Blu-ray drive is the reason we need to install

...(knows probably some of that is true cus i thought that myself) but then why does oblivion require an install? it doesnt bring you to an INSTALL page, but it installs around 5 gigs of data while you are playing...CosmoKing7717

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

I download everything, install all games, have tons of MP3 and videos on my PS3 and I DON"T CARE ABOUT INSTALLS the only thing installs bother me, is that when I get a new game and I'm anxious to play it, it takes 10 minutes to start. After that I'm good to go.

Note: Regarding the Bluray not being fast enough, I don't know if you ever bought a CD-ROM for your computer, they started at 1x-2x and the last one I saw was 64x that means it reads disks at 64 times faster than the first CDROMs (1x), I think BLuray is too new and its technology did not reach this maturity yet, I don't know if a firmware update will do it, (not in the case of the CDROM), the hardware was different and faster, maybe Bluray will get a 2x version and it will start reading faster.

I find it very sad that in this day and age of super consoles that we have to resort to installing games or atleast parts of games just to avoid headaches when it comes to loading them.

All of this because of sony forcing bluray down the consumers throats whether they like or want it or not.

[QUOTE="CosmoKing7717"] ...(knows probably some of that is true cus i thought that myself) but then why does oblivion require an install? it doesnt bring you to an INSTALL page, but it installs around 5 gigs of data while you are playing...x-2tha-z

I found this after a quick google......

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/oblivions-double-data-blu+ray-kludge-229496.php

It quickly mentions why the data multiplication was needed.

I think the BD drive was included because of the massive success DVD received partly due to the PS2. Sony want that success again with a format it owns. Problem is, DVD didn't require you to buy a brand new TV to get the most from it like Blu-ray does. Would Sony care about movies this much if it didn't run a movie studio? Sony owns a movie studio called Sony Pictures. They tried it already with UMD and failed. Blu-ray is round 2.

...(knows probably some of that is true cus i thought that myself) but then why does oblivion require an install? it doesnt bring you to an INSTALL page, but it installs around 5 gigs of data while you are playing...CosmoKing7717

Yeah thats right, oblivion caches data without you knowing, also it did that on 360(thats where some of that missing 5gb goes too) most if not all 360 games cache data.

The reason ps3 games need an install is because of the blu-ray drive, because the blu-ray drive inside ps3 can only read at a speed of 2x where as dvd can read at speeds of 48x(im not sure on what the highest speeds are its somewhere around 48x i think) i think the 360 drive only reads at around 16x but thats just a guess based on specs i read 2-3 years ago before release i cannot remeber the excat speed.

PS3 will always have this problem as far as i know there's no way for sony to increase its read speeds through firmware, were starting to see it know with MGS4, that game plays completly off the hdd, it installs every level(act) before you start it, im assuming it deletes the old install(act 1) and installs act 2 so when we play it again we will have to install again, im just assuming here as i have not finished it once yet.

A couple of years from now this could be a real problem, i play several games at a time during one week, i never play one game till completion then start another i play 2-3 games at a time, for instance on mon-tues i will play mgs4 and wed-thur i will play RFOM and so on, so once my 60gb is full im going to have to go back and delete data from certain games then have to install it again when i want to play that game again.

Its the only real annoyance i have with ps3, for instance yesterday i wanted to play an hour of MGO with my friend before going out so i turn on my ps3 and i have to install an update so theres 20-30 mins of that hour gone, by the time i got the game started we had to go, it seems like everytime i want to use my ps3 i have to do something before hand.

I found this after a quick google......

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/oblivions-double-data-blu+ray-kludge-229496.php

It quickly mentions why the data multiplication was needed.

I think the BD drive was included because of the massive success DVD received partly due to the PS2. Sony want that success again with a format it owns. Problem is, DVD didn't require you to buy a brand new TV to get the most from it like Blu-ray does. Would Sony care about movies this much if it didn't run a movie studio? Sony owns a movie studio called Sony Pictures. They tried it already with UMD and failed. Blu-ray is round 2.

x-2tha-z

Blu-ray is like round 4 or something, sony have been trying for decades to get some of the format/medium storage pie, with betamax,mini-disc,umd and now blu-ray. there may be others im forgetting.

