Whatever happened to "Quick-save" and cheats?

SInce the 90s, most shooters used to come with the quick-save option. But since 2006 or 2007, developers seem to have totally done away with the quick save system. Any specific reason for this?

And the most annoying thing is that most of today's shooters don't support cheat codes, even in single player mode. This is outrageous. After you fisnish a game, its so much fun to play it again while using cheat codes. If the people want to play failrly, they'll play. If they want to cheat, they can cheat. But what's the point of completely stopping support for cheats?

Regenerating health was supposed to "fix" issues where players would get stuck without a quick save and no health... as for cheats no idea, don't really play with them but I know source engine games have em and mods for various games tend to do all variety of things.

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

sunil_u123

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

sunil_u123

I've always been against consoles. For shooters, nothing beats the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Even for other types of games, one can plug a controller into the PC. Consoles are totally irrelevant and completely unnecessary. The tragic thing is that many games, which originated on the PC, have moved to the consoles, and they're not even being released for the PC. Take Mortal Kombat for example. Then there are others like Red Dead Redemption, which was never released for the PC. Same goes for Halo 3 and Halo Reach. Some games release for the PC several months after the consoles, that too in a half baked state, buggy, and hogging system resources.The question is, why are PC gamers being looked down upon? What is so superior about consoles, which isn't there in PCs? These consoles have made PC gamers develop an inferiority complex. I've grown up playing PC games since the early 90s, and have never touched a console after SNES. Its very tragic, seeing the state of PC gaming now. Why should we be denied the opportunity to play good games, just because we don't won a console?

I've come across quite a few games that need quick saves. I just find it more convenient than having to run to the next checkpoint or stop dead in your tracks and lose data. In games like Dead Island, it makes sense not to have a quick-save because you can't just save and appear back at the spot where zombies were trying to devour you. Being sent back to safe houses like the Lifeguard tower, Lighthouse, makes absolute sense.

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

sunil_u123

It's not about realism, it's what makes the game more fun. If you prefer health packs say that, don't say it's better because it's more realistic.

Quick save and quick load were way to exploitable and could break the pace of games. We moved to checkpoint based systems so that the developers had more control on how a level played out.

To me it comes down to having the option to do what I want. I'm the one playing the game it should be my choice if I want to save anywhere or only rely on the checkpoint/autosave system. I try to find out before I pay full price for a game what kind of save feature it uses because it will effect my decision...

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

sunil_u123

Games aren't trying to be realistic, they are trying to be fun. If you want realistic games, you shouldn't be playing things like CoD and Half Life. There is nothing realistic about a magical pickup that regenerated your health.

Also us PC gamers don't have to comrpomise squat. Considering that the volume of games released on the PC is about 10x that of 5 years ago, we still get just as many core PC games as we did. Look at Hard Reset. It is a pure PC shooter. Got a 7.0. Making a PC exclusive doesn't automatically make a game better.

We have Serious Sam 3 on the way (no health regen, acrade styIe gameplay), we have ArmA 3 and RO2 for the more sim/realistic shooters, we have tons of RTSs and MMOs exclusive to the PC. Nothing has changed. It just seems like there are less games for the PC because the amount of games coming out is just massive.

You shouldn't hate consoles so much. You can have just as much fun playing a console game as you do playing a PC game. Games look fine on a consoles, unless you love counting pixels.. An elitism mentality like yours is only ruining gaming for you.

still i missed the days i forgot to save and had to replay a whole level. Now with the autosave and the checkpoints dying isn't really a punishment anymoreevildead6789

Dying was never a punishment if you would remember to abuse the quick save and auto load features.

[QUOTE="sunil_u123"]

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

Wasdie

Games aren't trying to be realistic, they are trying to be fun. If you want realistic games, you shouldn't be playing things like CoD and Half Life. There is nothing realistic about a magical pickup that regenerated your health.

Also us PC gamers don't have to comrpomise squat. Considering that the volume of games released on the PC is about 10x that of 5 years ago, we still get just as many core PC games as we did. Look at Hard Reset. It is a pure PC shooter. Got a 7.0. Making a PC exclusive doesn't automatically make a game better.

We have Serious Sam 3 on the way (no health regen, acrade styIe gameplay), we have ArmA 3 and RO2 for the more sim/realistic shooters, we have tons of RTSs and MMOs exclusive to the PC. Nothing has changed. It just seems like there are less games for the PC because the amount of games coming out is just massive.

