Would anyone play a 'hardcore' MMO again?

Ever since World of Warcraft hit the market things have change. SOE has even made Everquest and EQ2 easier and more like WoW. The ultimate thing about WoW is that everyone has a shot at everything. The game is easy to get into and easy to play and if you play well enough, you DO have a chance of getting the best gear one day. Old MMORPGs were set up to be painfully difficult, risk vs reward, and set up that not everyone could succeed. People competed with each other for the same bosses as there were no instanced dungeons. Rare items were RARE as the chance the item would drop would depend of how recently it had drop, how many times a day it was farmed, and how long you were farming that mob. And in PVP, even in duels, it was to the death. Some old MMOs you lost EVERYTHING to the other player.

Now, some people missed these games. But how many people here do? Would you play a MMO with open PVP were you would lose everything you carry to the other player? Would you play a MMO were you would have to camp a boss for days and even stay up all night to make sure you are the one who gets the drops? What about a MMO that was hard in a different way? Just like in WoW, everyone has a chance. Only the game play was more group based and it's own reward that made old MMOs so hard?

Bottom line: Would you play a MMO that had harsh penalties for failure but made you feel more proud of your achievements?

I played two MMOs before wow.

Everquest and Ultima Online.

Ultima Online (launch version, not the version thats around now) was the most fun i've ever had in an MMO. Easily. It was hardcoore in the was that you could lose everything you had if you weren't smart, or if you were just unlucky. When you died, you lost everything that was on you. That mixed with the general lawlessness due to lack of real guards, and an extremely buggy game that caused things like the halloween monster riots*** made the game exciting and unpredictable to me. There has been no equal to the PvP offered in UO, for me. WoW's pvp is fun and all, but it lacks the edge that made UO so excitin, but arenas are a decent replacement.

*** A halloween even were monsters like skeletons and zombies spawned near towns. A bug caused the spawns to occur much more frequently than was expected and they ended up taking over the continent.

Everquest was just addictign to me at the time. There was no real pvp to speak of, but questing and gaining levels was like crack. Note: It was rarely FUN, it was just addicting.

So would I play hardcore games like these again? Probably not. I'm getting up in age now and I don't have the time to invest in those sorts of games. I'd like to play a game like (early) UO again, but can I really invest hundreds of hours into something, only to have it all dissapear because I lost a fight? I just don't have that much expandable time anymore, even though that was some real fun. Everquest? Hell no, i'd never play a game that requires that much time to level and complete quests again. Hell levels, camping spawns for 10+ hours, fighting other guilds for boss kills... Screw that!

I play wow casualy now, and I liek that I can play for 30 mins a night and still accomplish something. I'd liek more high risk pvp, but the sad fact is that I can't risk my precious time anymore

No, because they would be overrun with bots and gold farmers.

Then again I wouldn't play WoW either.

I would definetly play it, but few few companies are trying to make these games as they don't want to take many risks.

SOE tried with Vanguard, it was supposed to bring back the roots of hardcore mmo's but it's launch wasnt great. I might pick it up again soon and try it out cause i heard it's much better, but more companies should really branch away from the market, take more risks, and bring back harder gameplay.

That would be a no.

That would be a no.

mfsa

Sweet! Being a non-MMORPG player makes you gel your hair and take pictures with your face REALLY close to the camera.

What have I been doing with my life?? ;)

Ofcourse NOT!!!!!

Thats Why I quit in all the MMORPG's that i have played

except for 1 I think GS "Granado Espada" is not that selfish on items money etc..

Just like what you said Everyone can catch up on everything that other have done on this game like WoW..

I Suggest that when you play an MMORPG and you think that its economically expensive stop playing! ^^

[QUOTE="mfsa"]

That would be a no.

TeamR

Sweet! Being a non-MMORPG player makes you gel your hair and take pictures with your face REALLY close to the camera.

What have I been doing with my life?? ;)

Precisely!

(It's actually water, I had just showered - being accused of using hair gel is seriously one of the most offensive things I can think of. MY STANDARD OF PERSONAL PRESENTATION AND HYGIENE IN GENERAL IS LOW TO MODERATE!!)

That would be a no.

mfsa

lol. most convincing argument ever. they should put you in the anti-mmo commercial.

Precisely!

