RTS suggestion

It depends on what type of RTS game you want really...
Fast Paced, shorter and smaller battles (C&C3) vs slower, longer and far bigger battles (Supreme Commander).
I prefer Command and Conquer 3 myself, though I am however a big fan of the series.
Doom_HellKnight

I want an RTS that has depth, not just build a billion tanks and flatten the enemy base with. With Tiberium Wars from what I'm seeing on the official site it has a lot fewer units than Supreme commander, is that right? But are the units themselves more detailed and complicated like in COH so a single type of unit is much more versatile and is equivallent to many different types for supreme commander?

Go with Supreme Commander. CC3 is fun. But Sup Comm has a lot of depth. It all depends on your choice I have both and they are both quite fun.treytakahashi

Go for C&C3 SC is more of a build alot of stuff and rush thing.sol_blade22

So is C&C more like Company of Heroes where each unit is important and there is a lot of tactics involved?

I want to know which game is more slow paced? Or precisely which one encourages defensive tactics (ie. turtling). I don't mean by complete turtle tactics, but one where you don't have to que a billion tanks back in your base with rally points everywhere, and fighting 6 fronts at once because the entire game is about rushing out your enemy all across the map. Like the Warhammer Dawn of war where you have to keep moving all the time, and can't stay stationary, entrench your positions and move on and fight steadily. It's all beacon rush.

So the slower, planning type is what I like.

[QUOTE="Doom_HellKnight"]It depends on what type of RTS game you want really...
Fast Paced, shorter and smaller battles (C&C3) vs slower, longer and far bigger battles (Supreme Commander).
I prefer Command and Conquer 3 myself, though I am however a big fan of the series.
ZJI

I want an RTS that has depth, not just build a billion tanks and flatten the enemy base with. With Tiberium Wars from what I'm seeing on the official site it has a lot fewer units than Supreme commander, is that right? But are the units themselves more detailed and complicated like in COH so a single type of unit is much more versatile and is equivallent to many different types for supreme commander?

Hellknight summed it up fairly well. Both are good games, they are just different.

As for your question, no, neither game has units like CoH. In C&C 3 there might be a few units with special abilities, such asa C4 charge or something of that nature, but thats about it. In SupCom, there really arent any special actions, some units might have an on-off switch but thats about it (i.e. shield generators, etc). Your commander, however, does have a few upgrade selections and can become an integral part of your strategy.

SupCom definately has more units, but its a little lame since once you unlock the second, third, and experimental tiers you sort of abandon the lesser vehicles. You might hear people saying "oh thats stupid, a good general uses everything at his disposal blah blah blah" but dont be fooled; why use a light tank when you can build a heavy tank? ESPECIALLY since resources are so easy to come by.

Both games are fairly vanilla and traditional in that they dont innovate the genre (and thats OK, I like clazzic gameplay), and ultimately you will be building large armies to go flatten enemy bases. As of right now SuPCom has slightly better multiplayer, but C&C3 will be fixed sooner than later and it will be a good contender.

If you want amazing singleplayer, however, then there is no debate: go with C&C3.

My personal vote goes to C&C 3. I love SupCom, but C&C3 just had more of what I want.

I want to know which game is more slow paced? Or precisely which one encourages defensive tactics (ie. turtling). I don't mean by complete turtle tactics, but one where you don't have to que a billion tanks back in your base with rally points everywhere, and fighting 6 fronts at once because the entire game is about rushing out your enemy all across the map. Like the Warhammer Dawn of war where you have to keep moving all the time, and can't stay stationary, entrench your positions and move on and fight steadily. It's all beacon rush.

So the slower, planning type is what I like.

ZJI

Supreme Commander is definately turtle friendly. Just look at all the defensive structures: there are walls, cannons, small artillery, big artillery, antimissile defense systems, shields, cruise missiles, etc. If its a long game, youre more likely to get killed by a nuke or artillery barrage than you are by a full-on assault of enemy units.

C&C3 is definately on a smaller scale. My games often consist of 8-12 air units supporting tanks with APCs following behind (with snipers inside for anti-infantry). There are defenses in C&C3, but they are easily destroyed so they seem more like a temporary solution. In addition, Tiberium fields are finite (they do regrow, but slow enough to not make it worth the wait) so you must actively seek out new fields. They include a surveyer unit which basically gives you a little area to control and to place structures on: I thought this was neat since you could send a small escort then place your surveyer thingy and then put down a tiberium refinery and some defenses. Pretty soon it grows into a full-fledged secondary base with tanks and troops coming out.

