Stop it, you're killing the industry!

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darkane331

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#1 darkane331
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts

Ok maybe i'm just an opinionated b*****d who hates casual gamers with a passion but this isn't about casual gamers, or pirates (though £30 for a game aint that bad if you think of it, depends how good the game is...BUY THEM YOU CHEAPSKATES) or even recycled versions of games which should remain and unspoiled and classic, when I say the industry I mean the PC game industry and when I say you're I mean the company. That's right the companies that make games are very much to blame for the reason that the PC gamers are dying out.

Ok sure, consoles are easier to mantain, the hardwares less confusing and too be honest I prefer a gamepad in a lot of games, and I do own a console, I own several but I like to have a choice in PC games as well and the reason why is simple, I want to be able to mod the game, I want to be able to build in weapons that not only look cool but add to the gameplay experience rather then just whacking in a 999999999 damage infinite ammo rocket launcher I want to make things that are cool and I want other people to be able to share that.

So why is it so few PC games nowadays allow mods? A modding community is the strong backbone of a games community, get bored of the

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Revolution_DDM

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#3 Revolution_DDM
Member since 2005 • 274 Posts

Plenty of games still allow modding, not sure what you're referring to.

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darkane331

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#4 darkane331
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts

Plenty of games still allow modding, not sure what you're referring to.

Revolution_DDM

Lost Planet
Mass Effect
Red Faction Guirella
Bioshock (Who wouldn't want to see a co-op mod)
Dead Space
Alone in the Dark (Hell a mod community could have modded the suck out of that game)
Assasin's Creed (God i'd kill to mod that one)

Modding allows a game so much more life for the player and yet so many choose to try and lock you out.

Now the ones that do let you mod, and deserve praise,

UT3
Left 4 Dead
Team Fortress 2 (It's just a map editor but still)
Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it looks)
COD 4

P.S Hey, I own a console! given it's barely in use for anything other then the occasional blast of Vegas 2.

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wkd1982

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#5 wkd1982
Member since 2009 • 85 Posts

Plenty of games still allow modding, not sure what you're referring to.

Revolution_DDM
Modding is different to piracy and piracy is a damn criminal offence.
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Mazoch

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#6 Mazoch
Member since 2004 • 2473 Posts

While not all games are build with a specific player facing API or some other interface to make modding easy, there's nothing but your own ability that prevents you from modding other games.

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johnny27

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#7 johnny27
Member since 2006 • 4400 Posts
Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it looksdarkane331
crysis is an awesome game defiantly one of my favorites i'm not sure if where playing the same game!
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polarwrath11

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#8 polarwrath11
Member since 2006 • 1676 Posts
[QUOTE="darkane331"]Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it looksjohnny27
crysis is an awesome game defiantly one of my favorites i'm not sure if where playing the same game!

Don't like it that much either! Graphics are awsome but the gameplay isn't very good.
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quijeros

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#9 quijeros
Member since 2008 • 1728 Posts

[QUOTE="johnny27"][QUOTE="darkane331"]Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it lookspolarwrath11
crysis is an awesome game defiantly one of my favorites i'm not sure if where playing the same game!

Don't like it that much either! Graphics are awsome but the gameplay isn't very good.

I used to think it wasn't very fun, but now that I actually have enough memory to play through the whole thing :P, I've put more hours into it and it's starting to really grow on me. Maybe it's because I just tried to run and gun before, but now that I have it on the hardest difficulty, I have to be more tactful.

I agree with the TC, though. Modding adds a lot of extra content to the game and gives you more than your money's worth. I, myself, am eagerly waiting for the MW:LL Crysis conversion mod.

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DanielDust

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#10 DanielDust
Member since 2007 • 15402 Posts

[QUOTE="Revolution_DDM"]

Plenty of games still allow modding, not sure what you're referring to.

wkd1982
Modding is different to piracy and piracy is a damn criminal offence.

Huh?

Anyway, modding is great, but not just any game would have anything worth modding.

