The PC gaming community is filled with elitist, self-entitled brats.

Is it true that PC gamers whine more than console gamers?

In my years of reading video game message boards, I say yes.

The difference between the Rage PS3 board and the Rage PC board on GameFAQs is astounding. On the PS3 and Xbox 360 boards, most of the discussions seemed to be focused on the game itself, and were, for the most part, friendly and non-argumentative. On the PC board, most discussions were centered on how Carmack "betrayed" PC gaming and how terrible the textures are, with most topics pitting those who thought the game was good against those who think that the game is terrible.

And despite what Carmack has said... it wasn't like the PC version was completely gimped to begin with, compared with other console ports. You could use the cursor to navigate the menus. Custom configuration files are still in. You can save manually. Yes, there weren't many in-game options to toggle on or off, but a well-created configuration file trumps limited parameters set by a configuration screen any day. And isn't that what PC gaming is all about - tweaking parameters to what we like?

Sometimes, I wonder if incessant whining by PC gamers is why most developers don't bother to give us options anymore. I am astounded by the level of entitlement demanded by PC gamers. Are people just trolling as usual, or does incessant complaining breed that sense of entitlement which encourages others to criticize, criticize, criticize to no end?

Some PC gamers think that they are more "mature" than their prepubescent console brethen, but their posts on Steam, GameFAQs, and other places appear to upend that notion quite handily.

Why bother to continue gaming as a hobby if everything about it upsets you so much that you have to post lengthy critiques on message boards, wasting everyone's time and energy, not to mention your own? Shouldn't gaming be all about enjoying ourselves, distancing ourselves from the real world for a few hours at a time?

Granted, there are times when complaints are warranted, but seeing RAGE getting bashed to no end upsets me. Why did these people buy the game to begin with? And I see that it's mostly coming from self-declared "PC gamers". If you are a true PC gamer, then you would go seek solutions to your own problems by tweaking the game accordingly.

Well there's no question what kind of answers you're going to get in here. Take it to system wars.

Well there's no question what kind of answers you're going to get in here. Take it to system wars.

will952

I didn't want to take it to System Wars because it's not necessarily game-related. It's more about people.

Depends sometimes developers mess up even the simplist **** like mouse and keyboard controls, UIs, Graphic options, and etc.

Justbecause we have higher standards it doesn't mean we whine more.

The inherent cost of PC gaming does lead to us having higher standards. I don't think it's bratty to ask for a game to be as close to bug-free as possible when it's released, and for it to work with the hardware we have.

I was a console gamer a few years back. Switched to PC gaming and I love it. But one thing I don't like is the PC community. They look down on the other systems and if your not a PC gamer your not worth talking to. I think PC gamers spend too much time complaining about the games rather than playing them.

The inherent cost of PC gaming does lead to us having higher standards. I don't think it's bratty to ask for a game to be as close to bug-free as possible when it's released, and for it to work with the hardware we have.

airshocker

Games are complex pieces of code. Anyone who has taken a programming class or done programming will realize how excruciating it is to find and eliminate bugs. While they should be as bug-free as possible, it's often not possible to squash every last one.

And does PC gaming really cost more than console gaming? If you are one of those people who always upgrades every year, of course it will cost a lot!

There are times when console ports are so shoddily put together that people should go on the message boards and make their voices heard. But, RAGE is not one of those console ports. It plays well. There is a command-line option to adjust the FOV for widescreen monitors. Textures are blurry, but that is really because id shipped the game with blurry textures to begin with to reduce the game's overall footprint.

I wouldn't say higher, just different standards. To a hardcore PC gamer, its normal to spend upwards of $1000 on a system for the best stuff and upgrade every 3 or 4 year, plus its also normal to deal with more technical issues related to Steam and games and crashing as well. Of course with those sacrifices, you get better graphics and a higher level of control in your games with different settings and mods for many games.

So there are some things that are better, but other things that, say, a PS3 gamer might not forgive if it happened on his PS3. I mean, $600 for PS3 when it came out was like a huge joke to them.

Personally, I love all gaming. PC, PS3, Xbox, Wii, its all good as long as I'm having fun.

I don't think it's PC gamers, I think it's people in general these days.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts (especially starting at 1:30):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Anyways I wrote something for a different forum that I think is pretty applicable to this thread:

So I am really not an old man, I'm not even middle aged, but lately I kinda feel like one! Not physically or mentally but I feel like the generation gap between myself and today's gamers is huge. And it really has nothing to do with today's games or the people who like them...I quite like most games released these days. I even like games aimed at "the masses" like Gears of War, Halo, and other mainstream games. This is more about the perceptions/opinions toward gaming in general and how I am starting to almost despise the general attitude most gamers have towards games these days.

