poorly scalable exclusive to pc games. A trend that happened a lot in the RPG and FPS genre. But now even RTS games seem to have taken the same path. Supreme Commander is such an example, a great game but starts lagging with more than 100 units on screen. What is the point in that?
Devs keep wondering why their game doesn't sell as well as console games? Why the Sims and World of Warcraft is dominating our market? What ever happened to the old pc genres? Not once did i need to look on the back to see if my pc could handle the game, but nowadays it's a real issue.
Honestly, I hope most of these devs just develop games for the consoles. That would learn them to make games according to the hardware that's available for them and not make games for hardware that only few have. They shouldn't force people to upgrade, rather only encourage you.
If you want to find the best games you have to look for more independent developers, mainly the European ones.
Developers are killing pc gaming,I find your stupidity and whininess to be staggering. You would rather all the games look the same so they can meet up with your outdated system? That's the entire problem with consoles, they fall behind in technology so fast. This trend is a good thing because it means constant advancement, constant progression. If you need to look on the back of the box to check if your computer can run a game, then you need a new computer. Even before I upgraded my computer, and it was very very old, it could run NWN2 when it came out on all low settings. Just play on the lower settings, and if that doesn't work, boo hoo. Also, to the idiot who posted right below you, you don't have to buy a new computer for Vista. You can buy the OS itself. If your current computer cannot run freaking Vista then I seriously reccomend you give up on PC gaming unless you're just playing pre-2000 games.
How ironic that may seem. It seems that developers are killing pc gaming. Devs are releasing bad optimized and poorly scalable exclusive to pc games. A trend that happened a lot in the RPG and FPS genre. But now even RTS games seem to have taken the same path. Supreme Commander is such an example, a great game but starts lagging with more than 100 units on screen. What is the point in that?
Devs keep wondering why their game doesn't sell as well as console games? Why the Sims and World of Warcraft is dominating our market? What ever happened to the old pc genres? Not once did i need to look on the back to see if my pc could handle the game, but nowadays it's a real issue.
Honestly, I hope most of these devs just develop games for the consoles. That would learn them to make games according to the hardware that's available for them and not make games for hardware that only few have. They shouldn't force people to upgrade, rather only encourage you.
_Pedro_
[QUOTE="Smithgdwg"]Plus some developers get extra money from hardware manufacturers, and they would love nothing than to have us shell out an extra $500 for their new graphics card.Until you can prove that, you are an overwhelmingly tremendous douche and a liar.
If you want to find the best games you have to look for more independent developers, mainly the European ones.
Corrugath
http://ati.amd.com/uk/companyinfo/press/2003/4692.html
PWNED!!!
Btw, Im sure mods wont be too happy with you calling other forum members douche's....
if you wanna play with cutting edge technology in games you have to upgrade often and you have to tune up your settings to a particular game most of the time, as well. Such is the bane of PC gaming.
you wanna play big worlds, dynamic shadows, volumetric poo-poo, and ballistic trajectories? then you need to have a good machine.
so it's not gonna be like gaming on consoles where every exclusive release is very well optimized. however, there is a reason why technically (and generally) PC has the best visuals etc.
[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]Developers are killing pc gaming,I find your stupidity and whininess to be staggering. You would rather all the games look the same so they can meet up with your outdated system? That's the entire problem with consoles, they fall behind in technology so fast. This trend is a good thing because it means constant advancement, constant progression. If you need to look on the back of the box to check if your computer can run a game, then you need a new computer. Even before I upgraded my computer, and it was very very old, it could run NWN2 when it came out on all low settings. Just play on the lower settings, and if that doesn't work, boo hoo. Also, to the idiot who posted right below you, you don't have to buy a new computer for Vista. You can buy the OS itself. If your current computer cannot run freaking Vista then I seriously reccomend you give up on PC gaming unless you're just playing pre-2000 games.
How ironic that may seem. It seems that developers are killing pc gaming. Devs are releasing bad optimized and poorly scalable exclusive to pc games. A trend that happened a lot in the RPG and FPS genre. But now even RTS games seem to have taken the same path. Supreme Commander is such an example, a great game but starts lagging with more than 100 units on screen. What is the point in that?
Devs keep wondering why their game doesn't sell as well as console games? Why the Sims and World of Warcraft is dominating our market? What ever happened to the old pc genres? Not once did i need to look on the back to see if my pc could handle the game, but nowadays it's a real issue.
