What's wrong with Oblivion?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
-The character leveling system has remain unchange--even a little dumbed down--since Morrowind. It really needed a change; as it is, the only way to max your attributes efficiently is to waste time leveling useless skills. This has since been addressed in various leveling mods.
-The creatures and NPCs level up with you in such a way that the game can become harder the higher you level up. There is no sense of being one among many in a vaste world since you can pretty much kill everything at any level. This has since been addressed in various overhaul mods.
-The main questline sucks. You are a side character, and it just isn't very interesting besides. This has, unfortunately, not been addressed in any mods.
-Because all the dialogue is voiced, complexity and length of dialogue it much toned down... and there are about 5 voice talents that perform the voices of every character in the game--a bit of an immersion killer. Unfortunately (or fortunately?} unaddressed.
-Dungeons and wilderness isn't hand-placed for the most part and it shows. Unique Landscape mod make a nice improvement of much of the landscape, but not much has been done to address the lame dungeons.
-Loot is heavily level-based; at level 20+ bandits run around with glass and daedric armor--immersion killer. Again, addressed by the various overhaul mods.
-The Oblivion portals suck; the planes of Oblivion are boring and repetative. Largely unaddressed.
In short, the game kinda sucks without mods, and it's pretty good with 'em.
-The character leveling system has remain unchange--even a little dumbed down--since Morrowind. It really needed a change; as it is, the only way to max your attributes efficiently is to waste time leveling useless skills. This has since been addressed in various leveling mods.
-The creatures and NPCs level up with you in such a way that the game can become harder the higher you level up. There is no sense of being one among many in a vaste world since you can pretty much kill everything at any level. This has since been addressed in various overhaul mods.
-The main questline sucks. You are a side character, and it just isn't very interesting besides. This has, unfortunately, not been addressed in any mods.
-Because all the dialogue is voiced, complexity and length of dialogue it much toned down... and there are about 5 voice talents that perform the voices of every character in the game--a bit of an immersion killer. Unfortunately (or fortunately?} unaddressed.
-Dungeons and wilderness isn't hand-placed for the most part and it shows. Unique Landscape mod make a nice improvement of much of the landscape, but not much has been done to address the lame dungeons.
-Loot is heavily level-based; at level 20+ bandits run around with glass and daedric armor--immersion killer. Again, addressed by the various overhaul mods.
-The Oblivion portals suck; the planes of Oblivion are boring and repetative. Largely unaddressed.
In short, the game kinda sucks without mods, and it's pretty good with 'em.
jedinat
Well having not played morrowind before Oblivion I must say Oblivion rocks. But you do have alot of points with mods it really is an awesome game.Also I also think the story sucks , got bored and didnt finish it , but the guilds are really fun.
I've seen a lot of people here saying that Oblivion sucks and does not compare to Morrowind. After some wondering why this might be, I watched the ZP review. Yahtzee's problems with the game (fast travel ruining the point to a large game world, NPCs in the middle of the uncanny valley) are ones that were in Morrowind as well. He even mentions a problem he had with Morrowind (The difficulty between changing from physical attacks to magic). So I ask you Gamespot, what's wrong with Oblivion?rifton
Nothing is wrong with it imo, most of the hate comes from fanboys of other games looking to troll, the pc version imo doesn't have the greatest interface in the world for the game, but overall its still is a great game on the pc, fast traveling is a great addition to the game and in reality you don't have to use it if you don't want to use it, I don't see how anyone can complain about traveling on foot from one city to the next and spending 15-30 minites (real life time) getting their...thats a stupid complaint if you ask me, if you don't like then don't use it, is Oblivion perfect? Nope, but overall most of the hate comes from people looking to troll or gain attention, overall is a amazing game imo, but the interface (for the pc ) could be better, also the story is average at best (that could turn away story heavy people) but I really loved the gameplay, replay value and visuals (which were tops at the time of release) that the game offered
Also I also think the story sucks , got bored and didnt finish it , but the guilds are really fun.
xAngels_Assasin
The guilds were the highlight of the game, although they were still dumbed down a bit from Morrowind - there are far less of them to join (Oblivion had four - five if you count the arena - and Morrowind had...at least twelve?), they're shorter, simpler, and they no longer clash, meaning that your fighter-guildmaster with no magical talents can easily and illogically become the archmage without any trouble.
