Peter Molyneux being sad about the pc

http://kotaku.com/358493/pc-gaming-makes-peter-molyneux-sad-panda-face

Apparently being negative is very ``in`` these days

This is a disgrace - Our platform is made up of more than two franchises. There are so many great games:

Half-Life 2: One of the highest selling PC games ever.

Portal

Team Fortress 2

COD4

Bioshock

Witcher.

C&C

Max Payne

Thief

Mafia.

Many more to name. What is going on here? Why are these developers turning on our platform?

oh god damn it, i can't take this anymorecrozon

Its ridiculous - what does he expect to accomplish from saying these things?

I guess we won't be seeing Black and White 3 (at least not for PC).

I always thought Black and White was a really overrated game, most notably because it was hyped up primarily by that man Peter Molyneux.

can we please have someone interview the guys from crytek to get their opinion.

we know they really like the PC, and hence why they made crysis for the PC, so it would be interesting to see what they have to say.

Will u rather realease a game on a console where 2 mil copies r sold or will u sell it on pc where 1 mil copies r sold and 1 mil copies r illegally downloaded. U know hes right.rs0101

He is saying that we are platform is surviving on two franchises: The Sims and WoW.

That simply isn't true. As I have pointed out there are so many awesome titles that have sold really, really well for PC.

Look at The Witcher: A little known RPG made by a Polish company. It has sold over 1 million copies and has been declared the "feel good story of 2007" right here on Gamespot!

[QUOTE="rs0101"]Will u rather realease a game on a console where 2 mil copies r sold or will u sell it on pc where 1 mil copies r sold and 1 mil copies r illegally downloaded. U know hes right.biggest_loser

He is saying that we are platform is surviving on two franchises: The Sims and WoW.

That simply isn't true. As I have pointed out there are so many awesome titles that have sold really, really well for PC.

Look at The Witcher: A little known RPG made by a Polish company. It has sold over 1 million copies and has been declared the "feel good story of 2007" right here on Gamespot!

If the witcher came out on consoles before it came out on pc it would have sold prob twice asmuch. Go to a torrent site and check how many people r downloading witcher as we speak. And as for the witcher...feel good? After playing that i feel like slicing my head off...god it was awful game.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="rs0101"]Will u rather realease a game on a console where 2 mil copies r sold or will u sell it on pc where 1 mil copies r sold and 1 mil copies r illegally downloaded. U know hes right.rs0101

He is saying that we are platform is surviving on two franchises: The Sims and WoW.

That simply isn't true. As I have pointed out there are so many awesome titles that have sold really, really well for PC.

Look at The Witcher: A little known RPG made by a Polish company. It has sold over 1 million copies and has been declared the "feel good story of 2007" right here on Gamespot!

If the witcher came out on consoles before it came out on pc it would have sold prob twice asmuch. Go to a torrent site and check how many people r downloading witcher as we speak. And as for the witcher...feel good? After playing that i feel like slicing my head off...god it was awful game.

You can't be sure of that. Just because a game comes out on Console doesn't mean it is automatically going to sell 2 million copies. The PC is obviously a very different platform in regards to games compared to consoles.

It is a classic RPG, in a style similar to Diablo. There is no telling how console gamers would have reacted to it. I, like many, thought it was a great game.

The point is that even a little known game like The Witcher sold very well on PC - people are buying more than just Wow and The Sims. Stalker is another good example! That has sold a million copies as well! Another feel good, success story for 2007!

Piracy is a valid problem sure, but is that what Molyneux is really saying here? He is saying that our Platform is being kept a float by two franchises: The Sims and WoW.

I am saying that that isn't true because despite piracy trouble, despite fierce competition from consoles, we are still producing immensly popular games that are selling so well and that we can be proud of like The Orange Box, The Witcher, Bioshock, COD4, Stalker and many others to come.

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

artur79

Yea its sad that people just put down the opinion of a professional bcuz they think they know it all and know everything thats going on in the pc gaming market

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

artur79

What exactly are you asking is true?

It does not take an market analyst or someone with several years of development experience to tell you that there really are a lot of great games on the PC that people are willing to buying.

What PM said about the PC being made up of Wow and the Sims was a really cynical comment.

