Why these ME3 protests need to stop - they're dragging others through the mud

http://kotaku.com/5895898/childs-play-doesnt-appreciate-being-used-to-retake-mass-effect

I am sure that people might have already read this article, it is a few days old, but for those who haven't take a look.

This charity that Retake Mass Effect latched itself onto has had to deal with people who thought they were sponsors but most significantlypeople asking for refunds because they thought that their money would buy them an ending.

So much for the people who said 'Oh but its helping sick kids'

Self-entitlement reigns again here. How bad does it look for this charity, who never asked for this, to have to give donations back?

This whole thing is sickening. This is BEFORE the cupcakes.

People who thought they were donating for a new ending are utter imbeciles. Even worse that they demand money back from a charity.

I'd rather give money to charity than buy ME3 in the first place.

This whole ME3 ending debacle (I haven't finished it yet myself) is an embarrassment. I feel ashamed as a PC gamer that some of us are like spoiled brats.FelipeInside

you should feel lucky then :P

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This whole ME3 ending debacle (I haven't finished it yet myself) is an embarrassment. I feel ashamed as a PC gamer that some of us are like spoiled brats.wis3boi

you should feel lucky then :P

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This whole ME3 ending debacle (I haven't finished it yet myself) is an embarrassment. I feel ashamed as a PC gamer that some of us are like spoiled brats.FelipeInside

you should feel lucky then :P

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This whole ME3 ending debacle (I haven't finished it yet myself) is an embarrassment. I feel ashamed as a PC gamer that some of us are like spoiled brats.FelipeInside

you should feel lucky then :P

Not sure if I'd take a beautiful road trip that ends in a car crash.

Experiences change dramatically when new information emerges. Bad endings can retroactively ruin the experience and they will also spoil any future experience of the same content.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

you should feel lucky then :P

Baranga

Not sure if I'd take a beautiful road trip that ends in a car crash.

Experiences change dramatically when new information emerges. Bad endings can retroactively ruin the experience and they will also spoil any future experience of the same content.

Wait, we aren't getting an ending now? That's it I'm off to get a refund.

I didn't read the rest of the thread, was just finishing up my 4th playthrough of Mass Effect 3.

Bioware SUX guys!!!!

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Yeah I am kind of afraid now to finish it....hahhahahahaha. In all seriousness, I've been let down with game endings before. I am more about the journey than the destination anyway.FelipeInside

Not sure if I'd take a beautiful road trip that ends in a car crash.

Experiences change dramatically when new information emerges. Bad endings can retroactively ruin the experience and they will also spoil any future experience of the same content.

I can count on one hand the number of "good" endings in games. While a great story is nice, I usually just play a game because it's fun. Most stories in most games are pretty subpar IMO. For those people (especially in the article) that get that bent out of shape over an ending to a video game need to start reading books or watching movies if they really want a story (even though there are plenty of bad stories in those too).

anyway i hope they don't give back the money, it was stated clearly the money would go to help kids, its their own damn fault for not reading

I don't think it was a bad idea. They just went about it totally wrong. The Retake Mass Effect organizers did not make it very clear where the money was going. Many players thought it was an initiative to pay for a new ending. No, it never was. It was always for charity. The idea was that people who already bought the game could get a refund or trade it in, then donate that money to charity. Or for people that hadn't bought the game yet, they could just donate straight to charity. It was never going to be for a new ending, but the Retake Mass Effect organizers did a bad job explaining that.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This new generation wants everything YESTERDAY and all packaged up in a nice ribbon exactly the way they want it. /end of rantcharmingcharlie

I'm not generalizing, but you of all people (a gamer for 20 years) can agree that the new "breed" of younger gamers act this way.

Now I can't really keep on discussing the ending of ME3, since I have yet to finish it, but endings are endings, people are not always gonna like them.

[QUOTE="charmingcharlie"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This new generation wants everything YESTERDAY and all packaged up in a nice ribbon exactly the way they want it. /end of rantFelipeInside

I'm not generalizing, but you of all people (a gamer for 20 years) can agree that the new "breed" of younger gamers act this way.

Now I can't really keep on discussing the ending of ME3, since I have yet to finish it, but endings are endings, people are not always gonna like them.