Supreme Commander is definately turtle friendly. Just look at all the defensive structures: there are walls, cannons, small artillery, big artillery, antimissile defense systems, shields, cruise missiles, etc. If its a long game, youre more likely to get killed by a nuke or artillery barrage than you are by a full-on assault of enemy units.

C&C3 is definately on a smaller scale. My games often consist of 8-12 air units supporting tanks with APCs following behind (with snipers inside for anti-infantry). There are defenses in C&C3, but they are easily destroyed so they seem more like a temporary solution. In addition, Tiberium fields are finite (they do regrow, but slow enough to not make it worth the wait) so you must actively seek out new fields. They include a surveyer unit which basically gives you a little area to control and to place structures on: I thought this was neat since you could send a small escort then place your surveyer thingy and then put down a tiberium refinery and some defenses. Pretty soon it grows into a full-fledged secondary base with tanks and troops coming out.

mrbojangles25

I think I'll get supreme commander then. I like games that are turtle friendly, I hate the games where you have to expand so much to fight for resources, and are always fighting all across the map at the same time. Like if they try to attack all of your harvesting bases at once so you will have management problems by moving around the map to control 5 different areas at once.

But I don't like how in Supreme commander the lower tech units becomes obsclete once the better ones are researched. That makes the game have very few units in reality despite the advertisement boasts hundreds of units.

I rarely play multiplayer, I play mostly single player, but not the campiagn. For strategy games I mostly play skrimish. How is the skrimish AI in SupCom?

Just d\l the demos, but I personally perfer C&C3 for it's story and singleplayer.linkthewindow

Command and Conquer 3 Tuberium wars, is a brilliant game If you like the Command and Conquer series you will love Tiberium Wars. But to be sure download the demo, for Tiberium wars or supreme commander.123monkey

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Supreme Commander is definately turtle friendly. Just look at all the defensive structures: there are walls, cannons, small artillery, big artillery, antimissile defense systems, shields, cruise missiles, etc. If its a long game, youre more likely to get killed by a nuke or artillery barrage than you are by a full-on assault of enemy units.

C&C3 is definately on a smaller scale. My games often consist of 8-12 air units supporting tanks with APCs following behind (with snipers inside for anti-infantry). There are defenses in C&C3, but they are easily destroyed so they seem more like a temporary solution. In addition, Tiberium fields are finite (they do regrow, but slow enough to not make it worth the wait) so you must actively seek out new fields. They include a surveyer unit which basically gives you a little area to control and to place structures on: I thought this was neat since you could send a small escort then place your surveyer thingy and then put down a tiberium refinery and some defenses. Pretty soon it grows into a full-fledged secondary base with tanks and troops coming out.

ZJI

I think I'll get supreme commander then. I like games that are turtle friendly, I hate the games where you have to expand so much to fight for resources, and are always fighting all across the map at the same time. Like if they try to attack all of your harvesting bases at once so you will have management problems by moving around the map to control 5 different areas at once.

But I don't like how in Supreme commander the lower tech units becomes obsclete once the better ones are researched. That makes the game have very few units in reality despite the advertisement boasts hundreds of units.

I rarely play multiplayer, I play mostly single player, but not the campiagn. For strategy games I mostly play skrimish. How is the skrimish AI in SupCom?

The skirmish AI in SupCom is nothing short of brilliant imo. Not only do they have easy, medium, and hard AIs, but they also have tech (gets advanced units first, then attacks), horde (costantly sends huge armies against you), and balanced (a mix of the previous two).

And its not so much that the previous tier'd units become obsolete, its just mostly the tier 1 units that you dont use anymore. You will problably still use lots of tier 2 units such as the mobile missile laucnhers and AA vehicles etc.

How do resources work? Do you have to go out and grab resource location or points like in Tiberium wars or dawn of war? Like fighting many skrimishes all across the map at the same time, with massive switching from battle site to battle site giving a few clicks to each and so on?

How do resources work? Do you have to go out and grab resource location or points like in Tiberium wars or dawn of war? Like fighting many skrimishes all across the map at the same time, with massive switching from battle site to battle site giving a few clicks to each and so on?

