Why developers kill the pc versions?

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Hellboard

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#1 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

So tell me, why the pc versions of many games are so bad... Eg gta iv... id never pay for that game i swear the god.... its garbage this game should be free as a beta version... i mean screw the perfomance i can run the game at the highest settings but no textures:cry:.. how playable is that? or dead space... or the low amount of pc exclusives... or games released to pc and not only to x360 and ps3.. why the quality of those games is so freaking terrible... i mean a few years ago.. you stick the disc in and isntall .....magially the game works,,:shock: No bugs no crashes no drm no securom not insert the orignal disc, while the original disc is inserted :shock:.... No idiotic ports like gta iv!

I think the quality of pc games is descenting painfully badly... why that happens? Are they trying to make us buy a console? PlZ someon tell me that that crap will stop and we gonna play PC games in our PC and not a game that looks like a console port.... ps windows live is like xbox live....boooooo!

I wanna ask you my fellow pc gamers, is there any possibility that pc gaming will rise again... because i feel that in a few years they will proffesionaly assasinate the pc gaming and bill gates will shake hands with his newest xbox... and ill just sit in my pc watching the press confrenece in youtube and feel like those guys in the movies that are hiding and say... its conspiracy i know it...:?

So what am saying is in my opinion the facts made me worry about the future and the quality of pc gaming.

What i want is your thoughts on that matter...come one people we are all thinking of it and we experienced the facts that pc games are going from bad to worse....dont start about bad ports and piracy and drm... everyone i know owning consoles is pirating every game.... everyone expect ps3 owners.

So the thing is no matter if they are ports or not, most games look like consoles games or are bad ports from consoles... thank god we got crysis....

Your thoughts about the future.. plz someone tell me it will stop and we gonna play pc games with quality again...

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Kaelken

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#2 Kaelken
Member since 2007 • 531 Posts

Money

Next question

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osan0

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#3 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18255 Posts
on bugs. bugs are a part of PC gaming. always have been, always will be. the only game i have ever seen that was almost entirely bug free on PC at launch was freelancer..and that game was not only behind the curve technically but was in development for well over 3 years. great game though but its an exception to the rule. bugs and odd behaviour are par of the course. i cant comment on GTA4 on PC since i dont have it yet, but i would definately argue that things have gotten better over the years. the OS is in much better shape than the win 98 days. its actually a solid platform now. even vista is not as bad as windows 98 or *shudder* ME. games are also released in a better shape than they used to be. taking bethesda for example, morrowind on PC was a technical disaster with bugs that just never got fixed (like the famous CTD). the best they came up with was a workaround just to delay the inevitable. fallout 3 on the other hand is very solid in my experience. its not perfect, theres still some weird behaviour and such like but the game overall is in great shape. there are limits of course...games like vampire the masquerade bloodlines was released in a completly broken state. that clearly was an early beta. thats not acceptable. but yeah..bugs are a part of gaming life on PC. generally speaking if u keep ure drivers up to date and have good quality hardware then ull avoid most problems. also i think nthat texture bug has been solved if u have an nvidia card...new drivers sort it out. ati drivers should also be available now or very soon to fix the problem. if u dont want to deal with bugs then get a wii, DS, PS2 and/or PSP (even many PS3 and 360 games need patches and suffer from bugs now). on PC gaming going down the toilet. PC gaming at high street retail is coming to an end. the platform is going for DD with the likes of STEAM and Impulse. business models are also changing..we may be seeing a shift form games as a product to games as a service (like TV). metaboli do this...download and play whatever u like from the website for a certain mount of moolah every month. free add supported games are also getting more attention. its not dying or dead...its changing. on MS. i have a crazy theory....in 10 years time MS will want be out of the home desktop OS market and be more focused on server and integrated OSs for devices like game consoles or handheld devices. there behaviour would certainly back this up. as a voice for the PC and PC gaming..they are disgracefully pathetic. nintendo do more good for PC gaming. hell sony actually make more games for the PC than MS. with a friend like that..who needs enemies? thankfully the PC doesent need windows or MS to survive as a gaming platform. who knows..maybe a change in OS will give devs a new lease of life and bring some of that PC magic back. games that are a big buggy but also very ambitous and experimental. on the games. Dig around. alot of the more interesting PC games dont even get looked at because there developed by 1-2 guys on a shoestring budget with no marketing or PR to back them up. they wont be as polished as a high end game and they wont look as good but they can be very interesting. there was one space sim (name escapes me im afraid) developed by 1 guy that played alot like elite. u could land on planets and space stations, go on quests and so on. i was quite impressed with it but not one big website or mag ive seen has looked at it.
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_rpg_FAN

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#4 _rpg_FAN
Member since 2005 • 1418 Posts
[QUOTE="Kaelken"]

Money

Next question

Yes money they want to FORCE us to buy new hardware or console I dont have anything against new hardware (if game truly requires it like Crysis) or buying console to play some exclusive nice games BUT BELIVE ME games like GTA 4 could be made to run on 5 year old pc-s if they just put a little bit of effort. But they dont want to make it possible for everyone to play - they want you to UPGRADE or buy console - because they want MONEY BLIZZARD FTW! They are probably only big PC gaming company still alive that make quality PC games that are optimized for PC and only PC in mind. Thats why you can have 943294823 players on screen on sh*ty laptop with nice looking graphics
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Hellboard

