TF2 or Fortress Forever?

If I hadn't played TFC for 8 years I would say FF.

But since I've worn out that game, TF2 is more fun to me right now because it's different. Very different.

One thing I like about FF is that each class is fun to play. I don't find myself picking a favorite class...ever. In TF2 it's a totally different story. The Scout is the only class in TF2 that I enjoy playing...but I have so much fun playing as a scout that it makes up for the lack of weapons/nades/abilities that all of the other classes suffer from.

haven't played TF2 but i have played FF and i gotta say i'm not that impressed. to me it just seemed like chaos. everything was flying around and exploding. i could hardly see the enemy long enough to get a shot off before i was blown up by one of the 50 rockets/grenades going off. maybe i just got in some bad servers filled with rocket noobs; either way, the first impression wasn't enough to keep me coming back. to each, his own.marklar123

I'll assume you didn't play or like TFC then either. That is the gameplay that attracts the TF fans. It takes 3 seconds from death to getting back into action, and you can really wipe the floor with a lot of people if you are having a good day. Awesome.

If I hadn't played TFC for 8 years I would say FF.

But since I've worn out that game, TF2 is more fun to me right now because it's different. Very different.

One thing I like about FF is that each class is fun to play. I don't find myself picking a favorite class...ever. In TF2 it's a totally different story. The Scout is the only class in TF2 that I enjoy playing...but I have so much fun playing as a scout that it makes up for the lack of weapons/nades/abilities that all of the other classes suffer from.

D9-THC

How do the classes in TF2 compare with TFC? Between TF and TFC I probably played 8-10 years myself and I have been waiting for a replacement ever since. I know they took grenades from almost every class, which has it's good and bad, but I'm wondering if it has the fun factor and staying power of TFC.

If I hadn't played TFC for 8 years I would say FF.

But since I've worn out that game, TF2 is more fun to me right now because it's different. Very different.

One thing I like about FF is that each class is fun to play. I don't find myself picking a favorite class...ever. In TF2 it's a totally different story. The Scout is the only class in TF2 that I enjoy playing...but I have so much fun playing as a scout that it makes up for the lack of weapons/nades/abilities that all of the other classes suffer from.

D9-THC

Lack of abilities, weapons, nades of other classes? The scout lacks these as much as any other classes. You move fast, double jump, have a bat and a shotgun. Those are all your abilities and weapons.

Well I guess the thing with TF2 is that every class has a VERY specific role. A sniper in TF2 will get owned over and over if he tries to advance. In fact...snipers in TF2 just get owned over and over regardless of what they're doing.

In TFC/FF it's possible to be an offensive sniper if you know what you're doing.

I'm a run and gun, deathmatch style player so the scout in TF2 fits me perfectly. I NEVER used the scout in TFC or FF because I would usually be a medic/eng/sniper/demo/soldier and use the shotgun along with whatever else I had. The medic no longer has any offensive ability except for melee (that needle gun is a joke) and of course no more nades so he has lost a lot of agility. The demoman has nothing except for nade launchers now (no detpack, nades, shotgun...nothing). All classes have lost about half of their abilities. But since it's beta I'm thinking they're going to add more weapons and hopefully nades in a later release.

And by the way...there are no grenades period in TF2...NONE.

It's a great game...don't get me wrong...it's just very different from TFC.

Lack of abilities, weapons, nades of other classes? The scout lacks these as much as any other classes. You move fast, double jump, have a bat and a shotgun. Those are all your abilities and weapons.

VooDooPC

Don't forget the pistol...I snipe with the pistol...

Well I guess the thing with TF2 is that every class has a VERY specific role. A sniper in TF2 will get owned over and over if he tries to advance. In fact...snipers in TF2 just get owned over and over regardless of what they're doing.

In TFC/FF it's possible to be an offensive sniper if you know what you're doing.

I'm a run and gun, deathmatch style player so the scout in TF2 fits me perfectly. I NEVER used the scout in TFC or FF because I would usually be a medic/eng/sniper/demo/soldier and use the shotgun along with whatever else I had. The medic no longer has any offensive ability except for melee (that needle gun is a joke) and of course no more nades so he has lost a lot of agility. The demoman has nothing except for nade launchers now (no detpack, nades, shotgun...nothing). All classes have lost about half of their abilities. But since it's beta I'm thinking they're going to add more weapons and hopefully nades in a later release.