I'm not generalizing, but you of all people (a gamer for 20 years) can agree that the new "breed" of younger gamers act this way.

Now I can't really keep on discussing the ending of ME3, since I have yet to finish it, but endings are endings, people are not always gonna like them.

FelipeInside

Yes you are generalising, I am not a new "breed" gamer I am an old time gamer and if I owned Mass Effect 3 I would be agreeing with the feelings of those that do not like the endings. Now from what I have seen the ME fans cannot catch a break no matter what they do. They started criticising the end and got called a whole manner of names and accused of being nothing but negative entitled whiners. So then they tried to make their campaign a little bit more positive by setting up donations and again they got criticised for that as well so they ended it. Now they have gone for a tongue in the cheek approach by sending 400 cupcakes to Bioware in a form that is fitting of the Mass Effect 3 ending and guess what ? yep that is right they are being criticised again by the media.

These guys have a legitimate complaint about a product they bought and they want it sorted out, but it seems these days as if that is "unacceptable" the attitude seems to be "behave like good little customers and be happy for what you get".

Now as you said "endings are endings" but the "ending" Bioware has produced can hardly be called an ending. They produced an ending that 90% of their customer base does not like (that is some damn achievement right there). There are clear problems with this ending that need to be fixed and ME fans are trying to find "creative" ways of expressing this. Naturally they of course should all be hanged at the gallows though, those pesky entitled whining gamers :roll:

Why do people care so much that Mass Effect 3 has a bad ending? So many other games have bad endings, and they don't get much attention. There are so many bad games in general, but I don't see public outcries for them. Where is the money-making effort to turn Jagged Alliance: Back in Action into a good game? I could probably come up with dozens of examples if pressed. Mass Effect 3 disappointed, get over it, people. It wasn't the first game to do so, and it certainly won't be the last.

Bioware is fallible. No, the world is not ending.

Why do people care so much that Mass Effect 3 has a bad ending? So many other games have bad endings, and they don't get much attention. There are so many bad games in general, but I don't see public outcries for them. Where is the money-making effort to turn Jagged Alliance: Back in Action into a good game? I could probably come up with dozens of examples if pressed. Mass Effect 3 disappointed, get over it, people. It wasn't the first game to do so, and it certainly won't be the last.

Bioware is fallible. No, the world is not ending.

Falconoffury

[QUOTE="Falconoffury"]

Why do people care so much that Mass Effect 3 has a bad ending? So many other games have bad endings, and they don't get much attention. There are so many bad games in general, but I don't see public outcries for them. Where is the money-making effort to turn Jagged Alliance: Back in Action into a good game? I could probably come up with dozens of examples if pressed. Mass Effect 3 disappointed, get over it, people. It wasn't the first game to do so, and it certainly won't be the last.

Bioware is fallible. No, the world is not ending.

FelipeInside

It all comes down to how you feel about the franchise, if you merely "enjoy" the franchise on the same level as any other game then the ending probably won't bug you all that much. It will still come across as a lame, cobbled together ending but you probably won't give it much thought after playing the game. However a lot of people really invested themselves in this series and that leads to strong views about how Bioware totally and utterly failed with regards to wrapping the ME franchise up.

Let me put it another way, I enjoyed Fallout 3 and I wasn't all that bothered about the ending (I thought it was crap but didn't really care). Now I wasn't going to criticise Bethseda all that much about the ending to Fallout 3 because whilst I wasn't a fan of the ending I wasn't "invested" enough in the game to give a crap. However there were those that were "invested" in the game and they did complain and Fallout 3's ending was changed (for the better personally).

Now with Mass Effect a series I am "invested" in and have poured hundreds of hours into 1 and 2 ordinarily I would care about the ending of ME 3 because it is an awful ending and does not do the series justice. The ending fails on every level we are not talking about 1 plot hole here we are talking about huge plot chasms, characters behaving completely contrary to their established characters, nonsensical motive gibberish and ideas that crap all over established lore from the last 2 games. The Mass Effect 3 ending fails in nearly every way possible.

All the fans that do not like the ending are doing is finding a creative way to express to Bioware that they are unhappy with the ending and want Bioware to look at it again. But like I said it doesn't matter how they try to get their point across they get criticised for it because they aren't behaving like "good little consumers".