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#5 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="osan0"]on bugs. bugs are a part of PC gaming. always have been, always will be. the only game i have ever seen that was almost entirely bug free on PC at launch was freelancer..and that game was not only behind the curve technically but was in development for well over 3 years. great game though but its an exception to the rule. bugs and odd behaviour are par of the course. i cant comment on GTA4 on PC since i dont have it yet, but i would definately argue that things have gotten better over the years. the OS is in much better shape than the win 98 days. its actually a solid platform now. even vista is not as bad as windows 98 or *shudder* ME. games are also released in a better shape than they used to be. taking bethesda for example, morrowind on PC was a technical disaster with bugs that just never got fixed (like the famous CTD). the best they came up with was a workaround just to delay the inevitable. fallout 3 on the other hand is very solid in my experience. its not perfect, theres still some weird behaviour and such like but the game overall is in great shape. there are limits of course...games like vampire the masquerade bloodlines was released in a completly broken state. that clearly was an early beta. thats not acceptable. but yeah..bugs are a part of gaming life on PC. generally speaking if u keep ure drivers up to date and have good quality hardware then ull avoid most problems. also i think nthat texture bug has been solved if u have an nvidia card...new drivers sort it out. ati drivers should also be available now or very soon to fix the problem. if u dont want to deal with bugs then get a wii, DS, PS2 and/or PSP (even many PS3 and 360 games need patches and suffer from bugs now). on PC gaming going down the toilet. PC gaming at high street retail is coming to an end. the platform is going for DD with the likes of STEAM and Impulse. business models are also changing..we may be seeing a shift form games as a product to games as a service (like TV). metaboli do this...download and play whatever u like from the website for a certain mount of moolah every month. free add supported games are also getting more attention. its not dying or dead...its changing. on MS. i have a crazy theory....in 10 years time MS will want be out of the home desktop OS market and be more focused on server and integrated OSs for devices like game consoles or handheld devices. there behaviour would certainly back this up. as a voice for the PC and PC gaming..they are disgracefully pathetic. nintendo do more good for PC gaming. hell sony actually make more games for the PC than MS. with a friend like that..who needs enemies? thankfully the PC doesent need windows or MS to survive as a gaming platform. who knows..maybe a change in OS will give devs a new lease of life and bring some of that PC magic back. games that are a big buggy but also very ambitous and experimental. on the games. Dig around. alot of the more interesting PC games dont even get looked at because there developed by 1-2 guys on a shoestring budget with no marketing or PR to back them up. they wont be as polished as a high end game and they wont look as good but they can be very interesting. there was one space sim (name escapes me im afraid) developed by 1 guy that played alot like elite. u could land on planets and space stations, go on quests and so on. i was quite impressed with it but not one big website or mag ive seen has looked at it.

well till 2003 i hardly found games got so many bugs.. also i managed to spot a silent hill port to pc by fans.. it can run perfectly fine in windows vista and dual core systems plus the new vga cards.. so all that crap about a game not been able to ported right to pc , is completely bullocks... if they put some effort in it the can do everything!
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RK-Mara

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#6 RK-Mara
Member since 2006 • 11489 Posts
They are already swimming in money thanks to the console versions, so why bother? Even Blizzard has the same policy. They don't care about few customers because they have 11 million others.
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MOCHIRON_MAN

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#7 MOCHIRON_MAN
Member since 2008 • 1359 Posts
they do it because they suck, and they want more money.
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#8 zenarblade
Member since 2008 • 25 Posts
I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :D
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MOCHIRON_MAN

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#9 MOCHIRON_MAN
Member since 2008 • 1359 Posts

I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :Dzenarblade

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

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Hellboard

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#11 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

[QUOTE="zenarblade"]I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :DMOCHIRON_MAN

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

Apart from that drm and anti piracy methods are a pain in the ass, and everyone and crack them and play online... or get the "you are a pirate insert the original dvd while its in the drive" So the piracy is BULLOCKS As for optimization, this is what consoles are based on... bad optimization bad graphics on consoles... i never seen a game that is available in pc and consoles at the same time and has bad graphics on consoles, but at the same time it has bad graphics and high requirements in pc.... i never seen a game with bad graphics on consoles that has low requirements in pc.... Ohh and dead space is extremely well optimized for pc.. no more hating EA:)
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WDT-BlackKat

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#12 WDT-BlackKat
Member since 2008 • 1779 Posts
Actually the two games mentioned as evidence in the OP are, while prone to some as yet unpatched bugs, prime examples of how good PC gaming still is. GTA IV runs poorly only on older computers and is hands down the best GTA game to date. Sure the RSC/GFW stuff is a pain. But it's all bypassable. I might note that GTA IV on medium on latest hardware is better by a long shot over how it looked and played on the XBox360 which had some serious perfomance issues with the game itself. And while I still find the viewing perspective of Dead Space an annoyance, the gameplay and story is rather good, no major bugs. So what's the problem?
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MOCHIRON_MAN

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#13 MOCHIRON_MAN
Member since 2008 • 1359 Posts
[QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"]

[QUOTE="zenarblade"]I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :DHellboard

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

Apart from that drm and anti piracy methods are a pain in the ass, and everyone and crack them and play online... or get the "you are a pirate insert the original dvd while its in the drive" So the piracy is BULLOCKS As for optimization, this is what consoles are based on... bad optimization bad graphics on consoles... i never seen a game that is available in pc and consoles at the same time and has bad graphics on consoles, but at the same time it has bad graphics and high requirements in pc.... i never seen a game with bad graphics on consoles that has low requirements in pc.... Ohh and dead space is extremely well optimized for pc.. no more hating EA:)

Oh yes, Dead Space is doing great on PC.