My observations (mostly from mainstream gaming sites/forums):

I think gamers (especially PC gamers) have always been a fickle and overly critical bunch...but these days it's gone to a whole new level of crazy. Reading forums it has become apparent that people have become so critical of every aspect of a game that if one mechanic isn't completely awesome, new, unique, and amazing it's a garbage game that "totally sucks and completely fails". Games are often described with adjectives such as clone, failure, crap, garbage, horrible, abysmal, **** bla bla bla. To be honest I think the motivation for posting these type of opinions are more geared towards taking people who do like the game "down a peg" or to show everyone how "video game savvy" they are. Maybe this is just me, but in my eyes someone who can see the value/merits of even mediocre games has a deeper understanding and appreciation of games than someone who can only point out the exceptional.

Perceptions towards developers...oh boy this is a big one lol. People have always had their favorite developers, this is nothing new. And there have been developers who didn't come through with promises who were also lambasted by players as well. But oh man, today there is an almost tangible level of hate and animosity towards developers. Constantly being called lazy, stupid, idiots, incompetent, and so on. And I really don't know what has changed...as far as I can remember games have always had bugs and flaws. I think perhaps even more then...I remember games being released totally broken...and not broken in how most gamers use it today...I'm talking about literally broken. So not much has changed in my view, yet the vitriol is far worse. What bothers me most is the folks who constantly scream and yell about "lazy developers"...I wonder if these guys have any idea how hard game developers work? Even developers of poor quality games probably worked their ass off too. Sometimes things don't work out, sometimes the budget was smaller than their ambition, or maybe they made critical mistakes early one that they just couldn't overcome. I think the cases where developers where actually stupid/lazy/whatever are pretty far and in between.

Hate towards the popular. I think perhaps there have been too many "underdog movies" in the last two decades because the amount of hate successful game companies/games get is so freaking irrational I don't even know what to say lol. Now, I am not saying people who don't like popular games are wrong...everyone has their own personal taste and ideas of what makes a great game. What I am talking about is the masses of people who make a concerted effort and go out of their way to trash these games/companies. There have been popular games I didn't like, for instance The Witcher. The combat didn't appeal to me to the point where I couldn't even enjoy the rest of the game. Yet every time the game is mentioned I certainly don't feel the need to say how bad the game sucks (which I don't think it sucks, the game clearly has it's merits). This is what goes on constantly these days though. Mention a popular game/company and the same people show up every time to tell everyone how ****ty that game is, how stupid the people are who do like it, and how smart they are for seeing through these evil developers plot to make games for the masses and rip you off! Muhahaha!

Whew! Ok I think that's enough for now! Anyways, maybe it's not a generational thing, maybe the internet has changed the way people express opinions. Maybe it's a cultural thing (not really about age) and people just expect more these days quicker, cheaper, faster, and better. Maybe I am just too sensitive. Or maybe I just don't understand the vernacular of today...is crap the new decent?!?!?! Personally I do think it's a generational thing though. There seems to be a distinct lack of appreciation of what it takes to create something. Generation me basically...and I think it can all be summed up as "if I don't like it, it must be crap made by stupid people for dumb gullible gamers". So that's pretty much it, been wanting to express these thoughts for a few years now...glad I got that off my chest. postfromotherforum

Games are complex pieces of code. Anyone who has taken a programming class or done programming will realize how excruciating it is to find and eliminate bugs. While they should be as bug-free as possible, it's often not possible to squash every last one.

And does PC gaming really cost more than console gaming? If you are one of those people who always upgrades every year, of course it will cost a lot!

There are times when console ports are so shoddily put together that people should go on the message boards and make their voices heard. But, RAGE is not one of those console ports. It plays well. There is a command-line option to adjust the FOV for widescreen monitors. Textures are blurry, but that is really because id shipped the game with blurry textures to begin with to reduce the game's overall footprint.

The_Capitalist

Right...which is why I just said as bug-free as possible. PC gamers don't really care about the odd random bug or two that doesn't affect gameplay all that much. What does affect the experience of a game is the whole texture and FPS issues with rage.

Considering I've spent maybe 1000 dollars on my consoles(not including games) and probably an upwards of 5000 on my various PCs, I would definitely say PC gaming is much more expensive.

I would disagree. Locking graphics settings screams shoddy, console port. The FPS and texture issues do as well. It shows the game wasn't tested enough for the PC.

