This might shock some of you but Blizzard did not create the first MMO

I have noticed that a lot of people on this board seem to call every new MMO a WoW clone. Now I think WoW is probably one of if not the best PC game ever made but I find it really annoying how every new MMO is accused of trying to copy WoW. The fact is WoW pulled in a crap load of new players to the MMO genre so now a lot of other companies are trying to get a piece of the pie.

But WoW/Blizzard did not reinvent the wheel for MMOs. It didnt really do anything new when it first launched. You could have easily said Blizzard copied other games such as DOAC andEQ and so on. Now sure Blizzard did it MUCH better than the others and over the years they have added a lot of new features and whatnot that other games haven't.

The reason I bring this up is because I see a lot of people call SWTOR a WoW clone and to be honest it feels no more like WoW than it does EQ2 or any other MMO. The fact is that WoW is the only MMO most of you can compare it to.

That's all...just had to say it.

WoW clone is a term people use to describe a genaric looking MMO who's gameplay is rooted in the conventions that WoW uses.

We all know that WoW wasn't the first, but it tied together a lot of aspects of earlier MMOs and polished the mechanics to a shine. It has been the gold standard of MMOs since 2005. To say something is a WoW clone shouldn't be an insult. WoW has survived all of these years and the only MMOs that have truely done any good have followed in its footsteps.

Since WoW there hasn't been many major MMOs that have tried to deviate from that style of gameplay. Raids, dungeons, instances, PvP, classes, level design, basic combat mechanics, quest structure, almost all of it in most modern MMOs follows what WoW does.

Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.

As previously stated. WoW did nothing new, except for its execution and how it put all these elements together. In turn, WoW created its own formula.

When games copy this formula without doing enough to freshen it up or expand upon it, they end up feeling like WoW clones. Thus the issue. A game can be a themepark mmo without being a WoW clone, City of Heroes is a good example of this.

WoW clone is a term people use to describe a genaric looking MMO who's gameplay is rooted in the conventions that WoW uses.Wasdie

That's my point..kind of. WoW's gameplay is not too much different than any other MMO including the ones that came before it. So should we say that TOR is an EQ clone?

Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.Wasdie

Again..most MMOs feel the same way. Just because WoW has been the most successful doesn't mean everyone is copying WoW but more that they are copying WoW and every other MMO in the past.

That's how I see it anyway. Just because WoW has been the most successful does not mean that every game is a WoW clone.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

WoW clone is a term people use to describe a genaric looking MMO who's gameplay is rooted in the conventions that WoW uses.BSC14

That's my point..kind of. WoW's gameplay is not too much different than any other MMO including the ones that came before it. So should we say that TOR is an EQ clone?

Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.Wasdie

Again..most MMOs feel the same way. Just because WoW has been the most successful doesn't mean everyone is copying WoW but more that they are copying WoW and every other MMO in the past.

That's how I see it anyway. Just because WoW has been the most successful does not mean that every game is a WoW clone.

Regarding Quote,

1. The difference between WoW and EQ are much bigger than the difference between WoW and SWTOR.
2. Not really. The mmo genre is pretty darn diverse. The differences alone between say SWG and SWTOR are quite astounding despite both being based on the same IP. Then there are titles like Planetside, Mythos, City of Heroes, and heck Guild Wars if you consider that an mmo. That is not even looking at upcoming titles such as ArcheAge, PlanetSide 2, FireFall, Guild Wars 2, TERA, WoD and Salem. WoW set up the formula, which everyone else is following, hence why they are called WoW clones.

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

That's my point..kind of. WoW's gameplay is not too much different than any other MMO including the ones that came before it. So should we say that TOR is an EQ clone?

[QUOTE="Wasdie"] Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.Maroxad

Again..most MMOs feel the same way. Just because WoW has been the most successful doesn't mean everyone is copying WoW but more that they are copying WoW and every other MMO in the past.

That's how I see it anyway. Just because WoW has been the most successful does not mean that every game is a WoW clone.

Regarding Quote,

1. The difference between WoW and EQ are much bigger than the difference between WoW and SWTOR.
2. Not really. The mmo genre is pretty darn diverse. The differences alone between say SWG and SWTOR are quite astounding despite both being based on the same IP. Then there are titles like Planetside, Mythos, City of Heroes, and heck Guild Wars if you consider that an mmo. That is not even looking at upcoming titles such as ArcheAge, PlanetSide 2, FireFall, Guild Wars 2, TERA, WoD and Salem. WoW set up the formula, which everyone else is following, hence why they are called WoW clones.

I understand what you're saying but I just don't see it that way. To me it's just an evolution of MMOs that WoW contributed to just like every other MMO has.