You shouldn't hate consoles so much. You can have just as much fun playing a console game as you do playing a PC game. Games look fine on a consoles, unless you love counting pixels.. An elitism mentality like yours is only ruining gaming for you.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="sunil_u123"]

This regenerating health system isn't good at all. Its totally fake. Picking up health packs was at least a bit more realistic. I really really miss those quicksave days.

As for cheats..well....developers shouldn't have abandoned them altogether. Actually, I'm a bit of a noob, so I'm not aware of these mods which can enable cheats. Can someone enlighten me on this one?

I just HATE consoles. Because of consoles, we PC gamers have to compromise so much. Most developers develop games on the consoles, and then port it to the PC in a half baked manner. And many good games are never released for the PC. Also games look like crap on consoles, compared to a powerful PC. Damn the consoles to hell.

evildead6789

Games aren't trying to be realistic, they are trying to be fun. If you want realistic games, you shouldn't be playing things like CoD and Half Life. There is nothing realistic about a magical pickup that regenerated your health.

Also us PC gamers don't have to comrpomise squat. Considering that the volume of games released on the PC is about 10x that of 5 years ago, we still get just as many core PC games as we did. Look at Hard Reset. It is a pure PC shooter. Got a 7.0. Making a PC exclusive doesn't automatically make a game better.

We have Serious Sam 3 on the way (no health regen, acrade styIe gameplay), we have ArmA 3 and RO2 for the more sim/realistic shooters, we have tons of RTSs and MMOs exclusive to the PC. Nothing has changed. It just seems like there are less games for the PC because the amount of games coming out is just massive.

You shouldn't hate consoles so much. You can have just as much fun playing a console game as you do playing a PC game. Games look fine on a consoles, unless you love counting pixels.. An elitism mentality like yours is only ruining gaming for you.

I'm sorry, but you said before that you hated consoles and then spat out a bunch of blatent lies and narrowminded viewpoints. I was addressing that.

Quick save and quick load were way to exploitable and could break the pace of games. We moved to checkpoint based systems so that the developers had more control on how a level played out.

Wasdie

Breaking the pace? Perhaps. But exploitable? How can anything in a single-player portion of a game be exploitable? If somebody wants to quick-save after every fight I couldn't care less. Why? Because it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of the game at all. Same thing goes for cheats.

There's no "correct" way to play the single-player portion of any game. You want to cheat or use a trainer? Go for it! You want to quick-save every 10 seconds? Go for it!

Again, what people do in a single-player game has no impact on anyone but the person playing the game. The lack of quick-saves/save-when-and-where-you-want is a console convention (an outdated one at that) and has no place in PC gaming.

Feel free to disagree.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Quick save and quick load were way to exploitable and could break the pace of games. We moved to checkpoint based systems so that the developers had more control on how a level played out.

-wildflower-

Breaking the pace? Perhaps. But exploitable? How can anything in a single-player portion of a game be exploitable? If somebody wants to quick-save after every fight I couldn't care less. Why? Because it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of the game at all. Same thing goes for cheats.

There's no "correct" way to play the single-player portion of any game. You want to cheat or use a trainer? Go for it! You want to quick-save every 10 seconds? Go for it!

Again, what people do in a single-player game has no impact on anyone but the person playing the game. The lack of quick-saves/save-when-and-where-you-want is a console convention (an outdated one at that) and has no place in PC gaming.

Feel free to disagree.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Quick save and quick load were way to exploitable and could break the pace of games. We moved to checkpoint based systems so that the developers had more control on how a level played out.

-wildflower-

Breaking the pace? Perhaps. But exploitable? How can anything in a single-player portion of a game be exploitable? If somebody wants to quick-save after every fight I couldn't care less. Why? Because it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of the game at all. Same thing goes for cheats.

There's no "correct" way to play the single-player portion of any game. You want to cheat or use a trainer? Go for it! You want to quick-save every 10 seconds? Go for it!

Again, what people do in a single-player game has no impact on anyone but the person playing the game. The lack of quick-saves/save-when-and-where-you-want is a console convention (an outdated one at that) and has no place in PC gaming.

Feel free to disagree.

From a design perspective it can and does ruin the developers intentions on how to play their game. This loss of control makes it more difficult to ensure that everybody has the same experience. As development time increased, more time needs to be spent on things like art and production values, and less time needs to be spent on making sure that everybody has the same gameplay experiences by taking into consideration the thousands of special cases per level.

Call it whatever you want, that's the route developers have taken with games. There are still games that use the quick save and quick load, but for linear games, that kind of funcitonality is pointless to have to take into consideration.