[QUOTE="artur79"]

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

biggest_loser

What exactly are you asking is true?

It does not take an market analyst or someone with several years of development experience to tell you that there really are a lot of great games on the PC that people are willing to buying.

What PM said about the PC being made up of Wow and the Sims was a really cynical comment.

I think he said that bcuz WOW and the sims sell way more than all the other games u mentioned.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="artur79"]

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

rs0101

What exactly are you asking is true?

It does not take an market analyst or someone with several years of development experience to tell you that there really are a lot of great games on the PC that people are willing to buying.

What PM said about the PC being made up of Wow and the Sims was a really cynical comment.

I think he said that bcuz WOW and the sims sell way more than all the other games u mentioned.

It is obvious that they do: but the point is that they are not the only PC Games keeping the platform alive.

[QUOTE="rs0101"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="artur79"]

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

biggest_loser

What exactly are you asking is true?

It does not take an market analyst or someone with several years of development experience to tell you that there really are a lot of great games on the PC that people are willing to buying.

What PM said about the PC being made up of Wow and the Sims was a really cynical comment.

I think he said that bcuz WOW and the sims sell way more than all the other games u mentioned.

It is obvious that they do: but the point is that they are not the only PC Games keeping the platform alive.

THats the way PC gaming is gona lean in a few years. Developers r sick of piracy and gona start making MMO's where u have to pay a monthly fee. I reckon thats the only way developers r gona each a decent profit.

B_L. Sure there are games that sell on the PC, but I get the impression that releasing a semi-high profiled title is less risky on consoles, because they sell enough to justify the costs. Some devs are scared to release a PC only title nowadays because they think that it won't pay the bills. Like you said, Stalker and The Witcher are sunshine stories, they are not the norm. That and the fact that consoles = more money when it comes to certain gametypes.

I just wonder where this attitude comes from. I've always regarded Peter M as one of those cooky artistic guys who think more about the game than economics. It seems he is convinced that if they release Fable 2 exclusively on the PC they won't sell half the amount of copies they'll sell on one console. Why do devs think that? To think that they are dumb or "console-fanboys"/sell-outs/PC-deserters is just naive. They must have analyzed the situation, I'm pretty sure those companies have professionals doing their jobs to see where the profits lie and their conclusion is bad news for PC-gamers.

I don't think I'm asking what's true, I'm trying to figure out what to think about the whole thing. Just thinking out "loud", you know.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="rs0101"]Will u rather realease a game on a console where 2 mil copies r sold or will u sell it on pc where 1 mil copies r sold and 1 mil copies r illegally downloaded. U know hes right.rs0101

He is saying that we are platform is surviving on two franchises: The Sims and WoW.

That simply isn't true. As I have pointed out there are so many awesome titles that have sold really, really well for PC.

Look at The Witcher: A little known RPG made by a Polish company. It has sold over 1 million copies and has been declared the "feel good story of 2007" right here on Gamespot!

If the witcher came out on consoles before it came out on pc it would have sold prob twice asmuch. Go to a torrent site and check how many people r downloading witcher as we speak. And as for the witcher...feel good? After playing that i feel like slicing my head off...god it was awful game.

that's why orange box sold on pc sold more than on 360 and bioshock pc outsold 360 even in retail in europe?

Did he just say the exact same thing as Cliffy B :?

...yes, yes he did - he even mentioned The Sims and WoW.

I'm going to rant on about The Sim's here.

I'm just going to guess that they both didn't realise that The Sim's unlocked a section of a market that really PC gaming was ignoring for quite some time, and hence with this untapped section of the market of course there's going to be big sales. There are a tonne of people that own PC's which are capable of playing The Sim's, yet they don't show any interest in FPS's, RTS (just for example) and yet they pick up the Sim's and suddenly "hey, I really enjoy this game!".

It's like my sister, she loves the Sim's, yet doesn't show any interest in any other PC game.

Did he just say the exact same thing as Cliffy B :?

...yes, yes he did - he even mentioned The Sims and WoW.

I'm going to rant on about The Sim's here.

I'm just going to guess that they both didn't realise that The Sim's unlocked a section of a market that really PC gaming was ignoring for quite some time, and hence with this untapped section of the market of course there's going to be big sales. There are a tonne of people that own PC's which are capable of playing The Sim's, yet they don't show any interest in FPS's, RTS (just for example) and yet they pick up the Sim's and suddenly "hey, I really enjoy this game!".