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RobertBowen

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#14 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

I don't think it's as much the fault of the developers, as the publishers. If the publisher tells a dev that game X has to be ported to PC but don't give the devs enough money or time to make a reasonable port, is it any wonder that some ports turn out to be unoptimised and buggy? Some developers, such as Bioware, have shown that given a decent amount of time and effort, they can produce a great port (as in KoTOR) with PC-centric interface and some additional content. Unfortunately, I don't think many devs are given that opportunity.

Multi-platform development is the way ahead for many devs/publishers because they cannot justify large budgets on PC only titles that generally do not sell as well as their console counterparts. There are exceptions, of course, from devs like Valve who are still largely pc-centric, and some great games coming from relatively unknown devs (like CD Projekt and GSC Gameworld), but quality can be an issue with such titles because they may not have access to rigorous Q&A etc. that meets the standards of western devs.

Piracy is the big bug-bear of the industry at the moment, and rightly so, because they need to get X amount of sales to make a profit due to larger budgets (on AAA titles). Basically they need to sell more units to break even these days, and with tighter deadlines quality is bound to suffer as a result. Which is why we've seen so many games pushed out the door early (some in practically beta state) to get holiday sales, for example, and then get patched later.

Of course it's all about maximising profits - that's the main reason why they make games in the first place, to make money. It's a business, like any other. Unfortunately they're just cutting too many corners these days.

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Hellboard

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#15 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

Actually the two games mentioned as evidence in the OP are, while prone to some as yet unpatched bugs, prime examples of how good PC gaming still is. GTA IV runs poorly only on older computers and is hands down the best GTA game to date. Sure the RSC/GFW stuff is a pain. But it's all bypassable. I might note that GTA IV on medium on latest hardware is better by a long shot over how it looked and played on the XBox360 which had some serious perfomance issues with the game itself. And while I still find the viewing perspective of Dead Space an annoyance, the gameplay and story is rather good, no major bugs.

So what's the problem?WDT-BlackKat

that you dont know what you are talking about thats the problem.... plz gta iv runs terribly in 800 gt or 8600 gt while 8600 gt is reccomende video card as for 9600 gso.. no lag but almost all textures are missing!

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Hellboard

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#16 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Hellboard"][QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"]

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

MOCHIRON_MAN

Apart from that drm and anti piracy methods are a pain in the ass, and everyone and crack them and play online... or get the "you are a pirate insert the original dvd while its in the drive" So the piracy is BULLOCKS As for optimization, this is what consoles are based on... bad optimization bad graphics on consoles... i never seen a game that is available in pc and consoles at the same time and has bad graphics on consoles, but at the same time it has bad graphics and high requirements in pc.... i never seen a game with bad graphics on consoles that has low requirements in pc.... Ohh and dead space is extremely well optimized for pc.. no more hating EA:)

Oh yes, Dead Space is doing great on PC.

i dont know if you used sarcasm but i was reffering to the graphical optimization.. but people seem to like it despite the few problems!
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MOCHIRON_MAN

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#17 MOCHIRON_MAN
Member since 2008 • 1359 Posts
[QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"][QUOTE="Hellboard"] Apart from that drm and anti piracy methods are a pain in the ass, and everyone and crack them and play online... or get the "you are a pirate insert the original dvd while its in the drive" So the piracy is BULLOCKS As for optimization, this is what consoles are based on... bad optimization bad graphics on consoles... i never seen a game that is available in pc and consoles at the same time and has bad graphics on consoles, but at the same time it has bad graphics and high requirements in pc.... i never seen a game with bad graphics on consoles that has low requirements in pc.... Ohh and dead space is extremely well optimized for pc.. no more hating EA:)Hellboard

Oh yes, Dead Space is doing great on PC.

i dont know if you used sarcasm but i was reffering to the graphical optimization.. but people seem to like it despite the few problems!

Nope. I meant it. I really want to try it on PC. before I try it on PS3.

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Hellboard

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#18 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

I don't think it's as much the fault of the developers, as the publishers. If the publisher tells a dev that game X has to be ported to PC but don't give the devs enough money or time to make a reasonable port, is it any wonder that some ports turn out to be unoptimised and buggy? Some developers, such as Bioware, have shown that given a decent amount of time and effort, they can produce a great port (as in KoTOR) with PC-centric interface and some additional content. Unfortunately, I don't think many devs are given that opportunity.

Multi-platform development is the way ahead for many devs/publishers because they cannot justify large budgets on PC only titles that generally do not sell as well as their console counterparts. There are exceptions, of course, from devs like Valve who are still largely pc-centric, and some great games coming from relatively unknown devs (like CD Projekt and GSC Gameworld), but quality can be an issue with such titles because they may not have access to rigorous Q&A etc. that meets the standards of western devs.

Piracy is the big bug-bear of the industry at the moment, and rightly so, because they need to get X amount of sales to make a profit due to larger budgets (on AAA titles). Basically they need to sell more units to break even these days, and with tighter deadlines quality is bound to suffer as a result. Which is why we've seen so many games pushed out the door early (some in practically beta state) to get holiday sales, for example, and then get patched later.