Nope, but overall most of the hate comes from people looking to troll or gain attention
wizdom
...Or from those of us who were fans of the previous games in the series (or just RPGs in general), and have many legitimate complaints as to why it's quite a disappointing/terrible RPG.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it isn't a bad game, but the role-playing aspects were rather pathetic, even for a free-roaming RPG - the character development system was both simplistic and broken, there were no choices anywhere (quests are totally linear), the story was short and weak, the gameworld was unresponsive, etc.
whats happening with bethesda? i just read the eurogamer review on fallout3 and now it just seems that their products have all gone downhill in quality since morrowind.middito
Well, Bethesda didn't do the original Fallouts so you can hardly say they're going "downhill." (and the game isn't even out yet) Frankly, even if it's not a great game, I'm sure I'll like it more than the original two. They were boring as hell.
-The character leveling system has remain unchange--even a little dumbed down--since Morrowind. It really needed a change; as it is, the only way to max your attributes efficiently is to waste time leveling useless skills. This has since been addressed in various leveling mods.
jedinat
Not everyone's goal is to max out all of their attributes; it certainly wasn't mine. And I didn't think that any skill was useless.
-The creatures and NPCs level up with you in such a way that the game can become harder the higher you level up. There is no sense of being one among many in a vaste world since you can pretty much kill everything at any level. This has since been addressed in various overhaul mods.
jedinat
I didn't like the leveling either, but at least the creatures and NPCs are programmed to be a certain number of levels above or below you. You can still expect a fight with a mudcrab to be easy and a fight with a deadra to be difficult; it's just never too easy or too difficult.
-The main questline sucks. You are a side character, and it just isn't very interesting besides. This has, unfortunately, not been addressed in any mods.
jedinat
I really enjoyed it, and I really liked being a "side character." It made me feel more connected with the plot and made me care more about the characters. Characters weren't mere stepping stones on the way to the top in this game. Name one character you would consider your friend in Morrowind. Caius Cosades? Sugar Lips? Pfft.
-Because all the dialogue is voiced, complexity and length of dialogue it much toned down...
jedinat
True.
and there are about 5 voice talents that perform the voices of every character in the game--a bit of an immersion killer. Unfortunately (or fortunately?} unaddressed.
jedinat
Yeah, it was so much more immersive in Morrowind when the characters held up big boxes of text when they wanted to speak.
For the record, there are twelve voice actors. Two (male and female) for kajitt/argonian, two for redguard, imperial, brenton, orc/nord, and the elf races. Add the three celebrity voice actors, you've got fifteen - three with bigger than average hourly paychecks, and twelve with average pay but who come in for many, many hours to read dialogue for the hundreds of unique NPCs, including all the generic lines you can get from anyone (rumors, town info, etc.) Think it might have gotten a bit pricey? And would it really have made that much of a difference, considering that there are thousands of NPCs in the game?
-Dungeons and wilderness isn't hand-placed for the most part and it shows. Unique Landscape mod make a nice improvement of much of the landscape, but not much has been done to address the lame dungeons.
jedinat
I'm pretty sure that the dungeons were hand-placed, and if the wilderness wasn't, does it need to be? I never knew that nature had to be hand placed. I've never thought in real life "what a ridiculous place for that boulder. What were they THINKING?"
-Loot is heavily level-based; at level 20+ bandits run around with glass and daedric armor--immersion killer. Again, addressed by the various overhaul mods.
jedinat
True. I didn't like that.
-The Oblivion portals suck; the planes of Oblivion are boring and repetitive. Largely unaddressed.
jedinat
The portals are hella-cool lookin' IMO. Planes of Oblivion are boring and repetitive. Oblivion is pretty much the worst part of Oblivion.
Not everyone's goal is to max out all of their attributes; it certainly wasn't mine. And I didn't think that any skill was useless. dos4gw82
It was never really my goal, no, but I am a very anal gamer and must always be sure I am not somehow gimping my character. Idealy one should not have to worry about his next level-up while playing the game.
Yeah, it was so much more immersive in Morrowind when the characters held up big boxes of text when they wanted to speak."5" was more an illustration than an attempt at perfect accuracy. And yes, I find that text is often much more immersive than voiced dialogue. Ever read a book? :PFor the record, there are twelve voice actors. Two (male and female) for kajitt/argonian, two for redguard, imperial, brenton, orc/nord, and the elf races. Add the three celebrity voice actors, you've got fifteen - three with bigger than average hourly paychecks, and twelve with average pay but who come in for many, many hours to read dialogue for the hundreds of unique NPCs, including all the generic lines you can get from anyone (rumors, town info, etc.) Think it might have gotten a bit pricey? And would it really have made that much of a difference, considering that there are thousands of NPCs in the game? dos4gw82
I'm pretty sure that the dungeons were hand-placed, and if the wilderness wasn't, does it need to be? I never knew that nature had to be hand placed. I've never thought in real life "what a ridiculous place for that boulder. What were they THINKING?" dos4gw82
If you compare the gameworld to those found in the Gothic games you would see a big difference. The world in Gothic 2 felt unique and alive, and there was a genuine urge to explore because there might very well be something interesting around that next bend in the road. In contrast, Oblivion looks nice, but feels very empty.