It's like my sister, she loves the Sim's, yet doesn't show any interest in any other PC game.

G013M

Yes! You've nailed it.

Anyone can play the Sims. Its isn't violent, there's no steep learning curve and the requirements are minimal. Thats why it is selling so well. Its appeal to a broad demographic.

I'm pretty sure Kotaku has misquoted Peter there. I'm pretty sure that when they said he said:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying software for it.",

what they really meant was:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying the games I make because I promise the world and then deliver cosistently mediocre and often unfinished games where the actual game is missing and there's just some empty shell masquerading as a game that, while often interesting, is ultimately not worth playing."

Come on. The only people complaining about PC gaming - id, Epic, Peter Molyneux - they're the guys going out. They're the guys who can't compete with modern gaming because they're still stuck in the nineties.

Do you see Valve complaining? Gabe Newell has nothing but good to say for the PC gaming industry. Do you see Crytek complaining? Or Relic? CD Projekt? Ironclad? We've had two or three games pass the one million unit sales mark in the last few months - and neither one of them was Sims or WoW.

These guys are just upset because they suck, and they're doing whatever they can to protect their oh so precious egos.

I'm pretty sure Kotaku has misquoted Peter there. I'm pretty sure that when they said he said:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying software for it.",

what they really meant was:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying the games I make because I promise the world and then deliver cosistently mediocre and often unfinished games where the actual game is missing and there's just some empty shell masquerading as a game that, while often interesting, is ultimately not worth playing."

Come on. The only people complaining about PC gaming - id, Epic, Peter Molyneux - they're the guys going out. They're the guys who can't compete with modern gaming because they're still stuck in the nineties.

Do you see Valve complaining? Gabe Newell has nothing but good to say for the PC gaming industry. Do you see Crytek complaining? Or Relic? CD Projekt? Ironclad? We've had two or three games pass the one million unit sales in the last few months - and neither one of them was Sims or WoW.

These guys are just upset because they suck, and they're doing whatever they can to protect their oh so precious egos.

mfsa

So damn true. Good work Mfsa.

There is so much promise with this platform, so many sophisticated and amazing games coming out that we will not be hindered by piracy or the system wars. We will embrace all of the great titles that are coming out year after year. With the developers that Mfsa has highlighted like Valve and Relic and many others like Infinitey Ward and 2K Games, PC Gaming will only get better.

Molyneux is just being a **** about PC gaming because he's not making anything that sells. He is getting crushed by Will Wright and The Sims, so he complains about PC being one-dimensional. Really, he's just bitter because people are more interested in Spore than whatever pathetic excuse for a revolutionary game he's coming out with next. He's probably also making excuses for why he jumped ship to consoles with Fable. There are still a lot of good games for the PC that sell fairly well, although I do agree that only The Sims and WoW can claim to compete with Madden on consoles. ...then again, there really isn't anything on consoles that can claim to compete with Madden, either.Srinivassa

Ehem.... By Madden you mean Halo 3, right?

You people really need to work on your critical thinking skills and analyitical abilities. This idea the PC gaming is in dire straights is a meme put out by the big publishing houses,along with telecom giants, and the music, TV and movie industry. What they're trying to do is plant the idea in enough people's minds that Intellectual Property rights (ie, copyrights) are being contravened (they like to use the much more perjorative term "piracy" to describe it) and something needs to be done about it.

Game and media companies, in conjunction with telecom and ISP giants, are flinging tonnes of money at lobbyists and politicians in the US in an attempt to give private corporations control over internet content.

The games and media companies want private control over internet traffic as they want the ability to scan all data streams and cut any transmissions of what they deem to be copyright infringement. Read about it here:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getting-ready-to-filter/

The telecoms and ISP companies want to privatize the net so they can charge for "premium" bandwidth speeds and to put brakes on traffic that doesn't cough up. Basically, if a website doesn't pay through the nose, they'll ensure than data transfer speeds will be slowed down to a snail's pace. This'll have the effect of putting control of most content into the hands of a few giant corporations, much like TV and newspapers are now.