And by the way...there are no grenades period in TF2...NONE.

It's a great game...don't get me wrong...it's just very different from TFC.

D9-THC

geeze... TF2 sounds kind of... lame

Fortress Forever is pro. I'm sick of all these newbies giving it crap "it's too chaotic". Boo hoo. Go to a server with less people, capture the flag is SUPPOSED to be chaotic. If you're not impressed, then I don't see why you'd be impressed with TF2. They are too similar.

EDIT: I'd almost prefer Fortress Forever because I love the maps. It has Dustbowl. That TF2 don't have nuthin. FF does everything TF2 does but betta.

Wow i'm surprised so many people don't like TF2, the game absolutely rocks in my opinion, way better than FF!

Check out my blog for my review on TF2, it pretty much explains how i feel about it.

TF2:

People often blame consoles for dumbing down PC games, which is true in some cases, but what's really doing it is mass market. Games are big buisness and need to appeal to lots of people. Online MP games also need to be accessible, and as a result of that they get dumbed down. This game should be called something other than TF because it has the same cla$$es and that's it, where's the bunnyjumping? Where's the speed in the game? What's with the respawn timer?

It'll be a success and lots of people will play it, but it's not what fans of the old TFs would've liked and it's ruining my faith in the game industry, there's too much money involved to make hardcore games nowadays :&

edit: here's what you can't do in TF2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaRpW64A5aU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1M3UDpoz5c

You can't even change your FOV dammit!

Pfffttt... TF2 all the way.

I can't even run FF without it crashing/freezing. So I don't know.solidsnakeEx3

Its the other way around for me. I can't run TF2 without it freezing or crashing. I get a crash/freeze everyone in a while with FF, but not enough to keep me from having put alot of time into it already.

FF is great fun if you liked TFC, and makes alot of improvements. Unfortunatly I don't think they made enough improvements to balance out offense and defense completly, and like TFC, defense still has a bit of an advantage.

FortressForever was released at a ridiculous stupid time as not long after its full release TF2 BETA was released. And to be honest TF2 is far better than FF in many ways, its just a shame the FF guys released it so close to the TF2 BETA. I could of done with FF months back when i was getting interested in TF2.1005

FF announced their release date before Valve did, Valve then went ahead and annouced that the TF2 beta would be avalible the same day as FF, and FF rushed to release their game.

It is dumbed down, maybe you like it better that way, but it doesn't change the reality of things

Not being a TF player, I don't really care for TF2 or the orange box as a whole. I played FF, though, and from what I've seen, it's very TFC-ish (not that I ever played TFC too much). Overall it's a very well done mod, although not being a fan of TF, I wouldn't say it's awesome great fun.

The whole situation reminds me somewhat of Tribes: Vengeance, though. Old, more complicated game, and a new, dumbed down one.

What I hear is a bunch of "TF2 is better" but nothing to back that statement up. I'm curious WHY it is better or more fun. I know one argument was "no more grenade spam" which is a valid point, although grenade spam had its plusses as well. What else makes TF2 better than FF or TFC? It seems like a dumbed-down version of a great game. I'm hoping that isn't the case because I loved TFC and I am hoping for another fully supported game that will keep me happy another 8 years like TF and TFC did.weirjf

Well touche, all I hear about FF being better is the old school TF players from the last decade whining about how dumbed down the new version is.

EDIT: I never played the old TF in its prime so I don't have any fondness for it. But having played both FF and TF2, I find TF2 to be more fun, more immersive and easier to get into.

What I hear is a bunch of "TF2 is better" but nothing to back that statement up. I'm curious WHY it is better or more fun. I know one argument was "no more grenade spam" which is a valid point, although grenade spam had its plusses as well. What else makes TF2 better than FF or TFC? It seems like a dumbed-down version of a great game. I'm hoping that isn't the case because I loved TFC and I am hoping for another fully supported game that will keep me happy another 8 years like TF and TFC did.weirjf

Yeah it allows a weaker team to bring the game to a stalemate through a wall of grenades which isn't very fair to the guys that have their act together. Also without grenades, the demoman is now actually useful.

On top of this, there are additional improvements:

The kill cam, you can see who the heck killed you so you can get him back and get a revenge kill (which are worth more than regular kills).

