RIP CRPG's, I'll miss you!

I know the thread title is a little too much, but seriously what happend to the good ole days of Classic CRPG's like BG1, BG2, NWN and countless more? You just don't see those types of games anymore, not from big name developers anyway. Keep in mind, I'm not saying a game has to come from a big company to be good, But it seems to me that the few company's that are making CRPG's are low budget, European developers that can't afford decent translators or English voice-actors. In my opinion, The voice acting and pretty much everything else, besides graphics of course, is much worse in these games than in classics such as NWN and Diablo. Nevermind the fact that most of these games aren't really anything like the D&D based classics of the 1990's and early 2000's. I'd rather these smaller developers focus less on trying to look just as good Big budget games, and focus more on writing a good story and designing a good game. CRPG's were never Dependent on the graphics anyway, or atleast not as much as other Genre's. Out of all the great CRPG's out there, I don't remember any of them being called Graphics King.

By the way, I love MASS EFFECT and Fallout 3, and I'm cautiously exited for Alpha Protocol and Borderlands. But how come the the great RPG's today have to be First or Third-person Shooters? How come STALKER is considered an FPS and Fallout 3 is considered an RPG? I've played both and they seem to be in the same Genre to me, whatever the hell that is.

The truth is, Games cost more to make now than ever before, and it's only going to get more expensive, as the hardware gets better and our standards get higher. Developers have realized that by making their RPG's more simple, and action oriented, they're appealing to more people and increasing the chance of profitability. I have to admit for example, that the RPG's of today are a lot easier to get into than the Classics, and the first few minutes are moderately more enjoyable. But in the long run are usually not as addictive and rewarding.

My conclusion is that, the days of seeing yearly, Triple-nipple, complex, D&D based, Computer RPG's, like BG2 and NWN are long gone. I guess I'll just have to accept it and settle with the more simple, action oriented RPG's of the future. It's not all bad though, We have Dragon Age; Origins, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 2, and many other great games to look forward to. But, I can't help missing those Isometric Masterpieces. I'm an indie Game developer myself and although I haven't released/sold anything yet, I hope to make a great CRPG of my own someday. Until then, RIP CRPG's, I'll miss you!

*tears up a little*

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

HaloFan77

King's Bounty: The Legend (RPG/TBS hybrid), Drakensang, Risen, Divinity 2 are some recent or upcoming RPGs that might be/are good.

On topic, I kind of agree, but there might still be some hope. Especially in European RPGs, German and Russian in particular.

I know the thread title is a little too much, but seriously what happend to the good ole days of Classic CRPG's like BG1, BG2, NWN and countless more? You just don't see those types of games anymore, not from big name developers anyway. Keep in mind, I'm not saying a game has to come from a big company to be good, But it seems to me that the few company's that are making CRPG's are low budget, European developers that can't afford decent translators or English voice-actors. In my opinion, The voice acting and pretty much everything else, besides graphics of course, is much worse in these games than in classics such as NWN and Diablo. Nevermind the fact that most of these games aren't really anything like the D&D based classics of the 1990's and early 2000's. I'd rather these smaller developers focus less on trying to look just as good Big budget games, and focus more on writing a good story and designing a good game. CRPG's were never Dependent on the graphics anyway, or atleast not as much as other Genre's. Out of all the great CRPG's out there, I don't remember any of them being called Graphics King.

By the way, I love MASS EFFECT and Fallout 3, and I'm cautiously exited for Alpha Protocol and Borderlands. But how come the the great RPG's today have to be First or Third-person Shooters? How come STALKER is considered an FPS and Fallout 3 is considered an RPG? I've played both and they seem to be in the same Genre to me, whatever the hell that is.

The truth is, Games cost more to make now than ever before, and it's only going to get more expensive, as the hardware gets better and our standards get higher. Developers have realized that by making their RPG's more simple, and action oriented, they're appealing to more people and increasing the chance of profitability. I have to admit for example, that the RPG's of today are a lot easier to get into than the Classics, and the first few minutes are moderately more enjoyable. But in the long run are usually not as addictive and rewarding.