The main difference between WoW and the other MMO's is the success of WoW. Because of wow's incredible level of success there's a grain of truth to calling games that came after being called 'WoW clones'. The reason is that those games are indeed trying to mirror, copy or replicate the secretly sauce that resulted in 10 million subscribers.

I guess it would be fair to call WoW and EQ clone since it was the game WoW most clearly emulated, just like I think it's fair to call SWTOR a WoW clone since it's pretty clear what game the SWTOR developers was looking at as their prime source of inspiration.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

WoW clone is a term people use to describe a genaric looking MMO who's gameplay is rooted in the conventions that WoW uses.BSC14

That's my point..kind of. WoW's gameplay is not too much different than any other MMO including the ones that came before it. So should we say that TOR is an EQ clone?

Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.Wasdie

Again..most MMOs feel the same way. Just because WoW has been the most successful doesn't mean everyone is copying WoW but more that they are copying WoW and every other MMO in the past.

That's how I see it anyway. Just because WoW has been the most successful does not mean that every game is a WoW clone.

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

That's my point..kind of. WoW's gameplay is not too much different than any other MMO including the ones that came before it. So should we say that TOR is an EQ clone?

[QUOTE="Wasdie"] Not every game has been like that, but the majority of major MMOs that have been hyped to be the next big thing all really feel like WoW when you look past the changes of the UI and graphics.PC360Wii

Again..most MMOs feel the same way. Just because WoW has been the most successful doesn't mean everyone is copying WoW but more that they are copying WoW and every other MMO in the past.

That's how I see it anyway. Just because WoW has been the most successful does not mean that every game is a WoW clone.

Well there is the school of thought of playing it safe. People know and love the classes from WoW more or less, so instead of trying to make drastic changes that people may hate, it's just easier to copy stuff people know. It stalls gameplay innovation over time but it is kind of a guarentee that people won't outright hate your class design.

SWTOR was a massive WoW clone though, they didn't do much to make it different. They really wanted to focus on the whole narrative and quest side of thing while not touching the gameplay much.

Guild Wars 2 looks to be the next major innovation. As NCSoft shows, innovation like that takes years of development time. That's why we haven't seen GW2 on the market yet.

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

xLittlekillx

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

DanielDust

What?

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

xLittlekillx

What?

I would like a unique game, doesn't matter mmo or not. Though if it starts to hender the good game aspect of it, than I would rather not bother.

I would rather have a good game, than a unique game.

Though if the unique game is still good, well then I will be there ready for it too.

Don't mind the water drop on the web of nonsense.

Also most gamers know that WOW isn't the first MMO. Even though they act like it sometimes lol.

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

DanielDust

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

kaealy

Yep....

In my opinion it is the best PC game ever made. I like Blizzard but I'm not some crazy fanboy.....I bought StarCraft and found it way overrated for example. Still any game that can keep me paying and playing for the amount of time I spent in WoW is in fact an amazing game.

But you know...to each his own.

Who thought WOW was the first MMO?

a.i think most people know that by now

b. not the first but the most succesful and the one everyone seems to be trying to copy

c. they cal it wow clone, because dum dum dum they try to copy wow, as far as i know there are no "ultima clones"

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

DanielDust

succesful =/= best

Your example is SWTOR a game that the devs even admit heavily copying? The jedi shadow class is essentially so similar to the rogue its a joke.PC360Wii

Of course they useda lot of ideas from WoW...and yeah some of the classes are similar. I do think they played it safe as well but it's a typical (and good imo) MMO and just because it's a typical MMO does not mean it's a WoW clone. Just my opinion but not every gameis a clone just because it doesn't do something completly new and never seen before. To me it's just another MMO....not a clone.

Dear opinionated people, we are talking facts, I do not care at all about your personal vendetta and a small FYI Jabby, Lilk is a known pathetic Blizzard troll, you'll have better luck next time when you actually try to back up some"thing" worthwhile.

WoW is one of the best games ever made in the entire gaming history whether you like it or not (nobody likes any single "greatest game", for example I think HL is terrible, doesn't change the fact that it's one of the greatest) and it's by far the most ambitious game ever created.

Dear opinionated people, we are talking facts, I do not care at all about your personal vendetta and a small FYI Jabby, Lilk is a known pathetic Blizzard troll, you'll have better luck next time when you actually try to back up some"thing" worthwhile.

WoW is one of the best games ever made in the entire gaming history whether you like it or not (nobody likes any single "greatest game", for example I think HL is terrible, doesn't change the fact that it's one of the greatest) and it's by far the most ambitious game ever created.

DanielDust

dear dumb poster, we don't care what you call "facts" you are too dumb to realize that is your opinion too. So dear dumb poster you fail. That is all.