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

I download everything, install all games, have tons of MP3 and videos on my PS3 and I DON"T CARE ABOUT INSTALLS the only thing installs bother me, is that when I get a new game and I'm anxious to play it, it takes 10 minutes to start. After that I'm good to go.

Note: Regarding the Bluray not being fast enough, I don't know if you ever bought a CD-ROM for your computer, they started at 1x-2x and the last one I saw was 64x that means it reads disks at 64 times faster than the first CDROMs (1x), I think BLuray is too new and its technology did not reach this maturity yet, I don't know if a firmware update will do it, (not in the case of the CDROM), the hardware was different and faster, maybe Bluray will get a 2x version and it will start reading faster.

alexbhp

I think blu-ray already have a bd player that can read at faster speeds than 2x but ps3 will never read faster than 2x(2x is the speed the ps3 reads at) because its hardware related, the laser is on capable of reading at speeds of 2x.

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

I download everything, install all games, have tons of MP3 and videos on my PS3 and I DON"T CARE ABOUT INSTALLS the only thing installs bother me, is that when I get a new game and I'm anxious to play it, it takes 10 minutes to start. After that I'm good to go.

Note: Regarding the Bluray not being fast enough, I don't know if you ever bought a CD-ROM for your computer, they started at 1x-2x and the last one I saw was 64x that means it reads disks at 64 times faster than the first CDROMs (1x), I think BLuray is too new and its technology did not reach this maturity yet, I don't know if a firmware update will do it, (not in the case of the CDROM), the hardware was different and faster, maybe Bluray will get a 2x version and it will start reading faster.

alexbhp

I remember the days of slower CD drive speeds and when they got faster it seemed to take longer for the drive to spin-up to speed. I really didn't see the faster drive being that much better. Besides CD and DVD drives are rated at the highest speed but reads slower on most of the disc than Blu-Ray does which is a constant speed all the way accross the disc.

The read speed of a Blu-Ray drive is lower than that of a DVD drive, however harddrives are faster than both. So your assumption that 360 games wouldn't profit from HDD installations is wrong seeing as Oblivion suffered from longer and more frequent load times without the optional installation.

Secondly, the PS3 version of Oblivion does install 4.4 GB of cached data, although the data is streamed while you play instead of demanding an installation process up front.

The installs are annoying, but they give us much faster loading times in the end. Like DMC 4 install reportedly gave us "Super Nintendo" Like load times, and I can attest to that having played both versions of the game, that the ps3 version was much faster. If you have a 20 gig, then of course these will annoy you, but even with only 40 gigs, you can manage well and even avid gamers won't play all of their games forever, so if you're done playing it, especially games like dmc which dont have online or anything, than just delte the data and move on. I did the same thing with my ps2 memory card, why buy a new one when i'm done with several games on it? Of course if you want to have a lot of media along with your installs, it's very easy and fairly cheap to upgrade your hdd and sony encourages it.

The read speed of a Blu-Ray drive is lower than that of a DVD drive, however harddrives are faster than both. So your assumption that 360 games wouldn't profit from HDD installations is wrong seeing as Oblivion suffered from longer and more frequent load times without the optional installation.

Secondly, the PS3 version of Oblivion does install 4.4 GB of cached data, although the data is streamed while you play instead of demanding an installation process up front.

BenderUnit22

Everything you said has already been said in other posts. I mentioned Oblivion's loading issues on 360 in my first post. Oblivion's better performance on PS3 is due to installation and data duplication.

360 does kind of require an installation. It's hard drive is used to cache data. This is mostly done on the fly. Sometimes there will be a short loading screen. Nothing like the wait involved with PS3 installation. This could simply be put down to the slower read speed of the BD drive. Let's not forget that all 360 games work without the hard drive so cache data isn't as important to 360 as installed is to PS3.

Why wasn't a similar system used for PS3? Why does all your installed data stay on the hard drive so, like the previous poster with 9 games, you end up with 30GB of installed game data? On 360 your cache is overwritten each time you load a new game. If you remove the hard drive the game works without caching.