Granted, there are times when complaints are warranted, but seeing RAGE getting bashed to no end upsets me. Why did these people buy the game to begin with? And I see that it's mostly coming from self-declared "PC gamers". If you are a true PC gamer, then you would go seek solutions to your own problems by tweaking the game accordingly.The_Capitalist

I would say the release of "Rage" was one of the times when complaints were warranted. The game was broken on the PC right from the start. It barely worked at all on ATI cards and had significant problems with Nvidia cards too. I don't see why Carmack and iD should get a "free ride" here, they charged a console price for a PC game and released a product that was barely functioning on a vast number of PC's. It was incredibly sloppy work and they should be called out for it.

No a "true" PC gamer does not mean you do the companies work for them. A true PC gamer means well you play on the PC hence the term "PC Gamer". I find it staggering that there are people here suggesting we should be happy with what iD released on the PC platform. The game was a mess on the PC and quite rightly iD got called out on it and then Carmack got all defensive and blamed everyone but themselves for it.

AND ???? So what we expect/Demand so much more alfter all we have 1000's$ invested not a few 100$

Because I think PC gamers take more pride in themselves and they're much smarter. If you want to settle for less and pay for whatever publishers/developers want to dish at you at below quality level standards, then that's your prerogative. But don't come out saying we're elitists just because we have different standards. You don't know me and I don't know you like that.Elann2008

Note, I said "is filled with". I was not directing the post at anyone in particular - only a general pool of people who fit that characteristic.

Maybe it's because RAGE worked fine for me (minus the occassional pop-in). It looks amazing, from my perspective.

I do think that some PC gamers have a tendency towards elitism and think they are smarter and more sophisticated than the rest of the gaming community.

These people will also often rage that companies that started off as PC developers (like ID) must stay "loyal" to this platform and that you are selling out if you start making your games for console.

That being said, it does seem like in the specific case with Rage, there were actually PC specific problems that justified negative reactions.

Because I think PC gamers take more pride in themselves and they're much smarter. If you want to settle for less and pay for whatever publishers/developers want to dish at you at below quality level standards, then that's your prerogative. But don't come out saying we're elitists just because we have different standards. You don't know me and I don't know you like that.Elann2008

I couldn't disagree more. Most of the complains I've read is that the game(rage) doesn't work as it should. I've had problems getting it to run decent myself and have had to change a lot of settings in the config file to make it playable. A game that they've worked on for so long and is fullpriced should not be released with so many issues and it probably wouldn't if they bothered to test it properly.

I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to complain, especially with the recent developments in gaming.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]Because I think PC gamers take more pride in themselves and they're much smarter. If you want to settle for less and pay for whatever publishers/developers want to dish at you at below quality level standards, then that's your prerogative. But don't come out saying we're elitists just because we have different standards. You don't know me and I don't know you like that.GeneralShowzer

Note, I said "is filled with". I was not directing the post at anyone in particular - only a general pool of people who fit that characteristic.

Maybe it's because RAGE worked fine for me (minus the occassional pop-in). It looks amazing, from my perspective.

There is a reason why I will never buy an ATI card.

Granted, I am guilty of whining a lot myself, but... all I was trying to do in those posts is inspire some discussion, nothing more. Sometimes you have to whine a little (even if you really have no complaints or do not feel strongly about the subject) to inspire good discussion.

I couldn't disagree more. Most of the complains I've read is that the game(rage) doesn't work as it should. I've had problems getting it to run decent myself and have had to change a lot of settings in the config file to make it playable. A game that they've worked on for so long and is fullpriced should not be released with so many issues and it probably wouldn't if they bothered to test it properly.

I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to complain, especially with the recent developments in gaming.

dsgsdfgf

Well, perhaps I picked a bad example. But, there are times when there is a lot of incessant whining for no reason.

I do think that some PC gamers have a tendency towards elitism and think they are smarter and more sophisticated than the rest of the gaming community.

These people will also often rage that companies that started off as PC developers (like ID) must stay "loyal" to this platform and that you are selling out if you start making your games for console.

That being said, it does seem like in the specific case with Rage, there were actually PC specific problems that justified negative reactions.

Technomancer82

I don't think most people care about the fact that it's also on console. The big problem here is that pc gamers generally don't like when the sequel is inferior in almost every way to it predecessor and that a lot of these changes seem to be a result of multiplatform development.

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]Because I think PC gamers take more pride in themselves and they're much smarter. If you want to settle for less and pay for whatever publishers/developers want to dish at you at below quality level standards, then that's your prerogative. But don't come out saying we're elitists just because we have different standards. You don't know me and I don't know you like that.The_Capitalist

Note, I said "is filled with". I was not directing the post at anyone in particular - only a general pool of people who fit that characteristic.

