Thief Deadly Shadows is best of series

i know that's not a common view, but finally (several years too late) i've got round to finishing playing TDS and it is fantastic - the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now - TDS has great atmosphere, characterisation, plot, graphics etc etc - i've just reviewed it here

i just think those who complain about it don't like any kind of change, but i think it's superb - i really hope that if it's true Thief 4 is being developed, they don;t listen to all the negative stuff about TDS

TDS is a fun game. But the first 2 are better. Dismissing the first two just because they are old seems rather silly, especially considering TDS is an old game by now and i can easily use the argument that TDS isnt a good game because its also old.

the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now

jfsebastianII

You fail. :| Saying that games are bad because they're too old... No wonder no-one takes gaming seriously, I mean think if someone said that The Godfather sucks because it's too old. That's mega fail. Age, like graphics, do not matter at all.

Anyway, Thief 1 and 2 are the best games ever made, even better than Deus Ex, yes I enjoyed Thief 3 a lot but it was not as good as the first two. Thief 4 will not be nearly as good either.

[QUOTE="jfsebastianII"]

the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now

HenriH-42

You fail. :| Saying that games are bad because they're too old... No wonder no-one takes gaming seriously, I mean think if someone said that The Godfather sucks because it's too old. That's mega fail. Age, like graphics, do not matter at all.

Anyway, Thief 1 and 2 are the best games ever made, even better than Deus Ex, yes I enjoyed Thief 3 a lot but it was not as good as the first two. Thief 4 will not be nearly as good either.

just because u feel these games are so great because their clazzics (they censored it?!?) doesnt mean their really great anymore,

if they came out today ud prolly not waste ur time on it.

i loved thief 3, so much that i tried the other games, but i couldnt get into it, too dated for my taste

if you think age doesnt matter then you shouldnt immediately say thief 4 wont be as good based on nothing

ur the reason no one takes gaming seriously, because you base judgements on fanboyism and not actual quality

you fail

if age does not matter "at all" why do u immediately say thief 4 wont be as good as the rest, its not even out yet and no information is out on it (except thats its going to be announced).

just because u feel these games are so great because their clazzics (they censored it?!?) doesnt mean their really great anymore,

if they came out today ud prolly not waste ur time on it.

i loved thief 3, so much that i tried the other games, but i couldnt get into it, too dated for my taste

if you think age doesnt matter then you shouldnt immediately say thief 4 wont be as good based on nothing

ur the reason no one takes gaming seriously, because you base judgements on fanboyism and not actual quality

you fail

i-rock-socks

Huh? The reason why Thief 4 won't be as good has nothing to do with age. It has to do with the current state of the industry. Casual games sell, console games sell, complex and innovative PC games don't sell as much -> it will be a console-centric game = it will not be as good as Thief 1 & 2. Period. Thief 3 already showed what happened when the series became more mainstream and console focused. And that was in 2004, when games still were actually decent.

For example, tell me; Do you honestly think that Terminator 4 will be as good as Terminator 1 and 2? We haven't seen the movie yet, but I will 100% guarantee that it won't be as good. That too has nothing to with age, it's the same kinda deal. It just won't be as good, because it's a new director, the industry is different (Hollywood mass produced crap) etc.

And please tell me why I am still playing Thief 1 and 2, when my copy of Thief 3 has been collecting dust since 2005? Why is no-one making fan missions for Thief 3, but there's at least 2-5 new fan missions for Thief 2 every month? Maybe, you know, the old games were better and more memorable? Yeah. Newer =/= better. In fact in most cases it's the other way around.

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]

if age does not matter "at all" why do u immediately say thief 4 wont be as good as the rest, its not even out yet and no information is out on it (except thats its going to be announced).

just because u feel these games are so great because their clazzics (they censored it?!?) doesnt mean their really great anymore,

if they came out today ud prolly not waste ur time on it.

i loved thief 3, so much that i tried the other games, but i couldnt get into it, too dated for my taste

if you think age doesnt matter then you shouldnt immediately say thief 4 wont be as good based on nothing

ur the reason no one takes gaming seriously, because you base judgements on fanboyism and not actual quality

you fail

HenriH-42

Huh? The reason why Thief 4 won't be as good has nothing to do with age. It has to do with the current state of the industry. Casual games sell, console games sell, complex and innovative PC games don't sell as much -> it will be a console-centric game = it will not be as good as Thief 1 & 2. Period. Thief 3 already showed what happened when the series became more mainstream and console focused. And that was in 2004, when games still were actually decent.

For example, tell me; Do you honestly think that Terminator 4 will be as good as Terminator 1 and 2? We haven't seen the movie yet, but I will 100% guarantee that it won't be as good. That too has nothing to with age, it's the same kinda deal. It just won't be as good, because it's a new director, the industry is different (Hollywood mass produced crap) etc.