Knowing what we know now would you rather PS3 used DVD over Blu-ray? I'm not sure. I love being able to watch Blu-ray movies but I hate the slow load speeds and installation of data for games.The BD drive also made the PS3 a lot more expensive than it would've been if DVD was used.

may be im alone on this one but, am i the only one who doesnt care about installs? :Spsyum

The only thing that bothers me about them is how long they take. When I got my new copy of MGS4 I didn't want to wait 8 minutes for data to be installed before I could play. I didn't want to wait another 3 minutes for act 2 to be installed after I finished act 1. This is like going back to the days of the Commodore 64 when load times were epic.

Sometimes it's hard to see any benefit of installation. Games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma take a long time to install yet the game still suffers from long load times. Sometimes after you open a chest the screen that shows you what was in the chest takes far too long to load and at totally random times you'll be running along then the game will suddenly pause and start loading, for apparently no reason.

Blu-ray was the reason the PS3 was delayed, it's the reason PS3 is so expensive, it's the reason installation is needed and loading takes so long, but I do like Blu-ray movies.

complaining about blu-ray is like complaining about your new mansion cause its too big. Yeah right now we just moved in so it looks wierd with not enough stuff in it but after some home decorating it will look sick ;)

I guess what I'm saying is devs need to get comfortable with the format, personally I don't care about installs and believe a great solution would be for the game to install whatever it needs while being played, but admittedly I know nothing about these things so I'm talking out my ass.

Either way if installs are what it takes for games like mgs4 thats a sacrifice I'm willing to make

[QUOTE="psyum"]may be im alone on this one but, am i the only one who doesnt care about installs? :Sx-2tha-z

The only thing that bothers me about them is how long they take. When I got my new copy of MGS4 I didn't want to wait 8 minutes for data to be installed before I could play. I didn't want to wait another 3 minutes for act 2 to be installed after I finished act 1. This is like going back to the days of the Commodore 64 when load times were epic.

Sometimes it's hard to see any benefit of installation. Games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma take a long time to install yet the game still suffers from long load times. Sometimes after you open a chest the screen that shows you what was in the chest takes far too long to load and at totally random times you'll be running along then the game will suddenly pause and start loading, for apparently no reason.

Blu-ray was the reason the PS3 was delayed, it's the reason PS3 is so expensive, it's the reason installation is needed and loading takes so long, but I do like Blu-ray movies.

yeah i know what u mean, but cmon, separate instal times are good,in 8 min u can go make yourself some quesadilla :D or a cereal or something to eat while u play, in 8 min u can change the video input to your satellite and watch some soccer, basketball, some pron :P, or whatever, the next 5 minutes you can go to the bathroom or something besides in mgs4 u can surely see the instal was a benefit, and im sure more games are gonna folllow :D

boo-hoo, "I can't wait THREE minutes for an install" after maybe half an hour of gameplay.

Don't be ridiculous, you could use a break anyway. They do expect 15 minutes of breaktime in between every hour of play, but I guess some people just think they're just too good for that.

For those playing the number game, 1x DVD-read (10.5 Mbit/s) speed is significantly different from 1x Blu-ray-read (32 Mbit/s) speed. The Blu-ray drive might still be slower at 2x but at the very least, the difference in read-speeds is NOT 8-fold in comparison to the X360's 16x drive.

Unfortunately, because Sony decided to jump the gun, we're pretty much stuck with these slower drives. You can't change this with just a firmware update, a whole drive-replacement would be required... And I don't think Sony is quite ready to do that for their userbase.

[QUOTE="x-2tha-z"]

[QUOTE="psyum"]may be im alone on this one but, am i the only one who doesnt care about installs? :Spsyum

The only thing that bothers me about them is how long they take. When I got my new copy of MGS4 I didn't want to wait 8 minutes for data to be installed before I could play. I didn't want to wait another 3 minutes for act 2 to be installed after I finished act 1. This is like going back to the days of the Commodore 64 when load times were epic.

