Why do people hate Vista?

OK, I'm not sure if all the Vista bad-talk is a bunch of internet drama or for real. But I can definitely say that I like Vista (running 64bit), and I think it's better. I like the fast search function; I like the interface; I like the new look in general. I don't get what's everyone complaining about, do you? I haven't had any crashes or bugs or any of that stuff. I don't have anybody that uses my PC, but the user system definitely has to be a HUGE plus for families. The only thing bad that I can really say about Vista is that the default Vista background is UGLY compared to the nice meadow background of XP. Not a big deal, but it hurts your image. :P There are a bunch of bad point about Vista (price, compatability, adoptability), but that just comes with the growing pains of a new OS. That doesn't mean Vista is crap does it? And I don't want to hear stuff about Linux being better cause, 1) I play games and 2) enjoy using only 1 OS. Face it guys, we're stuck with a M$ OS. :(

The only way I can see why a person would hate Vista is if they're running on dated hardware. My Vista64 runs fast, but I think that has to do with my having a good PC more than Vista. I also don't see how this OS actually helps games as M$ was saying. But in the end, I like Vista. Do you?

I don't completely hate it, but there are some things that tick me off:

1. the amount of hard drive thrashing seems to be crazy, and that was when it was just installed.

2. the new users folder layout just completely kills it for me, I loved how user profiles worked in XP - I just want a god damn My Docs folder, not a folder with folders to everything ...

3. I don't like the new Network and Sharing Centre in Vista - too simplified

Well that's me, as you can tell, I don't like simplicity..

because they have never sat down and tried it on a decent system before.theshadowhunter

Compatiblity, driver issues, revised control panel, system requirements and lots more fluff for no reason.

The only good things are really DirectX 10 and the new application prevention security.

vista came out too early imo, if it would had came out in maybe 2010 and m$ would have taken there sweet time making it then it would have been great.bxgt

The gap between Vista and XP was the longest ever gap between two Microsoft OS's.

1) I play games and 2) enjoy using only 1 OS. Face it guys, we're stuck with a M$ OS. :(

phan1

.....Ottozero

[QUOTE="Ottozero"].....Trappwn

1. (nearly) every peripheral manufacturer out there (for stuff from cameras to printers to scanners, etc.) have all taken a "wait and see" approach, not really making anything for Vista until SP1 is released. If you want to use your existing printer/scanner/etc. and there's no vista driver out there? tough. At the same time, no new devices that are "made for Vista", either.
2. With Windows XP, it was possible to simply get away with purchasing an OEM version and transferring it as you needed to without worrying *too* much about the reactivation process. With Vista, Microsoft can more readily enforce the "you can only install OEM on a single system" rule.
3. You have to buy the retail copy of Vista to get both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, or basically buy two separate OEM copies to have it.
4. You have to buy the Ultimate one to get "the worth it" version.
5. Microsoft used to have a perfectly good, technical reason for why DirectX 10 wouldn't work on Windows XP or anything earlier. In backpedaling to allow nvidia to create a stable driver for the OS, MS removed the one thing that legitimately could have kept DX10 from working on Windows XP, making Vista look even more like we're just being forced into it, whereas XP had some very obvious advantages over 2k and Me when it came out.
6. No OpenGL means over half my favorite games won't work. KotOR, that new ET:QW demo, (possibly) Serious Sam 2, all id games? nope, you're SOL if you use Vista.
7. MS ditches EAX for OpenAL to try and break the Creative monopoly... but even 99% of games that are out or will be coming out will expect EAX for hardware audio acceleration. Ironically, the move to break the Creative monopoly on the market only cements it further when Creative only is able to provide software to translate EAX hardware calls to OpenAL so they could be hardware accelerated, and it only works with an X-Fi sound card. So Audigy users and everyone else who has a different kind of sound card is immediately SOL and has to buy an X-Fi.
8. Too many interface inconsistencies... they have a bright round blue button for "back" in a typical install dialog box to the top left corner, but then a small, text-based "next" button in the bottom right. What the **** sense does that make?
9. Aero is a blatant and very bad ripoff of the Aqua (+ Core graphics) hardware-accelerated GUI in OS X... and it has nothing that could do what Exposé does
10. A typical CD/DVD burned in Windows Vista can be unreadable in any OS other than Vista.
11. **AA wants me to have a 64-bit Vista in order to play HD-DVD/BluRay movies, when the bittedness of the OS has nothing to do with playback of these movies. All they'd really have to do is just recompile the player program to work in XP, etc. and there's nothing about the software that would prevent it from working in even as far back as Windows NT4/9x for crying out loud. So what the **** is their excuse?
12. The few games that "require" Vista (Halo 2 and Shadowrun) are a complete joke. And what would they need them for? "Windows LIVE"...
13. Speaking of Windows LIVE, what PC gamer wants to then have to pay $50/year to be able to do all the online stuff that they've been doing for free for decades?
14. The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.
15. The system requirements for Vista are ridiculous. Average XP install fresh from disk? 2GB of hard drive space. Average Vista (Ultimate) install? 15GB. What the **** is up with that?!?
16. Microsoft claims that "Vista will fly with Hybrid Hard Drives (HHD)"... so where the hell are these miracle hard drives so that Vista won't suck so bad?
17. The closest to a HHD I've found was the ioDrive, which comes in at the cost of a not-so-cheap $30/GB
18. Fast Search? Apple had that almost two years ago... it's called Spotlight. And it's much more thorough (per first-hand experience) than Vista's "fast search".
19. Speaking of games performance... the only game that was faster in Vista over XP was Supreme Commander... on an overclocked Quad-Core intel. in every other case, Vista performance is still lagging behind what has been achieved with simply using Windows XP.
20. Of all the so-called "DirectX 10 games" out there, very few actually look/perform better in DirectX 10 mode than they already did in DirectX 9 mode on Vista, let alone how they ran on Windows XP.
21. For all the hype about Vista being a "state of the art" OS, why does it still need me to F6 and use a floppy disk to install RAID drivers?
22. For that matter, why no EFI support? EFI is such a superior type of firmware compared to the ancestral BIOS we're still using here. Apple is using EFI for their Macs, and if Vista supported EFI, dual-booting with it on there wouldn't require the need to install/use Boot Camp.