Persistent stats, the game tells you how well you are doing and how you have improved over the games.

and so fourth

Not being a TF player, I don't really care for TF2 or the orange box as a whole. I played FF, though, and from what I've seen, it's very TFC-ish (not that I ever played TFC too much). Overall it's a very well done mod, although not being a fan of TF, I wouldn't say it's awesome great fun.

The whole situation reminds me somewhat of Tribes: Vengeance, though. Old, more complicated game, and a new, dumbed down one.

dar_

I think dumbed down is a wrong term.. They have made the gaem far more team orientated as a whole.. Where a good soldier can't single handedly destroy another team.. Where a team has to clear from a scout running by so he doesn't drop grenades, where medics are actually useful as healers instead of concussion jumpers for flag caps.. In the end the classes are way more defined as a whole..

I am sorry I just can't take people seriouslly that want the old grenades back where most of the time they just were constantly spammed.. Where people had scripts where when they died they dropped a grenade which half the itme killed you if you were close.. TF2 is more true to the TEAM aspect then TFC ever was where team work together is very important more so then any game/map I have played in TFC..

TF2. I played the old TFC for years when it was released with the original Half-Life and I have to say TF2 is better than FF. Despite some problems (only six maps, no det packs or destroyable terrain, only 2 weapons per class) I think the gameplay is more fun. Some of these issues (that I wouldn't even call problems) actually add to the game since it differientiates the classes more. And like some one said the grenade thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Every class shouldn't have explosive its makes it too chaotic and allows newbs to barricade themselves somewhere and hold the last command point and bring it to a stalemate.

If I had a choice it would be TF2, I preordered the Orange Box just to play it early and I am not dissapointed in the slightest. The gameplay is fun, the classes are well balanced, the maps that we have are fun and if not varried, the game modes make them interesting. And one things people need to understand is that this is a BETA it is not the end release. They will likely fix any bugs they find in the next few weeks and add new abilities.

EDIT: The post right above this sums it up very nicely. I agree on all points.

I am sorry I just can't take people seriouslly that want the old grenades back where most of the time they just were constantly spammed.. Where people had scripts where when they died they dropped a grenade which half the itme killed you if you were close.. TF2 is more true to the TEAM aspect then TFC ever was where team work together is very important more so then any game/map I have played in TFC..sSubZerOo

Scripts = I agree

Spamming? That was map-specific and wasn't as much of an issue as some people seem to think. The complaints were 99% based on 2-fort where there was a choke point and people were too lazy to take the water passage. They should have limited each class to 1 grenade of each type, but they had their purpose. Nail grenades, MiRVs, caltropsand pyro grenades had a strong strategic purpose in hallways and choke points. Regular grenades were useful for people who would hide around the same corners or "peek and shoot". It was in no way a game-breaking component ( and there was always a pattern of people complaining about grenade spam and being on the bottom of the list with high death totals).

I hope that TF2 doesn't create an environment where skilled individuals can't turn the tide and alwaysrequires teamwork. Forcing a team mechanic with the wide variety of skill levels out there never makes a consistentlyfun game unless you are in a clan.

Someone give me an example of a good run at the flag resulting in a cap in TF2. How many people, what classes, and who was doing what to make is successful. How did they change the classes to offset the fewer skills and grenades (IE, how do you handle a sniper you cannot reach, or a heavy guarding a hallway?).

Thank you all for your responses.

And one things people need to understand is that this is a BETA it is not the end release. They will likely fix any bugs they find in the next few weeks and add new abilities.

SerOlmy

Yeah, that is painfully obvious. I cannot even run the game because it crashes on load(first time since Unreal in the late 90s I have a game that doesn't run right). I pre-ordered to play the beta, so I am fishing for info until it gets fixed and I can play it myself. :)

Well for the capture the flag (or information as it now is called) the best is usually a spy since they can get in and deal with the engis that are usually guarding the flag room while a heavy and demo or soldier deal with the defenses on his way out. But I have seen a good team of a demoman (myself) soldier medic and scout grab it several times. As for dealling with a heavy guarding a hallway you deal with him like you always do, get a good demo or a soldier and blow his medic to hell then rip him appart. A couple grenade in the face is more than sufficient. Unless the heavy is invul, actually, three direct grenade hits will kill them flat out regardless of wether they are getting healing or not.