Sometimes it's hard to see any benefit of installation. Games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma take a long time to install yet the game still suffers from long load times. Sometimes after you open a chest the screen that shows you what was in the chest takes far too long to load and at totally random times you'll be running along then the game will suddenly pause and start loading, for apparently no reason.

Blu-ray was the reason the PS3 was delayed, it's the reason PS3 is so expensive, it's the reason installation is needed and loading takes so long, but I do like Blu-ray movies.

yeah i know what u mean, but cmon, separate instal times are good,in 8 min u can go make yourself some quesadilla :D or a cereal or something to eat while u play, in 8 min u can change the video input to your satellite and watch some soccer, basketball, some pron :P, or whatever, the next 5 minutes you can go to the bathroom or something besides in mgs4 u can surely see the instal was a benefit, and im sure more games are gonna folllow :D

I have to admit, I loved how when act 2 was installing a message popped on screen that told me I'd been playing for over 3 hours and maybe it was time to take a break or go "look far into the distance". I done it and it felt good. LOL. The beautifully rendered Snake smoking a cigarette softened the blow of the initial 8 minute install. I love MGS4.

Do people not know that? I just bought a PS3 magazine and one of the letters in the mail page was asking if the need to install games will disappear in the future. The mag answered that it thinks it will be used more as games become more graphically challenging. It then said they wondered why a game like Oblivion didn't have to be installed when it looked great and is huge while a game like DMC4 required a 4GB install. The reason games have to be installed is because the Blu-ray laser can't find the data fast enough on the disc. It's faster to load from the hard drive. DVD doesn't have that problem that's why 360 games don't need an install. To get round this problem, and the loading issues the 360 version suffered from, Oblivion's developers multiplied the data on the Blu-ray disc. They used the extra space of a Blu-ray disc to put the same game, on one disc, multiple times so the data was easier to find. That's why it runs better than the 360 version and doesn't require an install.x-2tha-z

TRUE

The blueray player in the PS3 sends data at 2x. In comparison to the 360 which is set at 12x. ;)

Blu ray drive ruined my life... :cry:

Blu ray has more pros than cons. Thats the bottom line and thats whats important.

Blu ray drive ruined my life... :cry:

Blu ray has more pros than cons. Thats the bottom line and thats whats important.

warbmxjohn

Would you care to enlighten us and list the pros and cons? I'll even have a go......

PROS= More space on the disc even though most games don't require it and being able to watch Blu-ray movies if you have an HDTV

CONS= Need to install game data on the hard drive that takes a long time and a lot of hard drive space, games take longer to load, BD drive makes the PS3 more expensive, the Blu-ray drive ruined warbmxjohn's life and made him cry, or is that a pro?

I just don't think Blu-ray should've been included in PS3. Maybe Sony should've waited until PS4. Did Blu-ray have a part to play in Sony going from first place to last in the console market? Who knows, maybe in the future PS3 will really benefit from Blu-ray and everyone will have hard drives bigger than 100GB so install data doesn't matter.

Blu ray drive ruined my life... :cry:

Blu ray has more pros than cons. Thats the bottom line and thats whats important.

warbmxjohn

Wow, welcome to the misinformation of a year ago :) while some of what you said is true about the data multiplication, which games like uncharted use to cut out load times completely and games like oblivion use it to make load times very short in comparison to it's counterparts. This is a feature devs WANT to be able to use on all consoles but really can't with the 360 versions of their games because not all 360's have hard drives. Rockstar even noted that as a limitation of programming a multiplat because they wanted to be able to cache more than they were able to with the 360. If you don't think that blu-ray drive has helped any game except for MGS I am going to assume you have not had your ps3 for very long and would suggest you look up what devs are starting to utilize it for, namely the Uncharted team.

[QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]

Blu ray drive ruined my life... :cry:

Blu ray has more pros than cons. Thats the bottom line and thats whats important.

x-2tha-z

Would you care to enlighten us and list the pros and cons? I'll even have a go......

PROS= More space on the disc even though most games don't require it and being able to watch Blu-ray movies if you have an HDTV

CONS= Need to install game data on the hard drive that takes a long time and a lot of hard drive space, games take longer to load, BD drive makes the PS3 more expensive, the Blu-ray drive ruined warbmxjohn's life and made him cry, or is that a pro?