My conclusion is that, the days of seeing yearly, Triple-nipple, complex, D&D based, Computer RPG's, like BG2 and NWN are long gone. I guess I'll just have to accept it and settle with the more simple, action oriented RPG's of the future. It's not all bad though, We have Dragon Age; Origins, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 2, and many other great games to look forward to. But, I can't help missing those Isometric Masterpieces. I'm an indie Game developer myself and although I haven't released/sold anything yet, I hope to make a great CRPG of my own someday. Until then, RIP CRPG's, I'll miss you!

*tears up a little*

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

HaloFan77

Fallout 3 and Diablo are not RPGs. Whoever says they're RPGs has no clue of what RPG stands for.

And your name should ring a lot of bells. Nowadays RPGs are made consolizable because devs (naturally) want to increase their sales, simplifying them to the point of nothing more than brainless shooting/slashing with cheesy characters speaking cheesy dialogues, because else they would be too complex for the simple minds of console players.

NWN2, Drakensang, and The Witcher, are all really well done RPGs.

It's funny though - Bioware, who made BG II, is actually ruining the RPG genre. Mass Effect was a decent game - but it's not an RPG.

- When Bioware started advertising DA with that wimpy idiot Marylin Manson, I knew they had dropped the ball.

Hopefully Obsidian, CDProjekt, and Radon will continue to make great RPGs, and give some incentive to the rest of 'em.

[QUOTE="HaloFan77"]

I know the thread title is a little too much, but seriously what happend to the good ole days of Classic CRPG's like BG1, BG2, NWN and countless more? You just don't see those types of games anymore, not from big name developers anyway. Keep in mind, I'm not saying a game has to come from a big company to be good, But it seems to me that the few company's that are making CRPG's are low budget, European developers that can't afford decent translators or English voice-actors. In my opinion, The voice acting and pretty much everything else, besides graphics of course, is much worse in these games than in classics such as NWN and Diablo. Nevermind the fact that most of these games aren't really anything like the D&D based classics of the 1990's and early 2000's. I'd rather these smaller developers focus less on trying to look just as good Big budget games, and focus more on writing a good story and designing a good game. CRPG's were never Dependent on the graphics anyway, or atleast not as much as other Genre's. Out of all the great CRPG's out there, I don't remember any of them being called Graphics King.

By the way, I love MASS EFFECT and Fallout 3, and I'm cautiously exited for Alpha Protocol and Borderlands. But how come the the great RPG's today have to be First or Third-person Shooters? How come STALKER is considered an FPS and Fallout 3 is considered an RPG? I've played both and they seem to be in the same Genre to me, whatever the hell that is.

The truth is, Games cost more to make now than ever before, and it's only going to get more expensive, as the hardware gets better and our standards get higher. Developers have realized that by making their RPG's more simple, and action oriented, they're appealing to more people and increasing the chance of profitability. I have to admit for example, that the RPG's of today are a lot easier to get into than the Classics, and the first few minutes are moderately more enjoyable. But in the long run are usually not as addictive and rewarding.

My conclusion is that, the days of seeing yearly, Triple-nipple, complex, D&D based, Computer RPG's, like BG2 and NWN are long gone. I guess I'll just have to accept it and settle with the more simple, action oriented RPG's of the future. It's not all bad though, We have Dragon Age; Origins, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 2, and many other great games to look forward to. But, I can't help missing those Isometric Masterpieces. I'm an indie Game developer myself and although I haven't released/sold anything yet, I hope to make a great CRPG of my own someday. Until then, RIP CRPG's, I'll miss you!

*tears up a little*

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

Mograine

Fallout 3 and Diablo are not RPGs. Whoever says they're RPGs has no clue of what RPG stands for.

And your name should ring a lot of bells. Nowadays RPGs are made consolizable because devs (naturally) want to increase their sales, simplifying them to the point of nothing more than brainless shooting/slashing with cheesy characters speaking cheesy dialogues, because else they would be too complex for the simple minds of console players.

FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Dr_Brocoli

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

[QUOTE="HaloFan77"]

I know the thread title is a little too much, but seriously what happend to the good ole days of Classic CRPG's like BG1, BG2, NWN and countless more? You just don't see those types of games anymore, not from big name developers anyway. Keep in mind, I'm not saying a game has to come from a big company to be good, But it seems to me that the few company's that are making CRPG's are low budget, European developers that can't afford decent translators or English voice-actors. In my opinion, The voice acting and pretty much everything else, besides graphics of course, is much worse in these games than in classics such as NWN and Diablo. Nevermind the fact that most of these games aren't really anything like the D&D based classics of the 1990's and early 2000's. I'd rather these smaller developers focus less on trying to look just as good Big budget games, and focus more on writing a good story and designing a good game. CRPG's were never Dependent on the graphics anyway, or atleast not as much as other Genre's. Out of all the great CRPG's out there, I don't remember any of them being called Graphics King.

By the way, I love MASS EFFECT and Fallout 3, and I'm cautiously exited for Alpha Protocol and Borderlands. But how come the the great RPG's today have to be First or Third-person Shooters? How come STALKER is considered an FPS and Fallout 3 is considered an RPG? I've played both and they seem to be in the same Genre to me, whatever the hell that is.

The truth is, Games cost more to make now than ever before, and it's only going to get more expensive, as the hardware gets better and our standards get higher. Developers have realized that by making their RPG's more simple, and action oriented, they're appealing to more people and increasing the chance of profitability. I have to admit for example, that the RPG's of today are a lot easier to get into than the Classics, and the first few minutes are moderately more enjoyable. But in the long run are usually not as addictive and rewarding.

My conclusion is that, the days of seeing yearly, Triple-nipple, complex, D&D based, Computer RPG's, like BG2 and NWN are long gone. I guess I'll just have to accept it and settle with the more simple, action oriented RPG's of the future. It's not all bad though, We have Dragon Age; Origins, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 2, and many other great games to look forward to. But, I can't help missing those Isometric Masterpieces. I'm an indie Game developer myself and although I haven't released/sold anything yet, I hope to make a great CRPG of my own someday. Until then, RIP CRPG's, I'll miss you!

*tears up a little*

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

Mograine

Fallout 3 and Diablo are not RPGs. Whoever says they're RPGs has no clue of what RPG stands for.

And your name should ring a lot of bells. Nowadays RPGs are made consolizable because devs (naturally) want to increase their sales, simplifying them to the point of nothing more than brainless shooting/slashing with cheesy characters speaking cheesy dialogues, because else they would be too complex for the simple minds of console players.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Mograine

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Dr_Brocoli

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

Dr_Brocoli

In Mograine's defense (not that he/she needs any), I play the role of a Rainbow Six team member in Rainbow Six: Vegas...but that does not translate into RS:V into an role-playing game. ALL games have you playing a role. That does not mean that ALL games are role-playing games. If you want to talk about stats and inventory, God of War (granted, it's a console game) has stats and inventory AND you play the role of a character...does that make God of War an RPG? I don't think so.

EDIT -

By that logic every single game is an RPG. Except RTSes... However you are partially right, Mograine is making the common mistake of saying "Lol, it's not an RPG because you don't make choices" (I assume anyway, its what it sounds like) which is true for Pen and Paper RPGs. But is NOT true for Computer Games.

kieranb2000

Actually, there are quite a few computer RPGs that have choice playing a major role in the game. Knights of the Old Republic comes first to mind. Fallout 2 also is right up there with choices determining how the game plays out and ends. However, I will readily admit that it seems like most all RPGs don't even allow your character to choose how the game will end up.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"][QUOTE="Mograine"]

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

Ein-7919

In Mograine's defense (not that he/she needs any), I play the role of a Rainbow Six team member in Rainbow Six: Vegas...but that does not translate into RS:V into an role-playing game. ALL games have you playing a role. That does not mean that ALL games are role-playing games. If you want to talk about stats and inventory, God of War (granted, it's a console game) has stats and inventory AND you play the role of a character...does that make God of War an RPG? I don't think so.

[QUOTE="Ein-7919"]

In Mograine's defense (not that he/she needs any), I play the role of a Rainbow Six team member in Rainbow Six: Vegas...but that does not translate into RS:V into an role-playing game. ALL games have you playing a role. That does not mean that ALL games are role-playing games. If you want to talk about stats and inventory, God of War (granted, it's a console game) has stats and inventory AND you play the role of a character...does that make God of War an RPG? I don't think so.

Dr_Brocoli

You see, that's funny because I was going by your logic. You can either differentiate between genres using a VERY broad definition or a narrow definition that requires multiple sub-genres. Your definition for an RPG being you playing the role of a character is FAR too broad (especially since it covers ALL games equally...even RTS games [you play the role of a commander]).

