what do you think is 'killing' pc gaming

FIRST OFF... im not a console fanboy who bashes PC, i think the PC is waaaaaaaay better than any console. i just want to know what others think is hurting or "killing" PC gaming

so some people think that PC gaming is dying, even though im not one of them... i think that even if the pc has a hard time right now, it still has ALOT of better games than any console

but it definetely is getting worse... and that is because piracy causes devs to lose money when making the game... but what causes it? why just now, why not earlier?

people say the DRM does it... but it doesnt look like much of a problem to me since most games that have a very crappy DRM are now steamable, which takes away the DRM... but to those that dont know what steam is, that can be a problem

i say that games for windows live does a great job at messing up PC games. that is because it has MANY flaws... ignoring the fact that microsoft's servers are not dedicated and pc gamers deserve dedicated servers... GFWL comes with alot of sign in issues, update issues and it is a nightmare to get it to work. its pretty much broken... i (along with ALOT of other people)tried getting it to work, and the experience was bad... i stayed up all night trying to sign in... i open ALOT of ports,set my MTU to 1500, turned off my firewall and antivirus completely,and pretty much tried every trick and the book and it wouldnt work... apart from probably putting thousands of viruses on my computer, i had ALOT OF fun. for me any PC game with LIVE written below "PC DVD"is a guaranteed flop... such as fallout 3 for PC... i think that fallout 3 is the 2nd best game of 08(after MGS4) and it is the best on PC...but i was totally disappointed with getting it for pc, cuz of live altogether...*EDIT: in the poll, since i cant edit it. if you blame MS, place your vote under gfwl... cuz its pretty much ms's fault

and the last reason i can come up with, is crappy ports. Example: i expected gta 4 to be the first 10/10 for the PC, apart from bieng the best in the series(on consoles, i think its the worst in the series). and its the best on the PC, cuz gta was alway the best on PC... better graphics, framerate and less load times... but what really does it would be mods. gta is the most moddable game PERIOD. and IMO modding gta iv is miles funner than the DLC the xbox is getting. you can tweak the game anyway you want, drive what cars you want, change graphics, map, sounds, and pretty much make it a whole new game. it made me play gta sa at least 100 more hours than id expected. plus with a video editor which is miles better than halo 3's theater mode(which is still awsome). so heavy modding+great machinima tool= BEST PC GAME EVER. but really gta 4 is probably the worst pc game ever. R* really messed it up.first this game needs a better system than crysis... does it look anywhere near as good as crysis? NO! it looks like a last gen game in comparison to crysis, yet how come crysis runs better on the identical system?plus you must be signed into GFWL to save progerss, have a R* social club account, problems installing, and missing textures mostly on ATI cards. games like these are a HUGE kick to PC gaming's nuts

so thats all i can come up with, if you have anything to come up with... feel free to share

when was it dying? There are still and always will be good pc games and gamers.pvtdonut54

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]when was it dying? There are still and always will be good pc games and gamers.Syk0_k03r

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

i dont listen to the rumors on the street, they aren't always completley accurate.

[QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"]

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]when was it dying? There are still and always will be good pc games and gamers.pvtdonut54

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

i dont listen to the rumors on the street, they aren't always completley accurate.

yes, but the high piracy is a fact and it lures devs away from the PC... the end result: not so good

hopefully EA will get a new, and better drm. steam cards become available at retail stores and MS going out of business... piracy wont be a probelm

[QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"][QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]

i dont listen to the rumors on the street, they aren't always completley accurate.

SEANMCAD

yes, but the high piracy is a fact and it lures devs away from the PC... the end result: not so good

hopefully EA will get a new, and better drm. steam cards become available at retail stores and MS going out of business... piracy wont be a probelm

Ok something I dont understand.

20 years ago me and my buddies could take a floopy drive and copy it and give it to our friends and play it. How is it easier today?

I have my views on that question but I am trying to understand the basic comment of that piarcy is on the rise compared to back in the day

well the fact is that, now people have more of a reason to pirate... if the pirated version of a game doesnt come with a DRM that gives you only 5 times to install your game,and makes the game crash, whats the point in paying for it (even though DRMs are pretty much dead thanks to steam)... was there anything like this back in the 80's or 90's? ehhhh probably not

EA and crappy console games comming to pc, i just wish games that are on console stay on consoles since they ALL suck. Yes GTA series blows, GoW blows, Cod 4 blows, etc.Dr_Brocoli

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"][QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"]

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

Syk0_k03r

i dont listen to the rumors on the street, they aren't always completley accurate.

yes, but the high piracy is a fact and it lures devs away from the PC... the end result: not so good

hopefully EA will get a new, and better drm. steam cards become available at retail stores and MS going out of business... piracy wont be a probelm

If people pirate PC games they are showing an interest in playing on the PC. I think pirating is just a faze and will die out slowly until they start getting caught. And it looks like EA is getting lighter on DRM because of their games on Steam being DRM-free, I believe. SO Pc gaming is not dieing.

