Upgrading a video card, don't know what I should look out for

Hi,

I'm new to finally posting on GameSpot, but have visited the site on and off for about two years now, mostly for reviews. So hello! :D

Before I say anything, let me just say that I have looked at the video card upgrade guide before posting this, and I'm no stranger to working with the insides of a PC - just that I'm extremely careful when I do so.

I bought a new system around about a year and a half ago, and it was a huge upgrade from my crummy old computer from way back when. I purchased it from Dell who said the thing would be expandable for years to come. The amount of memory is about all I have upgraded in the system, as that's the only thing I know how to upgrade. But when it comes to video cards and processors, I haven't got the slightest idea what I'm doing, and from what I understand, those two things are the biggest factors in making or breaking PC gaming.

First let me give a rundown of my system, so you get an idea of where I stand as far as my technical know-how:

What I know for sure:
Processor: Intel Pentium D 2.8 Ghz Dual-Core
Memory: 3GB (Was initially 1GB, but upgraded.)
Video Card: nVidia GeForce 6800 (I don't know if it's GT, GS, Ultra, or whatever, it doesn't say.)
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
Operating System: Windows XP MCE 2005 SP2
Power Supply Unit: 650W, at least that's what the technical specs of the book that Dell gave me says. I would venture a guess Dell made the power supply.
Hard drive: Seagate drive, not sure of exact model, 160GB capacity, SATA-II. Not sure of the RPMs on it, I would venture a guess at 7,200.

What I have, but not sure about:
CD-ROM drive: Don't know read speeds, write speeds, or even what model it is.
DVD drive: Same as above.
Motherboard: Not sure on this either, but I believe I have an nVidia nForce4 Intel x16, if that sounds at all right.

I want to upgrade the video card, but have heard that if the motherboard/power supply cannot handle it, it may fry the chip/motherboard/processor/whatever. I've only heard of this happening seldomly and usually I've heard it happen with people who have overclocked their components. I have no interest in overclocking, just getting games to run at a satisfactory rate.

I tested a few games at the system requirements lab website, particularly recent games that I'm interested in purchasing. I even tried the BioShock Demo and it ran extremely slow. But when I turned off everything, it ran just peachy, although very stripped down. I don't know if it was just BioShock or not, but games like FEAR, Prey and Half-Life 2 I can run with almost absolutely no problems or stripping down any of the graphics.

So I have a few questions:

Being entirely new to upgrading anything besides memory, are there any safety issues with upgrading a video card? Like damage to the components inside the PC or safety hazards to me? One thing I was always told with memory was to properly ground myself of static electricity before inserting memory.

Up to this point I've only had experiences with using nVidia cards, and I've never used an ATI card. Could I put an ATI card into this machine, with the information I've given and have it actually work just fine? If not, why?

With upgrading, will I need a new power supply or will the one I have work fine with a newer card? I've seen cards with abnormally high power requirements like 700W+, particularly the higher end cards. Cost of a gaming upgrade is why I ask this. I'd rather avoid the extra expense if I can.

In relation to the above, what recommendations would you have for a nice mid-range card that still packs a noticeable punch, but is not insanely wallet-busting/computer-frying? I have my eyes set on a GeForce 8 series card, but not sure if the power supply can run it, or if there are any cheap GeForce 8 cards out there. The information in the post on system requirements didn't mention this series of cards. I guess I'm open to an ATI card as well if I can take one, but not sure how the model numbers go from low end to high end.

