why don't more people like the SWAT series?

I will start this off by saying that SWAT 4 / The Stetchkov Syndicate is not perfect. Infact it is missing a lot of key elements from SWAT 3, like the ability to choose team members from a pool of officers, the ability to carry two types of ammo and instruct your team to switch between them when you feel necessary, and the ability to go stealth and use silencers.

So a lot of that makes SWAT 3 actually a better game but it is so dated it can't really be compared. The thing is SWAT 4 is still really good. And I find it so addictive. Even if I get a good score on a level I find myself wanting the replay it with different weapons, entry points, etc. And it is still new every time because all the bad guys, good guys you need to rescue, and items you might need to recover or disarm spawn at a random location every time you play it! You never get the exact same game twice! I love to mix my team up with both less-than-lethal and lethal to try to get the prefect balance so you get the best score.

The reason I'm writing this is because currently I have Bioshock, The Orange Box, WiC, and the Crysis demo and I actually find SWAT 4 more entertaining and addictive than any of them!

They should be putting all the hardcore DX10 graphics etc into a SWAT 5 and not all these other games as I think the SWAT series and game design is far more addictive, enjoyable and has way, way more replay ability than any of them.

It's a shame more people are not fans of these games.

Crysis > Swat.

Where'd you think the money is going to go?

Crysis > Swat.

Where'd you think the money is going to go?

Sliverwarrior

Crysis = no controllable team members and as far as I know does not have random spawning objectives within the "levels". So as great and advanced as it might be in some areas it still is less advanced in others.

[QUOTE="Sliverwarrior"]

Crysis > Swat.

Where'd you think the money is going to go?

Store24

Crysis = no controllable team members and as far as I know does not have random spawning objectives within the "levels". So as great and advanced as it might be in some areas it still is less advanced in others.

yea...that was a pretty dumb comparison. it's not that you can't compare, it's just that the OP obviously want something Crysis couldn't offer.

personally, i don't enjoy Swat 4 very much. i finished the SP campaign once, and never tried the multiplayer mode ( borrowed it from my generous friend, again. thanks Wayne ) what i didn't like about it was theunpolished feeling over the entire game. the mechanics of the game didn't seem to be well executed, with randomly placed mobs of inconsistent AI, generic gunplay and the overall weary pace ( just because it's SWAT it doesn't mean it has to be slow. real SWAT missions are often tackled in a flash ). i hope they fix these problems in S5, if there ever will be one.

[QUOTE="Store24"][QUOTE="Sliverwarrior"]

Crysis > Swat.

Where'd you think the money is going to go?

Jinroh_basic

Crysis = no controllable team members and as far as I know does not have random spawning objectives within the "levels". So as great and advanced as it might be in some areas it still is less advanced in others.

yea...that was a pretty dumb comparison. it's not that you can't compare, it's just that the OP obviously want something Crysis couldn't offer.

personally, i don't enjoy Swat 4 very much. i finished the SP campaign once, and never tried the multiplayer mode ( borrowed it from my generous friend, again. thanks Wayne ) what i didn't like about it was theunpolished feeling over the entire game. the mechanics of the game didn't seem to be well executed, with randomly placed mobs of inconsistent AI, generic gunplay and the overall weary pace ( just because it's SWAT it doesn't mean it has to be slow. real SWAT missions are often tackled in a flash ). i hope they fix these problems in S5, if there ever will be one.

I don't know what you mean about a slow pace as many missions involve a ticking clock in which you have to neutralize the bad guys, secure the good guys, and defuse a bomb before the clock runs out!!

I find it VERY faced paced if you play if right. Again it's easy to blow through SWAT with low scores. But try replaying it and get an 80+ on every level! I have never gotten a perfect 100! I think my best score on any level has been a 94!

Yeah it's not polished and the AI could be way better because these games have never had the big budgets. That's why I would love to see a SWAT 5 with the budget of an Orange Box or a Bioshock. And the AI of FEAR.

yea, the missions themselves are very great, with nice maps andchallenging objectives. but it's the gameplay that falls short. the feeling of clumsiness is everywhere -- when you switch your weapon, lob a grenade, or simply load a clip, it gives a feeling that everything is slowed down to the extreme just for the sake of tactical presentation.

yea, the missions themselves are very great, with nice maps andchallenging objectives. but it's the gameplay that falls short. the feeling of clumsiness is everywhere -- when you switch your weapon, lob a grenade, or simply load a clip, it gives a feeling that everything is slowed down to the extreme just for the sake of tactical presentation.

Jinroh_basic

I disagree! It sounds to me like you want SWAT to play like an indoors Counter Strike, and that's not what it is nor what it's meant to be.