ZJI

The resource system is actually quite innovative. If you ever played Total Annihilation, it works the exact same way in SupCom

Basically, you have two resources: metal and energy. To gain metal you place mines over metal veins and to gain energy you build power plants, which come in four different sizes (the small ones, geothermal, tier 2, and the super nice tier 3 generators). Mines come in three sizes.

The real neat thing is that you dont exactly have a lump sum like in other RTSs. Instead, there is a "rate" system. For example, if I have four mines that each produce +2 metal generation and 6 small power plants that each produce 25 energy, my overall rate will be +8 metal and +150 energy.

When you build something, it puts a drain on your rate. So lets say I want to build a turret and it has a cost of -9 metal and -100 energy...the total rate of resources while building it would be -1 metal and +50 energy. The -1 metal would slowly drain your reserves of metal, but you would still be producing a surplus of energy.

Reserves work like a checking account in a way. You have a set capacity, say 1000 metal and 2500 energy. While buildings and units have a drain cost, they also have a lump sum as well. So lets say you have to build a turret and it drains -20 metal and you only produce +8 metal. If your reserves are high enough (raised by building metal storage structures) and the total metal requirement is lower than your reserves, you should be OK.

Its a great system, and after a while you can usually get about 10-20 or so constructor units going full-time buildings stuff.

Forgot to mention a few things

You can also build metal generators that dont need metal veins. These take up a lot of energy though. Fortunately, the game allows the player to build power generators adjacent to most buildings which actually reduces their overal drain on energy, not to mention it looks neat having a tier 3 metal generator surrounded by four tier 2 power generators with glowing cables feeding the metal generator.

Also, early on, it helps to set a builder unit on patrol mode since they can harvest trees for energy and rocks for metal.

supreme commander.

C&C3 isn't bad but just didn't appeal this time around. I bought it and i haven't played it too much. I find supreme commander is a lot more fun

[QUOTE="ZJI"]

How do resources work? Do you have to go out and grab resource location or points like in Tiberium wars or dawn of war? Like fighting many skrimishes all across the map at the same time, with massive switching from battle site to battle site giving a few clicks to each and so on?

mrbojangles25

The resource system is actually quite innovative. If you ever played Total Annihilation, it works the exact same way in SupCom

Basically, you have two resources: metal and energy. To gain metal you place mines over metal veins and to gain energy you build power plants, which come in four different sizes (the small ones, geothermal, tier 2, and the super nice tier 3 generators). Mines come in three sizes.

The real neat thing is that you dont exactly have a lump sum like in other RTSs. Instead, there is a "rate" system. For example, if I have four mines that each produce +2 metal generation and 6 small power plants that each produce 25 energy, my overall rate will be +8 metal and +150 energy.

When you build something, it puts a drain on your rate. So lets say I want to build a turret and it has a cost of -9 metal and -100 energy...the total rate of resources while building it would be -1 metal and +50 energy. The -1 metal would slowly drain your reserves of metal, but you would still be producing a surplus of energy.

Reserves work like a checking account in a way. You have a set capacity, say 1000 metal and 2500 energy. While buildings and units have a drain cost, they also have a lump sum as well. So lets say you have to build a turret and it drains -20 metal and you only produce +8 metal. If your reserves are high enough (raised by building metal storage structures) and the total metal requirement is lower than your reserves, you should be OK.

Its a great system, and after a while you can usually get about 10-20 or so constructor units going full-time buildings stuff.

Forgot to mention a few things

You can also build metal generators that dont need metal veins. These take up a lot of energy though. Fortunately, the game allows the player to build power generators adjacent to most buildings which actually reduces their overal drain on energy, not to mention it looks neat having a tier 3 metal generator surrounded by four tier 2 power generators with glowing cables feeding the metal generator.

Also, early on, it helps to set a builder unit on patrol mode since they can harvest trees for energy and rocks for metal.

And that's what got me to cancel my plan for buying company of heroes.