I hope someone here can help out this poor PC gaming newbie... Really would love to get into heavy PC gaming, but if I don't have the speed to handle it, it seems better to just get a next-gen console. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. :)

Edit: Insofar as I know, the system does not use AGP for the video card, it uses PCI Express X16, if that matters at all in video cards.

one word "8800gt" it is going to be around 250 bucks, it packs a seriuos punch and will work awesomely with your power supply, the only thing is that you will most likely bottleneck your processor in which case you should upgrade to a core 2 duo. im not sure weather or not the socket type in your board will support a core 2 but you should do some investigating. also if you decided to go ati it should work fine as long as you get the right drivers.yellowdatsun

He's right, the 8800gt would be perfect for you! But, there is two things you must know for sure before you upgrade 1. You must have a PCI-E 16 slot on your motherboard. The 6800 you have comes in both AGP and PCI-E 16 types. 2. You must know for sure about your PSU. You should be able to find out both by going to your computers online manual at Dell.

Some very good information here, you've provided everything we need except one small detail - whether or not your power supply comes with a PCI-e connector. It's a 6-pin cable that looks like your CPU connector with two extra pins. Google has some good pictures if you don't know what I'm talking about. See if there's one hooked up to your graphics card right now, but make sure it's a 6-pin connector, not a 4-pin Molex connector. If not, see if there's one tied up in a wire bundle somewhere in the case.

Regarding your current graphics card, it's most likely a vanilla 6800 if there's no suffix listed. They do exist, and while they're not terribly powerful graphics cards, they're better than LE versions.

Your power supply is more than enough for any single graphics card on the market. Say what you will about Dell, but their power supplies are better than most, and do generally put out what they're rated for.

Ragarding safety, take all the precautions you would with RAM. Uninstalling a graphics card should go like this:

Clean out any old drivers from your video card - uninstall them, and preferably clean them out with a utility like Driver Cleaner Pro, then turn off your machine. Remove the screw from the expansion port holding the graphics card in place, and don't lose it. Your PCI-e slot should have a lever towards the front of your case. Push/pull it so it releases the card, then gently remove it. Installation is pretty much the same process backwards, although you shouldn't have to mess with the lever, just make sure it clicks. Video cards are NOT like RAM in that they require very little effort to slot. A light push should suffice to get that click. Screw it back into the expansion port, and you're all set. Boot back up, and install video drivers (I'd go straight to the website rather than use the ones on the disk). I will point out that if you're installing a dual-slot video card you should take out the blanker for the expansion slot before installing the new one.

As for graphics companies, it doesn't matter. Any graphics card can be installed in any motherboard with the appropriate slot without a difference in performance, it's only dual-GPU setups that get more complex.

So now you've got all that down, let's get to card selection. I'll assume a budget of less than $300.

Assuming you DO NOT have a PCI-e connector on your power supply:

You won't be spending $300. $150 should be more than enough. Your primary candidates right now are the Radeon HD2600XT and the GeForce 8600GT. Both cards have their strengths and weaknesses and neither require an external PCI-e connector. They'll be a reasonable step up from your current 6800, and should run you anywhere between $100-$140. Do NOT buy an 8600GTS if you dont' have the PCI-e connector, as it requires one, and in this scenario you don't have the connector required. Given these cards performance, don't be fooled by things like 512MB of Video RAM - 256MB is the most they can use effectively, so don't pay extra for something that won't help (or might even hurt) performance. There are GDDR4 versions of the HD2600XT available, although they're generally not worth their $150 price tag compared to the GDDR3 versions you can get for $100.

Assuming you do have a PCI-e connector:
WAIT! There's a mid-range graphics war occuring this month and next month, with ATI releasing their H3870 and HD3850 cards, and Nvidia releasing their 8800GT and re-releasing the 8800GTS 640MB. These cards will pack a hell of a punch for their price, and will offer exceptional performance for their price. My honest advice would be to either keep browsing here or come back in a month and see what the situation is.

one word "8800gt" it is going to be around 250 bucks, it packs a seriuos punch and will work awesomely with your power supply, the only thing is that you will most likely bottleneck your processor in which case you should upgrade to a core 2 duo. im not sure weather or not the socket type in your board will support a core 2 but you should do some investigating. also if you decided to go ati it should work fine as long as you get the right drivers.yellowdatsun

Socket type is fine (Pentium D were LGA 775 only), it's the chipset he needs to worry about.