-The character leveling system has remain unchange--even a little dumbed down--since Morrowind. It really needed a change; as it is, the only way to max your attributes efficiently is to waste time leveling useless skills. This has since been addressed in various leveling mods.
-The creatures and NPCs level up with you in such a way that the game can become harder the higher you level up. There is no sense of being one among many in a vaste world since you can pretty much kill everything at any level. This has since been addressed in various overhaul mods.
-The main questline sucks. You are a side character, and it just isn't very interesting besides. This has, unfortunately, not been addressed in any mods.
-Because all the dialogue is voiced, complexity and length of dialogue it much toned down... and there are about 5 voice talents that perform the voices of every character in the game--a bit of an immersion killer. Unfortunately (or fortunately?} unaddressed.
-Dungeons and wilderness isn't hand-placed for the most part and it shows. Unique Landscape mod make a nice improvement of much of the landscape, but not much has been done to address the lame dungeons.
-Loot is heavily level-based; at level 20+ bandits run around with glass and daedric armor--immersion killer. Again, addressed by the various overhaul mods.
-The Oblivion portals suck; the planes of Oblivion are boring and repetative. Largely unaddressed.
In short, the game kinda sucks without mods, and it's pretty good with 'em.
jedinat
I wish I waited after the game had mods to play it - but since I already beat it in its original form, mods really don't do anything for me.
The game masquerades as an RPG and yet lets you do very little role-playing. The little role-playing that can be accomplished is ruined by bad game mechanics or design choices. A proper RPG is supposed to impose limitations upon the player based on the world it takes place in. Oblivion does no such thing. Choice and consequence is supposed to be a component in RPGs. Oblivion does not over choice. You either retrieve the item or kill the target. No comprimise or other directions are offered to approach the goal. Character design is poor as you can become the jack-of-trades with no loss at all that would otherwise be a benefit if you specialized in one field. If you wanted to take on magic and warrior based skills you shouldn't be able to become fully proficient in both as you would if you only mastered in one.
Morrowind's fast travel is not to be critized. Why? Because it is realistic. You either take a boat or a giant insect. Sometimes you even teleport via magic. There is a medium of transportation that would make travel faster. In Oblivion there is not.
Yes, there are literally tons of mods that fix or address these problems with the game and I credit the modders who made them. The fact still remains however that Bethesda made a poor RPG. The game itself at its core is a poor RPG. It took modders to lift it up from that. A game should never ever need the help of a robust mod community to accomplish what the developer failed to do.
I've seen a lot of people here saying that Oblivion sucks and does not compare to Morrowind. After some wondering why this might be, I watched the ZP review. Yahtzee's problems with the game (fast travel ruining the point to a large game world, NPCs in the middle of the uncanny valley) are ones that were in Morrowind as well. He even mentions a problem he had with Morrowind (The difficulty between changing from physical attacks to magic). So I ask you Gamespot, what's wrong with Oblivion?rifton
Its just a popular game so people say it sucks to prove how original they are. It definately has some flaws but I wouldn't complain if a game like oblivion came out every month.
The same people complain about half-life, dues ex, mafia, bioshock, stalker, halo, crysis, and gta. Some of those on the list aren't my favorites but they are all good games and we could use more like them.
The game masquerades as an RPG and yet lets you do very little role-playing. The little role-playing that can be accomplished is ruined by bad game mechanics or design choices. A proper RPG is supposed to impose limitations upon the player based on the world it takes place in. Oblivion does no such thing. Choice and consequence is supposed to be a component in RPGs. Oblivion does not over choice. You either retrieve the item or kill the target. No comprimise or other directions are offered to approach the goal. Character design is poor as you can become the jack-of-trades with no loss at all that would otherwise be a benefit if you specialized in one field. If you wanted to take on magic and warrior based skills you shouldn't be able to become fully proficient in both as you would if you only mastered in one.