Games used to be much more simple than they are now. Look at a lot of earlier FPSs. They gave you a bunch of guns and hordes of enemies running straight at you. Not much to think about. Just keep shooting. A simple save/load kind of gameplay works fine.

However let's ramp up the AI routines to 11. Look at STALKER. Quick saving and quick loading is one of the quickest ways to ensure buggy AI. One minute you could be running from some guys attacking you. They could kill you and you have to reload. When you reload they no longer are chasing you. You get to complex AI thoughts and behaviors, you need things to pile ontop of each other. You let the player mess with that, you can have some serious problems.

When you start making a game super linear like Half-Life or FEAR. Checkpoint systems force you to make players play in a certain way that you have to play. This allows developers to have way more control over what happens. You lose a bit of freedom (usually pointless freedom) in exchange for much more cinimatic/intense moments. That's the design philosphy behind it.

Quick save and quick load have their places, especially in open world games. I don't see their need in a very linear game.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Quick save and quick load were way to exploitable and could break the pace of games. We moved to checkpoint based systems so that the developers had more control on how a level played out.

Diophage

Breaking the pace? Perhaps. But exploitable? How can anything in a single-player portion of a game be exploitable? If somebody wants to quick-save after every fight I couldn't care less. Why? Because it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of the game at all. Same thing goes for cheats.

There's no "correct" way to play the single-player portion of any game. You want to cheat or use a trainer? Go for it! You want to quick-save every 10 seconds? Go for it!

Again, what people do in a single-player game has no impact on anyone but the person playing the game. The lack of quick-saves/save-when-and-where-you-want is a console convention (an outdated one at that) and has no place in PC gaming.

Feel free to disagree.

As I said before, but this is to be a bit more focused, letting the player play how he/she wants in this day and age will cause tons of extra QA and testing time that developers simply can't afford anymore. Most linear games back in the day were very simple affairs. Levels were pretty simple and not a lot of major scripting was going on. AI was also much more basic too. They didn't have to worry about taking cover, they didn't have to worry about lighting or shadows, they didn't have to worry about foliage, they didn't have to worry about working together with other AI. Thees things we all expect today.

Our own perceptions of quality games are forcing developers to make decisions. Most old school games forced you to play through one way or another via invisible walls and other really outdated gameplay conventions. We are trading one necessary evil for another.

Quick save and quick load is a pure gameplay convention. People say it's about the consoles, but it's really about how the developer wants to pace their game. Games today also have much more linear difficulty curves, or just straight flat difficulty curves. This has made gaming far more accessible to the masses.

[QUOTE="Diophage"][QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Breaking the pace? Perhaps. But exploitable? How can anything in a single-player portion of a game be exploitable? If somebody wants to quick-save after every fight I couldn't care less. Why? Because it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of the game at all. Same thing goes for cheats.

There's no "correct" way to play the single-player portion of any game. You want to cheat or use a trainer? Go for it! You want to quick-save every 10 seconds? Go for it!

Again, what people do in a single-player game has no impact on anyone but the person playing the game. The lack of quick-saves/save-when-and-where-you-want is a console convention (an outdated one at that) and has no place in PC gaming.

Feel free to disagree.

Wasdie

As I said before, but this is to be a bit more focused, letting the player play how he/she wants in this day and age will cause tons of extra QA and testing time that developers simply can't afford anymore. Most linear games back in the day were very simple affairs. Levels were pretty simple and not a lot of major scripting was going on. AI was also much more basic too. They didn't have to worry about taking cover, they didn't have to worry about lighting or shadows, they didn't have to worry about foliage, they didn't have to worry about working together with other AI. Thees things we all expect today.

Our own perceptions of quality games are forcing developers to make decisions. Most old school games forced you to play through one way or another via invisible walls and other really outdated gameplay conventions. We are trading one necessary evil for another.

Quick save and quick load is a pure gameplay convention. People say it's about the consoles, but it's really about how the developer wants to pace their game. Games today also have much more linear difficulty curves, or just straight flat difficulty curves. This has made gaming far more accessible to the masses.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

As I said before, but this is to be a bit more focused, letting the player play how he/she wants in this day and age will cause tons of extra QA and testing time that developers simply can't afford anymore. Most linear games back in the day were very simple affairs. Levels were pretty simple and not a lot of major scripting was going on. AI was also much more basic too. They didn't have to worry about taking cover, they didn't have to worry about lighting or shadows, they didn't have to worry about foliage, they didn't have to worry about working together with other AI. Thees things we all expect today.