The main problem I have seen that makes ppl not like vista is compatability.

Well, most of them are using a small version or one of those light ones.

As far as that, I paid for it and dont seem to get all the problems that ppl are complaining about,

System usage, I see all these complaints about how much vista hogs resources,,,,(whatever) I have no idea what you ppl are talking bout . I dont even have a super comp and it runs just fine, even in games.

The UI of vista is the best feature, The only thing that I have to complain about is the network setup. The orginization sucks, and like pointed out before I just want regular folders, not 5 different ones to get to what I want.

Overall I like vista, All who dont well its your choice....and you are entitle to it.

well im running xp... modified to look like vista with everything except aero...(even got side panel) and i run on 51mb of ram... if i had vista... lol id never run with 512...

Vista doesn't have any real advantage over XP, yet it costs $100 to upgrade to. Can anyone here honestly say that quick search and the new interface is worth $100?

There is DX10 as well, but so far I don't see how that alone is worth $100.

I'm avoiding vista because of imcompatibilities with my games and to a lesser extent hardware,system hog even if you have a high end rig even worse if you have a mid end system,i'm sure there's a couple things i forgot,but ah well,i'm sticking with XP as long as possible.

people hate vista because their pc is to old to make it run fastbanedohnoes

I'm avoiding vista because of imcompatibilities with my games and to a lesser extent hardware,system hog even if you have a high end rig even worse if you have a mid end system,i'm sure there's a couple things i forgot,but ah well,i'm sticking with XP as long as possible.

Indestructible2

What are these compatability things ppl are refferring to.

I am running things as old as duke, and orig doom.....I dont get it.

Trying running OpenGL games on vista,like codezer0 said,vista + OpenGL = won't work.Indestructible2

people hate vista because their pc is to old to make it run fastbanedohnoes

Even on high end hardware, performance significantly stronger with XP. Also, games that run with 1 gb of ram in XP need 2 gb of ram in vista. Its a resource hog as many people have said.

Also, I'm happy for you if you haven't had any compatibility issues, but many people definately do.

The upside? DX10? Not an upside yet in my opinion. Nice interface? XP interface is fine, and its certainly not worth 100+ dollars to upgrade. But all this has already been said.

If you're happy with vista, good, enjoy it. But there ARE problems, and there ARE reasons that people don't like it. Period.

I hate it because it's a pig. It uses twice as many resources as XP, but offers zero improvement in performance. It isn't compatible with any software or hardware that isn't brand new.

I had to take it off my older computer because it had an All-In-Wonder video card, a Soundblaster Audigy, and a Logitech mouse. It can't capture video orrun TV. It can't playmore than 2 channel stereo. It can't use theextra buttons on the mouse. I couldn't burn DVD's because Nero 6 isn't compatible. Norton Anti-virus required a special download to work. Etc. etc. It's just a hassle for nothing.

Unless you're buying a brand new machine, stick with XP. There is NO reason to "upgrade" tothis cumbersome OS that annoys theshe-yit out of you with constant pop-up confirmation boxes

some times

and what do you guys thnk about vista sp1

I don't hate it. But honestly it's not all that great, and it's not good enough to justify an upgrade yet. However I see no sense in not getting it if you are building a new computer, I really think it's stupid how people build a new comptuer and buy Windows XP with it. WhiteSnake5000

I agree, there still isn't a major reason to upgrade yet, although if you are building a new machine, it doesn't make sense to go with XP over Vista.

With UAC off, I actually like Vista. I know UAC has good intentions, but I work way too much in Windows Explorer, changing system settings, running apps, etc. If the next OS doesn't have an option to disable it, I might be stuck with Vista forever, I seriously HATE all the popup confirmations :) Turned off, Vista is alright.

IMO the best thing about Vista is the 64-bit version though. MS finally got their act together in getting 64-bit on the desktop (XP seemed half-hearted). DX10 is another big advantage, although, we still are waiting for a game where DX10 makes a tremendous difference.