Sure I want mods and all but about your list:

Lost Planet, it's just one of those games in which modding makes no sense

Mass Effect, again I don't really see what you could mod here, except some models (which exist)

Red Faction, again, a game that wouldn't be better with mods, since you don't really have what to add to it

Bioshock, you don't just mod online features, far-fetched to say the least

Dead Space, nothing you could to with modding

Alone In the Dark....does not exist, I won't comment on a game that I don't acknowledge

Assassin's Creed...you'd kill for a mod but what mod would that be since I see absolutely nothing that can make it a better game....remember mods are small modifications on a smaller or larger scale they don't just make you a totally new game or something better of the same, I don't see what would make AC better, nothing, not even a skin

CoD 4 has maps and some game modes, it's a shame not many play them, but that's a pretty bad example of a game with mods since, those mods are fun but imo they aren't better than the standard game

Maybe you expect something from them, I don't know, or maybe you have some great ideas, that even if it had modding capabilities I doubt anyone would start working on them, but I personally don't see a reason for these games to have modding tools.

Games that could use mods have some modding tools, games like:

Oblivion

Fallout

UT3 (it needed mods, because no matter how you look at it, the UT series doesn't have such a dedicated community just because it's a great game, no UT was as good as UT 99' but modding capabilities compensated)

L4D, CS: S, DoD: S, TF 2, Portal are more of the same, because of the source engine, you can do weapons, skins, game modes, maps, new games, etc...this is pretty much the best example for games that have a reason for making mods.

Crysis, it's not that you have many options but it's fun to mess around with it, or you can do what Crytek did only better (artisticaly) Neverwinter Nights/NWN2 puts mods to good use.

Any GTA game, lots to add there, lots to experience

X3 how to fill all that space? easy mods, new ships, stations, etc

Warcraft 3

Empire: Total War, I can see lots of mods for it, and extremely ambitious ones

Console games are just too different, they feel too different and they work in a way, different, making mods for most of them would be a waste of time since they won't be that appreciated and they'll be forgotten pretty fast. Just look at your list, not a single PC game (one that had a dedicated PC version, not a version adapted to consoles), all multiplats.

Anyway, I want to tell you another thing, no game is impossible to mod, not a single one. All the games that you listed, if you want to believe it or not, are games that people consider a waste of time and moding won't bring them any personal satisfaction. ME has some mods, you probably don't even know about them, most don't know, people don't care about mods for such a game, and the others are totally not worth it since their players don't stick much around them, so the ones that would start a mod will lose their interest.

So, any game can be modded, but there are some factors that influence that...do I really want to waste my time to make a mod for this game? is it worth all the trouble? would anyone play it? will there still be players after I finish the mod? do people want mods for this game? would a mod make any difference to the game? All the games you listed are pretty much dead, Lost Planet, never had many fans, now 2 will be released, ME it's great for single player, the main quest but after somebody played the secondary quests, they wanted to get away from it fast, and there is a 2 which, form what they say, fixes all of ME's problems and is a much better game, Bioshock decent, bad from de middle, there is a 2, people forgot after they played it and most compare it to SS 2 all day, because that's what cool people do ( :/ ), AitD......AC, the games was great, but so boring after the 4th assassination that most wouldn't care about finishing it...mods? they would probably be enraged.

No modder in his right mind would waste time on trying to figure out how to mod them and make mods, there would hardly be any mods, if any, even if they had a SDK.

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longello

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#11 longello
Member since 2009 • 155 Posts

Don't know what you are talking about - PC games are not dying and just about all PC games have some sort of modding ability.... just look at Morrowind and GTA for example.

Rant fail.

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RiseAgainst12

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#12 RiseAgainst12
Member since 2007 • 6767 Posts

soo wait console gamers are killing the industry?

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Dr_Brocoli

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#13 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts

Ok maybe i'm just an opinionated b*****d who hates casual gamers with a passion but this isn't about casual gamers, or pirates (though £30 for a game aint that bad if you think of it, depends how good the game is...BUY THEM YOU CHEAPSKATES) or even recycled versions of games which should remain and unspoiled and classic, when I say the industry I mean the PC game industry and when I say you're I mean the company. That's right the companies that make games are very much to blame for the reason that the PC gamers are dying out.

Ok sure, consoles are easier to mantain, the hardwares less confusing and too be honest I prefer a gamepad in a lot of games, and I do own a console, I own several but I like to have a choice in PC games as well and the reason why is simple, I want to be able to mod the game, I want to be able to build in weapons that not only look cool but add to the gameplay experience rather then just whacking in a 999999999 damage infinite ammo rocket launcher I want to make things that are cool and I want other people to be able to share that.

