WoW Cataclysm... Have a chance to match Vanilla WoW?

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

Although, Cataclysm looks like it might actually be pretty good. TBC was decent, WOTLK was just meh overall.

But I think Cataclysm might make a comeback... MAYBE.

I think it might be the best expansion yet, maybe it will stand a challenger compared to vanilla?

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

Wakanoid

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

[QUOTE="Wakanoid"]

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

-Unreal-

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

I liked TBC the most, it hit the sweet spot of not being too casual or inaccessible.

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

[QUOTE="Wakanoid"]

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

Roland123_basic

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

I don't see how Vanilla was harder. If you mean raiding, TBC was just as difficult. Your character doesn't have achievements for anything from TBC so I don't know how you can form that opinion.

Dungeons weren't more interesting either. The dungeons in TBC were better looking, had better logical progression and more interesting and involving boss fights.

I don't know what you mean by a better sense of community. 40 man raids being lowered to 25 man raids took away the need to form large guilds, or waiting for enough people to come online and be able to stay online for long enough.

Just because an item's name is in purple doesn't mean it's good in relation to the current best gear. ilvl is what matters more, and even moreso (as anyone with decent experience in the game will tell you) working as part of a team to overcome goals. Gear is only a tool and people who list welfare epics as a downside to the game are proving that they never were part of a decent guild that works as a team and as a result progressed well in the game. An example is a casual player coming to PvP and grinding honor for a S1 set when everyone else who is good at the game and does arena will have an S3 set. Or people who grind for months for a set of T9 and when they finally get it, the people in good raiding guilds have T10 and when the casual grinds even more for T10 everyone else has the heroic version. Then at the end of the expansion, the good players have achievements like "Light of Dawn" to show off and don't really care that Mr. casual has some T10.5

Gear actually means something. Gear still means something. It helps your character as a tool (as I've mentioned already). I don't see how gear in Vanilla is any different to that in TBC, Wrath or even the Cata patch. Gear still matters. I would have asked you to try going into PvP with no resillience but you clearly don't play the game. What about doing DPS on a boss or even a target dummy? Trying to say gear doesn't help there?

If the list goes on, feel free. I enjoy discussing WoW.

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

[QUOTE="Wakanoid"]

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

Roland123_basic

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

Thread

[QUOTE="Roland123_basic"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

knight0151

Thread

I don't see how Vanilla was harder. If you mean raiding, TBC was just as difficult. Your character doesn't have achievements for anything from TBC so I don't know how you can form that opinion.

Dungeons weren't more interesting either. The dungeons in TBC were better looking, had better logical progression and more interesting and involving boss fights.

I don't know what you mean by a better sense of community. 40 man raids being lowered to 25 man raids took away the need to form large guilds, or waiting for enough people to come online and be able to stay online for long enough.

Just because an item's name is in purple doesn't mean it's good in relation to the current best gear. ilvl is what matters more, and even moreso (as anyone with decent experience in the game will tell you) working as part of a team to overcome goals. Gear is only a tool and people who list welfare epics as a downside to the game are proving that they never were part of a decent guild that works as a team and as a result progressed well in the game. An example is a casual player coming to PvP and grinding honor for a S1 set when everyone else who is good at the game and does arena will have an S3 set. Or people who grind for months for a set of T9 and when they finally get it, the people in good raiding guilds have T10 and when the casual grinds even more for T10 everyone else has the heroic version. Then at the end of the expansion, the good players have achievements like "Light of Dawn" to show off and don't really care that Mr. casual has some T10.5

Gear actually means something. Gear still means something. It helps your character as a tool (as I've mentioned already). I don't see how gear in Vanilla is any different to that in TBC, Wrath or even the Cata patch. Gear still matters. I would have asked you to try going into PvP with no resillience but you clearly don't play the game. What about doing DPS on a boss or even a target dummy? Trying to say gear doesn't help there?

If the list goes on, feel free. I enjoy discussing WoW.

-Unreal-

I agree with you for the most part as I've state dbefore in multiple posts, but I have a problem with the above. The arena vs BG/World is not as cut and dried as you make it seem. I'm not saying a large portion of the time it doesn't break down to good vs bad players, but it can just as easily be a matter of preference.

I HATE arenas, they are what ruined PvP through much of TBC and Wrath in my eyes. The game was nerver meant to be balanced around small group PvP, which makes only certain classes useful, and when Blizz started balancing around arenas it broke a lot of mechanics that worked perfectly fine in BGs and PVE. I don't enjoying playing the classes/specs that are superior in arenas, but I excel in BGs and World PvP. A lot of people are in the same boat as I am, they hate arenas and really enjoy world PvP and BGs, but were getting screwed by gear progression (it's better now, but not much). The one thing I was liking most about Cataclysm what a refocussing on World PvP and BGs and less so on arenas. Blizz seems to finally be waking up to the fact that the majority of players don't like or don't participate in arena PvP.

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

[QUOTE="Wakanoid"]

As we know, vanilla WoW is the best that has been around. (At least in most peoples opinions including mine.)

Roland123_basic

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

[QUOTE="Roland123_basic"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

How do you know most people think Vanilla was the best? Most people are just nostalgic about it.