The problem with painting with too broad a brush is that you lose ALL other colors.

lets see, leave your bubble first of all, and see: YOU PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. Get it ? how old are you by any chance? Your comprehension seems tiny.Dr_Brocoli

And your comprehension IS null.

I see kieranb2000 and Ein-7919 already answered partially for me.

I'll add: in RPGs you have a relevance in the game, the world progresses with you and actions have significant consequences, plus the game is heavily story-driven. FO3 definitely doesn't have any of these elements, Diablos would exist and be great games even without Diablo's story, you as a game hero are as good as anyone else and the game itself is (by far) more action-driven than story-driven.

@TC

You misunderstood, I didn't mean to offend you or take a part against Halo, I was talking about the Halo franchise's success in representing the X360. A console gamer should understand more easily how successful and simple to play console games are because of controls, especially considering a comparison between console and computer's RPGs.

Diablo is not an RPG. It's a common misconception, it's more of a hack'n'slash/action game, probably people used to call it an RPG because there wasn't the idea of "Hack and slash" yet. Not as we know it now, at least.

Think about it a little, as I just said if it didn't have a story it would still stand tall as a game and it would still have had the same amount of success, maybe only slightly lesser.

Would NWNs, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gates, etc. work without a story, and without YOU as game hero? Definitely not.

[QUOTE="HaloFan77"]

BTW please recommend any good CRPG's I may not have heard of.

HenriH-42

King's Bounty: The Legend (RPG/TBS hybrid), Drakensang, Risen, Divinity 2 are some recent or upcoming RPGs that might be/are good.

On topic, I kind of agree, but there might still be some hope. Especially in European RPGs, German and Russian in particular.

Don't forget Mount & Blade Warband along with Age of Decadence. To the OP the CRPG market isn't dead but it is more you have to look more then a few years ago. Most people want ACTION, EXPLOSION, B00BIES, AND VIOLENCE so we are in the minority. Thank god for Eastern Europe and GOG.

Get used to it or get out.

Ok guys really this is not difficult. First you have the genre RPG.This pertains to ANY game featuring character development and some form of skill choice, be it stat distribution or abilities.

Then you have sub-genres.

Diablo, Titan Quest, Dungeon Siege, etc. are referred to as "Action RPGs"

NWN, BG, etc are "Traditional CRPGs"

Notice how both Diablo and NWN are RPGs, yet not in the same sub-genre.

Here's some light reading for those of you too stupid to use the internet properly. CRPGs

On Topic - it's a shame that the industry is moving away from the Traditional CRPGs of old, but such is life. They've realized that shorter, more action-filled games will appeal to a larger audience and thus sell more copies. They could afford to make hardcore games before because that's the only audience there was, but now it's expanded and gaming isn't just for "geeks", and the new audience is way bigger. You'll always have the devs who give in to their sense of nostalgia and make great throwback games, but they'll be few and far between.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Mograine

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

Final Fantasy may be not be an RPG since you are watching a movie game. Where the story unfolds before you with you having no effect on it. So some may not consider it an RPG.

Diablo may be considered one because you do progress and advance your character with their skills and stats. You are in a way building your character or in another way building your role....

Mass Effect may not be considered an RPG because of how closely is resembles a shooter. And since many shooters to have "roles" you could say that Mass Effect is just a shooter that has shooter "roles" in it.

You can't say that Diablo has absolutely nothing to do with RPGs because RPGs are games in which you do progress or advance your character just like Diablo does... but that is the only thing it has in common. It is a Action game with RPG elements.... which now-a-days is a lot of games. I think the closest thing to actual RPGs are Bioware's games. Because you create your character and choose their role while building them through different skills. Also your "role" in that world does change depending on the choices you make (which have as much impact of should i brush my teeth or not). The choices may not have insane differences, but differences none the less. The choices to turn out better than Fable 1s, which was do i want the sword or not?.

By the way, I love MASS EFFECT and Fallout 3, and I'm cautiously exited for Alpha Protocol and Borderlands. But how come the the great RPG's today have to be First or Third-person Shooters?