Aero is cool, but believe it or not I actually find the default XP theme easier on the eyes than the default Vista desktop theme. I wouldn't mind making my Vista look like XP, but with aero glass :P

App/game/driver compatibility with Vista has not been a problem for me. Far from perfect, but I like Vista.

I don't hate it. But honestly it's not all that great, and it's not good enough to justify an upgrade yet. However I see no sense in not getting it if you are building a new computer, I really think it's stupid how people build a new comptuer and buy Windows XP with it. WhiteSnake5000

Well, I guess I'm stupid then. I can see no advantage in purchasing a Vista license, when it performs less well than XP. Not that I'm a big XP booster. Had W2K been written to handle multithreading better, I would have been happy to keep running it.

1. (nearly) every peripheral manufacturer out there (for stuff from cameras to printers to scanners, etc.) have all taken a "wait and see" approach, not really making anything for Vista until SP1 is released. If you want to use your existing printer/scanner/etc. and there's no vista driver out there? tough. At the same time, no new devices that are "made for Vista", either.
2. With Windows XP, it was possible to simply get away with purchasing an OEM version and transferring it as you needed to without worrying *too* much about the reactivation process. With Vista, Microsoft can more readily enforce the "you can only install OEM on a single system" rule.
3. You have to buy the retail copy of Vista to get both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, or basically buy two separate OEM copies to have it.
4. You have to buy the Ultimate one to get "the worth it" version.
5. Microsoft used to have a perfectly good, technical reason for why DirectX 10 wouldn't work on Windows XP or anything earlier. In backpedaling to allow nvidia to create a stable driver for the OS, MS removed the one thing that legitimately could have kept DX10 from working on Windows XP, making Vista look even more like we're just being forced into it, whereas XP had some very obvious advantages over 2k and Me when it came out.
6. No OpenGL means over half my favorite games won't work. KotOR, that new ET:QW demo, (possibly) Serious Sam 2, all id games? nope, you're SOL if you use Vista.
7. MS ditches EAX for OpenAL to try and break the Creative monopoly... but even 99% of games that are out or will be coming out will expect EAX for hardware audio acceleration. Ironically, the move to break the Creative monopoly on the market only cements it further when Creative only is able to provide software to translate EAX hardware calls to OpenAL so they could be hardware accelerated, and it only works with an X-Fi sound card. So Audigy users and everyone else who has a different kind of sound card is immediately SOL and has to buy an X-Fi.
8. Too many interface inconsistencies... they have a bright round blue button for "back" in a typical install dialog box to the top left corner, but then a small, text-based "next" button in the bottom right. What the **** sense does that make?
9. Aero is a blatant and very bad ripoff of the Aqua (+ Core graphics) hardware-accelerated GUI in OS X... and it has nothing that could do what Exposé does
10. A typical CD/DVD burned in Windows Vista can be unreadable in any OS other than Vista.
11. **AA wants me to have a 64-bit Vista in order to play HD-DVD/BluRay movies, when the bittedness of the OS has nothing to do with playback of these movies. All they'd really have to do is just recompile the player program to work in XP, etc. and there's nothing about the software that would prevent it from working in even as far back as Windows NT4/9x for crying out loud. So what the **** is their excuse?
12. The few games that "require" Vista (Halo 2 and Shadowrun) are a complete joke. And what would they need them for? "Windows LIVE"...
13. Speaking of Windows LIVE, what PC gamer wants to then have to pay $50/year to be able to do all the online stuff that they've been doing for free for decades?
14. The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.
15. The system requirements for Vista are ridiculous. Average XP install fresh from disk? 2GB of hard drive space. Average Vista (Ultimate) install? 15GB. What the **** is up with that?!?
16. Microsoft claims that "Vista will fly with Hybrid Hard Drives (HHD)"... so where the hell are these miracle hard drives so that Vista won't suck so bad?
17. The closest to a HHD I've found was the ioDrive, which comes in at the cost of a not-so-cheap $30/GB
18. Fast Search? Apple had that almost two years ago... it's called Spotlight. And it's much more thorough (per first-hand experience) than Vista's "fast search".
19. Speaking of games performance... the only game that was faster in Vista over XP was Supreme Commander... on an overclocked Quad-Core intel. in every other case, Vista performance is still lagging behind what has been achieved with simply using Windows XP.
20. Of all the so-called "DirectX 10 games" out there, very few actually look/perform better in DirectX 10 mode than they already did in DirectX 9 mode on Vista, let alone how they ran on Windows XP.
21. For all the hype about Vista being a "state of the art" OS, why does it still need me to F6 and use a floppy disk to install RAID drivers?
22. For that matter, why no EFI support? EFI is such a superior type of firmware compared to the ancestral BIOS we're still using here. Apple is using EFI for their Macs, and if Vista supported EFI, dual-booting with it on there wouldn't require the need to install/use Boot Camp.

I couild go on, but I don't have the time or the patience to keep thinking about how bad Vista is. The sad thing is that if Vista did support EFI natively, I honestly would have bought a copy of Vista and beared with it, if only because EFI is such a superior firmware to BIOS, which must still store ancient (and not being used anymore) legacy code unnecessarily.codezer0

Great work. Let me contribute to your cause

How many of you use anti-spyware? Do you like spyware? If you answered those in the way I would expect you to, you hate Vista. Look at this.