Maybe it's because RAGE worked fine for me (minus the occassional pop-in). It looks amazing, from my perspective.

Some PC gamers think that they are more "mature" than their prepubescent console brethen, but their posts on Steam, GameFAQs, and other places appear to upend that notion quite handily.

The_Capitalist

says the guy with ponies in his avator & sig, i sincerely hope you aren't older than 20

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

Note, I said "is filled with". I was not directing the post at anyone in particular - only a general pool of people who fit that characteristic.

Maybe it's because RAGE worked fine for me (minus the occassional pop-in). It looks amazing, from my perspective.

The_Capitalist

There is a reason why I will never buy an ATI card.

Granted, I am guilty of whining a lot myself, but... all I was trying to do in those posts is inspire some discussion, nothing more. Sometimes you have to whine a little (even if you really have no complaints or do not feel strongly about the subject) to inspire good discussion.

I don't think it's PC gamers, I think it's people in general these days.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts (especially starting at 1:30):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Anyways I wrote something for a different forum that I think is pretty applicable to this thread:

[quote="postfromotherforum"]

So I am really not an old man, I'm not even middle aged, but lately I kinda feel like one! Not physically or mentally but I feel like the generation gap between myself and today's gamers is huge. And it really has nothing to do with today's games or the people who like them...I quite like most games released these days. I even like games aimed at "the masses" like Gears of War, Halo, and other mainstream games. This is more about the perceptions/opinions toward gaming in general and how I am starting to almost despise the general attitude most gamers have towards games these days.

My observations (mostly from mainstream gaming sites/forums):

I think gamers (especially PC gamers) have always been a fickle and overly critical bunch...but these days it's gone to a whole new level of crazy. Reading forums it has become apparent that people have become so critical of every aspect of a game that if one mechanic isn't completely awesome, new, unique, and amazing it's a garbage game that "totally sucks and completely fails". Games are often described with adjectives such as clone, failure, crap, garbage, horrible, abysmal, **** bla bla bla. To be honest I think the motivation for posting these type of opinions are more geared towards taking people who do like the game "down a peg" or to show everyone how "video game savvy" they are. Maybe this is just me, but in my eyes someone who can see the value/merits of even mediocre games has a deeper understanding and appreciation of games than someone who can only point out the exceptional.

Perceptions towards developers...oh boy this is a big one lol. People have always had their favorite developers, this is nothing new. And there have been developers who didn't come through with promises who were also lambasted by players as well. But oh man, today there is an almost tangible level of hate and animosity towards developers. Constantly being called lazy, stupid, idiots, incompetent, and so on. And I really don't know what has changed...as far as I can remember games have always had bugs and flaws. I think perhaps even more then...I remember games being released totally broken...and not broken in how most gamers use it today...I'm talking about literally broken. So not much has changed in my view, yet the vitriol is far worse. What bothers me most is the folks who constantly scream and yell about "lazy developers"...I wonder if these guys have any idea how hard game developers work? Even developers of poor quality games probably worked their ass off too. Sometimes things don't work out, sometimes the budget was smaller than their ambition, or maybe they made critical mistakes early one that they just couldn't overcome. I think the cases where developers where actually stupid/lazy/whatever are pretty far and in between.

Hate towards the popular. I think perhaps there have been too many "underdog movies" in the last two decades because the amount of hate successful game companies/games get is so freaking irrational I don't even know what to say lol. Now, I am not saying people who don't like popular games are wrong...everyone has their own personal taste and ideas of what makes a great game. What I am talking about is the masses of people who make a concerted effort and go out of their way to trash these games/companies. There have been popular games I didn't like, for instance The Witcher. The combat didn't appeal to me to the point where I couldn't even enjoy the rest of the game. Yet every time the game is mentioned I certainly don't feel the need to say how bad the game sucks (which I don't think it sucks, the game clearly has it's merits). This is what goes on constantly these days though. Mention a popular game/company and the same people show up every time to tell everyone how ****ty that game is, how stupid the people are who do like it, and how smart they are for seeing through these evil developers plot to make games for the masses and rip you off! Muhahaha!

Whew! Ok I think that's enough for now! Anyways, maybe it's not a generational thing, maybe the internet has changed the way people express opinions. Maybe it's a cultural thing (not really about age) and people just expect more these days quicker, cheaper, faster, and better. Maybe I am just too sensitive. Or maybe I just don't understand the vernacular of today...is crap the new decent?!?!?! Personally I do think it's a generational thing though. There seems to be a distinct lack of appreciation of what it takes to create something. Generation me basically...and I think it can all be summed up as "if I don't like it, it must be crap made by stupid people for dumb gullible gamers". So that's pretty much it, been wanting to express these thoughts for a few years now...glad I got that off my chest. Renevent42

What are we? Starving children waiting for crumbs of bread to fall from the developers` tables? We are CUSTOMERS, we are entitled to complain and whine seeing as we are paying for their product.