I just don't think Blu-ray should've been included in PS3. Maybe Sony should've waited until PS4. Did Blu-ray have a part to play in Sony going from first place to last in the console market? Who knows, maybe in the future PS3 will really benefit from Blu-ray and everyone will have hard drives bigger than 100GB so install data doesn't matter.

The blu ray ruined my life satement was sarcasm and a representation of the gloomy/whiny mood in this post.

You don't think bluray should have been included, I guess that's why sony has sold millions of PS3's and your posting on gamespot forums.. I think for some reason they know a little more about running a successful business than you do.

Your install complaint is reasonable as a minor drawback, but its not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. The 1080p movies with uncompressed master audio help make the ps3 a solid start at a great home theater experience. Thats a huge pro. PS3 + HDTV + Surround sound = the best home theater experience.

Besides game installs are not soley there because blu ray isnt good enough, the game developers use the hard drive in every ps3 as an advantage when making games. Basically they use the cached data from the hard drive and the bluray disc to share the processing load to optimize performance. Its not an issue of overcoming blurays weakness, its using every tool available to make the best game they can as easy and fiscally responsible as possible.

Wow, welcome to the misinformation of a year ago :) while some of what you said is true about the data multiplication, which games like uncharted use to cut out load times completely and games like oblivion use it to make load times very short in comparison to it's counterparts. This is a feature devs WANT to be able to use on all consoles but really can't with the 360 versions of their games because not all 360's have hard drives. Rockstar even noted that as a limitation of programming a multiplat because they wanted to be able to cache more than they were able to with the 360. If you don't think that blu-ray drive has helped any game except for MGS I am going to assume you have not had your ps3 for very long and would suggest you look up what devs are starting to utilize it for, namely the Uncharted team.

longhorn7

It was misinformation yet you agree with me? Strange.

What I said wasn't misinformation. You're right about 360's without hard drives being a pain for developers. I think it was a mistake on Microsofts part to make the hard drive optional but developers seem to be finding a solution. IMO devs should make games with the hard drive in mind and put on the box 'hard drive required'. I think it's only a very small number of 360 owners without hard drives.

One thing I'd like to know is why does the PS3 use the install system rather than the cache system used in other consoles? Once you've got install data for over 6 games on your hard drive at over 4GB each that's a huge chunk of your HDD space used up. I feel bad for those with 20GB hard drives. Once playtv and the movie and music download service launches people who choose to use them will need that extra space, then of course there's the new games you'll buy in the future that will require their own huge installation.

About Uncharted, I don't know how it benefited from Blu-ray. I can't imagine it was anything other than graphics. Do you have a link so I can read up on it. I love Uncharted. It's my second favorite PS3 game.

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

alexbhp

installs are not fine the whole point of a console is to put the game in and play it straight away. not everyody wants to upgrade their HDD

[QUOTE="alexbhp"]

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

NSR34GTR

installs are not fine the whole point of a console is to put the game in and play it straight away. not everyody wants to upgrade their HDD

yeah every one wants 200+ hour games with real life graphics all for free, console and all. well unfortunatly in real life you have to pay to play.

[QUOTE="alexbhp"]

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

NSR34GTR

installs are not fine the whole point of a console is to put the game in and play it straight away. not everyody wants to upgrade their HDD

I agree with you. Consoles are supposed to be easy with no installs. By having installs a PS3 is looking more like a PC that only plays games and watch movies.

[QUOTE="x-2tha-z"][QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]

Blu ray drive ruined my life... :cry:

Blu ray has more pros than cons. Thats the bottom line and thats whats important.

warbmxjohn

Would you care to enlighten us and list the pros and cons? I'll even have a go......

PROS= More space on the disc even though most games don't require it and being able to watch Blu-ray movies if you have an HDTV

CONS= Need to install game data on the hard drive that takes a long time and a lot of hard drive space, games take longer to load, BD drive makes the PS3 more expensive, the Blu-ray drive ruined warbmxjohn's life and made him cry, or is that a pro?