[QUOTE="yellowdatsun"]one word "8800gt" it is going to be around 250 bucks, it packs a seriuos punch and will work awesomely with your power supply, the only thing is that you will most likely bottleneck your processor in which case you should upgrade to a core 2 duo. im not sure weather or not the socket type in your board will support a core 2 but you should do some investigating. also if you decided to go ati it should work fine as long as you get the right drivers.RayvinAzn

Socket type is fine (Pentium D were LGA 775 only), it's the chipset he needs to worry about.

Yes, my card runs on a PCI Express X16 slot, as I mentioned. Even though I had a feeling it ran on it, I checked to make sure. After reading the replies I opened up my case and got a few shots, just so you get an idea of where the card is.

The card itself:
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6021/cardgq7.jpg

The slots next to the card:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9787/pcislotshg8.jpg
(Although you can't see it in the picture, the larger slot that's open below the smaller one also appears to be an X16 slot, as it reads that in tiny letters above the slot on the board itself. The card next to that is my sound card.)

I tried to check for the PCI-E cable as mentioned, but there was no such cord running out of the card except a cord running out of the card, then back into the card. (I'm guessing that's the video card fan cord.) My manual mentioned no way to access the power supply at all, so I decided to call Dell tech support. I asked them if there was any way to access the power supply to see the cables connected to it, because I wanted to find out if there was a PCI-E connector. What he told me is that all the wires that would be connected to the power supply run from the motherboard (You can see the white mold with all the wires coming out of it in the first picture.) into the power supply which is at the very base of the computer. That didn't tell me a lot, so I asked him plain out if a 8800GT card would work in this thing. He checked out the specs of the power supply and told me flat out no.

What he said was related to voltage. Now I don't know the voltage on this thing but he says that card would require a power supply capable of putting out 425V. I don't know what relation that has to the wattage of the power supply, but somehow I find it a bit hard to believe. He also stated that the card may not fit, and that when I close the case I risk smashing the card to bits with the hard drives. (The case is a tool-less one, folds right open.) That, or when I insert the card, it risks brushing up against other parts, either motherboard or not and damaging them.

Frankly I don't know what to think. But then again my warranty with them is up and they warned me that if we did any lengthy troubleshooting that he would have to charge me.

Processor is another story entirely. I'm open to upgrading it sometime in the future, but I've no idea what to look for as far as technical specs go. All I really know is the general rule that if it's got a faster clock speed and more cores (Quad or Dual) that it's overall faster.

Any ideas? Do you think he was right?

Edit: Oh yeah, yes, my budget would be at about 200-300. I don't want to spend too heavily.

The guy you talked to you had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think he told you anything that was even remotely correct. If you've got no PCI-e connector, we can recommend a power supply that has one if you give us a budget.kodex1717

Therein lies the problem however - they told me of no way to access the power supply to even see the guts, much less remove it from the system and replace it with another. There's also nothing in the owner's manual that says how to remove it, but it details how to remove everything else. Kind of weird if you ask me, but there must be a reason behind it, or not... But I don't know why they wouldn't tell me. All I know is that all of the wires run out of the motherboard, underneath a fan in the computer and dissapear into what I would guess would be the power supply at the bottom of the computer.

Therein lies the problem however - they told me of no way to access the power supply to even see the guts, much less remove it from the system and replace it with another. There's also nothing in the owner's manual that says how to remove it, but it details how to remove everything else. Kind of weird if you ask me, but there must be a reason behind it, or not... But I don't know why they wouldn't tell me. All I know is that all of the wires run out of the motherboard, underneath a fan in the computer and dissapear into what I would guess would be the power supply at the bottom of the computer.

Starbound571

But wait - as for video card, did you mean to say 8600GT, or was that a typo and it's 8800GT? I'm sure there's a difference unless they're not all that different as far as memory or other specs goes.