Honestly, I hope most of these devs just develop games for the consoles. That would learn them to make games according to the hardware that's available for them and not make games for hardware that only few have. They shouldn't force people to upgrade, rather only encourage you.
Corrugath
you didn't get my post did you? Game devs should encourage, not Force. Look at Half-Life 2 for example. I could play that game on a very low system, yet i upgraded my system to maximize the performance.
Why can't more games be like that? It's the scaling process of games that has decreased lately and it's very annoying. Constant progression happeneds all the time, with or without pc gaming.
Besides, When i talk about pc gaming dieing. I'm not saying that pc gaming is going to be no more, I talk about the diversity dieing. Pc used to have great games coming out for every genre and playable on every pc. Now it seems the group that is willing upgrade whenever a game gets released is big enough for the gaming devs to maitain their profit and the mainstream is just geting left in the dark.
[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]Developers are killing pc gaming,I find your stupidity and whininess to be staggering. You would rather all the games look the same so they can meet up with your outdated system? That's the entire problem with consoles, they fall behind in technology so fast. This trend is a good thing because it means constant advancement, constant progression. If you need to look on the back of the box to check if your computer can run a game, then you need a new computer. Even before I upgraded my computer, and it was very very old, it could run NWN2 when it came out on all low settings. Just play on the lower settings, and if that doesn't work, boo hoo. Also, to the idiot who posted right below you, you don't have to buy a new computer for Vista. You can buy the OS itself. If your current computer cannot run freaking Vista then I seriously reccomend you give up on PC gaming unless you're just playing pre-2000 games.
How ironic that may seem. It seems that developers are killing pc gaming. Devs are releasing bad optimized and poorly scalable exclusive to pc games. A trend that happened a lot in the RPG and FPS genre. But now even RTS games seem to have taken the same path. Supreme Commander is such an example, a great game but starts lagging with more than 100 units on screen. What is the point in that?
Devs keep wondering why their game doesn't sell as well as console games? Why the Sims and World of Warcraft is dominating our market? What ever happened to the old pc genres? Not once did i need to look on the back to see if my pc could handle the game, but nowadays it's a real issue.
Honestly, I hope most of these devs just develop games for the consoles. That would learn them to make games according to the hardware that's available for them and not make games for hardware that only few have. They shouldn't force people to upgrade, rather only encourage you.
Corrugath
Dude, tone it down a bit. Pedro has some valid points. And you have a few too, but to call him stupid and whining? That just makes you look like a jerk.
I agree with Pedro regarding the fact that optimization has been lacking. For example, I was recetently playing Call of Duty: United Offensive, and there was a level called Crossroads. This level is a slideshow. You just berated Pedro because of System Spec. Well my comp has a Intel Core 2 Duo, 8800GTX, and a Gig of DDR 800 Ram. If you look to the middle of this level, slideshow, turn away from the middle of the level, and everything is fine.
Why? Poor optimization. My computer is far more powerful than the system requirements, and yet this level is an atrocious mess.
I also agree with your point about the evolution of PC hardware. It is a good thing, but you don't need to be a prick to other people.
Want to know the truth about PC gaming, and the pitfalls of console gaming? Read it from the game devs themselves (and memorize the part about how THEY HATE coding for consoles too)...
http://crystaltips.typepad.com/wonderland/2005/03/burn_the_house_.html
And insights from the producer of the original Deus Ex, Warren Specter...
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=65769
Sometimes I wonder if pc developers collude with nvidia, ati, etc. to get their cards to sell. It sucks when you've been following a game for over a year and find out that your current PC will not give you the best experience when you actually buy the game. Now, all I do is buy the older games or wait a bit for pc component prices to go down. That's the only time I will be able to experience a PC game the way it was meant to be played.
Why can't developers just follow blizzard or valve?
Its unfair that people should be expected to upgrade a graphics card every year.... and in my mind doesn't really make sense for the customers or the developers.
Sure, if you really have to run your games at super high resolutions with all the textures set to max, thats fine with me. But your gonna have to pay money for that. But why can't devs make there games run on a better range of systems [with decent frame rates] even if the graphics don't look as good.
[QUOTE="Corrugath"][QUOTE="Smithgdwg"]Plus some developers get extra money from hardware manufacturers, and they would love nothing than to have us shell out an extra $500 for their new graphics card.Until you can prove that, you are an overwhelmingly tremendous douche and a liar.
If you want to find the best games you have to look for more independent developers, mainly the European ones.
Smithgdwg
http://ati.amd.com/uk/companyinfo/press/2003/4692.html
PWNED!!!
Btw, Im sure mods wont be too happy with you calling other forum members douche's....
No, not really "PWNED!!!". Yes game devs get extra money from hardware companies, but you are asserting they are doing this to force us to upgrade to newer hardware. This simply is not the truth. The hardware companies use this more like advertising. To force unreasonable performance in order to sell more expensive cards is neither in the interest of game developers or video card manufactures. This only would isolate and turn away many consumers, effetively hurting the devs and hardware people more then helping.
PC gaming has always been this way. If you are a PC gamer, upgrading is part of the gig.
Anyways, to the topic, I hate to admit it but i somewhat agree with this thread. The last 3 games I have purchased ALL had huge bugs, terrible performance, and crashes. Totally unacceptable. Although alot of what I have read here seems to be people unwilling to understand they cannot expect to play the newest games on their old POS computer. I have no idea what _Pedro_'s specs are, but it sounds to me like he doesn't have a duel core CPU, which is one of the major bottle neck's for this game.
"Now it seems the group that is willing upgrade whenever a game gets released is big enough for the gaming devs to maitain their profit and the mainstream is just geting left in the dark. "
See...thats exactly what I am talking about. Any serious gamer knows this statement is a total exaggeration. C'mon...upgrade everytime a game gets released? lol. I have had my current system for 3 years and it still plays most games on high. Oh ya, it only cost me $1200. Ya, now I sorta need to upgrade, becuase there has been a huge technology push. DX10 is comming, games needing duel cores, and other improvements. That's just the nature of pc gaming.
Well my specs are 3.2Ghz P4 Northwood/ 1.5Ghz PC3200 memory/ ATI Radeon 9800pro 128MB/256bit with 2x80GB WD800JB, it will run the current games like F.E.A.R at medium-high settings (average 70fps). I have zero interest in upgrading until native quads are in the $500 range (skipping dualies all together, since this will be a 64bit rig), and DX10 v/cs can remain out of my rig until they're below $250 and don't require 20amps to use.
DX10 is like Intel Extreme procs until mid to late 2008, when DX10 cards will finally drop in price and hopefully power consumption is better addressed.
C'mon...upgrade everytime a game gets released? lol. I have had my current system for 3 years and it still plays most games on high. Oh ya, it only cost me $1200. Ya, now I sorta need to upgrade, becuase there has been a huge technology push. DX10 is comming, games needing duel cores, and other improvements. That's just the nature of pc gaming.dnuggs40Question: how old are you? Because sinking $1200 is a lot of money for those who have to work to pay for it. Credit cards are a poor way to buy hardware anyway, since the overall cost will be more than $1200 after the finance charges. For us who have work, families and going to college we simply can't blow $1200 on hardware that's outdated in a year. Nope, simply just can't do it.
Its a trend that is not going to end. All us PC gamers will HAVE to buy new computers in about a year thanks to Vista.godofratz
Ya. Its not that Supreme Commander is a poorly optimised game, its just that PC gaming is at a technological turning point. While these rarely happen, and a gamer can be content with his 1200 dollar self-built rig for a few years, there are times where a massive, wide-spread upgrade is needed. I truly think such a time is occuring right now.
However, with Dual-cores being so affordable (under 200 dollars) and motherboard options plentiful, and the Dx10 cards being reduced in price to about 180 dollars, and upgrade will not be as expensive as everyone fears it will be.
As for bad ports, ya, devs really need to work on that.
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]C'mon...upgrade everytime a game gets released? lol. I have had my current system for 3 years and it still plays most games on high. Oh ya, it only cost me $1200. Ya, now I sorta need to upgrade, becuase there has been a huge technology push. DX10 is comming, games needing duel cores, and other improvements. That's just the nature of pc gaming.Deus_Ex_FanQuestion: how old are you? Because sinking $1200 is a lot of money for those who have to work to pay for it. Credit cards are a poor way to buy hardware anyway, since the overall cost will be more than $1200 after the finance charges. For us who have work, families and going to college we simply can't blow $1200 on hardware that's outdated in a year. Nope, simply just can't do it. I am 25, work, go to school, and have a wife and 2 kids. If you can't afford it, that's your problem, not mine. Please don't give me that "Because sinking $1200 is a lot of money for those who have to work to pay for it." baloney. I work just like you buddy. The way you said that is pretty damn insulting. What are you suggesting? I am some kid with a silver spoon in my mouth?