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]EA and crappy console games comming to pc, i just wish games that are on console stay on consoles since they ALL suck. Yes GTA series blows, GoW blows, Cod 4 blows, etc.mattpunkgd

[QUOTE="mattpunkgd"][QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]EA and crappy console games comming to pc, i just wish games that are on console stay on consoles since they ALL suck. Yes GTA series blows, GoW blows, Cod 4 blows, etc.Swiftstrike5

[QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"][QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]

i dont listen to the rumors on the street, they aren't always completley accurate.

pvtdonut54

yes, but the high piracy is a fact and it lures devs away from the PC... the end result: not so good

hopefully EA will get a new, and better drm. steam cards become available at retail stores and MS going out of business... piracy wont be a probelm

If people pirate PC games they are showing an interest in playing on the PC. I think pirating is just a faze and will die out slowly until they start getting caught. And it looks like EA is getting lighter on DRM because of their games on Steam being DRM-free, I believe. SO Pc gaming is not dieing.

first off i dont think its dying, its just getting worse than it used to be... if people pirate pc games, they might be interested, but devs lose money from that... take the economic crisis into this and if piracy continues to grow or not decrease by enough, devs will be out of business and/or stop making games for pc. and when no one is making games for a certain system, thats not good for its life expectancy... hopefully that wont happen

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"][QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"]

yes, but the high piracy is a fact and it lures devs away from the PC... the end result: not so good

hopefully EA will get a new, and better drm. steam cards become available at retail stores and MS going out of business... piracy wont be a probelm

Syk0_k03r

If people pirate PC games they are showing an interest in playing on the PC. I think pirating is just a faze and will die out slowly until they start getting caught. And it looks like EA is getting lighter on DRM because of their games on Steam being DRM-free, I believe. SO Pc gaming is not dieing.

first off i dont think its dying, its just gettingworse than it used to be... if people pirate pc games, they might be interested, but devs lose money from that... take the economic crisis into this and if piracy continues to grow or not decrease by enough, devs will be out of business and/or stop making games for pc. and when no one is making games for a certain system, thats not good for its life expectancy... hopefully that wont happen

why is it worse?

Also in the next gen of consoles I think there will be pirating on those and the PC. So if Devs stop making games for the nwe consoles and Pcs doesn't that equal no games. Gaming is a multi billion dollar industry and devs don't can the P in one day. The PC is not dieing.

According to a press arelease from Valve who i am sure you know runs the incredible popular steam system which stated that piracy has dropped off. They listed russia as an example - apparently they think it's due to release dates being messed up. Once they releasedthings in russia at the same time that everyone else got it they found that piracy (oftheir products) went down.

I think i read the article on ign if you want to check it out yourself.

I don't think PC gaming is dying. It's certainly changed over the years, ask blizzard if they think it's dying. Do blizzard make console games? How many people play wow??

[QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"][QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]

If people pirate PC games they are showing an interest in playing on the PC. I think pirating is just a faze and will die out slowly until they start getting caught. And it looks like EA is getting lighter on DRM because of their games on Steam being DRM-free, I believe. SO Pc gaming is not dieing.

pvtdonut54

first off i dont think its dying, its just gettingworse than it used to be... if people pirate pc games, they might be interested, but devs lose money from that... take the economic crisis into this and if piracy continues to grow or not decrease by enough, devs will be out of business and/or stop making games for pc. and when no one is making games for a certain system, thats not good for its life expectancy... hopefully that wont happen

why is it worse?

Also in the next gen of consoles I think there will be pirating on those and the PC. So if Devs stop making games for the nwe consoles and Pcs doesn't that equal no games. Gaming is a multi billion dollar industry and devs don't can the P in one day. The PC is not dieing.

first off, i never said PC gaming is dying, so theres no need to say "pc gaming is not dying". it is worse than it used to be. but thanks to steam thats about to change, i put quotations around "killing" for a reason... so enough with this arguing about pc gaming "dying". i agree its not dying either

Poor ports, Devs treating the platform like an after-thought

Holding PC gaming back would be a better term then killing. There are a few things that are definitely holding things back.

1. Very limited advertising - The X-Box, Playstation, and Wii all have dedicated backers who pump millions into advertising. The PC doesn't. As a result consumers gravitate towards the well known platforms.

2. Developer focus - Terms like "next gen graphics" and "physics based gameplay" sound exciting. However, unless there is a stable engine supporting them the sharpest graphics and coolest physics effects won't mean squat. What it will do is show you to be an unreliable developer who's games aren't worth $50 which will convince players to pirate the game instead. Developers really need to start getting their hands dirty and spend far more time on the boring things like engine stability.

3. MMO's- How can it possibly be good for the platform as a whole when the most popular and visible PC game revolves around killing the same 10 whatevers 5,000 times in a row? It seems to me the average person is going to look at the PC and see only World of Warcarft and the endless repetition it demands and then look at any console and see dozens of different games to play. I know which way I'd go if I were that person.

4. Online distribution - Maybe I missed something but does The Orange Box require steam activation/ mandatory download/ and third party install on the consoles like it does on the PC? Do you see the problem here? Why put up with those extra hoops on the PC when all I have to do is drop the disc in the drive on the X-Box? No educated consumer in his right mind would by the PC version just to get prettier pictures.