As for the more team based dynamic (which I think makes it way more fun since everyone has a purpose), skill level isn't that big an issue (unless they suck bad enough that they shouldn't even be playing). Most people who know what they are doing have mikes and if you can hear, then you can follow directions. I don't claim to be the best, I am consistently in the middle of the pack, but the difference between silence on voice and 2 or 3 people calling out placement, sniper or spy locations, or which direction in which to push can usually turn the tide of the game.

Well for the capture the flag (or information as it now is called) the best is usually a spy since they can get in and deal with the engis that are usually guarding the flag room while a heavy and demo or soldier deal with the defenses on his way out. But I have seen a good team of a demoman (myself) soldier medic and scout grab it several times. As for dealling with a heavy guarding a hallway you deal with him like you always do, get a good demo or a soldier and blow his medic to hell then rip him appart. A couple grenade in the face is more than sufficient. Unless the heavy is invul, actually, three direct grenade hits will kill them flat out regardless of wether they are getting healing or not.

As for the more team based dynamic (which I think makes it way more fun since everyone has a purpose), skill level isn't that big an issue (unless they suck bad enough that they shouldn't even be playing). Most people who know what they are doing have mikes and if you can hear, then you can follow directions. I don't claim to be the best, I am consistently in the middle of the pack, but the difference between silence on voice and 2 or 3 people calling out placement, sniper or spy locations, or which direction in which to push can usually turn the tide of the game.

SerOlmy

Would it be fair to say that TF2 has more of a "rock paper scissors" play on FPS?

TF2 may be a good game in its own right, but you can help but compare it to the gameplay of the original QWTF/TFC. It's extremely different from those 2 games, so I think people's disappointment from a TFC perspective is justified.

Stuff like removing bunnyjumping sucks because it removes skill from the game. Same with conc-jumping.

TF2 is more casual oriented which is good for sales, and bad for hardcore people. Commercial MP games have gone downhill since Q3/UT99

Not really. Some classes are better at taking out others, but any skilled player who knows their class ussually has a fighting chance one on one. Its just that classes are more specialized in terms of weapons and abilities in TF2. Make no mistake, skill is at least half the battle, but teamwork is a good portion now too. Like someone said a massively good soldier can do alot of damage and will live a good long time, but they can't singlehandedly destroy the other team any more. I think TF2 is way more balanced the FF as is should be. In one sense it actually requires more skill in that, not every class has grenades any more so simple running by and dropping a handful or spamming them around a hallway does not apply. You have to outmanuever your opponents, which is way more fun IMO.SerOlmy

I'm actually really glad to hear that. I was excited about TF2, but all of the feedback was really killing the mood. I think your description definately shows me a game worth playing.

[QUOTE="SerOlmy"]

Well for the capture the flag (or information as it now is called) the best is usually a spy since they can get in and deal with the engis that are usually guarding the flag room while a heavy and demo or soldier deal with the defenses on his way out. But I have seen a good team of a demoman (myself) soldier medic and scout grab it several times. As for dealling with a heavy guarding a hallway you deal with him like you always do, get a good demo or a soldier and blow his medic to hell then rip him appart. A couple grenade in the face is more than sufficient. Unless the heavy is invul, actually, three direct grenade hits will kill them flat out regardless of wether they are getting healing or not.

As for the more team based dynamic (which I think makes it way more fun since everyone has a purpose), skill level isn't that big an issue (unless they suck bad enough that they shouldn't even be playing). Most people who know what they are doing have mikes and if you can hear, then you can follow directions. I don't claim to be the best, I am consistently in the middle of the pack, but the difference between silence on voice and 2 or 3 people calling out placement, sniper or spy locations, or which direction in which to push can usually turn the tide of the game.

weirjf

Would it be fair to say that TF2 has more of a "rock paper scissors" play on FPS?

No not really rock paper scissors because in the end you can sitll kill every one else, its depends on your job.. For instance a sniper is still going to be able to kill eveyr one just in the situation of long range, and some times close range.. This what TF imo was suppose to be..... TF2 beta as it stands is far more balanced today then TFC after years of patchs..

TF2 may be a good game in its own right, but you can help but compare it to the gameplay of the original QWTF/TFC. It's extremely different from those 2 games, so I think people's disappointment from a TFC perspective is justified.

Stuff like removing bunnyjumping sucks because it removes skill from the game. Same with conc-jumping.