Act of war and Company of heroes are my fav. but I like also Joint Task Forcedayaccus007

COH is just not suited to my style. (Very few Rts are, but most TBS are)

I want to know which game is more slow paced? Or precisely which one encourages defensive tactics (ie. turtling). I don't mean by complete turtle tactics, but one where you don't have to que a billion tanks back in your base with rally points everywhere, and fighting 6 fronts at once because the entire game is about rushing out your enemy all across the map. Like the Warhammer Dawn of war where you have to keep moving all the time, and can't stay stationary, entrench your positions and move on and fight steadily. It's all beacon rush.

So the slower, planning type is what I like.

ZJI

IF that's what you want then I recommend Supreme Commander.

[QUOTE="ZJI"]

I want to know which game is more slow paced? Or precisely which one encourages defensive tactics (ie. turtling). I don't mean by complete turtle tactics, but one where you don't have to que a billion tanks back in your base with rally points everywhere, and fighting 6 fronts at once because the entire game is about rushing out your enemy all across the map. Like the Warhammer Dawn of war where you have to keep moving all the time, and can't stay stationary, entrench your positions and move on and fight steadily. It's all beacon rush.

So the slower, planning type is what I like.

jorgeluisbl

IF that's what you want then I recommend Supreme Commander.

Tiberium wars or Supreme commander?ZJI

I haven't played Supreme Commander, so I can't tell you about that game... C&C3 is an "old school" RTS. Basically the controls are the same as in Red Alert 2. Aslo, if you don't own a high end system, C&C3 might be a better choice...

[QUOTE="ZJI"]Tiberium wars or Supreme commander?varpad

I haven't played Supreme Commander, so I can't tell you about that game... C&C3 is an "old school" RTS. Basically the controls are the same as in Red Alert 2. Aslo, if you don't own a high end system, C&C3 might be a better choice...

I don't like those RTS like AOEIII that has gameplay of the 90s. I'll get SupCom since you can turtle, I like that.

I also don't like games like Dawn of war or COH where defensive play is not allowed.

Beware, I'm a ten-year Total Annihilation veteran, and even I found the learning curve in SupCom intimidating. I had to withdraw sorrily into sandbox mode after the first game. Be patient. Don't make conclusions after a few minutes playing it. If you have any questions, just ask me or any other SupCom players out there, here, in the SupCom forum, or best of all, over at GPGNet forums - that place has now become the focal point of the entire SupCom community.madrocketeer

There are just so many nuances in the game to master, such as exploiting the adjacency bonuses of various structures, effective overlapping shield set-ups, etc. The game has very few unit special abilities, so it's not entirely focused on micro, but micromanagement skills will come very handy in some situations. And yes the game can get very hectic, especially later on in games with many players. A high mouse APM, while not necessary, will still be put to good use in this game.madrocketeer

[QUOTE="varpad"]

[QUOTE="ZJI"]Tiberium wars or Supreme commander?ZJI

I haven't played Supreme Commander, so I can't tell you about that game... C&C3 is an "old school" RTS. Basically the controls are the same as in Red Alert 2. Aslo, if you don't own a high end system, C&C3 might be a better choice...

I don't like those RTS like AOEIII that has gameplay of the 90s. I'll get SupCom since you can turtle, I like that.

I also don't like games like Dawn of war or COH where defensive play is not allowed.

Hmmm...yes...I also didn't like rushing. I was also basically a boomer or turtling player, but I got addicted to the W40k universe. CoH is as realistic as a strategy can be, so that is why I'm a fan of that game, too. So, if you don't like rushing, don't buy C&C3, because, as some say, it is a "rusher's heaven"...

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="ZJI"]

How do resources work? Do you have to go out and grab resource location or points like in Tiberium wars or dawn of war? Like fighting many skrimishes all across the map at the same time, with massive switching from battle site to battle site giving a few clicks to each and so on?

ZJI

The resource system is actually quite innovative. If you ever played Total Annihilation, it works the exact same way in SupCom

Basically, you have two resources: metal and energy. To gain metal you place mines over metal veins and to gain energy you build power plants, which come in four different sizes (the small ones, geothermal, tier 2, and the super nice tier 3 generators). Mines come in three sizes.

The real neat thing is that you dont exactly have a lump sum like in other RTSs. Instead, there is a "rate" system. For example, if I have four mines that each produce +2 metal generation and 6 small power plants that each produce 25 energy, my overall rate will be +8 metal and +150 energy.