Read about it here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/4/13/the_end_of_the_internet_net

The Bush administration is all for it. It'll increase the profits of their contributors, the big media conglomerates. It'll also ensure that the free flow of info will be severely curtailed, which makes it easier for them to make sure "news" is presented in a way that's favourable to their interests. Much like the mainstream US news media is now.

The whole warrantless wiretapping fiasco is, at least in part, due to the fact that they're already setting up the infrastructure to allow the telecoms to surveil your internet traffic to scan for possible "IP theft".

Watch Olbermann's take on it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4lsOLScCgc

This whining by developers is just a cynical attempt to garner support amounst the sheep out there so they'll go along when the government enacts laws to allow ISPs to do the aforementioned.

Simple. The really, really big game publishing corporations are teaming up with movie and music producers and telecoms companies to push the US congress to give them control over internet traffic. They're doing this, at least in part, because they want the ability to scan internet traffic to see if people are downloading, uploading, or trading pirated versions of songs, movies, TV shows, games, books, etc. IF they believe that's happening, they want the ability under law to simply cut the transmission of data.

They know that were they to simply say to the populace "Hey! We want the ability to spy on all your internet traffic to see if we think you're ripping us off" will go over like a lead balloon.

What they do then is get a bunch of industry people to go out and spread sob stories in an attempt to gain a sympathetic audience amongst enough of the voting populace that they'll be able to push their agenda through congress and get a law made.

Think Iraq. They wanted to go in for the oil, but they knew people wouldn't accept that, so they spun a bunch of lies about Saddam Hussein aiding Al Qaeda (he didn't. He hated them) and making Weapons of Mass Destruction (he wasnt. Bush and co. actually later admitted the fact) and enouch of the people bought the lie.

I'm pretty sure Kotaku has misquoted Peter there. I'm pretty sure that when they said he said:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying software for it.",

what they really meant was:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying the games I make because I promise the world and then deliver cosistently mediocre and often unfinished games where the actual game is missing and there's just some empty shell masquerading as a game that, while often interesting, is ultimately not worth playing."

Come on. The only people complaining about PC gaming - id, Epic, Peter Molyneux - they're the guys going out. They're the guys who can't compete with modern gaming because they're still stuck in the nineties.

Do you see Valve complaining? Gabe Newell has nothing but good to say for the PC gaming industry. Do you see Crytek complaining? Or Relic? CD Projekt? Ironclad? We've had two or three games pass the one million unit sales mark in the last few months - and neither one of them was Sims or WoW.

These guys are just upset because they suck, and they're doing whatever they can to protect their oh so precious egos.

mfsa

GDC is the right place to finally sit down and take a long discussion on this subject imo. Dev to dev. But they don't for some reason, either that or they don't want to have an argument in public. We see what happens when devs open their mouths. Forums explode, PC-gamers are good at flaming...

One thing I wanted to comment on in your post is that just because people are not complaining, does not mean the problem does not exist. I refuse to believe that this whole thing is hurt feelings and/or propaganda to justify devs "abandoning PC-gaming" because they're out of touch with their customers. It's probably true to some extent, the question here is to what extent.

And I like Fable. It's fun. No revolution, but then again, not every game has to be something out of this world to be enjoyable.

One thing I would like to know is if you take Sims-, Wow- and Call of Duty 4-incomes and sum those up, how much is that out of the billion $ PC-gaming brought in last year in the US? I know it's not representative to the rest of the world, I'm just curious.

Could you simplify that a little bit? Im just a bit confused about what you are saying ?biggest_loser

he is saying put on your tinfoil hats people coz the gubberment and corporations have got it in for you!!! :roll:

I agree with msfa (whatever the hell that means) Molyneaux is talking out his ass because he hasn't made anything decent since god knows when??

I don't blame him for developing for consoles ... console players are usually a lot less discerning with their choices of games, spend a million bucks on marketing a crap game on consoles and voila instant success! However PC gamers are a little more sophisticated than that and won't just by rubbish because a few marketing drones say it is fantabulous.

Maybe on some level he is right that it is not worth making PC exclusive games anymore (unless you want to push the envelope) but you sure aren't doing yourself justice as dev by doing console exclusive games. Missing out on potentially millions of dollars worth of sales from the PC market, because you are worried about some piracy is a stupid decision. If you are developing a game you might as well do as many platforms as possible to strengthen market penetration. COD4 and Bioshock have made it plain that is the best wy forward.

