Which of these two free tv's should i take

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Goeben

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#1 Goeben
Member since 2006 • 67 Posts

OK my parents are upgrading their TVs. They currently have two 37"

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sharp-lc-37d90u/4505-6482_7-31789766.html

and

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-th-37px50u/4505-6482_7-31349717.html?tag=rnav

I get one TV and my sister gets the other (I have first pick). I have DirecTv (I watch sports mainly) and play xbox 360 (mainly first person shooters). I am thinking that the LCD would be better since it is 1080P but its only 60hz and 1200:1 contrast ratio. I dont have bluRay so the 1080p might not matter anyway. What do you guys think?

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Blackfallen

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#2 Blackfallen
Member since 2005 • 857 Posts

plasma man. panny's are good, plus you will get a clear picture with that plasma anyways. better contrast and color just over PQ

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Goeben

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#3 Goeben
Member since 2006 • 67 Posts

Thanks for the info. I figured the plasma would be better for sports but would it be better for gaming too? Would i ever miss the 1080p if i did get bluray?

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rastan

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#4 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
To see 1080p, you would have to sit within 5' of that TV plus just about all games are actually 720p and only a handful are natively 1080p so go with the better picture with no motion lag!
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Goeben

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#5 Goeben
Member since 2006 • 67 Posts

ok im going with the plasma. thanks for you help

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pimperjones

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#6 pimperjones
Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts
Hate to be the spoil sport, but I would ditch the 720p plasma and go with the 1080p LCD. 37" is way more than enough to see the difference between 720 and 1080. If you don't mind lighter blacks and a little off angle viewing issues, I would go with 1080p. Even on a 24" PC monitor 720 and 1080 is a huge difference.
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rastan

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#7 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
Pimper, you normally know what you are talking about, but the above comment on resolution doesn't mean anything as resolution without distance doesn't mean anything. 720p/1080p is just resolution. That's only one factor of picture quality. The problem with resolution is that the human eye has a limit on how much resolution can be seen from a given distance. When you speak that there is a huge difference on your 24" monitor, you are correct in that you are probably close enough to notice, but probably what makes you state that is the fact that the lower resolution settings you are comparing are not true representations of those lower resolutions. They are still showing whatever the native resolution is of that monitor(bare with me) just like flat screen TV's do. Hence, every other resolution must be scaled and that is why most flat screen monitors only look their best at their native resolution. So changing the settings on a monitor to "test" the difference is not a real comparison of resolution differences. It's really a test of how good the monitor can scale an image and what distortions take place when you do that scaling. This chart is based on scientific fact of what resolution your eye can see on a given sized image: http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html So, if you had a 22" PC monitor that was natively 720p and sat more than 3' from it it would look the same to your eyes as the 22" 1080p monitor all else being equal. So to make a long story short, he doesn't need to accept motion lag, off-angle viewing issues,and poorer contrast for 1080p if he sits further than 5' from that sized set.
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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#8 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

If not too late, go for the 1080p. Not only will you get more clarity, but Sharp generally make better sets than panasonic. Plus, there's lots of technical mumbo jumbo that people will go into, but just remember that, while plasmas might have the more natural motion and better contrast, they don't perform as well under "regular" lighting conditions--hence almost elimination the contrast issue. I'm on a 50 inch Panasonic 1080p plasma set, and im telling you that when the place is under daytime light conditions, it suffers a tad. I guess the best bet would be to test both the sets when your parents are out.

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rastan

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#9 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
Again, you will NOT get more clarity unless you sit close enough to see it. It's very simple. Not too hard to understand. Look closely at an inkjet printed picture and you will see the individual dots of ink that make up the picture. Move it away from you and you will not. The big thing some LCD's have going from them is the matte LCD panel which doesn't glare as much as plasma's screens in bright rooms. However, even that is a blanket statement in that many of the better LED based LCD's put more reflective screens on them to make them "look nicer."
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pimperjones

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#10 pimperjones
Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts
Actually 5 feet is not an unreasonable distance to sit for a small room. I'm assuming he is not gonna be using this set in a grand ballroom with a butler and a pony in the stable. By the way the distance for a 37" is actually closer to 6-7 feet away. 32" is 5 feet. It's always subjective depending on a person's vision. A person with 20/20 vision can see the difference much more vividly. . If my choice is between a 37'" 720p and a 37" 1080p, I will aways choose the 1080p. Even if I have to sit 6 feet away from the TV to see the fine grains of my cinema. The choice is up to the viewer. Honestly you couldn't give me a 720p set, it's just such outdated technology in my view.
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Goeben

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#11 Goeben
Member since 2006 • 67 Posts

I think i am more confused now. I will probably sit about 5 feet away or more but i have a small apartment so I wont be really far away. I cant see them in person. My parents live in Southern California and I live in northern. I will pick the TV up when i go to their house for xmas.