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]I don't hate it. But honestly it's not all that great, and it's not good enough to justify an upgrade yet. However I see no sense in not getting it if you are building a new computer, I really think it's stupid how people build a new comptuer and buy Windows XP with it. Sentinel672002

Well, I guess I'm stupid then. I can see no advantage in purchasing a Vista license, when it performs less well than XP. Not that I'm a big XP booster. Had W2K been written to handle multithreading better, I would have been happy to keep running it.

[QUOTE="codezer0"]

1. (nearly) every peripheral manufacturer out there (for stuff from cameras to printers to scanners, etc.) have all taken a "wait and see" approach, not really making anything for Vista until SP1 is released. If you want to use your existing printer/scanner/etc. and there's no vista driver out there? tough. At the same time, no new devices that are "made for Vista", either.
2. With Windows XP, it was possible to simply get away with purchasing an OEM version and transferring it as you needed to without worrying *too* much about the reactivation process. With Vista, Microsoft can more readily enforce the "you can only install OEM on a single system" rule.
3. You have to buy the retail copy of Vista to get both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, or basically buy two separate OEM copies to have it.
4. You have to buy the Ultimate one to get "the worth it" version.
5. Microsoft used to have a perfectly good, technical reason for why DirectX 10 wouldn't work on Windows XP or anything earlier. In backpedaling to allow nvidia to create a stable driver for the OS, MS removed the one thing that legitimately could have kept DX10 from working on Windows XP, making Vista look even more like we're just being forced into it, whereas XP had some very obvious advantages over 2k and Me when it came out.
6. No OpenGL means over half my favorite games won't work. KotOR, that new ET:QW demo, (possibly) Serious Sam 2, all id games? nope, you're SOL if you use Vista.
7. MS ditches EAX for OpenAL to try and break the Creative monopoly... but even 99% of games that are out or will be coming out will expect EAX for hardware audio acceleration. Ironically, the move to break the Creative monopoly on the market only cements it further when Creative only is able to provide software to translate EAX hardware calls to OpenAL so they could be hardware accelerated, and it only works with an X-Fi sound card. So Audigy users and everyone else who has a different kind of sound card is immediately SOL and has to buy an X-Fi.
8. Too many interface inconsistencies... they have a bright round blue button for "back" in a typical install dialog box to the top left corner, but then a small, text-based "next" button in the bottom right. What the **** sense does that make?
9. Aero is a blatant and very bad ripoff of the Aqua (+ Core graphics) hardware-accelerated GUI in OS X... and it has nothing that could do what Exposé does
10. A typical CD/DVD burned in Windows Vista can be unreadable in any OS other than Vista.
11. **AA wants me to have a 64-bit Vista in order to play HD-DVD/BluRay movies, when the bittedness of the OS has nothing to do with playback of these movies. All they'd really have to do is just recompile the player program to work in XP, etc. and there's nothing about the software that would prevent it from working in even as far back as Windows NT4/9x for crying out loud. So what the **** is their excuse?
12. The few games that "require" Vista (Halo 2 and Shadowrun) are a complete joke. And what would they need them for? "Windows LIVE"...
13. Speaking of Windows LIVE, what PC gamer wants to then have to pay $50/year to be able to do all the online stuff that they've been doing for free for decades?
14. The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.
15. The system requirements for Vista are ridiculous. Average XP install fresh from disk? 2GB of hard drive space. Average Vista (Ultimate) install? 15GB. What the **** is up with that?!?
16. Microsoft claims that "Vista will fly with Hybrid Hard Drives (HHD)"... so where the hell are these miracle hard drives so that Vista won't suck so bad?
17. The closest to a HHD I've found was the ioDrive, which comes in at the cost of a not-so-cheap $30/GB
18. Fast Search? Apple had that almost two years ago... it's called Spotlight. And it's much more thorough (per first-hand experience) than Vista's "fast search".
19. Speaking of games performance... the only game that was faster in Vista over XP was Supreme Commander... on an overclocked Quad-Core intel. in every other case, Vista performance is still lagging behind what has been achieved with simply using Windows XP.
20. Of all the so-called "DirectX 10 games" out there, very few actually look/perform better in DirectX 10 mode than they already did in DirectX 9 mode on Vista, let alone how they ran on Windows XP.
21. For all the hype about Vista being a "state of the art" OS, why does it still need me to F6 and use a floppy disk to install RAID drivers?
22. For that matter, why no EFI support? EFI is such a superior type of firmware compared to the ancestral BIOS we're still using here. Apple is using EFI for their Macs, and if Vista supported EFI, dual-booting with it on there wouldn't require the need to install/use Boot Camp.

I couild go on, but I don't have the time or the patience to keep thinking about how bad Vista is. The sad thing is that if Vista did support EFI natively, I honestly would have bought a copy of Vista and beared with it, if only because EFI is such a superior firmware to BIOS, which must still store ancient (and not being used anymore) legacy code unnecessarily.jed-at-war

Great work. Let me contribute to your cause

How many of you use anti-spyware? Do you like spyware? If you answered those in the way I would expect you to, you hate Vista. Look at this.

let me debunk some of them now.