What made the original game better in comparison with how the game changed in TBC/Wrath/Cata?

shakmaster13

oh ok.... so guilds cleared ragnoros the first day he launched like they did with ICC right? right? oh wait.... they didnt.

no instance in TBC or beyond was anywhere near the complexity/interest of BWL....sorry, they just arent.

community was WAY more tight nit pre TBC thanks to larger guilds needing to be more organized in order to accomplish harder instances.

TBC and WotLK never even came close to what it was like to be in a highly coordinated, successful, top tier guild. until ICC, there was NO difference between vendored epics and instance epics. you could get 3 of the 5 top tier pieces from tokens ffs....

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="Roland123_basic"] harder, more interesting/complex dungeons and encounters, better sense of community thanks to 40 man raids, no wellfare epics, gear actually meant something... the list goes on...Roland123_basic

oh ok.... so guilds cleared ragnoros the first day he launched like they did with ICC right? right? oh wait.... they didnt.

no instance in TBC or beyond was anywhere near the complexity/interest of BWL....sorry, they just arent.

community was WAY more tight nit pre TBC thanks to larger guilds needing to be more organized in order to accomplish harder instances.

TBC and WotLK never even came close to what it was like to be in a highly coordinated, successful, top tier guild. until ICC, there was NO difference between vendored epics and instance epics. you could get 3 of the 5 top tier pieces from tokens ffs....

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="Roland123_basic"] harder, more interesting/complex dungeons and encounters, better sense of community thanks to 40 man raids, no wellfare epics, gear actually meant something... the list goes on...Roland123_basic

oh ok.... so guilds cleared ragnoros the first day he launched like they did with ICC right? right? oh wait.... they didnt.

no instance in TBC or beyond was anywhere near the complexity/interest of BWL....sorry, they just arent.

community was WAY more tight nit pre TBC thanks to larger guilds needing to be more organized in order to accomplish harder instances.

TBC and WotLK never even came close to what it was like to be in a highly coordinated, successful, top tier guild. until ICC, there was NO difference between vendored epics and instance epics. you could get 3 of the 5 top tier pieces from tokens ffs....

ICC hard modes were not cleared the first day. Also, the Ragnaros fight was a huge gearcheck in a time in WoW where getting D1 and D2 required hundreds, if not thousands of hours of grinding. The Ragnaros fight was very very simple, with an occasional AoE. It had easier mechanics than any raid boss in TBC or WOTLK. It was just whether or not people had raid experience(it was very hard to organize 40 people) and the correct gear. Larger raid sizes also meant that it took that much longer to gear a whole raiding guild for the next raid. The only thing 40-man raids did was cause pointless logistical issues.

The community WAS more tight knit, but that was only due to the lower in game population and Blizzards strict policy when it came to character naming, which kept any name that had a real life meaning out of the game. Try going on lower population servers or even RP servers, you'll find a much more tight knit community.

Also, until TotC, there was no easy way to get good epics. When the dungeon finder made getting emblems easier, you could only get lower ilvl gear than the current gear granted in raids. Not to mention, not all epics are necessarily powerful. As one progresses through raids, their older, weaker epics become meaningless.

Also, the only people I ever hear complaining about the game getting too easy are the ones who do normal 10 or 25 mans and think they're uber. I have yet to come across anyone with the Light of Dawn title, or anyone in raiding guilds that regularly do hard modes or try ICC without the buff(which hasn't been completed to the best of my knowledge, if it has maybe 2 guilds worldwide have done it) complain about the game getting easier. Quit playing the easy content, man up, and earn the right to call the game easy. Until you link your character and prove that you have completed the actual hard content in the game, I can't take any of your propositions regarding WoW seriously.

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="Roland123_basic"] harder, more interesting/complex dungeons and encounters, better sense of community thanks to 40 man raids, no wellfare epics, gear actually meant something... the list goes on...Roland123_basic

oh ok.... so guilds cleared ragnoros the first day he launched like they did with ICC right? right? oh wait.... they didnt.

no instance in TBC or beyond was anywhere near the complexity/interest of BWL....sorry, they just arent.

community was WAY more tight nit pre TBC thanks to larger guilds needing to be more organized in order to accomplish harder instances.

TBC and WotLK never even came close to what it was like to be in a highly coordinated, successful, top tier guild. until ICC, there was NO difference between vendored epics and instance epics. you could get 3 of the 5 top tier pieces from tokens ffs....

WoW Vanilla wasnt hard. It was just time consuming. Theres a difference.

WoW Vanilla wasnt hard. It was just time consuming. Theres a difference.

XaosII

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

WoW Vanilla wasnt hard. It was just time consuming. Theres a difference.

AutoPilotOn

I didnt. I hated every damn minute of 40 man raids. That might've been because i was a Priest and it really felt like just playing whack-a-mole with 40 bars. It took me 6 almost full clears before i actually learned all the bosses names - its not like the actual boss mattered nor was the experience really any different as a healer from boss to boss.

I haven't played in Vanilla WoW, WotLK was already announced when I started playing. I can only hope though that Cataclysm is a lot better than WotLK was. WotLK had a great launch and then really went down the **** when the Argent Tournament patch came out. I just hope Blizzard makes less stupid decisions to appeal to the casual audience this time around. Games shouldn't have to rely on gimmicks to be good, such as new features that nobody likes. WotLK did way too much of that, with the whole badge system especially, not to mention the needless nerfing. The levels for mounts did not need to be dropped down to 20.