I just don't think Blu-ray should've been included in PS3. Maybe Sony should've waited until PS4. Did Blu-ray have a part to play in Sony going from first place to last in the console market? Who knows, maybe in the future PS3 will really benefit from Blu-ray and everyone will have hard drives bigger than 100GB so install data doesn't matter.

The blu ray ruined my life satement was sarcasm and a representation of the gloomy/whiny mood in this post.

You don't think bluray should have been included, I guess that's why sony has sold millions of PS3's and your posting on gamespot forums.. I think for some reason they know a little more about running a successful business than you do.

Your install complaint is reasonable as a minor drawback, but its not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. The 1080p movies with uncompressed master audio help make the ps3 a solid start at a great home theater experience. Thats a huge pro. PS3 + HDTV + Surround sound = the best home theater experience.

Besides game installs are not soley there because blu ray isnt good enough, the game developers use the hard drive in every ps3 as an advantage when making games. Basically they use the cached data from the hard drive and the bluray disc to share the processing load to optimize performance. Its not an issue of overcoming blurays weakness, its using every tool available to make the best game they can as easy and fiscally responsible as possible.

The point of this topic was to point out the reason PS3 games have to be installed on the hard drive. There is other methods of storing data on the HDD than the system Sony uses. Other people are bothered about this install process, not just me. A larger debate has sprung up around it than I anticipated. My points are valid. I get the feeling you just don't like people pointing out a fault in the PS3. Trust me, I could point out others, as I could with other consoles.

Yes, Blu-ray is good for movies but that's just it. We're talking about the effect it has on games, not movies.

[QUOTE="longhorn7"]

Wow, welcome to the misinformation of a year ago :) while some of what you said is true about the data multiplication, which games like uncharted use to cut out load times completely and games like oblivion use it to make load times very short in comparison to it's counterparts. This is a feature devs WANT to be able to use on all consoles but really can't with the 360 versions of their games because not all 360's have hard drives. Rockstar even noted that as a limitation of programming a multiplat because they wanted to be able to cache more than they were able to with the 360. If you don't think that blu-ray drive has helped any game except for MGS I am going to assume you have not had your ps3 for very long and would suggest you look up what devs are starting to utilize it for, namely the Uncharted team.

x-2tha-z

It was misinformation yet you agree with me? Strange.

What I said wasn't misinformation. You're right about 360's without hard drives being a pain for developers. I think it was a mistake on Microsofts part to make the hard drive optional but developers seem to be finding a solution. IMO devs should make games with the hard drive in mind and put on the box 'hard drive required'. I think it's only a very small number of 360 owners without hard drives.

One thing I'd like to know is why does the PS3 use the install system rather than the cache system used in other consoles? Once you've got install data for over 6 games on your hard drive at over 4GB each that's a huge chunk of your HDD space used up. I feel bad for those with 20GB hard drives. Once playtv and the movie and music download service launches people who choose to use them will need that extra space, then of course there's the new games you'll buy in the future that will require their own huge installation.

About Uncharted, I don't know how it benefited from Blu-ray. I can't imagine it was anything other than graphics. Do you have a link so I can read up on it. I love Uncharted. It's my second favorite PS3 game.

As for the hard drive issue it does kinda bite that some people may to upgrade but the ease of upgrading your hd on the ps3 really makes that not much of an issue imo. It's not like you have to get a special overpriced HDD like with the 360, you can just throuw any 2.5" laptop hdd in there and youre good to go. cheap and efficient. Besides I think more games are going to do what MGS4 did with the installs after seeing how well that works. The installs for that game are really just erasing the cache from the previous chapter and replacing it with cache for the new chapter which saves us a lot of hard drive space and making the game run more efficiently.

Long story short IMO I would rather devs take advantage of being able to install caches on the HDD and maybe having to drop 50-100 bucks on a larger HDD some day in the future rather than not having them utilize something that works so well because it would make the console cheaper. The reason blu-ray was used is because the ps3 is supposed to last for a while without having to be replaced because it used outdated technology to make the console cheaper. I can't fault a company for including something that is a strong point for me in the long run.