HaloFan77

I don't know why you should've missed CRPG? if you totally enjoy ME and Fallout 3, yet don't bother to mention NWN2->MotB, which is current with ME and purely DnD? there are fewer and fewer cIassical CRPG (the most recent being Drakensang, released this year), yes, but if you're happy with current high-profile games which you'd call them RPG, I really don't see the problem?

The definition of RPG varies between people. In some ways Final Fantasy games arn't RPGs.... in some ways Diablo is....... Other ways Mass Effect isn't.

Final Fantasy may be not be an RPG since you are watching a movie game. Where the story unfolds before you with you having no effect on it. So some may not consider it an RPG.

Diablo may be considered one because you do progress and advance your character with their skills and stats. You are in a way building your character or in another way building your role....

Mass Effect may not be considered an RPG because of how closely is resembles a shooter. And since many shooters to have "roles" you could say that Mass Effect is just a shooter that has shooter "roles" in it.

You can't say that Diablo has absolutely nothing to do with RPGs because RPGs are games in which you do progress or advance your character just like Diablo does... but that is the only thing it has in common. It is a Action game with RPG elements.... which now-a-days is a lot of games. I think the closest thing to actual RPGs are Bioware's games. Because you create your character and choose their role while building them through different skills. Also your "role" in that world does change depending on the choices you make (which have as much impact of should i brush my teeth or not). The choices may not have insane differences, but differences none the less. The choices to turn out better than Fable 1s, which was do i want the sword or not?.

Agent_Kaliaver

Well said, even though I fear Bioware's games may not be as good from now on since they're owned by EA.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Dr_Brocoli

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

Diablo is a hack n slash action game.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Dr_Brocoli

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]

lets see, leave your bubble first of all, and see: YOU PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. Get it ? how old are you by any chance? Your comprehension seems tiny.chandu83

by that definition every game including Doom 3 is a RPG.

yeah, and Supreme Commander (three "paths" to choose from), CnC: Tiberium War (the chosen ones from three camps), and World in Conflict (Parker) are RPG as well.

if you don't tie "RPG" to its CRPG root, any game can be more or less RPG; for example, DMC4 and STALKER, which one is more RPG? in DMC4 you play TWO roles and have skill progression; STALKER has inventory and quest taking.

don't froget Crysis, you play different roles in Crysis and Warhead...there's no end to this~~"

Sigh, I know what you mean my friend. I am so sick of these "RPG-shooting" games. I want something like Dungeon Siege 3 or a new Icewind Dale!

Sigh, I know what you mean my friend. I am so sick of these "RPG-shooting" games. I want something like Dungeon Siege 3 or a new Icewind Dale!

masterfarticus

the baulders gate trend is losing steam, it had to happen sooner or later.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]lets see, leave your bubble first of all, and see: YOU PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. PLAY THE ROLE OF A CHARACTER. ROLE PLAYING GAME. Get it ? how old are you by any chance? Your comprehension seems tiny.Mograine

And your comprehension IS null.

I see kieranb2000 and Ein-7919 already answered partially for me.

I'll add: in RPGs you have a relevance in the game, the world progresses with you and actions have significant consequences, plus the game is heavily story-driven. FO3 definitely doesn't have any of these elements, Diablos would exist and be great games even without Diablo's story, you as a game hero are as good as anyone else and the game itself is (by far) more action-driven than story-driven.

@TC

You misunderstood, I didn't mean to offend you or take a part against Halo, I was talking about the Halo franchise's success in representing the X360. A console gamer should understand more easily how successful and simple to play console games are because of controls, especially considering a comparison between console and computer's RPGs.

Diablo is not an RPG. It's a common misconception, it's more of a hack'n'slash/action game, probably people used to call it an RPG because there wasn't the idea of "Hack and slash" yet. Not as we know it now, at least.

Think about it a little, as I just said if it didn't have a story it would still stand tall as a game and it would still have had the same amount of success, maybe only slightly lesser.

Would NWNs, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gates, etc. work without a story, and without YOU as game hero? Definitely not.

And to the OP, as stated , theres still a lot of CRPGs around, they just dont get all the attention. Drakensang, Risen, Divinity 2, and Dragon Age are all hitting this year. Thats actually quite a bit.