(It's actually water, I had just showered - being accused of using hair gel is seriously one of the most offensive things I can think of. MY STANDARD OF PERSONAL PRESENTATION AND HYGIENE IN GENERAL IS LOW TO MODERATE!!)

mfsa

my mistake! But vast improvement! Congrats!

I can't say i've changed much since my hardcore time back in the day, but I did geta HUGE productivity boost. When you take those games too seriously there just aint much time for anything else. lol. Glad I got out before everquest did too much damage to my life

All mmo games that are now avilable are bad....

realy realy bad... they are on one hand trying to be realisctic on other hand they are not
i realy liked ragnarok... great game.. not trying to achive realistism, pure fiction game

bottom line: i wouldn't play any more MMO until someone will make better ones.. hopefully not when i'm 100YO

i would risk was fun

i still think (even though i have a 70 in wow) that wow has ruined MMOs i quit wow awhile ago cause it didnt really feel like a hardcore mmo which it wasnt

Depending on the MMO, possibly.

I wouldn't bear PvP in any form, nor raiding. Permanent Death is just a little too hardcore for me, but it is getting close to what I could bear, think of an amount of lives per month and I sign in. :)

See, penalties and harsh stuff CAN be part of a FUN equation. I wouldn't recommend doing 1 harsh setting for the whole game. Create various servers, with various rules, maybe players can switch or not among these.

I am craving for:

- Group focus (3-8 players).

- Solo options (always have something meaningfull to do solo, no matter how advance you are, even if it is only improve the % of loot drop for when you will group, it has to be something meaningfull to do).

- Lives per month + light debt system. You run out of lives, cya next month. A casual couldn't run out of lives (can't lose more than 1 life per 3 hours or something like that, debt penalty could be exponential if you died before you can lose a life).

- Unlimited levels in 1 last final zone.

- Level cap on each zone, you are abobe the level, you are brought back to the cap, there is no way you will just PWNS everything and ruins everyone else experience. You still earn XP for the unlimited level zone here, maybe not as fast, but still.

- Each zone has a focus on 1 item slot. Best helms are all in the level 5 zone, and if you are level 40, 55 or 9438, in this zone you are level 5. You earn it here if you want the best helm, as a level 5. New quests add later on would make you come back if you want the new best helms.

- Gear cap, each item which is earned in a higher level zone has a stat cap of a few points of AC exclusively, nothing else. So you can find all the same stats on local items. So if you are in the level 5 zone, only the helms are not greyed and capped.

- Each zone is flagged as solo, grouping or whatever else, you are always in that setting here. Impossible to group in a solo zone.

- Sidekick system as in CoX.

- Group items have stat/group member. For example, a solo helm has a 30 hps bonus, a group helm has 10 hps/group member. If you have raiding in the game, it would give 3 hps/raid member.

- The 5 best rooms of a dungeon are teleporting you on the Z axis to your version of the room (kinda as an instance without the zoning). You fight your boss mobs and gain the loot there, alone from the remaining of the peoples in the zone, and they would have their own variation of the room if they enter it. But you share the same dungeon for everything else, only the best loot/rooms are all "instanced" this way.

I play Eve online which is probably the most brutal MMO I've every played. I've been in PVP fights where my hands are actually shaking while trying to use the mouse. However it is also the most casual player friendly MMO as well. Their unique skill training system has given me my life back compared to the days of WoW.

You want real hardcore PvP and still have a personal life? Try Eve Online.

That would be a no.

mfsa

Great post :)

I can relate. I beta tested and played all MMos since EQ1 so was pretty heavy into it.

2-1/2 years ago I had 2 lvl50 toons in EQ2 and then my son was born. After that I lost interest in MMOs. Lost 50lbs (that would be the beer and soda I constantly drank online)

Don't get me wrong...I still love gaming, but I'm sticking to the ones that I can click SAVE and call it a day anytime I want.

SIDE NOTE: Out of all the MMOs...and I've done it all. EQ1 was still the best... The penalties were evil :) As long as I live I will never forgot some of the corpse recovery missions we had to deal with :) EQ1 really encouraged the imagination and sparked a sense of wonder. (cruising around with a DE Necro or Warrior was some serious abuse:)

There was nothing like everquest, and never will be again.How about the raiding challenge..Each guild getting enough people an healers into the frey...The nerves, calling your friends to come online..Hey raid time get up get over here.We need ya..Never again will i feel the way i did in everyquest.It brought selling toons for cash out on ebay..Well that might been a bad thing..Think it kind of started ,the stupid gold farming ah well..No one has time, for a hardcore game any more.They dumb these games down for kids..Sorry to say its true...Soe an wow is in a way a sad thing for mmorpgs..You say how is wow a sad thing..Well cause they dumb down, the game its not a challenge..Games are meant to be a challenge..