When you build something, it puts a drain on your rate. So lets say I want to build a turret and it has a cost of -9 metal and -100 energy...the total rate of resources while building it would be -1 metal and +50 energy. The -1 metal would slowly drain your reserves of metal, but you would still be producing a surplus of energy.

Reserves work like a checking account in a way. You have a set capacity, say 1000 metal and 2500 energy. While buildings and units have a drain cost, they also have a lump sum as well. So lets say you have to build a turret and it drains -20 metal and you only produce +8 metal. If your reserves are high enough (raised by building metal storage structures) and the total metal requirement is lower than your reserves, you should be OK.

Its a great system, and after a while you can usually get about 10-20 or so constructor units going full-time buildings stuff.

Forgot to mention a few things

You can also build metal generators that dont need metal veins. These take up a lot of energy though. Fortunately, the game allows the player to build power generators adjacent to most buildings which actually reduces their overal drain on energy, not to mention it looks neat having a tier 3 metal generator surrounded by four tier 2 power generators with glowing cables feeding the metal generator.

Also, early on, it helps to set a builder unit on patrol mode since they can harvest trees for energy and rocks for metal.

And that's what got me to cancel my plan for buying company of heroes.

You can rush out if you want to, but you dont have to.

If you were careful and quick enough, you could actually build your base in a very small segment of the map and use only power generators and metal generators to supply yourself with materials, with maybe 6-8 metal extractors to start with.

Ad like someone said earlier, you can go the whole game without actively sending out an army. Just sit back, que up some nukes (maybe some heavy arty), and watch the fireworks. Just be sure to build an anti-nuke missile launcher first!

Hmmm I think I will go try that tactic now...against an easy AI opponent of course.

There is quite a debate about the nature of SupCom on it's official forum. Some are saying that the game encourages turtuling and teching up for a showdown. Like in simcity where you have to time to plan and build. Others say that this game is just like C&C, Starcraft and Dawn of war where there are constant rushes and skrimishes going on. Which view is correct? I think the forumers on Gamespot can have a more impartial opinion than the fanboys on the official forums.ZJI

[QUOTE="varpad"]

[QUOTE="ZJI"]Tiberium wars or Supreme commander?ZJI

I haven't played Supreme Commander, so I can't tell you about that game... C&C3 is an "old school" RTS. Basically the controls are the same as in Red Alert 2. Aslo, if you don't own a high end system, C&C3 might be a better choice...

I don't like those RTS like AOEIII that has gameplay of the 90s. I'll get SupCom since you can turtle, I like that.

I also don't like games like Dawn of war or COH where defensive play is not allowed.

A few words to my fellow turtler, ALWAYS send out scout plans in SupCom! I learned this the hard way in the beta, when what would have been an awsome sea landing on to my enemie's island, turned into the destruction of my base by a Monkeylord I didn't see coming :(

If supcom offers you the option to play defensively then I'll definitely get it. Because there is virtually no other RTS out there that doesn't force you to rush like mad.

But about the performance, it seems that no computer can play it today. According to the benchmarks on the tech sites, the most powerful quad core processors lag badly with it. Is that still true now? Did the numerous patches do anything?

Again, I see that the fanboys on the forums are shouting down anyone who thinks this game is a resource hog. They are saying that with a mediocre system you can have silky smooth performance because according to them, "they haven't noticed any lag on their system". Can someone here give a second, more impartial opinion.

ive found alot of exploits playing C&C3, its still pretty good though.

ButSupcomis abit lame, Its like TA lifted exactly from 10 years ago with an unnecessary coat of paint which makes it run like 10 years ago. I don't understand the big deal my mate were making about it, i went back to spring after. Theres no point building ur stuff in power/metal saving

I think those benchmarks a little out of date. The forums are probably talking about patch v3251, which has significantly improved performance, especially on single core systems.madrocketeer

Yes, those benchmarks were done a few days before and after the game was released in februrary. So the patches have actually improved performance? That's really good, I'm definitely getting it. Because on those benchmarks every top end PC lagged badly. I do use a dual core system, even the dual core performance has been improved vastly right?

From what I've seen all over the community, the patch did introduce performance improvements on higher-end systems, but not as much as on lower systems. I think it's more raising the floor rather than the ceiling.madrocketeer

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2107342,00.asp

http://www.behardware.com/articles/660-3/supreme-commander-benchmark.html

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=620&p=7

The ceiling is pretty low as well.