One of the reasons I personally love the SWAT series, especially SWAT 4, is the slow deliberate pace the game sets. Even in multiplayer and co-op, everything is set to a very tactical and patient pace. You're not just running into rooms; you're preping the squad for entry, checking under the door with a camera then testing the lock and THEN you choose how you're even going to enter the room depending on how those first three steps went. Burst into a room rambo style and you're bound to either die or make a major mistake like killing a hostage, and that's a game ender right there! Besides you're not allowed to just kill suspects, this is the police force, not the army.

Most games these days are so 'run & gun', even the supposedly tactical and realistic games. SWAT is one of the few series that turns the speed down a little and lets ya think. Makes every move, every bullet count! It's great! The the Co-op gameplay is especially grand, hell, I still play online occasionally and try to set up games with friends.

yea, the missions themselves are very great, with nice maps andchallenging objectives. but it's the gameplay that falls short. the feeling of clumsiness is everywhere -- when you switch your weapon, lob a grenade, or simply load a clip, it gives a feeling that everything is slowed down to the extreme just for the sake of tactical presentation.

Jinroh_basic

I'm not disagreeing. There certainly are some awkward moments in the game where you need to make some fast changes and the bad guys blow you away with one shot. But being able to be killed with one shot is what makes the game great.

And can give a counter example of the Half Life series. How many times have you run out of ammo and been stuck scrolling through all your weapons with the mouse wheel? Going through a list of like 12 weapons to find the one you want! And why the hell do the weapons out of ammo still take a slot when you are scrolling??

Sure I could probably assign individual keys to make it easier as im sure the hardcore players do but you see my point. Even an ultra-high budget / polished game like the HL2 series is not perfect.

Not to mention how is it realistic that you can carry like 12 weapons that include a crowbar and a rocket launcher? LOL At least the suit "explains" being able to take 15 shots from guns and future weapons. What explains how you are able to carry all that gear? Not just 12 guns or so including a rocket launcher but 3 or 4 rockets? LOL

SWAT series is much more realistic and I think the slowness/chunkiness is more realistic than less. I mean how fast do you think you can change a clip in a gun in real life under pressure?

[QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"]

yea, the missions themselves are very great, with nice maps andchallenging objectives. but it's the gameplay that falls short. the feeling of clumsiness is everywhere -- when you switch your weapon, lob a grenade, or simply load a clip, it gives a feeling that everything is slowed down to the extreme just for the sake of tactical presentation.

the_mad_madman

I disagree! It sounds to me like you want SWAT to play like an indoors Counter Strike, and that's not what it is nor what it's meant to be.

One of the reasons I personally love the SWAT series, especially SWAT 4, is the slow deliberate pace the game sets. Even in multiplayer and co-op, everything is set to a very tactical and patient pace. You're not just running into rooms; you're preping the squad for entry, checking under the door with a camera then testing the lock and THEN you choose how you're even going to enter the room depending on how those first three steps went. Burst into a room rambo style and you're bound to either die or make a major mistake like killing a hostage, and that's a game ender right there! Besides you're not allowed to just kill suspects, this is the police force, not the army.

Most games these days are so 'run & gun', even the supposedly tactical and realistic games. SWAT is one of the few series that turns the speed down a little and lets ya think. Makes every move, every bullet count! It's great! The the Co-op gameplay is especially grand, hell, I still play online occasionally and try to set up games with friends.

EXACTLY!!

How many times in that game have you rushed and not mirrored the door and paid for it either in the form of being killed or having to kill the bad guy instead of choosing to gas, flash, or bang the room and get the bad guy alive!!

That's what I mean about replay ability. I do that and have to shoot the guy and get a lower score... I immediately want to replay the level take more time and try to get the bad guy to comply. But of course he is not in the same spot so it's a whole new game!

Fantastic!

Just strategically using the door wedge alone can drastically change the way a level plays. That is the one thing that does stay the same is the level layout. That's what so cool and there are some very good level designs where a strategically placed wedge makes all the difference.

Crysis > Swat.

Where'd you think the money is going to go?

Sliverwarrior

Why are you comparing them?

The more realistic games tend to have smaller fanbases.

Gear of War is more popular than SWAT. But SWAT is a more accurate FPS experience.

Forza 2 is more popular than GTR2. But GTR2 is a hardcore sim-racer.

A lot of gamers don't like that style of gaming since it requires more patience and a completely different skill set.

coz you cannot shoot at anything that moves, and you must think what you do

SWAT 4 is the most intense and demanding shooter I've played yet. No other FPS provides a challenge akin to that in SWAT 4. I *love* the unpredictable nature of SWAT. Sure if you run & gun (which the game does ALLOW you to do) and just shoot all the bad guys, it becomes a run of the mill shooter. However if you try and be the best at the game - which is to not fire a single bullet and rely entirely on compliance and pacification, it becomes a whole different ball game.