So people have enough money for games to fill their hard drives up with all the install data, yet can't afford to upgrade their hdd? Instead of buying two of those games, upgrade your hdd. I mean if the memory capacity is such an issue for you, why not just upgrade? warbmxjohn

[QUOTE="NSR34GTR"][QUOTE="alexbhp"]

Stop complaining, installs are fine, people freakin' value their GBs like gold. for 109 you can have a 320GB PS3 like me and do not worry about installs or downloads.

chansaet

installs are not fine the whole point of a console is to put the game in and play it straight away. not everyody wants to upgrade their HDD

I agree with you. Consoles are supposed to be easy with no installs. By having installs a PS3 is looking more like a PC that only plays games and watch movies.

thank you

So people have enough money for games to fill their hard drives up with all the install data, yet can't afford to upgrade their hdd? Instead of buying two of those games, upgrade your hdd. I mean if the memory capacity is such an issue for you, why not just upgrade? warbmxjohn

Okay, why is everyone coming in with bitter posts aimed at me? All i'm doing is pointing out a design flaw in the PS3. That's right, it's a flaw weather you like it or not. Part of the reason people buy consoles is because they don't want to upgrade components. They shouldn't have to. My PS3 cost me £425 ($850) I shouldn't have to buy anything else for it. I'd rather spend my hard earned on those two games.

Look, this thread wasn't supposed to end up with me being flamed. If people here can't admit the PS3 has a few flaws that's their problem.

Why didn't Sony just set aside 5 or 6GB of HDD space as a cache that is overwritten each time you load a new game? No-one has answered that yet. Are you saying ending up with over 20GB of installed data is better than a single cache of 5GB? Do you have a reason why it's better?

[QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]So people have enough money for games to fill their hard drives up with all the install data, yet can't afford to upgrade their hdd? Instead of buying two of those games, upgrade your hdd. I mean if the memory capacity is such an issue for you, why not just upgrade? x-2tha-z

Okay, why is everyone coming in with bitter posts aimed at me? All i'm doing is pointing out a design flaw in the PS3. That's right, it's a flaw weather you like it or not. Part of the reason people buy consoles is because they don't want to upgrade components. They shouldn't have to. My PS3 cost me £425 ($850) I shouldn't have to buy anything else for it. I'd rather spend my hard earned on those two games.

Look, this thread wasn't supposed to end up with me being flamed. If people here can't admit the PS3 has a few flaws that's their problem.

Why didn't Sony just set aside 5 or 6GB of HDD space as a cache that is overwritten each time you load a new game? No-one has answered that yet. Are you saying ending up with over 20GB of installed data is better than a single cache of 5GB? Do you have a reason why it's better?

[QUOTE="x-2tha-z"]

[QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]So people have enough money for games to fill their hard drives up with all the install data, yet can't afford to upgrade their hdd? Instead of buying two of those games, upgrade your hdd. I mean if the memory capacity is such an issue for you, why not just upgrade? longhorn7

Okay, why is everyone coming in with bitter posts aimed at me? All i'm doing is pointing out a design flaw in the PS3. That's right, it's a flaw weather you like it or not. Part of the reason people buy consoles is because they don't want to upgrade components. They shouldn't have to. My PS3 cost me £425 ($850) I shouldn't have to buy anything else for it. I'd rather spend my hard earned on those two games.

Look, this thread wasn't supposed to end up with me being flamed. If people here can't admit the PS3 has a few flaws that's their problem.

Why didn't Sony just set aside 5 or 6GB of HDD space as a cache that is overwritten each time you load a new game? No-one has answered that yet. Are you saying ending up with over 20GB of installed data is better than a single cache of 5GB? Do you have a reason why it's better?

Yes but why would it be a pain to redo every time? Because it takes so long? The reason it takes so long is because of the slow Blu-ray drive. If there was a single cache you wouldn't need to delete anything. I think it's a flaw because a single 5GB cache would be better. Do you have a reason it wouldn't? Why don't Sony make devs use the Oblivion system of caching on the fly but have a single cache of 5GB? That would be better for everyone IMO.