IMHO people who pirate more than likely wouldn't buy more than 10 percent of the games they download anyway.

He's just not happy because he has released games in the past which have been VERY buggy and so the community showed what they felt.. if he wants to blame him releasing games before they should have then its up to him. Most other developers aren't like that.

"Everyone has a pc and no one buys software for it".

And thats just proven by how dead the PC gaming community is.. i mean look here at GS.. our PC game forums.. its empty.And thats a BIG site.. imagine the rest :roll:

Just a few games with a huge following that proves how disillusioned he is:

C&C Series

Rainbow Six series

Delta Force series

Elder Scrolls series

COD series

MOH series

NFS series

Total War series

Close Combat series

And the list goes on and on and on and on.. And they are series.. not individual games like World in Conflict, COH, Supreme Commander, Crysis.. not to mention the fantastic upcoming games.. sigh, he really has no idea.

Explain to me why I should listen to any comments made by a man who claimed his previous release would be the "Greatest RPG of All time", only for it to end up being an overhyped and underperforming short game that even Gamespot labeled as the Biggest Disappoint for the year of it's release.

Also, when is the last time this guy actually developed a game for PC?

I find it funny that the guys whose game had an apathetic reception on the PC platform (like Cliffy B) or who haven't developed anything significant for the platform in years (like Molyneux) have been whining about how PC gaming is in "disarray" or "tragic".

Meanwhile, the developers whose games have garnered high priase from both reviews and gamers, developers like Valve, Crytek, Stardock, Maxis, and CD Projekt, have been saying that the PC platform allows them to do great things they can't do anywhere else and are happy with the success they've had on the platform.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="rs0101"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="artur79"]

I just don't think I understand devs anymore. Yes, console games sell more than PC-games in general, we get it. But is it as bad as they say?

These people (Cliff B and PM) are insiders in the industry we like to think we know a lot about. Are they really just talking out of their asses or is this actually kinda true? I know the opinions on this forum and I do agree, but then again... none of us really know the whole truth and last time I checked none of us are market analysts or have deep connections in the gaming industry. I mean, these people are not dumb, right? There must be something to what they're saying. I would like to hear from Valve, Crytek and other devs though. It's an interesting debate the insiders of the industry should dive into instead of shutting their mouths in fear of offending their customers (like we've seen several times this past week).

I know what kind of answers I'll get, but then again, I ask myself, who's opinion should I trust: a game dev with several years of experience in the industry or Joe the random forumgoer who thinks he knows better...?

rs0101

What exactly are you asking is true?

It does not take an market analyst or someone with several years of development experience to tell you that there really are a lot of great games on the PC that people are willing to buying.

What PM said about the PC being made up of Wow and the Sims was a really cynical comment.

I think he said that bcuz WOW and the sims sell way more than all the other games u mentioned.

It is obvious that they do: but the point is that they are not the only PC Games keeping the platform alive.

THats the way PC gaming is gona lean in a few years. Developers r sick of piracy and gona start making MMO's where u have to pay a monthly fee. I reckon thats the only way developers r gona each a decent profit.

News Flash MMO are being pirated. I think WOW is the biggest pirated game out there. You can sign up to free servers easily. And the other MMOs are pirated. But we dont hear Blizz complaining

Molyneux: "I don't understand why my PC games won't sell these days. It couldn't possibly be because they suck."Alaris83

[QUOTE="mfsa"]

I'm pretty sure Kotaku has misquoted Peter there. I'm pretty sure that when they said he said:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying software for it.",

what they really meant was:

"I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying the games I make because I promise the world and then deliver cosistently mediocre and often unfinished games where the actual game is missing and there's just some empty shell masquerading as a game that, while often interesting, is ultimately not worth playing."

Come on. The only people complaining about PC gaming - id, Epic, Peter Molyneux - they're the guys going out. They're the guys who can't compete with modern gaming because they're still stuck in the nineties.

Do you see Valve complaining? Gabe Newell has nothing but good to say for the PC gaming industry. Do you see Crytek complaining? Or Relic? CD Projekt? Ironclad? We've had two or three games pass the one million unit sales mark in the last few months - and neither one of them was Sims or WoW.