My understanding is the plasma is better in every way except its not 1080p. And the more reflective screen is not as good as the lcd?

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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#12 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

With 1080p, the detail is there. It is actually being produced on the screen. With 720p, it is NOT. No matter how far or close you are viewing from, the eye will pick up the artifacts produced from the lower resolution image.

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rastan

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#13 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
Actually 5 feet is not an unreasonable distance to sit for a small room. I'm assuming he is not gonna be using this set in a grand ballroom with a butler and a pony in the stable. By the way the distance for a 37" is actually closer to 6-7 feet away. 32" is 5 feet. It's always subjective depending on a person's vision. A person with 20/20 vision can see the difference much more vividly. . If my choice is between a 37'" 720p and a 37" 1080p, I will aways choose the 1080p. Even if I have to sit 6 feet away from the TV to see the fine grains of my cinema. The choice is up to the viewer. Honestly you couldn't give me a 720p set, it's just such outdated technology in my view. pimperjones
It's not outdated and probably looks better with TV and games on most TV's sold because most content is still 720p and will be for some time and that content needs to be scaled. You can have perfect vision but that chart doe not lie as that is based on having perfect human vision. I guarantee you that if you saw a Pioneer Kuros 720p plasma you would choose it over any LCD panel out there. The pixels disappear and the picture become one solid, smooth image as it should be.
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rastan

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#14 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts

With 1080p, the detail is there. It is actually being produced on the screen. With 720p, it is NOT. No matter how far or close you are viewing from, the eye will pick up the artifacts produced from the lower resolution image.

Heirren
You are right but not in the way you think. The 1080p screen will be 1080p all day long just as the 720p will be 720p all day long. However for any set screen size there is a limit to the maximum screen resolution the human eye can see. You guys are falling into semi-truthful marketing specs. Also there will be artifacting, but for most content the artifacting will be seen on the 1080p set as most games natively are 720p (do your home work there are only a handful of native 1080p video games) and all cable maxes out at either 720p or 1080i. Blu-Ray is the only prevalent medium that is 1080p. Hence on 1080p the scaler is being used more often than on a 720p set. There are very good scalers out there. However, good scaling costs money and is usually reserved for the higher end sets. I have a very large screen with a 720p projector and yes I have tried a 1080p projector and yes the difference is clearly visible from 12' away on my 96" screen. That being said, standard def and cable HDTV didn't look as good on the 1080p projector as it did on my 720p. They do make better 1080p projectors now and I will eventually make the move. Scaling is very important to image quality and is the reason you should set your components to the native setting of your display. Again, please do your homework and check out this chart: http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html Also go to a store, try to calibrate 2 TV's in the same line pretty closely and then step back to the distance you would sit from them and see for yourself.
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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#15 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

You mean to tell me that, at the correct "viewing distance," you yourself wouldn't beable to tell the difference between any given tv and a real life human being? Charts shmarts, i've read and researched plenty when looking into tvs, probably too much, and i'm sorry to say, but a 1080p set just looks sharper and more natural. Plus, while I'm aware the bulk of the games aren't native 1080p, or some 720p(halo3), the scaling-4xaa/whatever the case may be-is done in the hardware of the console and then output as a 1080p image, no? I know there are settings to pick your sets resolution, but you don't think developers are stressed to provide an image that is favourable to 1080p? Part of the reality is that it's about money.

Are you going to give the same argument on 1080p(1920x1080) vs Super Hi-Vision(7680x4320), in X odd number of years?

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#16 pimperjones
Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

Final verdict if you're sitting in a small room, and you are watching from 5-6 feet away. Then 37" 1080p is more favourable to 37" 720p. Even according to the charts at 5 feet away 1080p is better. According to what I'm gathering he will be sitting between 5-6 feet away, so YES he will be able to see the difference according the charts. So, get the 1080p dude.

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rastan

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#17 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts

I mean to say that in order to see the difference between 1080p and 720p you need to sit within a certain distance to see the difference. Humans are not flat objects. If they were, at some distance a TV version of a human and the "flat human" would look the same. Just look at an inkjet produced image. If you look close, you can see the individual pixels. Move away and you will not. Go to Times Square and see a smooth advertisement from far away. Get closer and you will see the smooth advertisement is made up of very visible bulbs. Look at Earth from space and you will see no humans. Get right up close on Earth and you see humans, plants, etc. Pretty simple concept that any simple mind should be able to grasp.