Im most excited for Dragon Age. I find it funny that because Bioware decided to do something different with a trailer and use some modern rock, suddenly the game sucks. The gameplay videos all show that it will still be classic CRPG class-based gameplay, and I cant wait.

So in Fallout 3, when you can either save or absolutely destroy the first town you encounter, that isnt action-consequence? In Diablo, YOU choose what class to be, YOU choose where to build and grow your character, and it is story-driven. While you dont choose your path exactly, your characters actions affect the world around him. Its an RPG.TheCrazed420

Because you have ONE "slightly" relevant choice in A WHOLE FRIGGIN GAME it makes Fallout 3 an RPG. I'm starting to think Bethesda put such a choice on purpose to make people think it's an RPG :roll: Now tell me, why did I put the Modified FEV Virus in the Purifier yet I still meet ghouls, animals and super muties? Right, because choices are utterly meaningless other than -1000 karma points, that somehow balanced out with the fact that I went in to digit the code.

In Diablo, as I said the story is redundant. Without it, Diablo would have still been a fine pair of games, and it definitely is action-driven, not story-driven, like The Witcher is. It's a hack'n'slash-action-RPG, not an RPG.

In video games, the term RPG has lost all association with it's roots. Heck, even Zelda on the NES is considered an "RPG" by manyzomglolcats

I consider RPGs any game with"

Level gains, Progressive stats, Loot and inventory management, Extensive dialogue between character and NPCs in a Heavy story based experience.

etc etc

Perspective, types of weapons used, opinions on quality, live action vs turn based. These do not make it an RPG in my opinion.

Fallout 3 is clearly an RPG. the FPS perspective is optional and is the only factor i can see that would confuse people.

Oblivion is clearly an RPG. Once again the FPS perspective seems to turn some people off, but doesn't change the genre imo.

The witcher is clearly an RPG.

Bioshock isn't really an RPG, it is on the fence. butthere areheavy RPG elements. I LOVE when games borrow from RPGs. to me it just enhances the experience.

The debate about what makes an RPG seems to sometimes boil down to peoples opinions on the game more than actual game mechanics. this seems silly to me.

The term RPG should be an objective label, not a subjective opinion.

I consider RPGs any game with"

Level gains, Progressive stats, Loot and inventory management, Extensive dialogue between character and NPCs in a Heavy story based experience.

etc etc

Perspective, types of weapons used, opinions on quality, live action vs turn based. These do not make it an RPG in my opinion.

Fallout 3 is clearly an RPG. the FPS perspective is optional and is the only factor i can see that would confuse people.

Oblivion is clearly an RPG. Once again the FPS perspective seems to turn some people off, but doesn't change the genre imo.

The witcher is clearly an RPG.

Bioshock isn't really an RPG, it is on the fence. butthere areheavy RPG elements. I LOVE when games borrow from RPGs. to me it just enhances the experience.

The debate about what makes an RPG seems to sometimes boil down to peoples opinions on the game more than actual game mechanics. this seems silly to me.

The term RPG should be an objective label, not a subjective opinion.

Meejoe27

Two contradictions in one post! Double personality here :P ?

because else they would be too complex for the simple minds of console players.Mograine

I consider RPGs any game with"

Level gains, Progressive stats, Loot and inventory management, Extensive dialogue between character and NPCs in a Heavy story based experience.

etc etc

Perspective, types of weapons used, opinions on quality, live action vs turn based. These do not make it an RPG in my opinion.

Fallout 3 is clearly an RPG. the FPS perspective is optional and is the only factor i can see that would confuse people.

Oblivion is clearly an RPG. Once again the FPS perspective seems to turn some people off, but doesn't change the genre imo.

The witcher is clearly an RPG.

The term RPG should be an objective label, not a subjective opinion.

Meejoe27

1. so these "objective" criteria are all required or "standalone"? does a game have to have all those features to be considered a RPG? STALKER has inventory management, is it RPG? also, how to objectively discern whether a game provides "heavy story based experience" or not?