Our own perceptions of quality games are forcing developers to make decisions. Most old school games forced you to play through one way or another via invisible walls and other really outdated gameplay conventions. We are trading one necessary evil for another.

Quick save and quick load is a pure gameplay convention. People say it's about the consoles, but it's really about how the developer wants to pace their game. Games today also have much more linear difficulty curves, or just straight flat difficulty curves. This has made gaming far more accessible to the masses.

Diophage

Quick saves and quick loads can mess with AI routines quite a bit. Also event series are more difficult to pull off when the player is in control of the loading. It's not about save files, it's just about game coding and testing. Sure you can make every level so you can quick save and quick load, but then a few things can happen. First you need to increase your QA to make sure that events fire off in the correct order and time with the right animations, sound, and all of that jazz. Second you need to make sure that the levels don't become to easy and the fear of messing up is taken away.

Just use a "trainer" or "mod" for games without built-in cheat codes.

I've always been against consoles. For shooters, nothing beats the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Even for other types of games, one can plug a controller into the PC. Consoles are totally irrelevant and completely unnecessary. The tragic thing is that many games, which originated on the PC, have moved to the consoles, and they're not even being released for the PC. Take Mortal Kombat for example. Then there are others like Red Dead Redemption, which was never released for the PC. Same goes for Halo 3 and Halo Reach. Some games release for the PC several months after the consoles, that too in a half baked state, buggy, and hogging system resources.The question is, why are PC gamers being looked down upon? What is so superior about consoles, which isn't there in PCs? These consoles have made PC gamers develop an inferiority complex. I've grown up playing PC games since the early 90s, and have never touched a console after SNES. Its very tragic, seeing the state of PC gaming now. Why should we be denied the opportunity to play good games, just because we don't won a console?

sunil_u123

Completely wrong.

Consoles have their right in gaming, just like PCs and mobile devices have.

Nothing beats sitting around on couches with a few friends playing a FIFA Tournament.... or even now that consoles are bringing FITNESS (Wii, Kinect) to the masses.

[QUOTE="sunil_u123"]

I've always been against consoles. For shooters, nothing beats the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Even for other types of games, one can plug a controller into the PC. Consoles are totally irrelevant and completely unnecessary. The tragic thing is that many games, which originated on the PC, have moved to the consoles, and they're not even being released for the PC. Take Mortal Kombat for example. Then there are others like Red Dead Redemption, which was never released for the PC. Same goes for Halo 3 and Halo Reach. Some games release for the PC several months after the consoles, that too in a half baked state, buggy, and hogging system resources.The question is, why are PC gamers being looked down upon? What is so superior about consoles, which isn't there in PCs? These consoles have made PC gamers develop an inferiority complex. I've grown up playing PC games since the early 90s, and have never touched a console after SNES. Its very tragic, seeing the state of PC gaming now. Why should we be denied the opportunity to play good games, just because we don't won a console?

FelipeInside

Completely wrong.

Consoles have their right in gaming, just like PCs and mobile devices have.

Nothing beats sitting around on couches with a few friends playing a FIFA Tournament.... or even now that consoles are bringing FITNESS (Wii, Kinect) to the masses.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="sunil_u123"]

I've always been against consoles. For shooters, nothing beats the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Even for other types of games, one can plug a controller into the PC. Consoles are totally irrelevant and completely unnecessary. The tragic thing is that many games, which originated on the PC, have moved to the consoles, and they're not even being released for the PC. Take Mortal Kombat for example. Then there are others like Red Dead Redemption, which was never released for the PC. Same goes for Halo 3 and Halo Reach. Some games release for the PC several months after the consoles, that too in a half baked state, buggy, and hogging system resources.The question is, why are PC gamers being looked down upon? What is so superior about consoles, which isn't there in PCs? These consoles have made PC gamers develop an inferiority complex. I've grown up playing PC games since the early 90s, and have never touched a console after SNES. Its very tragic, seeing the state of PC gaming now. Why should we be denied the opportunity to play good games, just because we don't won a console?

Diophage

Completely wrong.

Consoles have their right in gaming, just like PCs and mobile devices have.

Nothing beats sitting around on couches with a few friends playing a FIFA Tournament.... or even now that consoles are bringing FITNESS (Wii, Kinect) to the masses.

Not a million... I'm sure of that, but anyway it's not the point....to say consoles are useless is just being naive.... or maybe you've never played a FIFA Tournament.

I'll always be a PC Gamer... but I can still appreciate consoles for what they are.