1. While this may be true, I really haven't went through anything incompatible yet

2. You call them, they reactivate it

3.So? 64 bit isnt even standard

4. HAHAHAH, no way man. Home Premium is good enough

5. Dunno about that, who cares

6. NOW THAT IF FREAKIN BS!!! KOTOR, KOTOR2(I think it needs a minor tweak, don't remember, all I know is that it is installed and working fine) works fine, I'm playing the QW demo right now.

7. I can see that as a problem. Creative does have alchemy, but doesn't work for everything. Good thing I don't got an x-fi card

8.um, what?

9.Aero is sweet. What are you talking about?

10. Um, I burn disks on my vista machine all the time, and give them to my dad who has a xp machine. I had to download drivers on my computer, burn them, and install them on my dad's. Worked

11. Don't know about that

12. And? How is that a con of vista? Makes no sense. The game's fault, not vista.

13.Retard, 50 bucks is only for cross platform play. Its free to play another person on pc

14. So? Would it make vista any better if it didn't do that?

15. Yep, thats a dissapointed, but nothing to freak out about(as I see you are)

16. Don't know much about that

17. ^

18. And? Does that make vista suck worse? You are starting to make no sense

19. Maybe cause xp is like 6 years old, and vista is like 1. Wait until service pack comes out, and expect better performance

20. Cryisis and WIC say hi

21. Don't use raid, so don't know

22. Bios is fine with me.

Yea, you could go on, go on making up more bs crap. That is the worst list of whats bad with vista I have ever seen

Dude that has got to be the worst debunk post ever. Please quote what you are "debunking" and write your response under each statement. Do you expect us to scroll back and forth all the way down your list.

EDIT:
I went back and read some of your post. Nice work. Half of your remarks are a variation of "Don't know about that".

Also, I don't feel like debunking such a puny debunking effort, but try this on. You say you don't care that DX10 could be on windows XP easily. Well I sure as heck do. For the incredibly expensive purchase that an OS is, the fact that DX10 (arguably the only feature on vista that makes it remotely worth getting) could simply be patched into XP is a serious matter. What the hell else is there in vista that is worth hundreds of dollars, aero? crappy performance? You don't care because you already forked out the money to buy vista, but who the hell want's to pay for vista when "DX10 only in vista" is just a marketing gimmick. Now THATS bs.

[QUOTE="Sentinel672002"]

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]I don't hate it. But honestly it's not all that great, and it's not good enough to justify an upgrade yet. However I see no sense in not getting it if you are building a new computer, I really think it's stupid how people build a new comptuer and buy Windows XP with it. WhiteSnake5000

Well, I guess I'm stupid then. I can see no advantage in purchasing a Vista license, when it performs less well than XP. Not that I'm a big XP booster. Had W2K been written to handle multithreading better, I would have been happy to keep running it.

I didn't say Vista was a bad OS, nor did I say XP was a good OS. I said XP outperforms Vista and I couldn't see purchasing a license for an OS that performed less well. Windows (all versions) is mediocre and overpriced. IMO, W2KSP4 was probably the best OS Microsoft has written to date...and it was far from perfect. These days, I'd happily abandon Microsoft entirely, if there was more driver support for Linux. BTW, I squeaked by for six years with W2K, so I don't foresee a need to upgrade my OS in the near future.

I don't really have any major problems with Windows Vista, but I think it's a totally worthless upgrade. The new Networking panel is obnoxious. I think complaints about the re-arranged Control Panel are minor because you simply need to familiarize yourself with how everything is organized. However, that God-awful Network and Sharing Center or whatever it's called is the most annoying piece of middle-man software I've had the displeasure of fiddling with, and that's saying a lot considering how annoyed I was when Windows XP turned out to be Windows 2000 bloated with a bunch of Wizards to do simple things like join a Workgroup. In Windows XP the idiot-friendly Fischer-price interface wasn't too awful since the non-simplified ways of doing such things are still there, just buried beneath the GUI in a heap of menus. However, I have yet to find any alternatives to changing common network settings outside of the Network and Sharing Wizard's broad, sweeping settings that are quite vague on what exactly they're doing on a technical level. What Microsoft seems to think is easier for novice users makes managing your network more difficult for experienced users.

With Windows Vista, I think Microsoft should have stolen more ideas. Flip 3D is not what I would call a worthy response to Mac OS X's Exposé. Windows has to be just about the worst operating system when it comes to desktop management. Almost any Linux distro includes workspaces. Mac OS X has Exposé, the Dock, and Workspaces in Leopard. The only two desktop management features that Microsoft has brought to the table since introducing the taskbar is grouping items of the same application and Flip 3D, which is hardly adequate. In fact, I would go so far as to say the most improved management feature in Vista is actually the new Alt-Tab, which is clickable and shows you the contents of the window, not just the icon.