Of course it's all about maximising profits - that's the main reason why they make games in the first place, to make money. It's a business, like any other. Unfortunately they're just cutting too many corners these days.

RobertBowen
ask me, i think that however says: "i cant wait release it now"... is foolish. no offense... but always giving time to complete the game... let it take forever.. years... as long its fine and dandy.. seriously would anyone mind if gta iv was release a month latter or two? ok its christmas but what if it was march or April would anyone mind if it takes a month or two later?
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dinuattila

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#19 dinuattila
Member since 2005 • 1355 Posts
Money and piracy.
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Hellboard

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#20 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
Money and piracy.dinuattila
piracy is higher and much easier on consoles... but people are too noobish for it.... no offense but most console gamers dont know how to use an os deeply , i mean using the capabilities and creating stuff in it.. if they knew how to pirate them dont you think they alll do? they just make money out of consoles because they dont pirate that easily and they give pc users a bad beta port that is not worth paying...they pirate it anyway :)..... and gamespot doesnt even bother video review the pc games... what do pcs ever did to this world:(
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#21 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts
[QUOTE="RobertBowen"]

I don't think it's as much the fault of the developers, as the publishers. If the publisher tells a dev that game X has to be ported to PC but don't give the devs enough money or time to make a reasonable port, is it any wonder that some ports turn out to be unoptimised and buggy? Some developers, such as Bioware, have shown that given a decent amount of time and effort, they can produce a great port (as in KoTOR) with PC-centric interface and some additional content. Unfortunately, I don't think many devs are given that opportunity.

Multi-platform development is the way ahead for many devs/publishers because they cannot justify large budgets on PC only titles that generally do not sell as well as their console counterparts. There are exceptions, of course, from devs like Valve who are still largely pc-centric, and some great games coming from relatively unknown devs (like CD Projekt and GSC Gameworld), but quality can be an issue with such titles because they may not have access to rigorous Q&A etc. that meets the standards of western devs.

Piracy is the big bug-bear of the industry at the moment, and rightly so, because they need to get X amount of sales to make a profit due to larger budgets (on AAA titles). Basically they need to sell more units to break even these days, and with tighter deadlines quality is bound to suffer as a result. Which is why we've seen so many games pushed out the door early (some in practically beta state) to get holiday sales, for example, and then get patched later.

Of course it's all about maximising profits - that's the main reason why they make games in the first place, to make money. It's a business, like any other. Unfortunately they're just cutting too many corners these days.

Hellboard
ask me, i think that however says: "i cant wait release it now"... is foolish. no offense... but always giving time to complete the game... let it take forever.. years... as long its fine and dandy.. seriously would anyone mind if gta iv was release a month latter or two? ok its christmas but what if it was march or April would anyone mind if it takes a month or two later?

They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?
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Hellboard

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#22 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Hellboard"][QUOTE="RobertBowen"]

I don't think it's as much the fault of the developers, as the publishers. If the publisher tells a dev that game X has to be ported to PC but don't give the devs enough money or time to make a reasonable port, is it any wonder that some ports turn out to be unoptimised and buggy? Some developers, such as Bioware, have shown that given a decent amount of time and effort, they can produce a great port (as in KoTOR) with PC-centric interface and some additional content. Unfortunately, I don't think many devs are given that opportunity.

Multi-platform development is the way ahead for many devs/publishers because they cannot justify large budgets on PC only titles that generally do not sell as well as their console counterparts. There are exceptions, of course, from devs like Valve who are still largely pc-centric, and some great games coming from relatively unknown devs (like CD Projekt and GSC Gameworld), but quality can be an issue with such titles because they may not have access to rigorous Q&A etc. that meets the standards of western devs.

Piracy is the big bug-bear of the industry at the moment, and rightly so, because they need to get X amount of sales to make a profit due to larger budgets (on AAA titles). Basically they need to sell more units to break even these days, and with tighter deadlines quality is bound to suffer as a result. Which is why we've seen so many games pushed out the door early (some in practically beta state) to get holiday sales, for example, and then get patched later.

Of course it's all about maximising profits - that's the main reason why they make games in the first place, to make money. It's a business, like any other. Unfortunately they're just cutting too many corners these days.

RobertBowen
ask me, i think that however says: "i cant wait release it now"... is foolish. no offense... but always giving time to complete the game... let it take forever.. years... as long its fine and dandy.. seriously would anyone mind if gta iv was release a month latter or two? ok its christmas but what if it was march or April would anyone mind if it takes a month or two later?

They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?