These guys are just upset because they suck, and they're doing whatever they can to protect their oh so precious egos.

artur79

One thing I wanted to comment on in your post is that just because people are not complaining, does not mean the problem does not exist. I refuse to believe that this whole thing is hurt feelings and/or propaganda to justify devs "abandoning PC-gaming" because they're out of touch with their customers. It's probably true to some extent, the question here is to what extent.

And I like Fable. It's fun. No revolution, but then again, not every game has to be something out of this world to be enjoyable.

One thing I would like to know is if you take Sims-, Wow- and Call of Duty 4-incomes and sum those up, how much is that out of the billion $ PC-gaming brought in last year in the US? I know it's not representative to the rest of the world, I'm just curious.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that it's all sunshine and lollipops here in camp PC, we do have some difficult times ahead as megapublishers focus more and more on consoles, and as our best and brightest are turning multiplat (which is arguably the first step towards console exclusivity - as some developers have shown) buuuut these devs who are publicly whining about the state of PC gaming, they make it seem like they're living from hand to mouth, barely able to make ends meet. But the reality is anything but. Good developers making good games are seeing good sales.

Molyneux hasn't made a good game since Black and White if you ask me, and he hasn't made a great game since Theme Park. I don't see why he thinks he has any right to complain when he's a C-list producer. If Will Wright or Sid Meier (to name perhaps his closest peers) complaied, that would be something I'd listen to. But they aren't - they're both too busy making great games that are selling extremely well.

As for the people who aren't complaining - I think actions speak louder than words. If PC gaming was really in such dire straits, why keep on putting out the games? The PC gaming lineup for 2008 is looking rock solid - like one of the finest, actually, after an exceptionally good year in 2007.

On your last point, I don't know. WoW and Sims are big money, I know. They certainly weren't wrong to cite either game as being major sellers, but they both quite strongly imply that that's all there is.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]Could you simplify that a little bit? Im just a bit confused about what you are saying ?N3xus9

he is saying put on your tinfoil hats people coz the gubberment and corporations have got it in for you!!! :roll:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/09/035215

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/03/0440259

Still, my previous point about people that are actually in the thick of it complaining kinda bothers me. Maybe the problem is that all the whining (I've read interviews with several industry people that say something has to be done and I agree with them) overshadows everything else. For once I'd like to read something positive about PC-gaming, I guess. Not written in a post on a forum by a PC-gamer, but devs going public and saying what they really think...

artur79

I don't think the problem is entirely the lack of positive news from PC developers. A large portion of it is the lack of exposure by the game media.

As soon as anyone in the games industry whispers a peep of bad news about PC gaming, sites like kotaku etc are quick to jump on it. On the other hand, when a respected developer actually sheds a different light on big issues like piracy in pc games then you only hear about it on forums like these. Give that blod a read if you havent already. Some real interesting posting by the stardock guys.

Yeah, i'd love for someone from Valve or Blizzard or Digital Illusions to come out and tell people like CliffyB to STFU, but I doubt it'll happen. Hopefully though, this new Pc gaming alliance will give PC gaming the unified voice it never had.

TeamR, thanks, great read. People like that deserve every penny they earn. I love these two things he said:

"The bottom line on copy protection is that if you create a greater incentive for someone to buy your game than to steal it, those who might possibly buy your game will make the choice to buy it."

"And I think most gamers will agree that a system that rewards people for buying your product is preferable to one that treats them like potential criminals."

Who would have known that listening to your customers and supporting your game long after it's out sells copies? Lol.

I do love stardock's take on copy protection, basically none (or virtually none) is better, but we do have to remember that they were considering conjuring satan himself, erm i mean starforce, and using it as copy protection for gal civ 2. Glad they didn't or else i wouldn't buy it.

But anyway back on topic. Only a madman (i.e., PM) would think that customers should reward mediocrity rather than originality and quality. If fable anything to go by, i understand why he's angry, his games are terribly overrated and shallow.

