Something bothering me about the ME3 ending (MAJOR SPOILERS INSIDE)

The supposed Renegade one that is. You probably would want to watch this before continuingME3 Indoctrination Theory & DLC "Ending" Proof - YouTube

OK so I beat ME3 and chose the [RED] ending and noticed at the end, assuming the indoctrination theory is true with Shepard that he lives while partially buried under rubble. It is thought that he never actually made it to the citadel and everything after he is hit with Harbinger'sbeam is just in his head, an effect of indoctrination.

So of thats the case we cant accept any ending for face value except the [RED] ending because that is the only ending Shepard survives from. All other endings imply his indoctrination is complete and from what it looks like he turns into a husk. (wild theory of course) and all imply he is hallucenating "unless you chose the [RED] ending and the last part where he is breathing is the only part that isnt a hallucenation".

So if Shepard survives and the current ending isn't real, what do you think actually happens? That seems to be a question no body is asking.

Um...the Extended Cut confirms that the Indoctrination Theory wasn't true (although that was already obvious from the illogicality of it all).
Bioware clearly didn't intend for the ending to be fake. At worst, if that was the intention, then they failed to follow that up with an 'actual' ending, and the trilogy remains incomplete.

As for Shepard surviving the Red Ending...why would that indicate him breaking free of indoctrination?

It's the default ending that you get for failing to prepare the galaxy against the Reapers, so there wouldn't be much sense in that being the ending where you best resist the Reapers. Moreover, if you're in that situation, it's the only ending that the Starchild encourages Shepard to take...so why would the Reapers encourage Shepard to resist them? It makes no sense.

If Bioware had gone with the indoctrination theory the ending would have been way more interesting, with one of the best twists in games ever and probably would have collected a lot of praise. Cataclism

Wouldn't that have just confirmed that the Mass Effect trilogy was a one-trick pony?

Big plot twist of Mass Effect 1: Saren was indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 2: The Protheans were indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 3: Shepard was indoctrinated!

Extended cut actually disproved Indoctrination Theory. It was a cool theory, but it was a bit far out and semi predictable, kind of a shame since I liked it and I went with Destroy (I was Paragon, but it seemed like the right way to eliminate the thread and leave room for hope and sentient potential to avoid restarting the cycle), but extended cut does a better job of explaining things and making everything fit.

Good god the whining has started...zzzzz

There is no indoctrination, just some delusional fans, that last part is just pathetic fan service which Bioware brilliantly included since this worst ending after the new one, the 4th which is absolutely terrible, was considered the "perfect" ending.

I don't get why people jumped to conclusions about indoctrination, it was obvious they only made that effect to show the amount of willpower Shepard had, that he couldn't be corrupted, he resisted indoctrination, I never understood why everyone whined about the previous endings yet they invented this terrible theory that doesn't make sense and makes Shep, your precious player that you shaped through 3 games, look like a pathetic loser.

The new endings were actually pretty decent. They made more sense and offered some closure. I'm actually pretty satisfied with Bioware at this point. They screwed up but in the end they made it right.

The Indoctrination Theory was lame fanfiction garbage all along. I can't believe anyone thought that crap was true.

Lol no, indoctrination theory was bullsh!t for people who don't want to get it through their skull that BioWare completely dropped the ball on ME3. The whole game is a total mess, the ending was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't like the current endings. The old or the new, especially not the new. If Bioware had gone with the indoctrination theory the ending would have been way more interesting, with one of the best twists in games ever and probably would have collected a lot of praise. Indoctrination theory being true would just be incledibly neat. Instead we get a run-of-the-mill, boring to tears ending...Cataclism

Yes exactly. I think it would have been a great twist for Bioware to show the ending they did, then after the credits start wait like 5 seconds then show Shepard waking up by the Conduit trying to figure out what just happened. Then of coarse that leads into the real ending.