WOW you are right brother more time means more expenses, however how stalker was under that long time in development and the witcher still ahs bugs or crashes... i had some... Or how they release games like boiling point and that game has quality assurance...
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dinuattila

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#23 dinuattila
Member since 2005 • 1355 Posts

[QUOTE="dinuattila"]Money and piracy.Hellboard
piracy is higher and much easier on consoles... but people are too noobish for it.... no offense but most console gamers dont know how to use an os deeply , i mean using the capabilities and creating stuff in it.. if they knew how to pirate them dont you think they alll do? they just make money out of consoles because they dont pirate that easily and they give pc users a bad beta port that is not worth paying...they pirate it anyway :)..... and gamespot doesnt even bother video review the pc games... what do pcs ever did to this world:(

That is right,but lets see....PS 3 games can't be pirated,thats good :D,even if the X360 games can be pirated,Microsoft has its precious Live and people choose to play on Live rather than not :P.Wish we could do something about piracy on the PC,than i am pretty sure devs wouldn't kill the PC version of the games(look at GTA 4....).And relating to your question what the PC did to this world?...the PC was the very first to be created,i think :D.Pretty old by now :P

Peace

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Hellboard

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#24 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

[QUOTE="Hellboard"][QUOTE="dinuattila"]Money and piracy.dinuattila

piracy is higher and much easier on consoles... but people are too noobish for it.... no offense but most console gamers dont know how to use an os deeply , i mean using the capabilities and creating stuff in it.. if they knew how to pirate them dont you think they alll do? they just make money out of consoles because they dont pirate that easily and they give pc users a bad beta port that is not worth paying...they pirate it anyway :)..... and gamespot doesnt even bother video review the pc games... what do pcs ever did to this world:(

That is right,but lets see....PS 3 games can't be pirated,thats good :D,even if the X360 games can be pirated,Microsoft has its precious Live and people choose to play on Live rather than not :P.Wish we could do something about piracy on the PC,than i am pretty sure devs wouldn't kill the PC version of the games(look at GTA 4....).And relating to your question what the PC did to this world?...the PC was the very first to be created,i think :D.Pretty old by now :P

Peace

i d say pc is the reason we can do all those things, internet ,posting, gaming, hell even consoles...
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dan-rofl-copter

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#25 dan-rofl-copter
Member since 2008 • 2702 Posts
pc gaming is the smaller platform so to them they think it requires less time when they make etc but team fortress 2 is a lot better on pc than a console, and then again so are all valve games
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WDT-BlackKat

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#26 WDT-BlackKat
Member since 2008 • 1779 Posts

[QUOTE="WDT-BlackKat"]Actually the two games mentioned as evidence in the OP are, while prone to some as yet unpatched bugs, prime examples of how good PC gaming still is. GTA IV runs poorly only on older computers and is hands down the best GTA game to date. Sure the RSC/GFW stuff is a pain. But it's all bypassable. I might note that GTA IV on medium on latest hardware is better by a long shot over how it looked and played on the XBox360 which had some serious perfomance issues with the game itself. And while I still find the viewing perspective of Dead Space an annoyance, the gameplay and story is rather good, no major bugs.

So what's the problem?Hellboard

that you dont know what you are talking about thats the problem.... plz gta iv runs terribly in 800 gt or 8600 gt while 8600 gt is reccomende video card as for 9600 gso.. no lag but almost all textures are missing!

So get a better video card. A cheap as hell GTX 260 runs the game very well.
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Hellboard

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#27 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Hellboard"]

[QUOTE="WDT-BlackKat"]Actually the two games mentioned as evidence in the OP are, while prone to some as yet unpatched bugs, prime examples of how good PC gaming still is. GTA IV runs poorly only on older computers and is hands down the best GTA game to date. Sure the RSC/GFW stuff is a pain. But it's all bypassable. I might note that GTA IV on medium on latest hardware is better by a long shot over how it looked and played on the XBox360 which had some serious perfomance issues with the game itself. And while I still find the viewing perspective of Dead Space an annoyance, the gameplay and story is rather good, no major bugs.

So what's the problem?WDT-BlackKat

that you dont know what you are talking about thats the problem.... plz gta iv runs terribly in 800 gt or 8600 gt while 8600 gt is reccomende video card as for 9600 gso.. no lag but almost all textures are missing!

So get a better video card. A cheap as hell GTX 260 runs the game very well.

in a world that the 9800 gtx performs medium on that game and you tell me to waste my money on a gtx 260 or an 9800 gx2 which cost a load of money... while my 9800 gtx or 9800 gt pawns every game apart from gta, id say sorry but id ask you to reconsider.. aint cheaper to play any other game in max settings including crysis, or even cheaper to buy and x360 and gta iv for it..... id say that there is a problem... that this port sucks and paying so much money for a gtx 260 is like going to the shop and say i wanna run every game on max.... but the cake is a lie... gta iv is the only game that no card including gtx 260 cant run fully... so yeah cake is a lie gta iv sucks badly in optimization and thats a problem!
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WDT-BlackKat

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#28 WDT-BlackKat
Member since 2008 • 1779 Posts
[QUOTE="WDT-BlackKat"][QUOTE="Hellboard"]

that you dont know what you are talking about thats the problem.... plz gta iv runs terribly in 800 gt or 8600 gt while 8600 gt is reccomende video card as for 9600 gso.. no lag but almost all textures are missing!

Hellboard

So get a better video card. A cheap as hell GTX 260 runs the game very well.

in a world that the 9800 gtx performs medium on that game and you tell me to waste my money on a gtx 260 or an 9800 gx2 which cost a load of money... while my 9800 gtx or 9800 gt pawns every game apart from gta, id say sorry but id ask you to reconsider.. aint cheaper to play any other game in max settings including crysis, or even cheaper to buy and x360 and gta iv for it..... id say that there is a problem... that this port sucks and paying so much money for a gtx 260 is like going to the shop and say i wanna run every game on max.... but the cake is a lie... gta iv is the only game that no card including gtx 260 cant run fully... so yeah cake is a lie gta iv sucks badly in optimization and thats a problem!