TF2 is more casual oriented which is good for sales, and bad for hardcore people. Commercial MP games have gone downhill since Q3/UT99

kyrieee

I have seen both soldiers and demos bounce into the upper floor of several maps. Explosive jumping is still just as usefull, however, as you say medics can't do it anymore. Which IMO is exactly as it should be, medics are a support class, they should be healing teammates and getting in the occasional kill with their needle gun, not jumping into a base and running rampant. If you want to do that play a soldier or a demo, medics should put their skills to use healing their team mates and maximizing their effectiveness.

Leave explosive jumping to the classes that are specialized in explosives. Also TF2 is just as fast paced as ther originaly, battles over the middle ground are extremely chaotic with two dozen characters squaring off and trying to kill each other any way they can. Just because you don't like the more team based focus and lack of grenades doesn't mean it is not fast paced.

im sure tf2 is better, but after playing fortress forever i dont plan on buying tf2. i dont want a cartoony game for 20-30 bucks, that has 6 maps, and the same graphics as usual. its just another mod that should be freencderek

Here's my experience so far:

Team Fortress 2 I find to be a little slow and frustrating at times. Having played TFC for 2-3 years I'm used to the fast paced respawning and combat, with people conc jumping all over the place. I consider myself to be a good concer, and I really enjoy shooting through the flag room and snatching the flag while dodging sentries. It simply adds more excitement IMO.

Then there's the issue of grenades. It's a win-lose situation with them; it's fun to massacre the opposing team with a flood of grenades, yet it's annoying to get blown up constantly as well. Overall I dislike the fact that TF2 discarded all nades, as it takes away alot of class specialization.

Fortress Forever also comes with more maps than TF2. You'll get monkey, aardvark, 2morfort, dustbowl, cornfield, shutdown, crossover, cz2m and some other that i can't quite think of at the moment. TF2 comes with a very limited selection.

I also found myself being annoyed that in TF2 i couldn't "solo" anything. Traditionally in a TF game you could run into the enemy base and single-handedly take out some sgs, kill some people, grab the flag and be off if you had enough skill. This is made impossible in TF2 by the lack of nades (meaning only spies can really take out SGs), lack of concs, and horrible rocket jumps. Now you have to wait for a teammate or two outside the enemy base before you even think of going after the flag. And while the aspect of teamwork is cool, it gets tedious having to run around with a teammate, just to have him get blown up.

and PLEASE STOP WHINING ABOUT THE CHAOS IN FF! If you've ever played a TF game before you'll know that's the whole point of it. if you want a slow game with minimal explosions play DoD:S. TF was designed with hectic chaos in mind and this is the core reason i like FF much more than TF2. FF always keeps you on your toes, with explosions everywhere and people shooting through the air at the speed of light. I almost fell asleep at my keyboard playing TF2 the 3rd day after the beta release.

Closing words: That was quite a rant, but i strongly encourage you to play FF if you are a TFC fan. The designers of FF built the game with hardcore Team fortress lovers at mind. TF2 to me is a dumbed down TFC for newcomers to the games. The reason you'll find alot of people hate FF is because they simply can't keep up with it. You have to know every gameplay element down to a science before even starting FF to be able to get really good at it. And while this Isn't necessarily a good thing, i'm one of those who knew every gameplay element and strategy before playing the game so i'm thouroughly satisfied with it. TF2 = Slow, frustrating, team-based game. FF= Fast, chaotic, classic game. Take your pick, but IMO FF wins hands down.

Sorry to anyone i may have offended in this post. This is entirely my opinion and i don't claim that any of what i said to be truth. I made this post just to show the TC a different perspective than the masses here.

The advantages PC gaming had are now being thrown away and slowly games are becoming more shallow by the month. But Gamespotters don't care because they're complete scrubs anyways.GodLovesDead

I applaud your laudable effort at a cop out. Fact is more people who played the original like TF2 than dislike. To the point of the hardcore opponents to the changes that Valve made having to resort to the above in order to support their argument.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"] The advantages PC gaming had are now being thrown away and slowly games are becoming more shallow by the month. But Gamespotters don't care because they're complete scrubs anyways.SerOlmy

I applaud your laudable effort at a cop out. Fact is more people who played the original like TF2 than dislike. To the point of the hardcore opponents to the changes that Valve made having to resort to the above in order to support their argument.

Nada. Valve is obviously just trying to appeal to as much people as they can. It's about the money, not the hardcore fans of the original. And to appeal to people, you have to make the game easy to play and easy to win, even when it comes down to removing more complex or skillful concepts to a game.