Quick save is just a lazy design choice. Developers in the 90s couldn't figure out how to make decent checkpoints, so you could just save anywhere you wanted. Quicksave works well in some games like Deus Ex, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, etc. It doesen't work if your game is just a shooter...

I miss the Quick Save option too ... regenerating health is also becoming booring becouse you can just rush in, kill whatever, hide for 3 seconds and do the same, unless the cover can be destroyed. Healthpacks/Medi-packs are something I miss for so long ... being low on health with a quick save - that was epic. you were always on your toes, unlimited ammount of adrenaline becouse you never know if in the next room the enemy just unload a whole clip in your head:twisted: Ever since games started being created on PC FOR consoles cheat codes and cookies like that just faded off ... Now everything is "Checkpoint reached" with non-stop full health ... and when you add the COVER options too this is just becoming an easy mode game and the only challenge would be to play on highest difficulty where 1 hit could lower you to the point where a poke would be enough to kill you ... but even then you can just COVER, regenerate and finish the game :x

When was the last time someone finished CoD 1 or MoH on last difficulty ? How many people actually finished that playthough ? Now ask yourself how many people have finished the latest CoD games with regenerating life on high difficulty ? :?

P.S. Good thing Hard Reset came out to remind me of what PC FPS was all about ... having fun blowing up stuff AND being on your toes watching your health status non-stop ...

[QUOTE="Diophage"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Completely wrong.

Consoles have their right in gaming, just like PCs and mobile devices have.

Nothing beats sitting around on couches with a few friends playing a FIFA Tournament.... or even now that consoles are bringing FITNESS (Wii, Kinect) to the masses.

FelipeInside

Not a million... I'm sure of that, but anyway it's not the point....to say consoles are useless is just being naive.... or maybe you've never played a FIFA Tournament.

I'll always be a PC Gamer... but I can still appreciate consoles for what they are.

[QUOTE="Diophage"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

As I said before, but this is to be a bit more focused, letting the player play how he/she wants in this day and age will cause tons of extra QA and testing time that developers simply can't afford anymore. Most linear games back in the day were very simple affairs. Levels were pretty simple and not a lot of major scripting was going on. AI was also much more basic too. They didn't have to worry about taking cover, they didn't have to worry about lighting or shadows, they didn't have to worry about foliage, they didn't have to worry about working together with other AI. Thees things we all expect today.

Our own perceptions of quality games are forcing developers to make decisions. Most old school games forced you to play through one way or another via invisible walls and other really outdated gameplay conventions. We are trading one necessary evil for another.

Quick save and quick load is a pure gameplay convention. People say it's about the consoles, but it's really about how the developer wants to pace their game. Games today also have much more linear difficulty curves, or just straight flat difficulty curves. This has made gaming far more accessible to the masses.

Wasdie

Quick saves and quick loads can mess with AI routines quite a bit. Also event series are more difficult to pull off when the player is in control of the loading. It's not about save files, it's just about game coding and testing. Sure you can make every level so you can quick save and quick load, but then a few things can happen. First you need to increase your QA to make sure that events fire off in the correct order and time with the right animations, sound, and all of that jazz. Second you need to make sure that the levels don't become to easy and the fear of messing up is taken away.

I understand your point. Don't agree with it. Development lazyness is your reason for not putting inQ-save/load at least that's how I see it. I also know that my dollar is not respected so neither is my opinion but it's all I've got to fight with.

Not a million... I'm sure of that, but anyway it's not the point....to say consoles are useless is just being naive.... or maybe you've never played a FIFA Tournament.

I'll always be a PC Gamer... but I can still appreciate consoles for what they are.

FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Not a million... I'm sure of that, but anyway it's not the point....to say consoles are useless is just being naive.... or maybe you've never played a FIFA Tournament.

I'll always be a PC Gamer... but I can still appreciate consoles for what they are.

cain006

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Not a million... I'm sure of that, but anyway it's not the point....to say consoles are useless is just being naive.... or maybe you've never played a FIFA Tournament.

I'll always be a PC Gamer... but I can still appreciate consoles for what they are.

FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="cain006"]You can play Fifa on a computer.

Diophage

Not trick for you... who knows what a HDMI cable is and that sound can be connected through other means. But for someone less technically informed, the console is plug'n'play. (Remember also the resolution issue with some video cards and Big TVs....you need a strong enough card....the resolution has to be correct etc etc).With a console it autodetects all this...

Not saying it's Rocket Science.... but with a console you can be up and running in 5min....