You're forgetting two things:

The XBOX360 had serious performance issues with GTA IV.

Playing the game on medium is still visually better looking than the console versions (presuming you're turning texture settings to medium in order to allow other things to be turned up such as draw distance and resolution).

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RobertBowen

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#29 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

WOW you are right brother more time means more expenses, however how stalker was under that long time in development and the witcher still ahs bugs or crashes... i had some... Or how they release games like boiling point and that game has quality assurance...Hellboard

Taking STALKER as an example:

That game was in development hell for a long time, and did not initially have a publisher. I don't know how they were financed, but the developer was too ambitious with the number of features they wanted to put in their game, and probably spread themselves too thin trying to get it all done. When they did get a publisher, they were put on a better schedule and some of the things they wanted to do were cut. In that case, the publisher actually helped to get them back on track and focused on the core gameplay, and trimmed off some of the excess fat. Yes, the game was still buggy on release, because the publisher wanted to get the game out there after such a long production time.

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Hellboard

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#30 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Hellboard"][QUOTE="WDT-BlackKat"] So get a better video card. A cheap as hell GTX 260 runs the game very well.WDT-BlackKat
in a world that the 9800 gtx performs medium on that game and you tell me to waste my money on a gtx 260 or an 9800 gx2 which cost a load of money... while my 9800 gtx or 9800 gt pawns every game apart from gta, id say sorry but id ask you to reconsider.. aint cheaper to play any other game in max settings including crysis, or even cheaper to buy and x360 and gta iv for it..... id say that there is a problem... that this port sucks and paying so much money for a gtx 260 is like going to the shop and say i wanna run every game on max.... but the cake is a lie... gta iv is the only game that no card including gtx 260 cant run fully... so yeah cake is a lie gta iv sucks badly in optimization and thats a problem!

You're forgetting two things:

The XBOX360 had serious performance issues with GTA IV.

Playing the game on medium is still visually better looking than the console versions (presuming you're turning texture settings to medium in order to allow other things to be turned up such as draw distance and resolution).

so i did in my friend's 9600 gso.. not a bad video card.. and most textures are missing!
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artistry_

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#31 artistry_
Member since 2004 • 488 Posts
never buying a console. period.
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Hellboard

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#32 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

[QUOTE="Hellboard"]WOW you are right brother more time means more expenses, however how stalker was under that long time in development and the witcher still ahs bugs or crashes... i had some... Or how they release games like boiling point and that game has quality assurance...RobertBowen

Taking STALKER as an example:

That game was in development hell for a long time, and did not initially have a publisher. I don't know how they were financed, but the developer was too ambitious with the number of features they wanted to put in their game, and probably spread themselves too thin trying to get it all done. When they did get a publisher, they were put on a better schedule and some of the things they wanted to do were cut. In that case, the publisher actually helped to get them back on track and focused on the core gameplay, and trimmed off some of the excess fat. Yes, the game was still buggy on release, because the publisher wanted to get the game out there after such a long production time.

ask me i didnt like it that much since most of the stuff the said they weren't in the actual release, i had no bugs however... we also got clear sky.. now thats how stalker should be in the first place.. but so buggy and broken... they didnt have time to fix the bugs!
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harrisi17

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#33 harrisi17
Member since 2004 • 4010 Posts

Money

Next question

Kaelken

this pretty much hits it on the nose.

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zanelli

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#34 zanelli  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 1224 Posts

[QUOTE="zenarblade"]I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :DMOCHIRON_MAN

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

Okay this might be a little long winded but it's an important point here.

All the consoles are built down to a budget and all PC gamers know if they budget there rig not to expect maxing out there graphics.

Due to the fact that all console technology is based off existing pc technology (what do you think games are made on), I know that even the low end Core 2 Duos will be faster than the PS3's processor. None of Intel's Core 2's are base clocked at 4.2, so I can easily say without checking the PS3 is not clocked at 6.1 (clock speeds are not multiplied by cores; they're just two processors running at the same speed), but modern day pc gaming isn't as processor based as a few years ago and puts more stress on the graphics card than anything else.

This is because of the traditional PC gaming setup, which uses higher than HD resolutions, large textures and large amounts of anti-aliasing to provide the best experience while sat at a close distance to the screen.

PC gaming is the bleeding edge of gaming which makes it hard to develop for such widely varied hardware.

So to tie this all together; developers have gotten lazy, because it's easier to optimise a game for the set hardware of a consol. So my advice is if you want to play ports on a PC you'll need a High End system with some of the latest hardware.

PC games will always be miles ahead of the consol.

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Hellboard

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#35 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"]

[QUOTE="zenarblade"]I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :Dzanelli

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

Okay this might be a little long winded but it's an important point here.

All the consoles are built down to a budget and all PC gamers know if they budget there rig not to expect maxing out there graphics.

Due to the fact that all console technology is based off existing pc technology (what do you think games are made on), I know that even the low end Core 2 Duos will be faster than the PS3's processor. None of Intel's Core 2's are base clocked at 4.2, so I can easily say without checking the PS3 is not clocked at 6.1 (clock speeds are not multiplied by cores; they're just two processors running at the same speed), but modern day pc gaming isn't as processor based as a few years ago and puts more stress on the graphics card than anything else.

This is because of the traditional PC gaming setup, which uses higher than HD resolutions, large textures and large amounts of anti-aliasing to provide the best experience while sat at a close distance to the screen.