I have played hundreds of games in my life, and probably beat over half that could be beaten. Never was I so disappointed with an ending that I felt the need to start some kind of petition, or even sign a petition that it be changed, or donate money to have it changed. I haven't gotten to the Mass Effect series yet, myself, but I am looking forward to seeing the reasons for all this fuss.

Yes, how dare fans want closure and a great ending to a series that prides itself on excellent writing, story and characters! And how dare they want their choices to matter in a game that revolves around player choice!

The nerve of them! Speaking up like "consumer scum!" Real fans should bend over and take anything a corporation throws at them and praise it like the second coming of Christ!

Haven't played though ME1, 2 or 3. Still playing 1.6, Source, CoD4 and DOTA2 though..

Yet some uber nerd rage gets this kind of a response from BioWare. :|

http://kotaku.com/5895898/childs-play-doesnt-appreciate-being-used-to-retake-mass-effect

I am sure that people might have already read this article, it is a few days old, but for those who haven't take a look.

This charity that Retake Mass Effect latched itself onto has had to deal with people who thought they were sponsors but most significantlypeople asking for refunds because they thought that their money would buy them an ending.

So much for the people who said 'Oh but its helping sick kids'

Self-entitlement reigns again here. How bad does it look for this charity, who never asked for this, to have to give donations back?

This whole thing is sickening. This is BEFORE the cupcakes.

biggest_loser

I disagree with you when it comes to ME3 and the whole ending mess. While I think there's far too much entitlement and poor behavior among gamers nowadays, I actually think that the ME3 situation has (for the most part) been different.

While I'm 100% sure that there's been plenty of 'fans' that's been behaving poorly, the organized initiatives have (in my opinion) been completely different. I think it's completely fair for consumers to ask a company for something. Whether it's requesting improvements in services, asking for different products, reduced prices or a different ending to a computer game, I believe consumers should be able to request these things. I also believe that it's up to the company to decide how to address those requests.

The reason why I think this situation has been handled uncommonly well by a lot of the fans is because it haven't been primarily hostile or negative. I think the charity collection was a perfect example. Instead of simply making angry posts, they made a charity drive. Lately, instead of raging at BioWare, they've sent BioWare a bunch of cupcakes. Regarding the Kotaku article, if you read the statements made by the actual charity they didn't have a problem with the 'Retake Mass Effect fans starting the collection when it started, they even made public statements explaining that donations was given directly to the charity and that donations was not 'held hostage'. They didn't mind keeping the collection running for a week or two, knowing what the situation was. After a couple of weeks they simply decided that going forward they'd change the rules to make sure that there was no confusion. As for people asking for money back, they are obviously fools who didn't bother spending 2 minutes looking at where they were sending their money or reading the very clear instructions that went with the whole thing. However at the end of the day, it's the first time I've seen video games actually raise thousands of dollars for a good cause as a way to raise an issue.

So basically, I don't think there's anything wrong in asking, as long as it's done in a polite and mature fashion. And I think the ME3 fans have (for the most part) done that, unlike the type of behavior you'd often see from gamers when they decide to lash out.

Personally I'm not sure what I think BW should do. I thought the ending was a mess and not up to BioWares standards (not even the Dragon Age 2 standard). On one hand I can understand the concern about asking authors to change their work to fit what fans want, on the other hand, games have a long history of changing games to fit demands and fix bad game play mechanics.

^^ Freaking hell, THAT BAD??? I'm gonna have to dedicate some time and finish this game to see for myself.FelipeInside

so you have been talking about what they should or not do with the ending without even seeing it? i think for one to give an opinion the least you can do is know about what you are talking about, just saying

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]^^ Freaking hell, THAT BAD??? I'm gonna have to dedicate some time and finish this game to see for myself.Krelian-co

so you have been talking about what they should or not do with the ending without even seeing it? i think for one to give an opinion the least you can do is know about what you are talking about, just saying

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]^^ Freaking hell, THAT BAD??? I'm gonna have to dedicate some time and finish this game to see for myself.FelipeInside

so you have been talking about what they should or not do with the ending without even seeing it? i think for one to give an opinion the least you can do is know about what you are talking about, just saying

Shame and rants aside, hows the mp?rzepak

I disagree with you when it comes to ME3 and the whole ending mess. While I think there's far too much entitlement and poor behavior among gamers nowadays, I actually think that the ME3 situation has (for the most part) been different.