2. I really don't like people pull combat styIe and perspective into RPG discussion. shooter perspective is the least of the problems of Fallout 3 and Oblivion -- you don't see people doubt about VtMB's CRPG status.

i have no problem with high-profile and multi-plat rpgs, but i do think the true crpgs have become a sort of dying breed, at least among north american devs. Dragon Age, which Bioware claimed to be a spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate, will probably be worth keeping an eye on. but judging from what we've seen and known so far, i highly doubt it'll be the crpg champion that we've been hoping for.

i have no problem with high-profile and multi-plat rpgs, but i do think the true crpgs have become a sort of dying breed, at least among north american devs. Dragon Age, which Bioware claimed to be a spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate, will probably be worth keeping an eye on. but judging from what we've seen and known so far, i highly doubt it'll be the crpg champion that we've been hoping for.

Jinroh_basic

Sigh, I know what you mean my friend. I am so sick of these "RPG-shooting" games. I want something like Dungeon Siege 3 or a new Icewind Dale!

masterfarticus

Another Icewind Dale would be great. I would love that.

a couple of signs indicated that Dragon Age was never a pc centric title to begin with, no matter what Bioware told us.

1. Quad core for recommended spec - lol really? call me paranoid but it reminds me of GTA4 and its piss-poor optimisation.

2. lack of character classes - doesn't matter how you cut it, because Dragon Age has only 3 classes and that's it. streamlined/simplified gameplay is NOT what crpgs are about.

i could be wrong, but it's pretty clear to me that Bioware has been lying - Dragon Age is not a title that'll share its roots with the true crpgs, and how they think they can have people believe them about the BG successor crap is totally beyond me.

a couple of signs indicated that Dragon Age was never a pc centric title to begin with, no matter what Bioware told us.

1. Quad core for recommended spec - lol really? call me paranoid but it reminds me of GTA4 and its piss-poor optimisation.

2. lack of character classes - doesn't matter how you cut it, because Dragon Age has only 3 classes and that's it. streamlined/simplified gameplay is NOT what crpgs are about.

i could be wrong, but it's pretty clear to me that Bioware has been lying - Dragon Age is not a title that'll share its roots with the true crpgs, and how they think they can have people believe them about the BG successor crap is totally beyond me.

Jinroh_basic

[QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"]

a couple of signs indicated that Dragon Age was never a pc centric title to begin with, no matter what Bioware told us.

1. Quad core for recommended spec - lol really? call me paranoid but it reminds me of GTA4 and its piss-poor optimisation.

2. lack of character classes - doesn't matter how you cut it, because Dragon Age has only 3 classes and that's it. streamlined/simplified gameplay is NOT what crpgs are about.

i could be wrong, but it's pretty clear to me that Bioware has been lying - Dragon Age is not a title that'll share its roots with the true crpgs, and how they think they can have people believe them about the BG successor crap is totally beyond me.

TerroRizing

glad you like it. but i didn't. shallow class system (sticking to the lore is not an excuse for making a shallow game) and poor translation totally ruined it for me.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"] FO3 and Diablo ARE RPGS. You have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see, RPG: Role Playing Games. Now lets see, in both those games you play a role of a character and have stats, progressino etc.. HMMM I WONDER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?Mograine

Stats, and characters progressing make a RPG?

You are just giving more evidence of what I said.

[QUOTE="Meejoe27"]

I consider RPGs any game with"

Level gains, Progressive stats, Loot and inventory management, Extensive dialogue between character and NPCs in a Heavy story based experience.

etc etc

Perspective, types of weapons used, opinions on quality, live action vs turn based. These do not make it an RPG in my opinion.

Fallout 3 is clearly an RPG. the FPS perspective is optional and is the only factor i can see that would confuse people.

Oblivion is clearly an RPG. Once again the FPS perspective seems to turn some people off, but doesn't change the genre imo.

The witcher is clearly an RPG.

Bioshock isn't really an RPG, it is on the fence. butthere areheavy RPG elements. I LOVE when games borrow from RPGs. to me it just enhances the experience.

The debate about what makes an RPG seems to sometimes boil down to peoples opinions on the game more than actual game mechanics. this seems silly to me.

The term RPG should be an objective label, not a subjective opinion.

Mograine

Two contradictions in one post! Double personality here :P ?

I see no contradictions in Fallout 3 being an RPG.

My opinion is forRPG to be an objective label, but i never claimed to be the label maker. Those are simply what i consider to be RPGs.

I can make the claim that NO games are RPGs easier than claim that Fallout 3 isn't an RPG.

Did you even play Fallout 3? it sounds like you didn't.