You people really need to work on your critical thinking skills and analyitical abilities. This idea the PC gaming is in dire straights is a meme put out by the big publishing houses,along with telecom giants, and the music, TV and movie industry. What they're trying to do is plant the idea in enough people's minds that Intellectual Property rights (ie, copyrights) are being contravened (they like to use the much more perjorative term "piracy" to describe it) and something needs to be done about it.

Game and media companies, in conjunction with telecom and ISP giants, are flinging tonnes of money at lobbyists and politicians in the US in an attempt to give private corporations control over internet content.

The games and media companies want private control over internet traffic as they want the ability to scan all data streams and cut any transmissions of what they deem to be copyright infringement. Read about it here:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getting-ready-to-filter/

The telecoms and ISP companies want to privatize the net so they can charge for "premium" bandwidth speeds and to put brakes on traffic that doesn't cough up. Basically, if a website doesn't pay through the nose, they'll ensure than data transfer speeds will be slowed down to a snail's pace. This'll have the effect of putting control of most content into the hands of a few giant corporations, much like TV and newspapers are now.

Read about it here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/4/13/the_end_of_the_internet_net

The Bush administration is all for it. It'll increase the profits of their contributors, the big media conglomerates. It'll also ensure that the free flow of info will be severely curtailed, which makes it easier for them to make sure "news" is presented in a way that's favourable to their interests. Much like the mainstream US news media is now.

The whole warrantless wiretapping fiasco is, at least in part, due to the fact that they're already setting up the infrastructure to allow the telecoms to surveil your internet traffic to scan for possible "IP theft".

Watch Olbermann's take on it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4lsOLScCgc

This whining by developers is just a cynical attempt to garner support amounst the sheep out there so they'll go along when the government enacts laws to allow ISPs to do the aforementioned.

bogaty

Net neutrality has no real bearing on intellectual property rights. Copyright ensures that people who make things that others like get paid for it so they can keep making things that others like. A non-neutral net is a horrible idea and I think members of game development houses would be amongst the first to espouse this opinion. With the popularization of the the net the masses finally had unlimited uncensored (for the most part) access to information. You can't close pandora's box after that without a paradigm shift in the way the public thinks.

Yet another console developer who knows absolutely nothing about PC. It's sad to see that some of the fanboys in System Wars knowing more about PC gaming than these idiots.foxhound_fox

In all fiarness Pete M. was an iconic PC developer in his day... and then his day passed. His more recent games like Fable and B&W 2 weren't bad games so much as they failed to take into account what the rest of the industry was doing at the time. By the time they hit the market they weren't all that innovative or revolutionary and on top of that their game mechanics were watered down to cater to this 'mass market' PM has been so desperate to break into. The problem is, the mass market wouldn't want revolutionary PM games even if they lived up to the hype.

The closest thing he had to a runaway PC hit was the original B&W because at the time it was something the PC had never really seen before. When he started watering it down and trying to encompass a bunch of other genres in B&W 2 he lost a lot of what made it special to the core audience he had built up over the years as a PC dev who DID innovate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I think he's smoking a big fat crack pipe with his recent comments I feel sorry for PM. He tried to reinvent himself and make what he thought the masses wanted. For this he and his studio gradually became considered second rate. Ultimately I think he just wanted to make games that everybody loved and it's sad that he misjudged so grossly placing him where he is today.

Yet another console developer who knows absolutely nothing about PC. It's sad to see that some of the fanboys in System Wars knowing more about PC gaming than these idiots.foxhound_fox

didnt he say almost exactly what Cliff said?

anyway, these guys comparing themselves to popular franchises is just rediculous if you ask me.

Why should I even bother playing baseball? I will never be like Barry Bonds or something

Why should I even bother cooking? Its not like I will be Thomas Keller or Emeril.

Why should I wash my hands? Theyre just gonna get dirty again.

This defeatist attitude is really starting to get to me. Especially when it comes after a great year (2007) and an already promising 2008.

Peter obviously hasnt heard of Portal, Darwinia, Overlord, The Witcher, Crysis, or any other countless masterpieces that arent MMOs or Sims knockoffs.

COMEON! GROW SOME BALLS, COME UP WITH A NEAT IDEA, AND TURN IT INTO A GREAT GAME FOR PC then console!

I mean, honestly.

These guys make games so they should obviously play games as well. And if they cant see that the quality games are on the PC platform, then they are just ignorant.