EQ clone would work, but WoW is more popular. For people not familiar with MMOs, it is better to say WoW clone instead of EQ clone. They will understand and you won't have to explain it.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]

Dear opinionated people, we are talking facts, I do not care at all about your personal vendetta and a small FYI Jabby, Lilk is a known pathetic Blizzard troll, you'll have better luck next time when you actually try to back up some"thing" worthwhile.

WoW is one of the best games ever made in the entire gaming history whether you like it or not (nobody likes any single "greatest game", for example I think HL is terrible, doesn't change the fact that it's one of the greatest) and it's by far the most ambitious game ever created.

Krelian-co

dear dumb poster, we don't care what you call "facts" you are too dumb to realize that is your opinion too. So dear dumb poster you fail. That is all.

Who thought WOW was the first MMO?kozzy1234

I always found that statement used as a means of trolling people, moreso than anyone actually believing it.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

Krelian-co

succesful =/= best

The game wouldn't have 10 million subscribers (some 60% market share) SEVEN YEARS after launch if it wasn't the best option in the genre.

The fact is that Blizzard controls the gold-standard title in THREE separate genres...a fact that no other developer on the planet can match. It didn't happen by accident...

No one played MMOs before WoW. So it is only natural for everyone to refer to the first popular MMO.

Oh my god, you just made a brilliant discovery. You should win something..

I have noticed that a lot of people on this board seem to call every new MMO a WoW clone. Now I think WoW is probably one of if not the best PC game ever made but I find it really annoying how every new MMO is accused of trying to copy WoW. The fact is WoW pulled in a crap load of new players to the MMO genre so now a lot of other companies are trying to get a piece of the pie.

But WoW/Blizzard did not reinvent the wheel for MMOs. It didnt really do anything new when it first launched. You could have easily said Blizzard copied other games such as DOAC andEQ and so on. Now sure Blizzard did it MUCH better than the others and over the years they have added a lot of new features and whatnot that other games haven't.

The reason I bring this up is because I see a lot of people call SWTOR a WoW clone and to be honest it feels no more like WoW than it does EQ2 or any other MMO. The fact is that WoW is the only MMO most of you can compare it to.

That's all...just had to say it.

BSC14

SWTOR can't be a WOW clone it SUCS

WoW set the bar at the height it is now. That's why people call them WoW clones.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Do you seriously think WoW is one of the best PC games ever made?

Krelian-co

succesful =/= best

I tried WoW once. It was so boring. I mean, holy crap, new levels of "why am I actually sitting here and playing this" boring.

To say something is a WoW clone shouldn't be an insult. WoW has survived all of these years and the only MMOs that have truely done any good have followed in its footsteps.Wasdie

If Blizzard developed a good PvP MMO they could dominate the market..

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="DanielDust"] That much is fact mister Blizzard troll post of the day.Bruin1986

succesful =/= best

The game wouldn't have 10 million subscribers (some 60% market share) SEVEN YEARS after launch if it wasn't the best option in the genre.

The fact is that Blizzard controls the gold-standard title in THREE separate genres...a fact that no other developer on the planet can match. It didn't happen by accident...

a simple analogy to destroy that argument is the mcdonals restaurant. Best food? hell no. Accesible, ofc.

[QUOTE="Bruin1986"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

succesful =/= best

Krelian-co

The game wouldn't have 10 million subscribers (some 60% market share) SEVEN YEARS after launch if it wasn't the best option in the genre.

The fact is that Blizzard controls the gold-standard title in THREE separate genres...a fact that no other developer on the planet can match. It didn't happen by accident...

a simple analogy to destroy that argument is the mcdonals restaurant. Best food? hell no. Accesible, ofc.

I don't think people believe it was the first around, just the best and most successful around - and the numbers can't be argued you with, definitely a benchmark of success

SWTOR can't be a WOW clone it SUCS

Darocy

Wow, great post! Very deep...so much substance.

By WoW clone, they mean a 'theme-park' MMO, based around instanced content and non-existent open world gameplay and no player interaction or community metagame. This is the type of MMO that's most popular, as WoW did this first and brought the genre to a 'wider audience'.

[QUOTE="Bruin1986"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

succesful =/= best

Krelian-co

The game wouldn't have 10 million subscribers (some 60% market share) SEVEN YEARS after launch if it wasn't the best option in the genre.

The fact is that Blizzard controls the gold-standard title in THREE separate genres...a fact that no other developer on the planet can match. It didn't happen by accident...

a simple analogy to destroy that argument is the mcdonals restaurant. Best food? hell no. Accesible, ofc.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]To say something is a WoW clone shouldn't be an insult. WoW has survived all of these years and the only MMOs that have truely done any good have followed in its footsteps.jhalter1

That's all...just had to say it.