And please tell me why I am still playing Thief 1 and 2, when my copy of Thief 3 has been collecting dust since 2005? Why is no-one making fan missions for Thief 3, but there's at least 2-5 new fan missions for Thief 2 every month? Maybe, you know, the old games were better and more memorable? Yeah. Newer =/= better. In fact in most cases it's the other way around.

fanboyism

yeah im sure you do play thief 1 and 2, but thats not what i said

i said if the games came out "TODAY" you wouldnt

your fanboyism is derived from nostalgia

back in the day they were awesome, and you still have that feeling when ur playing em now

my agrument has nothing to do with industry and sales which you brought up for no reason other then you had no ammunition for an argument

the fact that you think thief 4 will not be as good just because its going to be on consoles and the state of the industry is just a vailed attempt to praise ur old favs while ******** on games you feel scorned by cause they went multiplatform

how bout you wait til you see or play it

and for someone who thinks age isnt important you sure do derive much of ur opinion from age

im not saying newer is bad or better

im saying that your saying "older is better"

which goes against your statement of "age doesnt matter"

ulitima 7 is one of my favorite games of all time, but if it came out today, i prolly wouldnt have played it nearly as much. but thats just my opinion

if you dont like games that come out nowadays thats fine, its ur opinion and your welcome to it, but when you insult someone elses opinion and then act as if ur opinion is fact

fail... just fail

like i said be4

fanboyism

yeah im sure you do play thief 1 and 2, but thats not what i said

i said if the games came out "TODAY" you wouldnt

your fanboyism is derived from nostalgia

back in the day they were awesome, and you still have that feeling when ur playing em now

my agrument has nothing to do with industry and sales which you brought up for no reason other then you had no ammunition for an argument

the fact that you think thief 4 will not be as good just because its going to be on consoles and the state of the industry is just a vailed attempt to praise ur old favs while ******** on games you feel scorned by cause they went multiplatform

how bout you wait til you see or play it

and for someone who thinks age isnt important you sure do derive much of ur opinion from age

im not saying newer is bad or better

im saying that your saying "older is better"

which goes against your statement of "age doesnt matter"

ulitima 7 is one of my favorite games of all time, but if it came out today, i prolly wouldnt have played it nearly as much. but thats just my opinion

if you dont like games that come out nowadays thats fine, its ur opinion and your welcome to it, but when you insult someone elses opinion and then act as if ur opinion is fact

fail... just fail

i-rock-socks

You know what, I really hate the "nostalgia" argument. I wasn't there when most of the classics were released, I found about them later on. I was playing mostly mainstream games until around 2006. I found MobyGames and searched for games, and now I've bought pretty much all the classics I've missed on. I didn't play them "back then", so there goes your nostalgia argument.

Thief 4 will not be as good. Nothing will ever match Thief 1 and 2, and it's directly related to the state of the industry. Casual games and simple mainstream games are what sells these days, Eidos is a big company, they don't want to take risks so they will dumb it down. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy it though, it just won't be as good. That's why in 2020 I will still be playing Thief 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. Modern games, with few exceptions (fe. STALKER), are just too generic to ever reach the "classic" status.

My opinion is an opinion, not a fact. I never said that it was a fact. And I DO like modern games. Just not as much as I like old games, and again, it has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, most of them were made before I was even born. I just don't like this new casual/consolized style that gaming is nowadays.

Thief 3 was a step backwards in every area except graphics, but graphics do not matter at all so... yeah well I guess all of it was a step backwards. On the other hand, the Splinter Cell series... 1 was ok, 2 was better, 3 is the best. It improved over time. Thief 3 didn't improve, which means that Thief 1 and 2 are still better. It's like Doom, Doom 1 and 2 are classics but 3 was meh, so Doom 1 and 2 are better than Doom 3.

Its not an out of the box view, because Ive always liked Thief3 the best as well. Not because the others are older, but because I just enjoyed Deadly Shadows more.

[QUOTE="HenriH-42"]

[QUOTE="jfsebastianII"]

the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now

You fail. :| Saying that games are bad because they're too old... No wonder no-one takes gaming seriously, I mean think if someone said that The Godfather sucks because it's too old. That's mega fail. Age, like graphics, do not matter at all.