Microsoft has done nothing but tout their new interface in Vista, but it doesn't do any better a job at helping you manage your running applications than any versions before it, it just looks a little slicker. And by slicker, I mean overdone. Windows Vista's excessive use of transparency reminds me of a bad Web 2.0 design--a coder who designs a website using nothign but glossy buttons and gradients, leading to designs that lack much maturity or any real artistic inspiration. There are contless inconsistencies in the design. Despite the fair amount of inconsistencies in Mac OS X Tiger's interface, it's still more identifiable than Windows Vista, and Leopard is going to improve on that massively.

Microsoft still has a long way to go with Vista before I'm going to consider it a worthy response to what the competition has brough in the years following Windows XP, or even a worthy response to their own XP for that matter.

- The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.

codezer0

And Apple simply copied the idea from Konfabulator (which is now owned by Yahoo).

[QUOTE="codezer0"]

- The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.

G013M

And Apple simply copied the idea from Konfabulator (which is now owned by Yahoo).

Konfabulator was by no means the first to come up with the idea of Widgets. If you want to get technical, Apple had the idea years ago with Desk Accessories.

[QUOTE="jed-at-war"][QUOTE="codezer0"]

1. (nearly) every peripheral manufacturer out there (for stuff from cameras to printers to scanners, etc.) have all taken a "wait and see" approach, not really making anything for Vista until SP1 is released. If you want to use your existing printer/scanner/etc. and there's no vista driver out there? tough. At the same time, no new devices that are "made for Vista", either.
2. With Windows XP, it was possible to simply get away with purchasing an OEM version and transferring it as you needed to without worrying *too* much about the reactivation process. With Vista, Microsoft can more readily enforce the "you can only install OEM on a single system" rule.
3. You have to buy the retail copy of Vista to get both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, or basically buy two separate OEM copies to have it.
4. You have to buy the Ultimate one to get "the worth it" version.
5. Microsoft used to have a perfectly good, technical reason for why DirectX 10 wouldn't work on Windows XP or anything earlier. In backpedaling to allow nvidia to create a stable driver for the OS, MS removed the one thing that legitimately could have kept DX10 from working on Windows XP, making Vista look even more like we're just being forced into it, whereas XP had some very obvious advantages over 2k and Me when it came out.
6. No OpenGL means over half my favorite games won't work. KotOR, that new ET:QW demo, (possibly) Serious Sam 2, all id games? nope, you're SOL if you use Vista.
7. MS ditches EAX for OpenAL to try and break the Creative monopoly... but even 99% of games that are out or will be coming out will expect EAX for hardware audio acceleration. Ironically, the move to break the Creative monopoly on the market only cements it further when Creative only is able to provide software to translate EAX hardware calls to OpenAL so they could be hardware accelerated, and it only works with an X-Fi sound card. So Audigy users and everyone else who has a different kind of sound card is immediately SOL and has to buy an X-Fi.
8. Too many interface inconsistencies... they have a bright round blue button for "back" in a typical install dialog box to the top left corner, but then a small, text-based "next" button in the bottom right. What the **** sense does that make?
9. Aero is a blatant and very bad ripoff of the Aqua (+ Core graphics) hardware-accelerated GUI in OS X... and it has nothing that could do what Exposé does
10. A typical CD/DVD burned in Windows Vista can be unreadable in any OS other than Vista.
11. **AA wants me to have a 64-bit Vista in order to play HD-DVD/BluRay movies, when the bittedness of the OS has nothing to do with playback of these movies. All they'd really have to do is just recompile the player program to work in XP, etc. and there's nothing about the software that would prevent it from working in even as far back as Windows NT4/9x for crying out loud. So what the **** is their excuse?
12. The few games that "require" Vista (Halo 2 and Shadowrun) are a complete joke. And what would they need them for? "Windows LIVE"...
13. Speaking of Windows LIVE, what PC gamer wants to then have to pay $50/year to be able to do all the online stuff that they've been doing for free for decades?
14. The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.
15. The system requirements for Vista are ridiculous. Average XP install fresh from disk? 2GB of hard drive space. Average Vista (Ultimate) install? 15GB. What the **** is up with that?!?
16. Microsoft claims that "Vista will fly with Hybrid Hard Drives (HHD)"... so where the hell are these miracle hard drives so that Vista won't suck so bad?
17. The closest to a HHD I've found was the ioDrive, which comes in at the cost of a not-so-cheap $30/GB
18. Fast Search? Apple had that almost two years ago... it's called Spotlight. And it's much more thorough (per first-hand experience) than Vista's "fast search".
19. Speaking of games performance... the only game that was faster in Vista over XP was Supreme Commander... on an overclocked Quad-Core intel. in every other case, Vista performance is still lagging behind what has been achieved with simply using Windows XP.
20. Of all the so-called "DirectX 10 games" out there, very few actually look/perform better in DirectX 10 mode than they already did in DirectX 9 mode on Vista, let alone how they ran on Windows XP.
21. For all the hype about Vista being a "state of the art" OS, why does it still need me to F6 and use a floppy disk to install RAID drivers?
22. For that matter, why no EFI support? EFI is such a superior type of firmware compared to the ancestral BIOS we're still using here. Apple is using EFI for their Macs, and if Vista supported EFI, dual-booting with it on there wouldn't require the need to install/use Boot Camp.