PC gaming is the bleeding edge of gaming which makes it hard to develop for such widely varied hardware.

So to tie this all together; developers have gotten lazy, because it's easier to optimise a game for the set hardware of a consol. So my advice is if you want to play ports on a PC you'll need a High End system with some of the latest hardware.

PC games will always be miles ahead of the consol.

id say the scre the port eg in some cards you can run it on max but with no lag...the textures dissapear!

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zanelli

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#36 zanelli  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 1224 Posts

id say the scre the port eg in some cards you can run it on max but with no lag...the textures dissapear!

Hellboard

Erm are you typing with your feet?

I'll have to get GTAIV to see how it runs on my now aging 88gtx, other ports from this year like DMC4, Assassins Creed and Mass Effect, run perfectly on the higher settings, so I hope it's going to be the same.

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MOCHIRON_MAN

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#37 MOCHIRON_MAN
Member since 2008 • 1359 Posts
[QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"]

[QUOTE="zenarblade"]I don't think so. The developers want to protect their games (like whit Secu-ROM) and to prevent piracy (like clone CD-s). The bad thing is that in the moment PC's are far away from the consoles. An example: an INTEL (c) DUAL-CORE (c) is clocked (in allmost casses) at 4.2 Ghz, and a Playstation 3 is clocked at ~ 6.110 Ghz. So, what? It seems that the consoles are much more "efficient" than the PC's, so the developers are orientated for consoles. :Dzanelli

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

Okay this might be a little long winded but it's an important point here.

All the consoles are built down to a budget and all PC gamers know if they budget there rig not to expect maxing out there graphics.

Due to the fact that all console technology is based off existing pc technology (what do you think games are made on), I know that even the low end Core 2 Duos will be faster than the PS3's processor. None of Intel's Core 2's are base clocked at 4.2, so I can easily say without checking the PS3 is not clocked at 6.1 (clock speeds are not multiplied by cores; they're just two processors running at the same speed), but modern day pc gaming isn't as processor based as a few years ago and puts more stress on the graphics card than anything else.

This is because of the traditional PC gaming setup, which uses higher than HD resolutions, large textures and large amounts of anti-aliasing to provide the best experience while sat at a close distance to the screen.

PC gaming is the bleeding edge of gaming which makes it hard to develop for such widely varied hardware.

So to tie this all together; developers have gotten lazy, because it's easier to optimise a game for the set hardware of a consol. So my advice is if you want to play ports on a PC you'll need a High End system with some of the latest hardware.

PC games will always be miles ahead of the consol.

Right there people, right there; zaneli has the 100% true answer to this, that PC's can have millions of different compatible parts, and that game consoles have a couple compadible parts. with the millions of parts, and what not, compare to a few, which would people choose over the other? Probably the console, because its everything, in one package.

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Makari

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#38 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="RobertBowen"]They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?

As often as not, the developers do it because -they- run out of money themselves. It's not solely the publisher doing it, though the onus is often on the publisher to not let themselves go broke in the process. As an example I'd point at Bohemia with Armed Assault - they released the game as something of a buggy mess in Europe because they just plain ran out of money, and had to get some income to finish the game. The publisher didn't force that one at all, it was just their own realities getting in the way.
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psychodrone

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#39 psychodrone
Member since 2008 • 128 Posts
The day PC gaming dies will be the day i stop playing games......
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ShotGunBunny

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#40 ShotGunBunny
Member since 2004 • 2184 Posts
They can't program a decent game.
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RobertBowen

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#41 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

[QUOTE="RobertBowen"]They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?Makari
As often as not, the developers do it because -they- run out of money themselves. It's not solely the publisher doing it, though the onus is often on the publisher to not let themselves go broke in the process. As an example I'd point at Bohemia with Armed Assault - they released the game as something of a buggy mess in Europe because they just plain ran out of money, and had to get some income to finish the game. The publisher didn't force that one at all, it was just their own realities getting in the way.

Well, it still all comes back to finance. I talked about publishers because, generally, they are the ones holding the purse strings. Of course there are devs trying to find other sources of funding on their own and running into difficulties, but it still largely comes down to cashflow at the end of the day. There will be exceptions as well, like 3Drealms, who have been in development hell for the past ten years, which must be some kind of a record. Blizzard, of course, is basically printing their own money with WOW.

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Hellboard

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#42 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Hellboard"]

id say the scre the port eg in some cards you can run it on max but with no lag...the textures dissapear!

zanelli

Erm are you typing with your feet?

I'll have to get GTAIV to see how it runs on my now aging 88gtx, other ports from this year like DMC4, Assassins Creed and Mass Effect, run perfectly on the higher settings, so I hope it's going to be the same.

I missed a letter you did too in your previous post.... now hope? you dont have the game right? am gonna have to ask you to step outside then.. no offense.. ohh and hope is the shield against the crap of life... every year we hope that a game is gonna be great, but.... well in that case rockstar games shove that shield right up in our eyes and we bleeding it out!
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Hellboard

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#43 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="zanelli"][QUOTE="MOCHIRON_MAN"]

That has nothing to do with it; Ever heard of a little thing called "Optimization"?

MOCHIRON_MAN

Okay this might be a little long winded but it's an important point here.

All the consoles are built down to a budget and all PC gamers know if they budget there rig not to expect maxing out there graphics.