Anyway, Thief 1 and 2 are the best games ever made, even better than Deus Ex, yes I enjoyed Thief 3 a lot but it was not as good as the first two. Thief 4 will not be nearly as good either.

just because u feel these games are so great because their clazzics (they censored it?!?) doesnt mean their really great anymore,

if they came out today ud prolly not waste ur time on it.

i loved thief 3, so much that i tried the other games, but i couldnt get into it, too dated for my taste

if you think age doesnt matter then you shouldnt immediately say thief 4 wont be as good based on nothing

ur the reason no one takes gaming seriously, because you base judgements on fanboyism and not actual quality

you fail

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]

like i said be4

fanboyism

yeah im sure you do play thief 1 and 2, but thats not what i said

i said if the games came out "TODAY" you wouldnt

your fanboyism is derived from nostalgia

back in the day they were awesome, and you still have that feeling when ur playing em now

my agrument has nothing to do with industry and sales which you brought up for no reason other then you had no ammunition for an argument

the fact that you think thief 4 will not be as good just because its going to be on consoles and the state of the industry is just a vailed attempt to praise ur old favs while ******** on games you feel scorned by cause they went multiplatform

how bout you wait til you see or play it

and for someone who thinks age isnt important you sure do derive much of ur opinion from age

im not saying newer is bad or better

im saying that your saying "older is better"

which goes against your statement of "age doesnt matter"

ulitima 7 is one of my favorite games of all time, but if it came out today, i prolly wouldnt have played it nearly as much. but thats just my opinion

if you dont like games that come out nowadays thats fine, its ur opinion and your welcome to it, but when you insult someone elses opinion and then act as if ur opinion is fact

fail... just fail

HenriH-42

You know what, I really hate the "nostalgia" argument. I wasn't there when most of the classics were released, I found about them later on. I was playing mostly mainstream games until around 2006. I found MobyGames and searched for games, and now I've bought pretty much all the classics I've missed on. I didn't play them "back then", so there goes your nostalgia argument.

Thief 4 will not be as good. Nothing will ever match Thief 1 and 2, and it's directly related to the state of the industry. Casual games and simple mainstream games are what sells these days, Eidos is a big company, they don't want to take risks so they will dumb it down. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy it though, it just won't be as good. That's why in 2020 I will still be playing Thief 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. Modern games, with few exceptions (fe. STALKER), are just too generic to ever reach the "classic" status.

My opinion is an opinion, not a fact. I never said that it was a fact. And I DO like modern games. Just not as much as I like old games, and again, it has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, most of them were made before I was even born. I just don't like this new casual/consolized style that gaming is nowadays.

Thief 3 was a step backwards in every area except graphics, but graphics do not matter at all so... yeah well I guess all of it was a step backwards. On the other hand, the Splinter Cell series... 1 was ok, 2 was better, 3 is the best. It improved over time. Thief 3 didn't improve, which means that Thief 1 and 2 are still better. It's like Doom, Doom 1 and 2 are classics but 3 was meh, so Doom 1 and 2 are better than Doom 3.

you can act as if you opinion is fact as long as you want

but until you KNOW that youre opinion is just that

urll fail...

fail :(

[QUOTE="HenriH-42"]

You know what, I really hate the "nostalgia" argument. I wasn't there when most of the classics were released, I found about them later on. I was playing mostly mainstream games until around 2006. I found MobyGames and searched for games, and now I've bought pretty much all the classics I've missed on. I didn't play them "back then", so there goes your nostalgia argument.

Thief 4 will not be as good. Nothing will ever match Thief 1 and 2, and it's directly related to the state of the industry. Casual games and simple mainstream games are what sells these days, Eidos is a big company, they don't want to take risks so they will dumb it down. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy it though, it just won't be as good. That's why in 2020 I will still be playing Thief 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. Modern games, with few exceptions (fe. STALKER), are just too generic to ever reach the "classic" status.

My opinion is an opinion, not a fact. I never said that it was a fact. And I DO like modern games. Just not as much as I like old games, and again, it has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, most of them were made before I was even born. I just don't like this new casual/consolized ****that gaming is nowadays.

Thief 3 was a step backwards in every area except graphics, but graphics do not matter at all so... yeah well I guess all of it was a step backwards. On the other hand, the Splinter Cell series... 1 was ok, 2 was better, 3 is the best. It improved over time. Thief 3 didn't improve, which means that Thief 1 and 2 are still better. It's like Doom, Doom 1 and 2 are ****cs but 3 was meh, so Doom 1 and 2 are better than Doom 3.

i-rock-socks

you can act as if you opinion is fact as long as you want

but until you KNOW that youre opinion is just that

urll fail...

fail :(

Yeah. We're all talking about our opinions here, I think that should be clear without mentioning it.

And my opinion is that Thief 1 & 2 are the best Thief games there ever will be, Thief 3 was good but disappointing, Thief 4 will follow in it's footsteps towards the console audience.