While I'm 100% sure that there's been plenty of 'fans' that's been behaving poorly, the organized initiatives have (in my opinion) been completely different. I think it's completely fair for consumers to ask a company for something. Whether it's requesting improvements in services, asking for different products, reduced prices or a different ending to a computer game, I believe consumers should be able to request these things. I also believe that it's up to the company to decide how to address those requests.

The reason why I think this situation has been handled uncommonly well by a lot of the fans is because it haven't been primarily hostile or negative. I think the charity collection was a perfect example. Instead of simply making angry posts, they made a charity drive. Lately, instead of raging at BioWare, they've sent BioWare a bunch of cupcakes. Regarding the Kotaku article, if you read the statements made by the actual charity they didn't have a problem with the 'Retake Mass Effect fans starting the collection when it started, they even made public statements explaining that donations was given directly to the charity and that donations was not 'held hostage'. They didn't mind keeping the collection running for a week or two, knowing what the situation was. After a couple of weeks they simply decided that going forward they'd change the rules to make sure that there was no confusion. As for people asking for money back, they are obviously fools who didn't bother spending 2 minutes looking at where they were sending their money or reading the very clear instructions that went with the whole thing. However at the end of the day, it's the first time I've seen video games actually raise thousands of dollars for a good cause as a way to raise an issue.

So basically, I don't think there's anything wrong in asking, as long as it's done in a polite and mature fashion. And I think the ME3 fans have (for the most part) done that, unlike the type of behavior you'd often see from gamers when they decide to lash out.

Personally I'm not sure what I think BW should do. I thought the ending was a mess and not up to BioWares standards (not even the Dragon Age 2 standard). On one hand I can understand the concern about asking authors to change their work to fit what fans want, on the other hand, games have a long history of changing games to fit demands and fix bad game play mechanics.

Mazoch

Thank you for the response. What I disagree with is that it hasn't been a request.

Its been a demand of ownership. Look at the title of the group "Retake Mass Effect" - sure they can ask but that alone shows that there is some belief that the IP belongs to them. It does not. It is Bioware's production, which people can pay to be a part of.

This is also to ignore the insurmountable number of rude and angry posts that are all over the Internet, demanding that the ending is changed. We never hear how good the rest of the game is.

I don't buy the charity drive for a number of reasons. The charity shut it down because there was a lot of confusion. Arguably, they also closed it down because they realised that people were latching onto an organisation to draw awareness for their own cause rather than caring about sick kiddies. Hence, the number of people asking for refunds. That had to be cleaned up and organised.

Just because they sent 400 cupcakes doesn't make them nice. It was a nuisance tactic to get attention. Unnecessary considering this was after Bioware said they would address the ending.

Lets be honest here, without disagreeing over wording: do you really think its mature to be so desperate to change a game ending that you start sending cakes and donations like this? Its just a video game..

Its been a demand of ownership. Look at the title of the group "Retake Mass Effect" - sure they can ask but that alone shows that there is some belief that the IP belongs to them. It does not. It is Bioware's production, which people can pay to be a part of.biggest_loser

Yes it is Bioware's product but at the end of the day it is the customer that is paying and if your customer is not happy then don't expect them to buy your products in the future. That is the essence of what a lot of people are saying "give us a decent, proper ending or you don't see our cash for anything in the future". There is nothing wrong with that

This is also to ignore the insurmountable number of rude and angry posts that are all over the Internet, demanding that the ending is changed. We never hear how good the rest of the game is.biggest_loser

It is also hard to ignore that the other camp that wants Bioware to stay true to their "artistic integrity" :roll: have been equally rude and produced an unprecedented amount of vitriol towards the take back movement. What makes it even worse is that a lot of the hate against the change ending campaign has been from so called "professional game journalists".