Due to the fact that all console technology is based off existing pc technology (what do you think games are made on), I know that even the low end Core 2 Duos will be faster than the PS3's processor. None of Intel's Core 2's are base clocked at 4.2, so I can easily say without checking the PS3 is not clocked at 6.1 (clock speeds are not multiplied by cores; they're just two processors running at the same speed), but modern day pc gaming isn't as processor based as a few years ago and puts more stress on the graphics card than anything else.

This is because of the traditional PC gaming setup, which uses higher than HD resolutions, large textures and large amounts of anti-aliasing to provide the best experience while sat at a close distance to the screen.

PC gaming is the bleeding edge of gaming which makes it hard to develop for such widely varied hardware.

So to tie this all together; developers have gotten lazy, because it's easier to optimise a game for the set hardware of a consol. So my advice is if you want to play ports on a PC you'll need a High End system with some of the latest hardware.

PC games will always be miles ahead of the consol.

Right there people, right there; zaneli has the 100% true answer to this, that PC's can have millions of different compatible parts, and that game consoles have a couple compadible parts. with the millions of parts, and what not, compare to a few, which would people choose over the other? Probably the console, because its everything, in one package.

not an answer.. the question was why the pc developers are killing the pc versions.. they didnt in the past and they were consoles available!
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Hellboard

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#44 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="RobertBowen"]They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?

As often as not, the developers do it because -they- run out of money themselves. It's not solely the publisher doing it, though the onus is often on the publisher to not let themselves go broke in the process. As an example I'd point at Bohemia with Armed Assault - they released the game as something of a buggy mess in Europe because they just plain ran out of money, and had to get some income to finish the game. The publisher didn't force that one at all, it was just their own realities getting in the way.

yeah i played this games for 5 mintues...
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Hellboard

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#45 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
They can't program a decent game.ShotGunBunny
yeah but they could in the past so.... why all that crap programming nowadays?
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Hellboard

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#46 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="RobertBowen"]They cannot allow a game to be in production for years unless they have the money to enable them to do that. Most devs have a finite budget to work with, and have to meet a deadline set by the publisher. Sometimes they are given more time (and games get delayed as a result), which is great for us as gamers because we get a more polished product. Unfortunately, many devs are not in this position and have to rush a game out of the door. Again, it comes right back to financing, and the people in control of the purse-strings are usually the publishers. I don't think you will find many devs who want to release a buggy unfinished game, but if the publisher tells them to release it, what choice do they have? They are under contract, after all, and if the budget has been used where is the extra money coming from to extend development?RobertBowen

As often as not, the developers do it because -they- run out of money themselves. It's not solely the publisher doing it, though the onus is often on the publisher to not let themselves go broke in the process. As an example I'd point at Bohemia with Armed Assault - they released the game as something of a buggy mess in Europe because they just plain ran out of money, and had to get some income to finish the game. The publisher didn't force that one at all, it was just their own realities getting in the way.

Well, it still all comes back to finance. I talked about publishers because, generally, they are the ones holding the purse strings. Of course there are devs trying to find other sources of funding on their own and running into difficulties, but it still largely comes down to cashflow at the end of the day. There will be exceptions as well, like 3Drealms, who have been in development hell for the past ten years, which must be some kind of a record. Blizzard, of course, is basically printing their own money with WOW.

heheh i loved the "printing their money with wow" :), anyway i just remembered ea they got a load of cash but instead of let the developers finish the games, they make them finish them fast.... when the games are done they say game is ok... now release it, but they got the money so wtf? they release so many games.. and so fast, why dont they let them complete the games? there not gonna be any money loss in my opinion.... they work on patches later on anyway...so why is this how they getting richer? by cutting needles expenses?
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xipotec

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#47 xipotec
Member since 2005 • 493 Posts

I thnk this is a terrible game, that feels like a port. Looks good I guess. BUt it is definetly a console game before PC. Thas why its so boring.

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kodex1717

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#48 kodex1717
Member since 2005 • 5925 Posts
If you look in the credits of PC ports, you'll notice that only one or two people actually worked on porting the game. With teams that small, it's no wonder that we have to be satisfied with half-assed ports.
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Hellboard

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#49 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
If you look in the credits of PC ports, you'll notice that only one or two people actually worked on porting the game. With teams that small, it's no wonder that we have to be satisfied with half-assed ports.kodex1717
lol its like saying did rockstar actually work at ait at all? HELL NO... but again in gears of war the credits are the same as x360... lol it even says gears of war team for x360 on the top!

I thnk this is a terrible game, that feels like a port. Looks good I guess. BUt it is definetly a console game before PC. Thas why its so boring.

xipotec
what game?
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Alter_Echo

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#50 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts

It revolves around 2 problems which are subsequently one in the same.

One being the fact that when making a PC game you have to take a lot more variables into consideration. Hardware, drivers, compatibility etc etc etc.

The sweet spot for PC developed games is tiny in comparison to a console version where the applicable hardware is the same and there arent nearly as many concerns with compatibility or finicky drivers and such.

The second problem relates to the profit to effort ratio for a PC version of any given game. The PC version will usually be 20% cheaper than its console counterpart. With this considered, coupled with the above mentioned problem, there is very little incentive to polish up the PC version when it will take more time and in the end sell for less money than the console version of the same game.

Its business in its purest form. Whatever will net them the most profit for the least amount of effort will ultimately get the most attention.