Yes exactly. I think it would have been a great twist for Bioware to show the ending they did, then after the credits start wait like 5 seconds then show Shepard waking up by the Conduit trying to figure out what just happened. Then of coarse that leads into the real ending.

toddx77

Crucible*

Um...the Extended Cut confirms that the Indoctrination Theory wasn't true (although that was already obvious from the illogicality of it all).
Bioware clearly didn't intend for the ending to be fake. At worst, if that was the intention, then they failed to follow that up with an 'actual' ending, and the trilogy remains incomplete.

As for Shepard surviving the Red Ending...why would that indicate him breaking free of indoctrination?

It's the default ending that you get for failing to prepare the galaxy against the Reapers, so there wouldn't be much sense in that being the ending where you best resist the Reapers. Moreover, if you're in that situation, it's the only ending that the Starchild encourages Shepard to take...so why would the Reapers encourage Shepard to resist them? It makes no sense.

[QUOTE="Cataclism"]If Bioware had gone with the indoctrination theory the ending would have been way more interesting, with one of the best twists in games ever and probably would have collected a lot of praise. Planeforger

Wouldn't that have just confirmed that the Mass Effect trilogy was a one-trick pony?

Big plot twist of Mass Effect 1: Saren was indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 2: The Protheans were indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 3: Shepard was indoctrinated!

Really, everything should bother you about the ME3 ending, not just some things.

Wouldn't that have just confirmed that the Mass Effect trilogy was a one-trick pony?

Big plot twist of Mass Effect 1: Saren was indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 2: The Protheans were indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 3: Shepard was indoctrinated!

Planeforger

There is no indoctrination, just some delusional fans, that last part is just pathetic fan service which Bioware brilliantly included since this worst ending after the new one, the 4th which is absolutely terrible, was considered the "perfect" ending.

I don't get why people jumped to conclusions about indoctrination, it was obvious they only made that effect to show the amount of willpower Shepard had, that he couldn't be corrupted, he resisted indoctrination, I never understood why everyone whined about the previous endings yet they invented this terrible theory that doesn't make sense and makes Shep, your precious player that you shaped through 3 games, look like a pathetic loser.

DanielDust

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

Um...the Extended Cut confirms that the Indoctrination Theory wasn't true (although that was already obvious from the illogicality of it all).
Bioware clearly didn't intend for the ending to be fake. At worst, if that was the intention, then they failed to follow that up with an 'actual' ending, and the trilogy remains incomplete.

As for Shepard surviving the Red Ending...why would that indicate him breaking free of indoctrination?

It's the default ending that you get for failing to prepare the galaxy against the Reapers, so there wouldn't be much sense in that being the ending where you best resist the Reapers. Moreover, if you're in that situation, it's the only ending that the Starchild encourages Shepard to take...so why would the Reapers encourage Shepard to resist them? It makes no sense.

[QUOTE="Cataclism"]If Bioware had gone with the indoctrination theory the ending would have been way more interesting, with one of the best twists in games ever and probably would have collected a lot of praise. OmegaRey

Wouldn't that have just confirmed that the Mass Effect trilogy was a one-trick pony?

Big plot twist of Mass Effect 1: Saren was indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 2: The Protheans were indoctrinated!
Big plot twist of Mass Effect 3: Shepard was indoctrinated!

Discovering that the Protheans still existed and were in fact Collectors was a pretty big "Ah ha!" moment.. Though it was heavily hinted if you did a certain random side quest before it..

Wait how would it make Shepard look like a pathetic loser? Do you understand how the indoctrination works? It changes every one no matter how strong they are willpower wise, Matriarch Benzia was a prime example of this.... Not saying I think the indoctrination idea was true, but if anything if it did happen it would illustrate one thing. That Shepard was human, and falliable.. sSubZerOo

Shepard was developed as the most powerful being in the universe for his period, he is the symbol that goes way beyond the human form (for humans), has the will to do anything and face anything for his cause, no matter how dangerous the mission is, even if it might cost him his life, he resisted indoctrination "several" times from the guys that actually indoctrinate stuff, yes, this possibility you're talking about would make him a pathetic loser and it would defy what just happened in all 3 games...why did we even play the ME trilogy?