I don't buy the charity drive for a number of reasons. The charity shut it down because there was a lot of confusion. Arguably, they also closed it down because they realised that people were latching onto an organisation to draw awareness for their own cause rather than caring about sick kiddies. Hence, the number of people asking for refunds. That had to be cleaned up and organised.biggest_loser

I should point out that the owners of the Childsplay charity are Penny Arcade a website that has been quite scathing of the retake ME movement (before the whole charity fiasco). Again it depends on how you see things, you see it as them "latching on" now that is your view. Personally whilst I had no interest in this tactic I did follow the whole thing and it was done with the best of intentions. It was done because Mass Effect fans wanted to turn a negative into a positive and demonstrate to Bioware that there is a huge demand for a reworked ending and at the same time raise some cash for kids. It has been spoilt by a number of people now which is a shame and with hindsight it probably shouldn't have been done.

Just because they sent 400 cupcakes doesn't make them nice. It was a nuisance tactic to get attention. Unnecessary considering this was after Bioware said they would address the ending.

Lets be honest here, without disagreeing over wording: do you really think its mature to be so desperate to change a game ending that you start sending cakes and donations like this? Its just a video game..biggest_loser

It isn't a "nuisance" tactic it is a bit of fun and several Bioware people have even commented on the tactic and are actually finding it a very polite and nice way of ME fans getting their point across and they are looking foward to getting the cupcakes. But no lets ignore the fact that Bioware are appreciative of this form of feedback and totally rag on the "we want a changed ending brigade" shall we.

I personally think it is very mature that customers are telling a developer that they are not happy with the product they paid for and they want it fixed and they are doing it in interesting and novel ways. Yes it is just a video game but you find humans tend to care about the most frivolous of things and become passionate about them. You obviously don't give a toss about Mass Effect and there is nothing wrong with that but don't belittle and criticise those that do care about the franchise and want to see a PROPER DECENT ending to the series.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This new generation wants everything YESTERDAY and all packaged up in a nice ribbon exactly the way they want it. /end of rantcharmingcharlie

What's next? Demanding refunds after a movie because you didn't liek the ending? Returning a book because you didn't like the ending? The guy you are replying to is right, it is mostly the younger geneartion who feel this entitled. It's an ending of a vdeo game for gods sake....

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Falconoffury"]

Why do people care so much that Mass Effect 3 has a bad ending? So many other games have bad endings, and they don't get much attention. There are so many bad games in general, but I don't see public outcries for them. Where is the money-making effort to turn Jagged Alliance: Back in Action into a good game? I could probably come up with dozens of examples if pressed. Mass Effect 3 disappointed, get over it, people. It wasn't the first game to do so, and it certainly won't be the last.

Bioware is fallible. No, the world is not ending.

wis3boi

That really makes no sense at all. People replay games all the time that have 1 ending, the same path, the same ending EVERY time. I guess Mass Effect is different though.....

This whole thing is sickening. This is BEFORE the cupcakes.

biggest_loser

Best part of the original post.

What's next? Demanding refunds after a movie because you didn't liek the ending? Returning a book because you didn't like the ending? The guy you are replying to is right, it is mostly the younger geneartion who feel this entitled. It's an ending of a vdeo game for gods sake.... Endgame_basic

Firstly a movie is quite different to a $60 - $70 game. If you watch a movie with a crap ending then all you have done is waste $5 - $10 bucks and lost a couple of hours. However you will make damn sure you are more careful in the future with any movie that is produced by that director. The vast majority of those that do not like the ending of Mass Effect 3 are NOT seeking refunds, but hey lets not bother with that lets just concentrate on a the very few that are seeking refunds shall we :roll: .

All that is happening is those that enjoyed the Mass Effect series are saying "hey your end is crap, fix it or do not expect my custom in the future". This naturally of course makes them "entitled" and "spoilt" erm NO it makes them UNHAPPY customers.

[QUOTE="charmingcharlie"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]This whole ME3 ending debacle (I haven't finished it yet myself) is an embarrassment. I feel ashamed as a PC gamer that some of us are like spoiled brats.FelipeInside

The ending is really, really bad.

The ending is really, really bad.

xLittlekillx

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

The ending is really, really bad.

FelipeInside

Bad endings can retroactively ruin the experience and they will also spoil any future experience of the same content.Baranga

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

The ending is really, really bad.

DanielDust