After 6 years of development, people were expecting a better product, and to make the situation worse, Carmack goes on full damage control.

This just proves that Legacy doesnt mean s***.

RAGE was a disaster when it released on the PC, one of the worst launches this year. I still cant play it on my desktop because I have a dual core CPU and a ATI video card.

If people are complaining about a game like with RAGE, its probably for a good reason. Just because a game works well for you doesn't mean it works well for everyone else.

As per the graphics settings argument, consoles don't need them because they have set hardware and everyone is playing them on the same system. With PC's, peopl have a massive variety of different hardware. If a game has no graphics options, anyone who can't play the game on the default settings is immidiately excluded from those who can play on the PC. And those who spent a lot of money on a powerful PC will see no improvement over those who have a mid-range PC.

Also, the fact that PC gamers argue more and disagree with each other is a sign of intelligence. People will develop their own opinions, and attempt to explain them to others so they will see things the same way. Other people might not agree, and will in turn try to assert their opinions. There is no point to discussion if everyone always agrees with everyone else on everything.

I think the point here is not that there's anything wrong with speaking out about a bad product or poor design choice in a given game. There's nothing wrong in pointing out that ID failed to release a fully functional product. The thing that I think TC is talking about is the way a lot of people tend to express themselves. We're not talking gamers saying that ID did a poor job and that it's a disappointment that they failed to release a bug free product, instead it's people posting about how ID are traitors, lazy, incompetent, that they don't care about the quality of their work, that they hate PC Gamers, that they've sold out, that they have 'raped' the PC gamers. I've literally seen posters here talk about how they'd love to physically attack developers for not adding a certain slider or feature or whatever to a game.

No offense, among most groups in society, that kind of behavior is not the same as 'speaking out'. That's more akin to expressing some kind of emotional hysteria that we've previously only seen in very very hardcore sports fans and MAYBE in the most extreme and crazy Star Wars and Treekie fans.

Imagine you went into best buy and bought a new TV, you then discovered that one of the buttons didn't work. Would you

A) Return to best buy, explain the problem in a calm and polite manner and ask them to fix the issue in a timely manner or return your money.

Or would you

B) Return to best buy, screaming about how everyone who works at best buy is a useless piece of … who should be fired and that the store as a whole is really a big conspiracy to destroy TV as a media form.

It seems that a lot of PC gamers opt for option B when expressing them selves. It's gotten to the point where it often puts PC Gamers, as a group, in a bad light.

You pay a lot more for your system and get promised better versions of games from Dev's so when they dumb them down and are only slightly better than Console versions then yes we deserve some answers. We pay more because we expect more, we have higher standards. That does not make us whiners.

hypocritical much!?:| whining about whiney gamers!

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]Because I think PC gamers take more pride in themselves and they're much smarter. If you want to settle for less and pay for whatever publishers/developers want to dish at you at below quality level standards, then that's your prerogative. But don't come out saying we're elitists just because we have different standards. You don't know me and I don't know you like that.HoosTrax

Wow. This is a perfect analogy

You pay a lot more for your system and get promised better versions of games from Dev's so when they dumb them down and are only slightly better than Console versions then yes we deserve some answers. We pay more because we expect more, we have higher standards. That does not make us whiners.

seanmcloughlin

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

You pay a lot more for your system and get promised better versions of games from Dev's so when they dumb them down and are only slightly better than Console versions then yes we deserve some answers. We pay more because we expect more, we have higher standards. That does not make us whiners.

SF_KiLLaMaN

Based on that logic, would it be reasonable for devs to charge more for PC games? Currently they are the same or cheaper than console games.

PC gamers can be annoying whiners, L4D2 boycotts come to mind. But sometimes we do have a good reason, Rage was pretty hyped game and it obviously wasn't up to standard.

When respected PC devs like Id or Crytek screw up their PC version backslash is to be expected, it's not just that it's a port, many ports like Batman AA are well liked here, it's when it's a bad port that tensions rise.

Console gamers would be equally enraged if one of their trusted developers focused on the other system and effed up their version, it just happens a lot less there.

I notice far more screaming, whining and nonsense on consoles online then PC.

For the msot part PC gamign has a great community, sure there are some times when someone might annoy you but overall its much better then consoles from an onlien community standpoint.