I couild go on, but I don't have the time or the patience to keep thinking about how bad Vista is. The sad thing is that if Vista did support EFI natively, I honestly would have bought a copy of Vista and beared with it, if only because EFI is such a superior firmware to BIOS, which must still store ancient (and not being used anymore) legacy code unnecessarily.lettuceman44

Great work. Let me contribute to your cause

How many of you use anti-spyware? Do you like spyware? If you answered those in the way I would expect you to, you hate Vista. Look at this.

let me debunk some of them now.

1. While this may be true, I really haven't went through anything incompatible yet

2. You call them, they reactivate it

3.So? 64 bit isnt even standard

4. HAHAHAH, no way man. Home Premium is good enough

5. Dunno about that, who cares

6. NOW THAT IF FREAKIN BS!!! KOTOR, KOTOR2(I think it needs a minor tweak, don't remember, all I know is that it is installed and working fine) works fine, I'm playing the QW demo right now.

7. I can see that as a problem. Creative does have alchemy, but doesn't work for everything. Good thing I don't got an x-fi card

8.um, what?

9.Aero is sweet. What are you talking about?

10. Um, I burn disks on my vista machine all the time, and give them to my dad who has a xp machine. I had to download drivers on my computer, burn them, and install them on my dad's. Worked

11. Don't know about that

12. And? How is that a con of vista? Makes no sense. The game's fault, not vista.

13.Retard, 50 bucks is only for cross platform play. Its free to play another person on pc

14. So? Would it make vista any better if it didn't do that?

15. Yep, thats a dissapointed, but nothing to freak out about(as I see you are)

16. Don't know much about that

17. ^

18. And? Does that make vista suck worse? You are starting to make no sense

19. Maybe cause xp is like 6 years old, and vista is like 1. Wait until service pack comes out, and expect better performance

20. Cryisis and WIC say hi

21. Don't use raid, so don't know

22. Bios is fine with me.

Yea, you could go on, go on making up more bs crap. That is the worst list of whats bad with vista I have ever seen

What the hell kind of "debunking" is "Don't know much about that"?

a miserable failed attempt at debunkinglettuceman44

If you want all that Vista has to offer, you have to buy Ultimate. And if you want to be able to run 64-bit in the future, because Microsoft is looking to help migrate people into 64-bit computing, and if you ever want to be able to run with more than 4GB of system RAM, you need the retail copy. codezer0

Good post actually, even though I don't share quite the same hatred of Vista. Well, yes the UAC ;)

Just to clarify the quote above, codezer0 probably knows this, you do not need the retail copy of Vista to run more than 4GB of RAM.

I have Vista Ultimate 64-bit OEM, and there's no doubt I can run more than 4GB of RAM. I'm running 4GB right now, all 4 are available and correctly reported by the OS (address space within/below that 4GB is NOT being allocated for memory-mapped devices as would be done in 32-bit which results in "lost" memory). OEM works exactly the same as retail, I believe what is being said is that if you want both 32-bit and 64-bit versions included, you need the retail version.

The problem with OEM is that if you say upgrade the motherboard, that's it. you gotta buy a new copy. And with Vista, MS is able to enforce that a lot more thoroughly than before.codezer0

True dat, I hear you :) I never had a problem upgrading my motherboard with XP OEM, but Vista remains to be seen, MS may enforce that more strictly.

However, since OEM is roughly half the price of retail, if that does happen, I can pick up a 2nd copy of Vista OEM and now have 2 fully operational operating systems, slap the old OS and some components in another box, etc for a second rig (if you need one, tbh I already have enough machines).

Upgrade a 3rd time? Now we've exceeded the cost of just going retail ;) How often you upgrade is definitely something to consider when looking at OEM vs. retail.

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"][QUOTE="jed-at-war"][QUOTE="codezer0"]