I'm saying is that your reasoning to shell out $1200 dollars like it was $12 is faulty, as not everyone can afford throwing away $1200 on hardware that'll be old in a year. Got a problem with that? If so, as your said, it's your problem not mine. :) I like my money in my pocket, not rolling others with it.
Well, I still got money in my pocket too. If $1200 is such a stretch, I suggest quiting pc gaming all together and focusing on feeding your family. The time you are wasting here could be used more productively. And ya, I was insulted by your comment. You made it sound like you are the only one working around here, and I was just some kind rich guy who can throw around money like it was nothing. That's not the case. I imagine $1200 every 3 or 4 years is not a big expense at all. And my guess for the majority of pc gamers it is not a big deal. to put this into perspective, pc gaming is a relatively cheap hobby. How much do you think those car fanatics spend tunning up their cars? Or how much do you think a golfer spend on equipment, club dues, and other expensises? Waaaay more the $1200 every 3-4 year you can bet on that. Heck, even consoles are expensive as hell now. And if we really look at the cost of pc gaming vs the cost 10 years ago, it's BY A WIDE MARGIAN much cheaper then 10 years ago. I remeber when a top notch pc ran for NO LESS THAN 3-4 thousand dollars. These days you can throw a dream system together for around $1500.I'm saying is that your reasoning to shell out $1200 dollars like it was $12 is faulty, as not everyone can afford throwing away $1200 on hardware that'll be old in a year. Got a problem with that? If so, as your said, it's your problem not mine. :) I like my money in my pocket, not rolling others with it.
Deus_Ex_Fan
Interesting thread... I don't give the developers themselves too much grief as they are hitting a moving target. Supreme Commander is in fact a good example of a problem though the OP is ellluding to. I have the top of the line XPS M1710 from Dell, only a month or so old. It has 2GB of ram and the 512MB Video card, duel core, yadayadayada. Yet as soon as the game gets fairly far in with a hundred or so units the performance drops through the floor. I LOVE the game and will buy it for sure but I can't for the life of me figure out how people with machines even a year or two old are going to run it. It's a game that is just a bit too performance heavy for the mass population.
PC gaming is basically fragmented. You have a situation in which many people do have machines that are just a P4 without a duel core and perhaps with 512MB of memory and a 128MB video card. Yes they will upgrade but what percent of the market today has duel core, 2GB of memory and 512MB top of the line video cards?Â
In the console market publishers are faced with similar decsions. Do you write for the PS2 which has many tens of millions installed base or for the Xbox360 which has just about 10 million? Or do you gamble on the PS3 which perhaps will have 10 million by the end of the year? It's a complex equation because hard core gamers also buy more games and will be willing to shell out more for newer hardware to run them. There is also less competition among the next gens for those top spots as well.Â
What is saving the PC game market is Direct X. It's giving developers the ability to write PC games that can run on a variety of video cards and resolutions without them having to code each card's API from scratch. It's not perfect but I think PC gaming is doing quite well now and will continue to thrive. Unfortunately games like Supreme Commander are not going to sell to the masses because the masses I don't believe have the CPU (not GPU in this specific case) specs to run it respectably. In fact even in their trailer videos and sample game play you can see huge slow downs and you know they are likely using top of the line equipment.Â
Financing a PC is definately something to think about. I am a college student, and while I am fortunate enough that my parents started saving money to pay for tuition when I was little, I still have to pay rent, bills, and groceries. I also work as a cook, which pays ok but not well (12 dollars an hour). When I factor in the cost of tuition and my job, I say that I could afford my lifestyle off a 30k salary. Having four other roommates definately helps out!
I was able to buy a computer, but I really have to watch my budget for the next few months as my reserves slowly fill back up. For a time, I had 50 dollars in my account and that was very scary (and I hate asking my family for money). The Golden Rule, in my opinion, is building for longevity. For example, I spent an extra 100 dollars for a 680i chipset motherboard, instead of getting a 590 chipset or whaetevr they are. Do I need it now? No, but I certainly will, and it wont be outdated for a good five years I imagine.
So whatever your opinion is about whether or not its reasonable to buy/build a new PC, the fact is that if you take care of your priorities and have enough money leftover, its yours to spend. Oh, and dont use credit cards! ONLY SPEND MONEY YOU HAVE!
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