The Reapers want to control, they always wanted Shepard, but they could never indoctrinate him after "many" attempts (play the game, if you think it only happened with TIM), they however don't want to force, literally, him to just take a gun and shoot his team like TIM did out of desperation, which yet again shows Shepard is not only strong enough to mentally reject the Reaper ideals and will, but strong enough to not be controlled entirely physically even by the strongest Reaper influence possible from the Reaper TIM in the Citadel.

It makes absolutely no sense to think like you do, the hero of the universe kicks ass, as terrible as it was, the entire level, he kills a Reaper by himself (Reaper as in, those like Sovereign) when an army can't stop such a thing, then in the final moments of his life and mission he just gets controlled by the enemy and GG, game over, goodbye, even assuming there might be a chance is absolutely....I have no words for this, it's by far the worst twist in anything ever and if this comes from a person that cares about the ME lore, what were you thinking? you don't like the ending of ME 3, but you like this theory that invalidates the entire trilogy...what?

If you want a terrible story, made exactly for people that create this nonsense in the first place, Bioware made the 4th ending for you, it fits the indoctrination theory.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Wait how would it make Shepard look like a pathetic loser? Do you understand how the indoctrination works? It changes every one no matter how strong they are willpower wise, Matriarch Benzia was a prime example of this.... Not saying I think the indoctrination idea was true, but if anything if it did happen it would illustrate one thing. That Shepard was human, and falliable.. DanielDust

Shepard was developed as the most powerful being in the universe for his period, he is the symbol that goes way beyond the human form (for humans), has the will to do anything and face anything for his cause, no matter how dangerous the mission is, even if it might cost him his life, he resisted indoctrination "several" times from the guys that actually indoctrinate stuff, yes, this possibility you're talking about would make him a pathetic loser and it would defy what just happened in all 3 games...why did we even play the ME trilogy?

The Reapers want to control, they always wanted Shepard, but they could never indoctrinate him after "many" attempts (play the game, if you think it only happened with TIM), they however don't want to force, literally, him to just take a gun and shoot his team like TIM did out of desperation, which yet again shows Shepard is not only strong enough to mentally reject the Reaper ideals and will, but strong enough to not be controlled entirely physically even by the strongest Reaper influence possible from the Reaper TIM in the Citadel.

It makes absolutely no sense to think like you do, the hero of the universe kicks ass, as terrible as it was, the entire level, he kills a Reaper by himself (Reaper as in, those like Sovereign) when an army can't stop him, then in the final moments of his life and mission he just gets controlled by the enemy and GG, game over, goodbye, even assuming there might be a chance is absolutely....I have no words for this, it's by far the worst twist in anything ever and if this comes from a person that cares about the ME lore, what were you thinking? you don't like the ending of ME 3, but you like this theory that invalidates the entire trilogy...what?

If you want a terrible story, made exactly for people that create this nonsense in the first place, Bioware made the 4th ending for you, it fits the indoctrination theory.

Yeah, even though I thought it was plausible (and was ok with it), its been completely shut down and the extended cut makes a lot more sense of what happened.

Shepard just has too much willpower, I mean he completely resisted Morinth's advances in ME2 (unless the player themselves went out of their way to bone her after the suicide mission) and survived because of it, and he was able to resist various indoctrination attempts. He really is the badass guy capable of being worthy of starting the catalyst, but I do have a problem with just how implausible it is that he could survive the catalyst explosion and make it through to the teleport beam when everyone around him dies, but still even if it did add some credence to the indoctrination theory, its pretty much impossible as of the new ending and with Bioware's stance, and the extended cut really did fix the issues I think I had with it.