So why is it so few PC games nowadays allow mods? A modding community is the strong backbone of a games community, get bored of the darkane331

Cause its engines that support modding. and there are PLENTY! Source is one, unreal(red orchestra is a gret example!) is another, Total war series, battlefield series. Conclusion: you are blind there are engines you can mod EVERYWHERE and there are TONS of games.
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denter21

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#14 denter21
Member since 2003 • 1283 Posts
Blog it. Wait no, don't even blog this.
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Gladestone1

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#15 Gladestone1
Member since 2004 • 5695 Posts

Only reason programmers are using piracy as a excuse is because..More people can affoard the xbox360 rather than a top of the line pc..Now all these companies can make a dragon age on the console, an rake in more cash..In my eyes piracy is just a excuse for these devs..If you look at the big picture..Games have sold very well on the xbox of late..So they see this as a cash cow..Its a business an thats all it is..If you where them you would think the same thing..If i can make such an such ammount of cash on the xbox why not do it.Now dont get me wrong i love my pc an always will..Im buying dragon age origins for the pc..Guess what it still will maximize the best graphics..Mods will be plentiful for this game..Also games like diablo 3 will be pc exclusive which i love..Torchlight pc only..

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tony2077ca

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#16 tony2077ca
Member since 2005 • 5242 Posts

soo wait console gamers are killing the industry?

RiseAgainst12
i play on the console and i don't think we are
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Macutchi

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#17 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 11217 Posts


Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it looks)

darkane331

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Twinfun2

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#18 Twinfun2
Member since 2006 • 41 Posts

That's right the companies that make games are very much to blame for the reason that the PC gamers are dying out.

darkane331

What on earth are you talking about...

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HenriH-42

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#19 HenriH-42
Member since 2007 • 2113 Posts

So, mods huh? Tbh, I don't really care about mods anymore. I used to care a lot more when I was younger and wasn't able to afford as many games, mods do add more value to the game I agree. But these days I have more games than I have time to play, so I'd rather just beat a game and move on to the next one (I do replay the games that I really like.) The only games I have that have mods installed are Stalker, Morrowind, Oblivion and fan missions for Thief 1 & 2. The rest? Nah, unless fanpatches count.

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thekodaman

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#20 thekodaman
Member since 2006 • 1733 Posts

Only reason programmers are using piracy as a excuse is because..More people can affoard the xbox360 rather than a top of the line pc..Now all these companies can make a dragon age on the console, an rake in more cash..In my eyes piracy is just a excuse for these devs..If you look at the big picture..Games have sold very well on the xbox of late..So they see this as a cash cow..Its a business an thats all it is..If you where them you would think the same thing..If i can make such an such ammount of cash on the xbox why not do it.Now dont get me wrong i love my pc an always will..Im buying dragon age origins for the pc..Guess what it still will maximize the best graphics..Mods will be plentiful for this game..Also games like diablo 3 will be pc exclusive which i love..Torchlight pc only..

Gladestone1

This. Piracy is a genuine concern for smaller developers though take World of Goo for example, this game had no DRM and had a 90% piracy rate even though it was half normal retail price for a game (about £20 in the UK). Developers like EA and their ilk however have indeed used as a lame excuse to rip off customers by jacking up their prices to astronomical levels all to maintain their laughably high profit margins. To put it this way, why should we feel guilty for pirating a game when purchasing it can result in you not being able to play it because of stupid, bad DRM (i.e. SecuROM) and having all your rights save for your right to return within 7 days stripped away from you in the license agreement, effectively leaving you at the most gracious developer's mercy should you ever need a replacement disk or a new CD Key.

Give us fair rights (e.g. Steam) then you can have all remaining pirates shot if you will but until then they're sort of justified in a large number of cases, particularly with EA games.

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RobertBowen

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#21 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

Ok maybe i'm just an opinionated b*****d who hates casual gamers with a passion but this isn't about casual gamers, or pirates (though £30 for a game aint that bad if you think of it, depends how good the game is...BUY THEM YOU CHEAPSKATES) or even recycled versions of games which should remain and unspoiled and classic, when I say the industry I mean the PC game industry and when I say you're I mean the company. That's right the companies that make games are very much to blame for the reason that the PC gamers are dying out.

darkane331

- Don't know why you hate casual gamers, because everyone has a right to play games that suit their particular needs. Not everyone likes 'hardcore' games. My wife certainly doesn't.
- You say that some games should remain 'unspoiled', yet your big beef is that you can't mod some games? Hmm...some contradiction there.
- Piracy, yes it's an issue and it's been debated to death, but I don't think anything is going to change. Telling pirates to buy their games is going to achieve precisely nothing.
- I don't see any PC gamers dying out, unless it's from old age. There's a vast back catalogue of PC games to suit every gamer's needs, so even if PC game development stopped tomorrow (which it certainly won't), you can still be a PC gamer for the next 20 or 30 years just on the back of the thousands of games already released.