As for higher resolutions, yes it will be the same argument. You would need an even bigger picture to see the difference from a set distance as the limitation is the human eye. Again, see simple solution above.

Lastly, resolution is only one factor in picture quality. You can have a very good 720p TV look BETTER than a 1080p TV if contrast, color reproduction, scaling, and motion specs are better on the 720p.

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Goeben

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#18 Goeben
Member since 2006 • 67 Posts

So how should i choose?

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pimperjones

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#19 pimperjones
Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts
If you're gonna be sitting 5-6 feet away, get 1080p. If you own a mansion and plan on sitting 12 feet away on your leopard skin sofa, uh get a 100" OLED. LOL
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rastan

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#20 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
Some times I think this is futile:-( Please don't buy anything on one spec and don;t take anyones opinion at face value-including mine. Resolution is only part of the picture. Your prospective plasma-No motion lag, better contrast, better off angle viewing, better color. Your prospective LCD - less refections in bright room, crisper with 1080p material if you sit closer than 6' from it.
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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#21 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

I mean to say that in order to see the difference between 1080p and 720p you need to sit within a certain distance to see the difference. Humans are not flat objects. If they were, at some distance a TV version of a human and the "flat human" would look the same. Just look at an inkjet produced image. If you look close, you can see the individual pixels. Move away and you will not. Go to Times Square and see a smooth advertisement from far away. Get closer and you will see the smooth advertisement is made up of very visible bulbs. Look at Earth from space and you will see no humans. Get right up close on Earth and you see humans, plants, etc. Pretty simple concept that any simple mind should be able to grasp.

As for higher resolutions, yes it will be the same argument. You would need an even bigger picture to see the difference from a set distance as the limitation is the human eye. Again, see simple solution above.

Lastly, resolution is only one factor in picture quality. You can have a very good 720p TV look BETTER than a 1080p TV if contrast, color reproduction, scaling, and motion specs are better on the 720p.

rastan

Again, I understand where all the statements you make come from. What I am saying is that, from experience, a 37 inch 1080p set is going to produce a better looking image. Plus, if he's using a 37 inch set primarily for games, he's obviously going to be sitting a tad closer, anyways.

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pimperjones

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#22 pimperjones
Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

37" inch is a good size for an 1080p TV especially for people with small apartments.
Now 32" 1080p is a bit of an overkill as you would almost need to be using it as an PC monitor to notice the difference, but then again many people do use 32" 1080p sets for PC displays. A 32" 1080p set is good for editors and colorists, since they would be sitting very close anyways.

And no a very good 720p doesn't look better than an equally good 1080p TV, that's utter nonsense. Contrast, color gamut, motion artifacting, motion blur, viewing angle have nothing to do with resolution. These are all factors that are derived from the display itself, resolution is resolution, just that and nothing more. Yes it's true that a poor 1080p TV is no better than a great 720p set, but that doesn't mean you should discount 1080 all together.

In fact I will go as far to that 1080p isn't even enough. Most displays used for advanced color timing, and post production are now hovering in the 2-4K range, in fact most studios are now digitalling mastering their old film catalogues at 8K resolution. They are now seeing things that they have never seen before on some of those old 35mm and 70mm films.

In the world of resolution, higher is always better. Because the human eye is an biological receptor, it doesn't see in digital threshholds. When you open your window and look into the real world, I can assure it is far higher than 1080p, even 8K digital imaging cannot capture all that the human eye can see.

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rastan

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#23 rastan
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts
I agree with most of this except that the human eye sees better up close than far away. Hence, 1080p/720p/480p/etc don't make a difference unless you sit close enough to see the difference. The other factor here is that all of these displays are fixed pixel. Hence a 1080p set on a 22" TV will have the same number of pixels as a 50" 1080p TV, but the pixels are larger. Hence, your eye can discern the difference from farther away on a 50" than a 22". That is what I've been trying to say and even when it is visible, you also need to take into account other factors that affect picture quality. I want to make it clear that 1080p is superior to 720p and is something you should look for in a TV (as well as the other factors that affect picture quality), with the very clear understanding that if you sit too far from it, you will not see the difference between 720p/1080p all else being equal. 2K, 4K, 8K whatever all will be affected the same way. Sure if you are close enough to a source that is mastered at a higher resolution you should be able to see it. It can get so high that you can't see it with the naked eye, but need a microscope to see, but it is always the same principle. I can't see a single atom of gold, but I can surely see a gram of gold.
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fenriz275

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#24 fenriz275
Member since 2003 • 2393 Posts

Would it be possible for you to hook up your Xbox to both and see which looks better to you? That would be the best way to decide I figure.