Which means that it will not be as good.

i agree with henrih, i would like if game companies would used todays technology and gameplay combinet with "old school" attention to detail,atmosphere and storytelling

poster "i rock socks", you are the one who fails. Your obvious childish argument and comebacks reek of fail.

i know that's not a common view, but finally (several years too late) i've got round to finishing playing TDS and it is fantastic - the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now - TDS has great atmosphere, characterisation, plot, graphics etc etc - i've just reviewed it here

i just think those who complain about it don't like any kind of change, but i think it's superb - i really hope that if it's true Thief 4 is being developed, they don;t listen to all the negative stuff about TDS

jfsebastianII

yeah its good still looks decent with the graphics mod. i enjoyed it anyway but i love almost any game requiring stealth. and as far as thief 4 goes im definitely keepin an eye on any news for it, theres such a lack of stealth based games that anything announced featuring stealth gets my attention. crysis is the last game i can remember being released in which stealth plays a big part in the gameplay, so im well overdue a new fix

When I read this title I immediately felt the need to drink an entire bottle of Malox.

I gotta go with Thief 2 being the best of the series, with Thief 1 being second best and Thief 3 being the worst. Not to say Thief 3 was bad, being the worst Thief game is like being the slowest Ferrari. Other Ferraris may be faster than you, but you are still pretty damned fast. I really enjoyed Thief 3, I just got a lot more fun out of Thief 2.

I gotta go with Thief 2 being the best of the series, with Thief 1 being second best and Thief 3 being the worst. Not to say Thief 3 was bad, being the worst Thief game is like being the slowest Ferrari. Other Ferraris may be faster than you, but you are still pretty damned fast. I really enjoyed Thief 3, I just got a lot more fun out of Thief 2.

Royas

I agree with that, it's pretty much my opinion too. Except that I personally like Thief 1 a little bit more than 2, but... Yeah, Thief 3 is not a bad game by any means, on it's own it's pretty awesome but as a part of the Thief series, it's clearly the weakest. Kinda like Fallout 3.

The Dark Project > The Metal Age >>> Deadly Shadow.

I gotta go with Thief 2 being the best of the series, with Thief 1 being second best and Thief 3 being the worst. Not to say Thief 3 was bad, being the worst Thief game is like being the slowest Ferrari. Other Ferraris may be faster than you, but you are still pretty damned fast. I really enjoyed Thief 3, I just got a lot more fun out of Thief 2.

Royas

No offense to the other people in thread, but this is the best response I've read in the entire thread. It paints a clearer picture of the Thief series, meaning that TDS is a great game, but for people who have played all 3 games in the series, it only ranks as 3rd. That bit about Ferrari cars made it clear that you can't go wrong playing any of these games.

I will have to agree with one point that was made about how it is wrong to immediately dismiss a game that has yet to be released as having no chance to exceed in quality an older game in the series. But that's just my opinion and everyone can state their opinion right? However, I have seen it happen in other series wherein I prefer the older iteration over the latest one. For example, in the Homeworld series, I'd still rank the first game as the one I enjoyed the most and love. In any case, knowing that every Thief game is a quality title, I think I will give TDS a try.

Ahh, I guess I should quit my current Thief 2 Fan Mission in progress and start over with a Thief 3 Fan Mission...that's where the demand is :roll:

Well, as i said i knew it wasn't going to be the most popular view, but i don't see much explanation as to WHY people say the first 2 games are better, or equally why TDS isn't as good in your opinion?

Personally i found the Metal Age quite dull, especially early on with the bit in the warehouse, which went on for ever. Also, as i say in my review, it was too easy to just knock everyone over the head and go about your business - TDS made every encounter with an enemy something you had to think about in terms of whether you could get away with the blackjack, or were better off avoiding them or killing them outright

My main problem with the third game is the lack of options, but off the top of my head...
The levels were smaller and more linear than the previous two games (compare the tiny city streets of Thief 3 to the sprawling street/rooftop levels found in Thief 2); Cradle was fantastic but the rest of the missions were mediocre; the arrow physics were dumbed down, and fencing was entirely removed; you had less items at your disposal, including interesting tools like rope/vine arrows.

Eh, I don't know, I could make a longer list - but Thief 3 removed/dumbed down quite a lot, whilst only improving the graphics. I'd call it the worst in the series, but it's still one of the best stealth games I've ever played.

Although I thought Deadly Shadows was a good game it was the weakest out of the trilogy for me just because it was kind of dumbed down(Which pretty much happens when you release the game both on the PC and a console system) compared to the first two games. I still think The Dark Project SE had the better story whereas The Metal Age had better level designs and enemies.

Ive played all the thief games, and grew up with them, and I still liked Thief3 best.

So dont put people that like Thief 3 the most, in the catagory to young to have played the first thief games.

Ive played all the thief games, and grew up with them, and I still liked Thief3 best.

So dont put people that like Thief 3 the most, in the catagory to young to have played the first thief games.

mimic-Denmark

Ahh, I guess I should quit my current Thief 2 Fan Mission in progress and start over with a Thief 3 Fan Mission...that's where the demand is :roll:

Xeon86

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]

[QUOTE="HenriH-42"]

You know what, I really hate the "nostalgia" argument. I wasn't there when most of the classics were released, I found about them later on. I was playing mostly mainstream games until around 2006. I found MobyGames and searched for games, and now I've bought pretty much all the classics I've missed on. I didn't play them "back then", so there goes your nostalgia argument.

Thief 4 will not be as good. Nothing will ever match Thief 1 and 2, and it's directly related to the state of the industry. Casual games and simple mainstream games are what sells these days, Eidos is a big company, they don't want to take risks so they will dumb it down. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy it though, it just won't be as good. That's why in 2020 I will still be playing Thief 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. Modern games, with few exceptions (fe. STALKER), are just too generic to ever reach the "classic" status.

My opinion is an opinion, not a fact. I never said that it was a fact. And I DO like modern games. Just not as much as I like old games, and again, it has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, most of them were made before I was even born. I just don't like this new casual/consolized ****that gaming is nowadays.

Thief 3 was a step backwards in every area except graphics, but graphics do not matter at all so... yeah well I guess all of it was a step backwards. On the other hand, the Splinter Cell series... 1 was ok, 2 was better, 3 is the best. It improved over time. Thief 3 didn't improve, which means that Thief 1 and 2 are still better. It's like Doom, Doom 1 and 2 are ****cs but 3 was meh, so Doom 1 and 2 are better than Doom 3.

HenriH-42

you can act as if you opinion is fact as long as you want

but until you KNOW that youre opinion is just that

urll fail...

fail :(

Yeah. We're all talking about our opinions here, I think that should be clear without mentioning it.

And my opinion is that Thief 1 & 2 are the best Thief games there ever will be, Thief 3 was good but disappointing, Thief 4 will follow in it's footsteps towards the console audience.

Which means that it will not be as good.

[QUOTE="mimic-Denmark"]

Ive played all the thief games, and grew up with them, and I still liked Thief3 best.

So dont put people that like Thief 3 the most, in the catagory to young to have played the first thief games.

Qixote

I have played the first thief games.

I loved deadly shadows. But I can't say its the best until I have played the others. After playing deadly shadows so far I can honestly say I am a fan. Shalebridge was so awesome. Hopefully I'll find a copy of the others soon and get to try them. Compared to other games I have played in the stealth genre I have to say thief was the best.

On the other hand there's got to be some reason as to why people love Thief 2 more than 3.Vfanek

[QUOTE="Vfanek"]On the other hand there's got to be some reason as to why people love Thief 2 more than 3.Qixote

No, I don't agree with that. Vfanek

There's got ot be something making people go back to the games, other than rose tinted glasses.Vfanek

Also look at all the published and user reviews or all the ratings for Thief 1 & 2. Compare them to Deadly Shadows. The numbers and overall consensus favors Thief 1 & 2. Tell all those people they are wrong.

[QUOTE="jfsebastianII"]

the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now

HenriH-42

You fail. :| Saying that games are bad because they're too old... No wonder no-one takes gaming seriously, I mean think if someone said that The Godfather sucks because it's too old. That's mega fail. Age, like graphics, do not matter at all.

Anyway, Thief 1 and 2 are the best games ever made, even better than Deus Ex, yes I enjoyed Thief 3 a lot but it was not as good as the first two. Thief 4 will not be nearly as good either.

yea that is true ... this reminds me of HAWX.. i was playing it.. and it sucked.. i went back to freespace 2 .. way better even though its old :P

I enjoyed the fact that they made it more sandbox and that u had to thief your way alot to get places. However they didn't have the atmosphere the first two had.

TDS isn't best in my opinion but T4 might be even better who knows.Eidos isn't that dumb to piss off lots of Thief series fans including me by ruining series with Thief 4

Thief 4 is going to be a kart racing game.

[QUOTE="jfsebastianII"]

the other two, whatever their pros, are just too old now

HenriH-42

You fail. :| Saying that games are bad because they're too old... No wonder no-one takes gaming seriously, I mean think if someone said that The Godfather sucks because it's too old. That's mega fail. Age, like graphics, do not matter at all.

Anyway, Thief 1 and 2 are the best games ever made, even better than Deus Ex, yes I enjoyed Thief 3 a lot but it was not as good as the first two. Thief 4 will not be nearly as good either.

this statement makes you sound like a real troll.

if your going to write it off before its even come out thats just daft.

and for the record, just cos a an old game instills a sense of nostalgia, does not make it better.

[QUOTE="Vfanek"] No, I don't agree with that. Qixote

There's got ot be something making people go back to the games, other than rose tinted glasses.Vfanek

Also look at all the published and user reviews or all the ratings for Thief 1 & 2. Compare them to Deadly Shadows. The numbers and overall consensus favors Thief 1 & 2. Tell all those people they are wrong.

this statement makes you sound like a real troll.

if your going to write it off before its even come out thats just daft.

and for the record, just cos a an old game instills a sense of nostalgia, does not make it better.

jpph

I really hate the nostalgia argument, it's pointless since I wasn't really hardcore gaming until around 2006. IF I WASN'T PLAYING THE GAME WHEN IT WAS RELEASED HOW CAN I BE NOSTALGIC ABOUT IT?

You know why Thief 4 won't be as good as the originals? It's directly related to the state of the industry. Here's an example; Does anyone seriously believe that Terminator 4 will be anywhere near as good as T1 and T2? The movie has not been released yet but everyone knows that it can't beat the classic, because 1: new director/writer (Eidos Montreal instead of Looking Glass) 2: There is no Arnold (Stephen Russell hasn't been yet confirmed for Garrett, but we'll see about that) 3: The industry is F'd up. They don't care about movie quality or anything except rehashes and sequels that make lots of money (Game industry is in similar "Hollywood" state right now. Casual games sell, hardcore games don't sell as much so game quality suffers.)

So, under the given circumstances, Thief 4 cannot match the pure awesomeness that Thief 1 and Thief 2 had.

Plus I really don't like the design choices of modern games, you know, casualization, dumbing down, regenerating health, crappy gameplay (IMO), stupidly large huds made for consoles in mind etc. Modern games just don't appeal to me, with certain exceptions - mainly the games made in East Europe.

i think the nostalgia argument does count for some people though equally a game with older graphics can still be good: i played SS2 within the last year - ok i used the updated graphics mod, but it's still an old game and i really enjoyed it - i'd still play Unreal again though that's pretty old again.

i'll play an older game right through and enjoy it if it's good, but Thief 2 i found really dull early on, and (no-one's come back on this by the way so i'll say it again) just too easy

[QUOTE="jpph"]

this statement makes you sound like a real troll.

if your going to write it off before its even come out thats just daft.

and for the record, just cos a an old game instills a sense of nostalgia, does not make it better.

HenriH-42

I really hate the nostalgia argument, it's pointless since I wasn't really hardcore gaming until around 2006. IF I WASN'T PLAYING THE GAME WHEN IT WAS RELEASED HOW CAN I BE NOSTALGIC ABOUT IT?

You know why Thief 4 won't be as good as the originals? It's directly related to the state of the industry. Here's an example; Does anyone seriously believe that Terminator 4 will be anywhere near as good as T1 and T2? The movie has not been released yet but everyone knows that it can't beat the classic, because 1: new director/writer (Eidos Montreal instead of Looking Glass) 2: There is no Arnold (Stephen Russell hasn't been yet confirmed for Garrett, but we'll see about that) 3: The industry is F'd up. They don't care about movie quality or anything except rehashes and sequels that make lots of money (Game industry is in similar "Hollywood" state right now. Casual games sell, hardcore games don't sell as much so game quality suffers.)

So, under the given circumstances, Thief 4 cannot match the pure awesomeness that Thief 1 and Thief 2 had.

Plus I really don't like the design choices of modern games, you know, casualization, dumbing down, regenerating health, crappy gameplay (IMO), stupidly large huds made for consoles in mind etc. Modern games just don't appeal to me, with certain exceptions - mainly the games made in East Europe.

well you make a fair point there

but, i wasnt saying that the nostalgia necessarily applied to you. because i didnt know when you played them. but it is a common misconception.

i still think its ridiculous to write something off before its even released, thats my underlying point. also (again, this may not apply to you) but people always remember things better than they are. you only remember the good times of stuff, of the extremely bad, not the in between if you see what i mean, and this leads people to saying irritating things like: we'll never return to the gaming heyday of the 90s or whatever

and the new terminator could be awesome, christian bale movies tend to be excellent.

poster "i rock socks", you are the one who fails. Your obvious childish argument and comebacks reek of fail.

omenodebander

[QUOTE="jpph"]

this statement makes you sound like a real troll.

if your going to write it off before its even come out thats just daft.

and for the record, just cos a an old game instills a sense of nostalgia, does not make it better.

HenriH-42

I really hate the nostalgia argument, it's pointless since I wasn't really hardcore gaming until around 2006. IF I WASN'T PLAYING THE GAME WHEN IT WAS RELEASED HOW CAN I BE NOSTALGIC ABOUT IT?

You know why Thief 4 won't be as good as the originals? It's directly related to the state of the industry. Here's an example; Does anyone seriously believe that Terminator 4 will be anywhere near as good as T1 and T2? The movie has not been released yet but everyone knows that it can't beat the classic, because 1: new director/writer (Eidos Montreal instead of Looking Glass) 2: There is no Arnold (Stephen Russell hasn't been yet confirmed for Garrett, but we'll see about that) 3: The industry is F'd up. They don't care about movie quality or anything except rehashes and sequels that make lots of money (Game industry is in similar "Hollywood" state right now. Casual games sell, hardcore games don't sell as much so game quality suffers.)

So, under the given circumstances, Thief 4 cannot match the pure awesomeness that Thief 1 and Thief 2 had.

Plus I really don't like the design choices of modern games, you know, casualization, dumbing down, regenerating health, crappy gameplay (IMO), stupidly large huds made for consoles in mind etc. Modern games just don't appeal to me, with certain exceptions - mainly the games made in East Europe.

i like how ur entire argument is based on "the industry" (this related to the "the man" or "the machince" i keep hearing about?) implying that game makers and movie makers didnt care about making money be4 a certain point and how change (or new) automatically equals bad (or atleast worst) and are you SO egocentric that you think everyone shares your opinion, "Does anyone seriously believe that Terminator 4 will be anywhere near as good as T1 and T2" i do, and i personally thought T1 sucked, but thats not even the point and im curious about ur involvement in "the industry" u seem to be making a lot of assumptions on their motivations and ur argument doesnt even sound like u dislike it cause its a poor quality game/movie but because they have the audacity to change the formula and if thats the case, fine but dont automatically **** on all other games (especially with no basis) just because you dont personally enjoy or see the draw to it also judging a game be4 you play (or a movie be4 you see) it is just childish, and i mean that quite literally, cause i havent judged something without seeing or playing it since i was 17. when your judging with no basis your pretty much just guessing, and you should never base your morals/opinions/actions on a guessi-rock-socks

*sigh* Ok,

I do not like modern games.

It's not because they are new, it's because I don't like the design choices of modern games - such as regenerative health, simplified gameplay, dumbed down for casuals etc.

I like certain modern games, as long as they still cater to the hardcore PC gamer audience. For example STALKER, Mount & Blade and Penumbra. Games that are multiplatform are almost always dumbed down for consoles these days.

I have played games from 1982 to this day - not saying that I was around when they were released, but I have played the games retrospectively. Games were improving in the 80's, especially in the 90's until around early 00's and slowly stopped during last and this generation. Game innovation and ambition have come to a halt, and are in some cases going backwards (for example Bioshock, made 10 years after SS2 and in every way worse)

Now, let's see.

The industry's current state is this; Big company's don't care about innovation, they only care about marketing the game to casuals.

Eidos is a big company? Check.

Thief 4 is going to be multiplatform? Check.

Thief 4 is going to be dumbed down? Check.

Dumbed down = not as good as they previous games.

So, Thief 4 will simply not be as good as the previous games.

There is, however, a VERY small chance that it will be good. For example, that Riddick game from the original Xbox. It was developed for consoles AND it was a movie license game = a recipe for crappiness. But, it turned out to be actually very good. The same thing might happen to Thief 4, and that's why I'm still excited about it.

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]i like how ur entire argument is based on "the industry" (this related to the "the man" or "the machince" i keep hearing about?) implying that game makers and movie makers didnt care about making money be4 a certain point and how change (or new) automatically equals bad (or atleast worst) and are you SO egocentric that you think everyone shares your opinion, "Does anyone seriously believe that Terminator 4 will be anywhere near as good as T1 and T2" i do, and i personally thought T1 sucked, but thats not even the point and im curious about ur involvement in "the industry" u seem to be making a lot of assumptions on their motivations and ur argument doesnt even sound like u dislike it cause its a poor quality game/movie but because they have the audacity to change the formula and if thats the case, fine but dont automatically **** on all other games (especially with no basis) just because you dont personally enjoy or see the draw to it also judging a game be4 you play (or a movie be4 you see) it is just childish, and i mean that quite literally, cause i havent judged something without seeing or playing it since i was 17. when your judging with no basis your pretty much just guessing, and you should never base your morals/opinions/actions on a guessHenriH-42

*sigh* Ok,

I do not like modern games.

It's not because they are new, it's because I don't like the design choices of modern games - such as regenerative health, simplified gameplay, dumbed down for casuals etc.

I like certain modern games, as long as they still cater to the hardcore PC gamer audience. For example STALKER, Mount & Blade and Penumbra. Games that are multiplatform are almost always dumbed down for consoles these days.

I have played games from 1982 to this day - not saying that I was around when they were released, but I have played the games retrospectively. Games were improving in the 80's, especially in the 90's until around early 00's and slowly stopped during last and this generation. Game innovation and ambition have come to a halt, and are in some cases going backwards (for example Bioshock, made 10 years after SS2 and in every way worse)

Now, let's see.

The industry's current state is this; Big company's don't care about innovation, they only care about marketing the game to casuals.

Eidos is a big company? Check.

Thief 4 is going to be multiplatform? Check.

Thief 4 is going to be dumbed down? Check.

Dumbed down = not as good as they previous games.

So, Thief 4 will simply not be as good as the previous games.

There is, however, a VERY small chance that it will be good. For example, that Riddick game from the original Xbox. It was developed for consoles AND it was a movie license game = a recipe for crappiness. But, it turned out to be actually very good. The same thing might happen to Thief 4, and that's why I'm still excited about it.

first of all you have no idea if that statement it true, and dont pretend that you do

also

thief 4 is going to be multiplatform? no platforms have been announced (altho it most likely will be)

thief 4 is going to be dumbed down? no gameplay has even been spoken about

regardless, dumbed down does not mean bad, its just a negative way of saying "more user friendly"

anyone could put negative spin on a word and make it sound like an insult

a very small chance? care to give a percentage and show your math? no. thats fine, i dont actually care, but thats again not my point, the point is ur judging things that havent come out on a factor that YOU (thats the person behind ur eyes) said was meaningless

youve gone from

age doesnt matter

to

only games from the 90's (which is an age) are good, with few exceptions

but w/e, it doesnt matter

to in extent i know how ya feel (i feel somewhat the same about standup comedy)

but you honestly think system shock 2 is better then bioshock in everyway?

well that stament is obviously not impartial, and im curious as to where your bias stems from.

but asking would be pointless, since i wouldnt get an honest response

"Big company's don't care about innovation"

first of all you have no idea if that statement it true, and dont pretend that you do

also

thief 4 is going to be multiplatform? no platforms have been announced (altho it most likely will be)

thief 4 is going to be dumbed down? no gameplay has even been spoken about

regardless, dumbed down does not mean bad, its just a negative way of saying "more user friendly"

anyone could put negative spin on a word and make it sound like an insult

a very small chance? care to give a percentage and show your math? no. thats fine, i dont actually care, but thats again not my point, the point is ur judging things that havent come out on a factor that YOU (thats the person behind ur eyes) said was meaningless

youve gone from

age doesnt matter

to

only games from the 90's (which is an age) are good, with few exceptions

but w/e, it doesnt matter

to in extent i know how ya feel (i feel somewhat the same about standup comedy)

but you honestly think system shock 2 is better then bioshock in everyway?

well that stament is obviously not impartial, and im curious as to where your bias stems from.

but asking would be pointless, since i wouldnt get an honest response

i-rock-socks

Every innovative and ambitious game has one thing in common - they are almost always made by smaller or indie devs. Big companies don't want innovation, they'd just rather focus on what is guaranteed to sell, like Halo or Call of Duty.

It is going to be multiplatform. That's pretty much guaranteed, since it's Eidos and I really don't think that they care about PC gamers that much to give us a PC exclusive game.

Of course it's going to be dumbed down, it's directly related to console multiplatform development. Almost all of the flaws in Thief 3 were caused by Xbox's dated hardware and limitations of a gamepad.

More user friendly? I really wouldn't call it that, I'd call it "simplify the game that those with ADHD and IQ under 30 can play it". All of the modern games are more focused on instant gratification that any complex game mechanics. For some, it might be a good thing but it sure as hell isn't for me. I love complex games, and my 100+ page instruction books (no kidding, Civilization II had something like 200 pages.)

No no, there are good games from all time periods. 90's just happens to be the period with the most amazing games. I'd rate 2000-2005 after the 90's, and 80's after that. There are good games released after 2005+, there's just not that many of them. Last year, for example, was pretty pathetic, with like under 5 half-way decent games.

System Shock 2 IS superior to Bioshock in every way, except graphics of course, but if someone cares about "TEH HD NEXT GEN BLOOM GRAPHIXX" then he's not a gamer. Every part of SS2 is better than Bioshock. Bioshock was dumbed down, for example: No leaning, no inventory, you're literally swimming in resources, no walk/run button, casual difficulty (you can't die, period), linear levels (System Shock 2 at least FELT non-linear) etc. It's a prime example of dumbing down, or consolitis as some like to call it.

[QUOTE="Qixote"]

[QUOTE="Vfanek"] Then don't. Your loss. [QUOTE="Vfanek"] There's got ot be something making people go back to the games, other than rose tinted glasses.Vfanek

Also look at all the published and user reviews or all the ratings for Thief 1 & 2. Compare them to Deadly Shadows. The numbers and overall consensus favors Thief 1 & 2. Tell all those people they are wrong.

I read your post fine. What I have quoted you saying makes it quite clear. You quit playing Thief 2 too soon because the graphics were dated. You said it, not me.