1. (nearly) every peripheral manufacturer out there (for stuff from cameras to printers to scanners, etc.) have all taken a "wait and see" approach, not really making anything for Vista until SP1 is released. If you want to use your existing printer/scanner/etc. and there's no vista driver out there? tough. At the same time, no new devices that are "made for Vista", either.
2. With Windows XP, it was possible to simply get away with purchasing an OEM version and transferring it as you needed to without worrying *too* much about the reactivation process. With Vista, Microsoft can more readily enforce the "you can only install OEM on a single system" rule.
3. You have to buy the retail copy of Vista to get both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, or basically buy two separate OEM copies to have it.
4. You have to buy the Ultimate one to get "the worth it" version.
5. Microsoft used to have a perfectly good, technical reason for why DirectX 10 wouldn't work on Windows XP or anything earlier. In backpedaling to allow nvidia to create a stable driver for the OS, MS removed the one thing that legitimately could have kept DX10 from working on Windows XP, making Vista look even more like we're just being forced into it, whereas XP had some very obvious advantages over 2k and Me when it came out.
6. No OpenGL means over half my favorite games won't work. KotOR, that new ET:QW demo, (possibly) Serious Sam 2, all id games? nope, you're SOL if you use Vista.
7. MS ditches EAX for OpenAL to try and break the Creative monopoly... but even 99% of games that are out or will be coming out will expect EAX for hardware audio acceleration. Ironically, the move to break the Creative monopoly on the market only cements it further when Creative only is able to provide software to translate EAX hardware calls to OpenAL so they could be hardware accelerated, and it only works with an X-Fi sound card. So Audigy users and everyone else who has a different kind of sound card is immediately SOL and has to buy an X-Fi.
8. Too many interface inconsistencies... they have a bright round blue button for "back" in a typical install dialog box to the top left corner, but then a small, text-based "next" button in the bottom right. What the **** sense does that make?
9. Aero is a blatant and very bad ripoff of the Aqua (+ Core graphics) hardware-accelerated GUI in OS X... and it has nothing that could do what Exposé does
10. A typical CD/DVD burned in Windows Vista can be unreadable in any OS other than Vista.
11. **AA wants me to have a 64-bit Vista in order to play HD-DVD/BluRay movies, when the bittedness of the OS has nothing to do with playback of these movies. All they'd really have to do is just recompile the player program to work in XP, etc. and there's nothing about the software that would prevent it from working in even as far back as Windows NT4/9x for crying out loud. So what the **** is their excuse?
12. The few games that "require" Vista (Halo 2 and Shadowrun) are a complete joke. And what would they need them for? "Windows LIVE"...
13. Speaking of Windows LIVE, what PC gamer wants to then have to pay $50/year to be able to do all the online stuff that they've been doing for free for decades?
14. The gadgets are simply OS X widgets... which Apple has been doing three years prior to Vista being released.
15. The system requirements for Vista are ridiculous. Average XP install fresh from disk? 2GB of hard drive space. Average Vista (Ultimate) install? 15GB. What the **** is up with that?!?
16. Microsoft claims that "Vista will fly with Hybrid Hard Drives (HHD)"... so where the hell are these miracle hard drives so that Vista won't suck so bad?
17. The closest to a HHD I've found was the ioDrive, which comes in at the cost of a not-so-cheap $30/GB
18. Fast Search? Apple had that almost two years ago... it's called Spotlight. And it's much more thorough (per first-hand experience) than Vista's "fast search".
19. Speaking of games performance... the only game that was faster in Vista over XP was Supreme Commander... on an overclocked Quad-Core intel. in every other case, Vista performance is still lagging behind what has been achieved with simply using Windows XP.
20. Of all the so-called "DirectX 10 games" out there, very few actually look/perform better in DirectX 10 mode than they already did in DirectX 9 mode on Vista, let alone how they ran on Windows XP.
21. For all the hype about Vista being a "state of the art" OS, why does it still need me to F6 and use a floppy disk to install RAID drivers?
22. For that matter, why no EFI support? EFI is such a superior type of firmware compared to the ancestral BIOS we're still using here. Apple is using EFI for their Macs, and if Vista supported EFI, dual-booting with it on there wouldn't require the need to install/use Boot Camp.

I couild go on, but I don't have the time or the patience to keep thinking about how bad Vista is. The sad thing is that if Vista did support EFI natively, I honestly would have bought a copy of Vista and beared with it, if only because EFI is such a superior firmware to BIOS, which must still store ancient (and not being used anymore) legacy code unnecessarily.cricketboy2238

Great work. Let me contribute to your cause

How many of you use anti-spyware? Do you like spyware? If you answered those in the way I would expect you to, you hate Vista. Look at this.

let me debunk some of them now.

1. While this may be true, I really haven't went through anything incompatible yet

2. You call them, they reactivate it

3.So? 64 bit isnt even standard

4. HAHAHAH, no way man. Home Premium is good enough

5. Dunno about that, who cares

6. NOW THAT IF FREAKIN BS!!! KOTOR, KOTOR2(I think it needs a minor tweak, don't remember, all I know is that it is installed and working fine) works fine, I'm playing the QW demo right now.

7. I can see that as a problem. Creative does have alchemy, but doesn't work for everything. Good thing I don't got an x-fi card

8.um, what?

9.Aero is sweet. What are you talking about?

10. Um, I burn disks on my vista machine all the time, and give them to my dad who has a xp machine. I had to download drivers on my computer, burn them, and install them on my dad's. Worked

11. Don't know about that

12. And? How is that a con of vista? Makes no sense. The game's fault, not vista.

13.Retard, 50 bucks is only for cross platform play. Its free to play another person on pc

14. So? Would it make vista any better if it didn't do that?

15. Yep, thats a dissapointed, but nothing to freak out about(as I see you are)

16. Don't know much about that

17. ^

18. And? Does that make vista suck worse? You are starting to make no sense

19. Maybe cause xp is like 6 years old, and vista is like 1. Wait until service pack comes out, and expect better performance

20. Cryisis and WIC say hi

21. Don't use raid, so don't know

22. Bios is fine with me.

Yea, you could go on, go on making up more bs crap. That is the worst list of whats bad with vista I have ever seen

What the hell kind of "debunking" is "Don't know much about that"?

haha. wow. First of all, I said let me debunk SOME, notice the key word there SOME! Second, at least I didn't make up crap about stuff I didn't know about, and third I said that like 3 times. Wow, now this is what I call a fanboy
lettuceman44

Just for poops and giggles, can you cite where it was that I started making things up?