5. Lack of good demos - Gameplay is the hook for any video game. Demos are the best way to consumers if the gameplay is something they would enjoy. Sadly most demos are just one level with a install tacked on. They rarely show you how to play, tell you what is going on, and always ruin part of the main game. Some are so bad they require patches.

6. Upgrade games - the seemingly endless "you must upgrade to play this game" reviews only serve to freak out people who don't understand PC's that well. I know a lot of people who go into a total brain dump at any idea that means opening the side of the PC. Once again, why bother with all this hassle when all you have to do on the console is drop the disc in the drive?

7. Bad ports - Both Gears of War and Grand Theft Auto IV were nearly a year old when the hit the PC. With all that time in development they should have run smoothly right out of the box for almost all PC gamers. There is just no excuse for this at all.

I think what is hurting (not killing) computer gaming is bad DRM and poorly optomized games that require the newest hardware to run. Computer gaming is actually pretty cheap once you get past the inital cost of building your first computer and buying the right hardware can mean only having to upgrade every 2-3 years, however poorly optomized games that:

1) Require expensive hardware to run decently

2) Don't run propperly on any hardware

is what is most hurting. Take F.E.A.R. 2 for instance, the game looks absolutely stunning and I can max it out on my 7900GS video card and 2.3Ghz Dual-Core CPU, same thing with Vlave games such as Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2, beautiful looking games that run amazingly well on old hardware. If more games did this, computer gaming would be even cheaper which would bring in more people.

Now DRM is an issue, especially those limiting your installs. Most problems I've had with computer games in the past involved me having to uninstall/reinstall the game on my computer and if I'm limited to how many times I can do that, well thats just stupid. Thanks to digital distrubition and Steam, that is avoided but still, nothing beats having a hard copy of game opposed to a digital one .

[QUOTE="jfcundiff"]Piracy and I guess Microsoft. DRM is a pain in the ass though also. SEANMCAD

just and FYI piracy was easier in the 80's and late 90's and has always been an issue ever sense the first floppy drive.

I'd wish PC gaming is dying and so the GPU battle between Nvidia and AMD/ATI can cease, and the hardware upgrading frequency of most gamers will be decrease.

and there'll be no direct x 12, 13, 14 and ad infiniyum.

Here's what is killing PC gaming....

People that think PC gaming is dying. Enough said.

1. Retailers with their continual pushing back PC gaming. It doesn't help when gamestop stores have wall to wall of console games.
2. Stopping the continual myth that a $4000 PC is required to play what ever game.
3. Lack of easy communication with novice PC users looking to PC gaming.
4. Publishers continuially porting games to the PC from consoles that completely suck.
5. Priacy.
6. PC exclusives are a thing of the past.
7. Xbox 360, because Microsoft have spent billions on it, they are no way going to leave it alone.

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]when was it dying? There are still and always will be good pc games and gamers.Syk0_k03r

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

Lol, it's another one of these polls that if you look at it sideways, it's flipping us off.

But seriously, I think it's a combination of a lot of them. There's a lot of forces pushing against the PC. But it'll never die or be "killed." It's just as strong as ever.

Here's what is killing PC gaming....

People that think PC gaming is dying. Enough said.

neatfeatguy

so i will think for one second that PC gaming isnt "dying"..................................... not much different

crappy ports like GTA 4, games for windows live and secuROM ruin, but not nesessarily kill pc gaming

[QUOTE="Syk0_k03r"]

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]when was it dying? There are still and always will be good pc games and gamers.weirjf

word on the street was its dying

its not nesessarly dying... its well, degrading because of higher piracy... but why is it being pirated so much now? for various reasons

doubt it... for starters, i remember GS posting news that said "spore most pirated PC game of 2008" but i didnt see them even say console in that post...

about xbox 360 piracy, alot of people do care for their live subscription... means that they wouldnt mod their xboxes. the PS3 is unmodabble as in theres NO WAY to make a pirated game work on a ps3... about the wii...those that actually PLAY their wiis dont know what mods are, therefore, i never heard of a modded wii game. so with console, there are either consequences, totally impossible or no point in pirating games... whats the consequences for pirating a PC game? pretty much none. i have friends who pirated over 5 pc games and didnt get caught

F***ing limited installation and online authentication is killing PC gaming.They are making us rent our game not buy our game anymore with their bloody limited installation and what about gamers who don't have internet connection?They can't play their game just because they don't have internet huh?And what will happen if their authenticating servers go down?We can't active so we can't play our games anymore!They shouldn't treat us like crimical even though they want to want to stop pirate and protect their profit.They should trust us!People don't want to waste more than 20$ to rent a game and just play it three or five times.If they continue doing this , PC gaming WILL DIE!

PC gaming is being killed by the hardware race. Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and ATI have all been constantly putting out new products trying to out due each other, and the software developers have been tagging along. This has ostracized customers that are unable to make constant upgrades.

PC gaming has become limited to those with a decent amount of hardware knowledge proportional to their disposable income.