No other game has captured the "panic" of when something happens unexpected. In most games, a suspect running off isn't a big deal. In SWAT 4, it's a matter of screaming to the team-mates "Stop him!. In multiplayer (especially co-op), this is great. Getting ambushed when you're in close quarters with your team generates chaos that is genuinely freightening.

Games like SWAT aren't going to be as popular as the more mindless, run and gun shooters because they have a bit more of a learning curve to master, require some thought and planning before taking action and require teamwork in multiplayer. I enjoyed SWAT 4 immensely prior to the release of the 1.2 patch which stuck dynamic ads in the multiplayer portion of the game. I found it bloody invasive to have a bunch of ads for the latest episode of Firefly plastered all over the game world. (I even saw an ad in the toilet bowl in the convenience store once).

Anyway, sad as it is, I doubt you'll be seeing any tactical shooters that offer depth and realism coming out of the big publishers in N. America anymore. The trend has been to dumb thigns down for the instant action crowd and simplify control schemes so the game's playable on console controllers.

European developers are taking up the slack though so be sure to check out specialist websites like www.wargamer.com or www.simHQ.com to learn about titles that might fly under the radar of mainstream sites like gamespot.

I will start this off by saying that SWAT 4 / The Stetchkov Syndicate is not perfect. Infact it is missing a lot of key elements from SWAT 3, like the ability to choose team members from a pool of officers, the ability to carry two types of ammo and instruct your team to switch between them when you feel necessary, and the ability to go stealth and use silencers.

So a lot of that makes SWAT 3 actually a better game but it is so dated it can't really be compared. The thing is SWAT 4 is still really good. And I find it so addictive. Even if I get a good score on a level I find myself wanting the replay it with different weapons, entry points, etc. And it is still new every time because all the bad guys, good guys you need to rescue, and items you might need to recover or disarm spawn at a random location every time you play it! You never get the exact same game twice! I love to mix my team up with both less-than-lethal and lethal to try to get the prefect balance so you get the best score.

The reason I'm writing this is because currently I have Bioshock, The Orange Box, WiC, and the Crysis demo and I actually find SWAT 4 more entertaining and addictive than any of them!

They should be putting all the hardcore DX10 graphics etc into a SWAT 5 and not all these other games as I think the SWAT series and game design is far more addictive, enjoyable and has way, way more replay ability than any of them.

It's a shame more people are not fans of these games.

Store24

Last month I bought SWAT 4 and can't believe how fun the game is. I agree with the above posters--especially the "bar code avatar" one.

The more realistic games tend to have smaller fanbases.

Gear of War is more popular than SWAT. But SWAT is a more accurate FPS experience.

Forza 2 is more popular than GTR2. But GTR2 is a hardcore sim-racer.

A lot of gamers don't like that style of gaming since it requires more patience and a completely different skill set.

HupHupOranje

Sad but true

The only thing that bothers me is that the suspects are ridiculously fast and precise when they spot you. They always go for the headshot and unless you get them first, you're dead in an instant. I once had my entire squad wiped out by a single SOB within 3 seconds.

Anyway, has anyone heard anything about a sequel?

The only reason a lot of people play games is to escape their reality.Buffalo_Soulja

I don't think we have many SWAT officers amongst us here on the GS forums... I could be wrong however!

[QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]The only reason a lot of people play games is to escape their reality.kweeky

I don't think we have many SWAT officers amongst us here on the GS forums... I could be wrong however!

In related news, SWAT 3 and 4 are fully endorsed by the real-life SWAT, and they helped in the development. Hence the ultra-realism.

Anyway, has anyone heard anything about a sequel?

RazorGR

I think the only thing they're working on is an isometric games similar to SWAT 2. It won't be for PC though.

Anyway, the site for SWAT 3 and SWAT 4 news, resources and mods is 10-David.

SWAT is indeed a very cool singleplayer game and the replay value is huge. Bioshock and Crysis are also very cool games; with other qualities.

Right now I still prefer playing Counter-Strike (& Source) and I really wanna have Half-Life: Episode 2, cause Half Life has one of the best plots ever. Maybe that's where Swat 4 lags a bit.

They're amazing games, and very addictive. Pretty much the only complaints I have with Swat 4 and its expansion is that it can be really annoying sometimes when you only have one hostage left to save and you have to run around the entire damn level looking for him. For whatever reason that happens a lot to me, and it's always just one pos hostage basically hiding in some corner that I hadn't even seen. Zeliard9

That happnes to me sometimes too

[QUOTE="MrUnSavory1"]For anyone who isnot aware there is a new Swat. Check this out http://www.swatpsp.com/us/[/QUOTE]

Its only for PSP.