Starbound571

If you don't have the 6-pin PCI-e connectors you won't be able to run an 8800GT card - you might be able to get it working with one of those Molex-PCI-e adapters, but I've heard those can damage your card over time.

Okay, I had a quick look on eBay and nVidia's website at the 8600GT... Just have a few questions.

Is $95-115 really the price on this thing? It sounds almost too good to be true, but I could be wrong.

As far as video memory goes, I should need no more than a 256MB card right?

I've noticed in the past that nVidia has seemingly had other companies such as PNY, EVGA, MSI and the likes on them, I guess they made the chip for the card - does it matter what one I choose here, or are they all the same in terms of performance, just different manufacturer?

Clock speeds is what I don't understand on the card - some say overclocked and only have a few mhz more than a (I guess) factory settings card... For clock speed, what would be acceptable? The average seems to be 540mhz, and 580mhz for overclocked/superclocked variants. Want to avoid the overclocked.

They also seem to have different memory architecture, I would take a wild stab in the dark and assume GDDR3 and not DDR3 is what I would want in the card. Is this correct, or is this determined by something else?

Thanks for all the help so far!

Okay, I had a quick look on eBay and nVidia's website at the 8600GT... Just have a few questions.

Is $95-115 really the price on this thing? It sounds almost too good to be true, but I could be wrong.

Starbound571

the card people are talking about here is 8800 GT. not 8600 GT. note that 8800 GT has not even been released yet, so you'll have to wait for a while to get your hands on one. price tag is going to be around $250 for the 512MB version.

EDIT: okay, so RayvinAzn was talking about 8600 GT, and it's something like $100. not so good though, but you'll be able to play at least.

1: Yes, the 8600GT is around $100 (as is the HD2600XT) - but do keep in mind that it's a mid-range card, not high-end or even performance. It'll do okay in games, and since you're limited to cards without a PCI-e connector, this is pretty much the best you're going to get.

2: Nvidia does let companies like XFX, BFG, PNY, etc. market the cards - there are no actual "Nvidia" brand cards like ATI has. This isn't a bad thing and the manufacturer you pick does not matter as far as reliability goes - however there is warranty, bundles, overclocking, coolers, even PCB colors to consider. Granted, the 8600/HD2600 cards don't need super-powerful cooler, but it's still nice to have something that might be quieter and more efficient than the stock fan. Hell, you could even go fanless, but I'd make sure your case has good airflow before going that route. The Nvidia companies that are generally considered the best are XFX, EVGA, and BFG. They all offer Lifetime or better warranties, and good customer service. On the ATI side of things, Sapphire, HIS, and GeCube are widely considered the best, although none of them offer lifetime warranties. ATI itself is good of course, but their cards are usually more expensive.

3: Overclocked cards can be a good deal as long as you're not paying through the nose for them. A few extra dollars isn't a big deal, but when you start getting over $10 or so, you're not really getting your money's worth. Stock speed is perfectly acceptable in a card though, and will be just fine.

4: Regarding memory types, DDR3 is likely just a mislabeling of GDDR3 - all graphics memory is "GDDRX", there's no difference between them. Do note that there are GDDR4 variants of the HD2600XT - however, if they cost more than $130 or so they're really not worth it, as they're not much faster than their GDDR3 brethren. I don't believe either the HD2600XT or the 8600GT were ever made using GDDR2, but if you do see one that is, avoid it like the plague. And yes, 265MB is perfect for those cards.

1: Yes, the 8600GT is around $100 (as is the HD2600XT) - but do keep in mind that it's a mid-range card, not high-end or even performance. It'll do okay in games, and since you're limited to cards without a PCI-e connector, this is pretty much the best you're going to get.