Ok sure, consoles are easier to mantain, the hardwares less confusing and too be honest I prefer a gamepad in a lot of games, and I do own a console, I own several but I like to have a choice in PC games as well and the reason why is simple, I want to be able to mod the game, I want to be able to build in weapons that not only look cool but add to the gameplay experience rather then just whacking in a 999999999 damage infinite ammo rocket launcher I want to make things that are cool and I want other people to be able to share that.

So why is it so few PC games nowadays allow mods?

darkane331

Okay, so show me all these hundreds of PC games over the past 20 years that encouraged you, or even allowed you, to mod them so easily. The simple fact is that the vast majority of games have never encouraged modding. Yes, some nifty programmers have found various ways over the years to get around some of the obstacles and add some additional functionality or enhance graphics or even issue community patches for some older games, but it was hard to do without an SDK. Most of the time PC games don't come with mod tools.

The number of games that actively encourage modding has always been small, and I haven't noticed some rapid drop in recent years. A lot depends on the engine, of course, but the Doom/Quake tech, Unreal, Source and now Crytek engine games have always been much more open to modding, so you should probably focus your attention there. Other games like the Elder Scrolls series (which uses Gamebryo since Morrowind), Neverwinter Nights series, and some others have also traditionally encouraged mods (coming with extensive mod tools and construction sets).

So 'closed' games are, in fact, the norm and will continue to make up the majority of the market, because of the potential problems and pitfalls that might arise (breaking the game) when installing mods. Maybe you just don't like some of the games being made with these more mod-friendly engines, nowadays. Certainly the latest Id tech (since DOOM 3) have seen far fewer licensees than in the days of their Quake tech. Valve more actively encourages the mod community for their engine, and even plumbs the depths of that community for more raw talent. I don't see Bethesda dropping their mod-friendliness any time soon either.

My best advice to you is find out which games are made using some of the engines listed, and try modding some of those games. There are plenty of Unreal Engine 3.0 games around, for sure. But you're probably going to hit a brick wall with less well-known and specialised in-house engines.

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denter21

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#22 denter21
Member since 2003 • 1283 Posts
RobertBowen wins the thread.
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Koala911

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#23 Koala911
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts

i cant be bothered reading the long message. U heard ofBF 1942 of BF2 they have the the epicest mods

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darkane331

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#24 darkane331
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts

Cause its engines that support modding. and there are PLENTY! Source is one, unreal(red orchestra is a gret example!) is another, Total war series, battlefield series. Conclusion: you are blind there are engines you can mod EVERYWHERE and there are TONS of games.Dr_Brocoli

I don't want an engine that supports modding, they're brilliant and if I was looking at building a full conversion mod they'd be really useful, my point is there are games like Red Faction and Lost Planet where mod tools could increase the life of the online multiplayer, not even mod tools, something simple like a map editor or something and yet there are so many games that choose not to have a map editor and even go as far as to prevent you dicking around with the engine to make a map editor. Lets say Mass Effect for example it isn't multiplayer no but biowares other game that kept me amused for hours was Neverwinter Nights, now while I love Mass Effect and have gotten over 48 hours playtime out of it somehow if it were to include a Neverwinter Nights-esque editor, even one which just lets you make space station or something like that it'd be so much more in the levels of kick ass, being able to build your own levels, whack them online and download other's it's not a neccesity and it's clear that Mass Effect's development time was well spent but it's mod tools, level editors and the likes that make games last that bit extra and make them that much more worth the £30 or £40 you pay for them and there is quite a few games that get released without any support or editors or mod tools, it's not something that needs to be put in but it's something that more companies should look at doing, User created content can improve almost any game, and if you don't like it you don't have to play it.

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lpjazzman220

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#25 lpjazzman220
Member since 2008 • 2249 Posts

[QUOTE="darkane331"]
Crysis (Though the actual game blows, no matter how nice it looks)

Macutchi

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wOOOOOOw......that took me awhile to get....i feel stupid.....that is the best thing ive seen all day........i laughed my *** off.