There was nothing like everquest, and never will be again.How about the raiding challenge..Each guild getting enough people an healers into the frey...The nerves, calling your friends to come online..Hey raid time get up get over here.We need ya..Never again will i feel the way i did in everyquest.It brought selling toons for cash out on ebay..Well that might been a bad thing..Think it kind of started ,the stupid gold farming ah well..No one has time, for a hardcore game any more.They dumb these games down for kids..Sorry to say its true...Soe an wow is in a way a sad thing for mmorpgs..You say how is wow a sad thing..Well cause they dumb down, the game its not a challenge..Games are meant to be a challenge..

Gladestone1

I completely agree.

For example... I of course began playing Wow like everyone else. Lost interest very quickly. The combonation of pvp, no dying penaly, and cartoon graphics was really annoying.

About a month later there was a RL client of mine that had a paladin with unlimited funds. He talked me into trying Wow again and gave me more cash that was possible to spend. I played for about a week and got annoyed, bored, and quit.

I play Eve online which is probably the most brutal MMO I've every played. I've been in PVP fights where my hands are actually shaking while trying to use the mouse. However it is also the most casual player friendly MMO as well. Their unique skill training system has given me my life back compared to the days of WoW.

You want real hardcore PvP and still have a personal life? Try Eve Online.

unst4blec0d3r

What he said

No other game gets your adrenaline pumping like pvp in a hardcore mmo... atleast IMHO, just because the outcome of a fight will mean so much, win or lose.

btw, cheers mfsa! great improvement!

I think Vanguard: Saga of Heroes would be the game for you.Blaze787

Not any more. SOE have killed their fanbase again by giving it the "WoW" treatment and now it's like WoW too. It was also going be different, it was going be based on small groups through out the entire game. In the end game, instead of going into a dungeon of 40 people you were going go to a group of 8 or smaller raids instead. They change that too, and many cool features such as flying mounts have been finally been added but only as raiding rewards. The 'hardcore' are mad as hell.

EDIT: This is all from stuff I heard. Vanguard was going to have 3 ultimate ways to process other then progressing your class. You could be successful in the game by not killing ANYTHING! The game was going allow you to get to high places by leveling a crafting profession instead. You could of also become a politician and run a fraction of your own. And if you really wanted to, you could do all 3. A mighty warrior or rules over a small clan of mercenaries that does his own blacksmith for a hobby. It's still there... but it's all about option one now. :( I wanted to be a commander of my own army on a PVP server

[QUOTE="unst4blec0d3r"]

I play Eve online which is probably the most brutal MMO I've every played. I've been in PVP fights where my hands are actually shaking while trying to use the mouse. However it is also the most casual player friendly MMO as well. Their unique skill training system has given me my life back compared to the days of WoW.

You want real hardcore PvP and still have a personal life? Try Eve Online.

dazedfinch

What he said

No other game gets your adrenaline pumping like pvp in a hardcore mmo... atleast IMHO, just because the outcome of a fight will mean so much, win or lose.

btw, cheers mfsa! great improvement!

ayep, EVE is the anti-WoW. real meaningful PvP. good PvE environment. a real player controlled political system and economy. and a universe that actually changes according tot he player base (0.0 at least)

Never again! I played FFXI until I had to do the retardedly hard level cap quests, making gil was extremely time consuming and everything you do required a full party.

I played WoW also for about 2 years, the expansion changed everyone into greedy selfish *******, and I never want to put myself through that again.

Right now, I just play Guild Wars and Cabal Online, which in my opinion as just as good as WoW (if not better). You keep your life as well. Only thing I don't like about Cabal is the requirements for smooth gameplay, which is high for a free MMO.

Ya isn't Vanguard supposed to be a modern day throwback to the MMO's of old? ... Harsher style death penalty, no instanced content, mainly a group focus. plus you need a super computer to run it, or you did when it launched.

I think their sub base is around 40k so i would say not many are that interested anymore.