2: Nvidia does let companies like XFX, BFG, PNY, etc. market the cards - there are no actual "Nvidia" brand cards like ATI has. This isn't a bad thing and the manufacturer you pick does not matter as far as reliability goes - however there is warranty, bundles, overclocking, coolers, even PCB colors to consider. Granted, the 8600/HD2600 cards don't need super-powerful cooler, but it's still nice to have something that might be quieter and more efficient than the stock fan. Hell, you could even go fanless, but I'd make sure your case has good airflow before going that route. The Nvidia companies that are generally considered the best are XFX, EVGA, and BFG. They all offer Lifetime or better warranties, and good customer service. On the ATI side of things, Sapphire, HIS, and GeCube are widely considered the best, although none of them offer lifetime warranties. ATI itself is good of course, but their cards are usually more expensive.

3: Overclocked cards can be a good deal as long as you're not paying through the nose for them. A few extra dollars isn't a big deal, but when you start getting over $10 or so, you're not really getting your money's worth. Stock speed is perfectly acceptable in a card though, and will be just fine.

4: Regarding memory types, DDR3 is likely just a mislabeling of GDDR3 - all graphics memory is "GDDRX", there's no difference between them. Do note that there are GDDR4 variants of the HD2600XT - however, if they cost more than $130 or so they're really not worth it, as they're not much faster than their GDDR3 brethren. I don't believe either the HD2600XT or the 8600GT were ever made using GDDR2, but if you do see one that is, avoid it like the plague. And yes, 265MB is perfect for those cards.

RayvinAzn

Thank you so much for the reply, very much appreciated.

However, I think I'm not yet ready to give up on the possibility of an 8800GT just yet. After doing a bit of searching around the net, I managed to run into this thread, which has almost the sameexact problem as I am. He has a Dell XPS 600, which is my PC model, and has the same card:

http://secure.ncix.com/forumpost/displaythread.php?threadid=1411890

In the thread there, he mentions that he was trying to find out if he had the connector that's been mentioned. He managed to find two connectors in the PC labeled "P4" and "P5" respectively. The first time I opened the case and got a look inside I saw those connectors but thought nothing of them, since they weren't labeled specifically "PCI-E". I've seen what the PCI-E connector looks like online and on that thread, and they look exactly the same as the connectors in my computer- could these very well be the connectors that I am looking for, just that they were never connected to my 6800 because it didn't need them?

The thread said he found the connectors, but I don't know for certain if he was referring to these P4/P5 connectors for his card, and like him, I don't want to plug a card into there and fry everything. I've included pictures of the two connectors here:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4255/sixslotp4co9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1900/sixslotp5od4.jpg

It's a shot in the dark, but they're 6 slot, and look like they may fit a card based on what I've been told so far in this thread. Was hoping someone could tell me if these are what I'm looking for, just that they were deceptively labeled?

I just re-read the thread that was posted on that website, and it appears he said that the cabling was bundled up and hidden away (It was bundled up, but didn't appear hidden.) so I would say these are the cables he used. I'll be trying for an 8800GT when it comes out. Worst I think could happen is I'm out 250.

Just wanted to thank everyone that posted in this thread for their advice, insight and help. Now I know where to go should I need help upgrading the processor. :)

Ah, excellent! Those are indeed PCI-e connectors, so you're in the clear for the 8800GT or HD3850/HD3870. I wouldn't worry about clearance too much - the 8800GT isn't going to be any bigger than 9" long, which will fit in most mid-ATX cases.RayvinAzn

Good to know. I don't know too much about ATI cards, so I'll stick with nVidia, which is what I do know. The card I have appears at first glance to be about 7" long, so yes you may be right on the money with the size fitting.

I don't have 3DMark, so I'll probably try the Bioshock demo again to see if there's any improvement. Not sure when I'll buy the card, but I feel informed enough now to make a purchase in the future.

Again, thank you, and thanks to everyone that gave their input. :)

P.s: On a very weird note, some of my posts from this thread appear to have gone missing, and words sometimes stick together in posts... Oh well.