BSC14

No, you really hadn't. It was really completely unnecessary. Scratch that, it *is* completely unnecessary.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="Bruin1986"] ...but it provides the most objective correlation anyone can provide.

The game wouldn't have 10 million subscribers (some 60% market share) SEVEN YEARS after launch if it wasn't the best option in the genre.

The fact is that Blizzard controls the gold-standard title in THREE separate genres...a fact that no other developer on the planet can match. It didn't happen by accident...

Bruin1986

a simple analogy to destroy that argument is the mcdonals restaurant. Best food? hell no. Accesible, ofc.

They're actually very accessible: even their strategy games, a genre which normally tends to have some of the most complex games on the market are comparably more simplistic than the competition. Blizzard doesn't appear to need Steam since their games are already accessible enough, if we're talking sales. They're usually at every internet cafe you go to, played by some random 11 year old(s)

Also, they've always been concerned with maximizing profit -- which is why you'll probably never see a singleplayer Blizzard game again.

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

That's all...just had to say it.

N30F3N1X

No, you really hadn't. It was really completely unnecessary. Scratch that, it *is* completely unnecessary.

In truth I did not HAVE to post this. But see I can post whatever I like. Your reply also is "completely unnecessary" yet you did reply.

In truth I did not HAVE to post this. But see I can post whatever I like. Your reply also is "completely unnecessary" yet you did reply.

BSC14

So? I didn't start anything. You did.

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

In truth I did not HAVE to post this. But see I can post whatever I like. Your reply also is "completely unnecessary" yet you did reply.

N30F3N1X

So? I didn't start anything. You did.

So? You replied. You didn't have to.

So? You replied. You didn't have to.

BSC14

You must feel so cool now that you've said that.

Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works, right?

Your thread doesn't have a point, so why make it?

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

So? You replied. You didn't have to.

N30F3N1X

You must feel so cool now that you've said that.

Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works, right?

Your thread doesn't have a point, so why make it?

Well your point in your original reply was that I did not HAVE to post this and I agreed. However you also did not have to reply yet you did decide to.

The point of my topic was that every MMO is called a WoW clone. And for a lot of people WoW was the first MMO they played and this is part of the reason these particular people choose to call it a "clone".

It's my opinion that WoW is a big step in the MMO world but it's also just a part of the evolution of MMO gaming. Some people think that EVERY new mmo is just a WoW copy and in my opinion that is not the case. MMOs like every other kind of game out there borrow and steal from what works. Blizzard did this and made an amazing game and the trend continues.

This is my opinion only of course and this is a forum where we talk about games. So you see this topic has gone on for 3 or 4 pages now so if there were "no point" we would have nothing to talk about. Unless you mean "no point" because you do not agree.

Now I'm off to get a new Razer Naga mouse...have a good day.

Oh and yeah...I feel so cool.

If an mmo passes this definition, I classify it as a WoW clone.

Progression: Level based, and at level cap there is an emphasis on PvEing in instanced Zones. In these instanced Zones the main challenge will come from gimmicky bosses with a certain mechanic to help keep them fresh and varied.
Character Customization: There is character customization as well, with players being able to choose between putting points in THREE specific talent trees to amplify their abilities in a certain role. Some cIasses may have more than one tree per spec.
Itemization: The items found will be built around a certain cIass/spec combo. For instance, there will be feral druid armor which is a pretty much an obvious upgrade from item Z, but obviously inferior to item Y.
PvE: Most PvE will take placed in instanced zones, in the world there may be some quests. But dungeons which are the meat of the PvE, are always instanced with each group getting their own copy of said zone. On the bright side this means that encounters are a lot easier to balance, it also means players can safetly do their PvE without fear of competition from others. On the bad side it pretty much kills the Massively Multiplayer part turning the overworld into little more than an interactive Lobby. Furthermore, Dungeons are always linear.
PvP: World PvP is heavily de-emphasised with an overwhelming majority of the PvPing done in instanced areas. The instanced areas are either objective based Battlegrounds or Arenas that are usually designed with competitive PvP in mind.
Combat: WoW, its clones (and unfortunately several other games) uses a holy trinity combat which is composed of 3 roles: The tank, the damage dealer and the healer. It is ALWAYS 3 roles, which is quite a change from the EQ days where there were far more roles. Combat is hotkey based as well.
Skill Design: Some WoW clones may very well end up copying a lot of the abilities from WoW. SWTOR is a big offender in this regard.
Misc: May try to go with one or 2 gimmicks to make it stand out. Such as the large emphasis on story while levelling in SWTOR or Rifts in RIFT.