Morrowind's fast travel is not to be critized. Why? Because it is realistic. You either take a boat or a giant insect. Sometimes you even teleport via magic. There is a medium of transportation that would make travel faster. In Oblivion there is not.
Yes, there are literally tons of mods that fix or address these problems with the game and I credit the modders who made them. The fact still remains however that Bethesda made a poor RPG. The game itself at its core is a poor RPG. It took modders to lift it up from that. A game should never ever need the help of a robust mod community to accomplish what the developer failed to do.
Grim_Wolf88
It is true that it doesn't impose limitations on the player to force them down the path of the storyline but I don't think every RPG has to be like this. I love having a free form game where I can do whatever I choose. It might not tell a story very well but does it really need too? Perhaps playing whatever role you choose is enough.
That said, Oblivion did have some bad design chocies and implementation that kind of ruined the immersion of free form exploration. The biggest for me was bad overused voice acting. People I talked to swapped between two different voices and it annoyed the heck out of me. The other big one was the level scaling but I just modded that out very quickly. I didn't have a problem with the quick travel because not every one wants to have to run to where they want to go or at least run to a city for quick travel options. If you don't like it just don't use it, that is what I ended up doing.
P.S. Don't mention realism with respects to a game based on that fact that you are going to run around and kill monsters with weapons and magic...
I wasn't using realism in the sense of what is physically possible by the laws of our own real universe but the laws that have been applied to the universe within the game by the developers. Magic in the game is very real but their is no medium for fast travel in Oblivion and hence it isn't all that realistic as it was in Morrowind with there being insect you can ride, boats, and travel spells. Just clearing that up as to what I meant.
Due to the leveling in Oblivion, you could literally beat the game at level one. You never feel any sense of danger like you did in Morrowind. You know in Oblivion that when you turn a corner or open that door that their will be nothing behind or beyond that is not in your abilities to kill. While in Morrowind, you were praying that their wouldn't be a Fire Atronoch behind that door to blow your little level 5 ass to kingdom come. Their were only about five classes on monster in Oblivion: deadra, bandit, marauder, wildlife, and undead. All of them placed in totally generic dungeons.Guiltfeeder566
Oblivion doesn't give me a sense of anything except safety and boredom. In Morrowind, behind "the door" could be anything. You'd have no idea. Could be a vampire, high level monster, phat loot, a message, etc. In Oblivion, you know for a fact that there's nothing behind the door except a monster that is around your level. So why walk through the door? And bam, that's where I realized Oblivion is a terrible game.
The game masquerades as an RPG and yet lets you do very little role-playing. The little role-playing that can be accomplished is ruined by bad game mechanics or design choices. A proper RPG is supposed to impose limitations upon the player based on the world it takes place in. Oblivion does no such thing. Choice and consequence is supposed to be a component in RPGs. Oblivion does not over choice. You either retrieve the item or kill the target. No comprimise or other directions are offered to approach the goal. Character design is poor as you can become the jack-of-trades with no loss at all that would otherwise be a benefit if you specialized in one field. If you wanted to take on magic and warrior based skills you shouldn't be able to become fully proficient in both as you would if you only mastered in one.
Grim_Wolf88
well said,
and I'd like to add something about this new brand of Oblivionian-free roaming-"RPG"; there's a fantasy world, and there's a loose story and a loose ("free" if you will) character. this is not "playing whoever we want" -- this is simply "we" since there's no really "character" of your PC. all you really do is to roam and take/do quest, hunt for treasure and monster etc. is there NPC whom your PC "hates" or "loves" or "dispises" or "respects" in the game?
in classical Role-playing games, we play a character that's not ourselves, I'm a rouge or mage or brute and we get thrown into events and we have to make choices and therefore face consequences. the better the game the more emotion we as a gamers will feel about the action we take and the people (NPCs) around us.
I primarily hated how only a few voice actors were used to represent the hundreds of characters. The acting budget was blown on Patrick Stewart's brief, tiny bit. I know this sounds shallow, but after hearing the same voice for many hours, it gave the game a feeling of cheapness.
I will say that the melee combat was vastly improved. Probably the best I have seen in a game.
Overall, I think if the next Elder Scroll game combines the best of Morrowind with the best of Oblivion, it could be the perfect game we are all looking for.
I primarily hated how only a few voice actors were used to represent the hundreds of characters. The acting budget was blown on Patrick Stewart's brief, tiny bit. I know this sounds shallow, but after hearing the same voice for many hours, it gave the game a feeling of cheapness.
Qixote
STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! NOBODY BREAKS THE LAW WITHIN MY WATCH!
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment