Harmonix Dev trashes PS3

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=211558

First, lets debunk a few common misconceptions:

"The PS3 is more graphically advanced than the 360"

Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance. Additionally, the shader processing on the ps3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the ps3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power.

Ok, fine, but the cell is like, super powerful"

In theory, sure, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. Game code simply doesn't split well across multiple processors. You can probably find a way to split a few things off fairly easily - put the audio on one processor, animation on another; but generally the breakup is always going to leave several of the SPUs idle or underutilized. On top of that, it's usually not CPU speed that restricts the visuals in games - it's fill rate.

"Uh, Blue Ray!"

Great for watching movies, but not so great for games. Getting data off the blue ray drive takes about twice as long as it does to get the same data off the 360's DVD drive. That translates into longer load times, or god forbid if your streaming from disk, tighter constraints on the amount of data you can stream.

"But it's got a lot more space than DVD"

Ok, you got me there - it does have a lot more space, and there is the potential to use that to do something cool, but thats unlikely to be realized in any useful way. There are tons of compression techniques available for data and I'd personally rather be able to get my data faster than have more of it. Most developers who use the entire Blue Ray drive are doing it to work around other problems with the ps3 such as it's slow loading - for instance, in Resistance: Fall of Man, every art asset is stored on disk once for every level that uses it. So rather than storing one copy of a texture, you're storing it 12 times. If you took that entire game and removed all the duplicate data, it would likely fit on a DVD without any problem. They do this to speed up load times, which, as I pointed out before, are painfully slow on the ps3. So in this case, the extra space is completely wasted.

He must be right cuz he's works for Harmonix. They make the most graphicly profienct games around. Also the 360 version of Guitar Hero IIIwill have no load times while the PS3 version will take at leastfive minutes just to load up the main menu.

Cranky Devs are funny.

The title of the blog should be : " I don't understand how to work with PS3 , there fore I won't be able to make anything awesome on this console" long title :D hailltoyou

I'm sure he knows ALOT more than you do and most of us on the forums, everything he says seems like it makes sense aswel. While it may not all be true you have to respect everyones views on the subject. I'm not here to PS3 bash cause i loved the Playstation and i'm now a PC gamer but i think saying he's wrong is abit stupid.

[QUOTE="hailltoyou"]The title of the blog should be : " I don't understand how to work with PS3 , there fore I won't be able to make anything awesome on this console" long title :D Grantelicious

I'm sure he knows ALOT more than you do and most of us on the forums, everything he says seems like it makes sense aswel. While it may not all be true you have to respect everyones views on the subject. I'm not here to PS3 bash cause i loved the Playstation and i'm now a PC gamer but i think saying he's wrong is abit stupid.

We have to respect everyones views on the subject? Why is that? Why is he speaking in the first place? Why can't I just enjoy my system and my games

But if that is the truth about ps3 why is it the 360 port of oblivion looks better and has alot less load times on the ps3??

But if that is the truth about ps3 why is it the 360 port of oblivion looks better and has alot less load times on the ps3??

doherty883

dont forget about graw 2

[QUOTE="hailltoyou"]The title of the blog should be : " I don't understand how to work with PS3 , there fore I won't be able to make anything awesome on this console" long title :D Grantelicious

I'm sure he knows ALOT more than you do and most of us on the forums, everything he says seems like it makes sense aswel. While it may not all be true you have to respect everyones views on the subject. I'm not here to PS3 bash cause i loved the Playstation and i'm now a PC gamer but i think saying he's wrong is abit stupid.

You should edit topic name , he's former Harmonix developer. There are some logick / fanboy thinking :D. He got fired for not be able to work with PS3 version of the game , now he is angry :P

But in general thinking , only he spoke of these specifics, no one else sayd anything like that.

But if that is the truth about ps3 why is it the 360 port of oblivion looks better and has alot less load times on the ps3??

doherty883

I believe thats because the ps3 games can made around the harddrive where as the 360's can't and it had 1 year of development time extra.

[QUOTE="hailltoyou"]The title of the blog should be : " I don't understand how to work with PS3 , there fore I won't be able to make anything awesome on this console" long title :D Grantelicious

I'm sure he knows ALOT more than you do and most of us on the forums, everything he says seems like it makes sense aswel. While it may not all be true you have to respect everyones views on the subject. I'm not here to PS3 bash cause i loved the Playstation and i'm now a PC gamer but i think saying he's wrong is abit stupid.

You're right. He knows alot more about all of the technical mumbo jumbo then most of us do. I do somewhat agree that the PS3 isn't more pwerful but how would I really know?

As an owner of both the 360 and the PS3 I've played a ton of games and I haven't seen anything that makes one console stand out more than the other, as far as graphics/loadtimes go.

Not Gears, not Heavenly Sword, not Resistance, not Halo 3. Don't get me wrong these are all wonderful games and each has some things going for it but nothing that blows the other console out of the water and proves 360 is better or visa versa.

So yeah while he may be right, I'm not putting to much weight on what he said. The way I look at it he just posted a bunch of negative stuff about the PS3. An objective post would state some good stuff too. He comes off very one sided.

then how come games like like REsistance, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet and Clank, Warhawk, Oblivion, etc. alll look and play great? sounds like "im a developer who doesnt wanna have to develop for a console that isn't a PC clone" syndrome....

one more thing, if the PS3 is SO horrible why is Rockstar doing 2 exclusive games for the PS3 and none for the 360 after GTA 4 is out... developers are lazy and dont wanna have to learn anything new....

Harmonix isn't exactly the developer you want to be quoting on how well a system runs, nor how easy it is to program for. They aren't exactly at the top of the game developing industry. Yes, they have very popular games, but none of them are graphic intensive.

I absolutely love the Guitar Hero series, but that's pretty much the pinnacle of what they've done graphically. They're all rythmn games, and require very little programming knowledge (relative to other genres.)

Harmonix isn't exactly the developer you want to be quoting on how well a system runs, nor how easy it is to program for. They aren't exactly at the top of the game developing industry. Yes, they have very popular games, but none of them are graphic intensive.

I absolutely love the Guitar Hero series, but that's pretty much the pinnacle of what they've done graphically. They're all rythmn games, and require very little programming knowledge (relative to other genres.)

What's even funnier is that the fillrate on the Xbox 360 (What he specifically states as the downfall of the PS3) is 10% slower than the PS3 (4.0 Gigapixels to 4.4 Gigapixels).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Reality_Synthesizer%27

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos

The title of the blog should be : " I don't understand how to work with PS3 , there fore I won't be able to make anything awesome on this console" long title :D hailltoyou

exactly and just like the other guy said theyre making a music game why would they care about graphics especially since it looks cartoony. They don't know how to dev for the PS3 so why are they talking about. Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Lair, GT5, Killzone and UT3 look better than a lot of 360 games that are also exclusives.

they are just pissed because rock band is the first ps3 game they have made and they are making up stuff to justify the bad job they have done with rock band

how come devs like epic can make unreal tournament 3 for the ps3??? im no game pro but that has to be pushing some power of the ps3 the game looks amazing. no saying that gears of war doesnt but from the trailers i have seen the game looks as good if not better than gears. if all games end up looking like unreal turnament (which is possable because epic have done it) and all driving games look like gt5 (which has been done) then who the hell cares about fill rates and all that crap?

then who the hell cares about fill rates and all that crap?

d_ano

insecure fanboys, key word, insecure

He is wrong on the whole article. Infact I'm going to say he is either an idiot or a flat out liar.

Because Harmonix's games really push the hardware... of the DreamcastBenderUnit22

lol!

I don't own a 360 or a PS3... i'm a PC gamer but just thought you'd be interested to read...Grantelicious

This guy's either an idiot, or he was paid by M$.

the video card comparrison was pretty weak considering that both card's PC equivalents are about equal. and to top it off, the Cell can process graphics as well which more than makes up for any slight edge that the 360 GPU might have.

the read speed of the Cell is slightly slower BUT this idiot completely ignores the fact that with PS3 the hard drive comes standard. this allows tons of data to be cached to the hard drive which reads way faster than a dvd or bluray drive. the 360's lack of a standard hard drive is the reason why GTA4 will have load times during gameplay. thanks M$!

this guy FAILS in every sense of the word.

ot for anything, but with all the benefits BD offers to audio, wouldn't you think that he'd be happy considering the entire game is basically a glorified Simon Says with cool music?emitsu97

then how come games like like REsistance, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet and Clank, Warhawk, Oblivion, etc. alll look and play great? sounds like "im a developer who doesnt wanna have to develop for a console that isn't a PC clone" syndrome....

one more thing, if the PS3 is SO horrible why is Rockstar doing 2 exclusive games for the PS3 and none for the 360 after GTA 4 is out... developers are lazy and dont wanna have to learn anything new....

ajefferism

see Now this person makes sence!

I also think that the developers are being lazy!

oh and there is many facts to prove that PS3 is powerfull'er than 360. Everyone knows that PS3 is Powerful!

i say 360's now BUT PS3's the future:D

what does he know about ps3 if he only makes music games?i mean they really push the limits.

shouldant he be gratefull that ps3 is hdmi capatable?it allows beter sound

He can talk all the theoretical bull he wants but what counts are games. A month from now Uncharted will release which easily looks as good as any game on any console (in fact it gives most PC games a run for their money).

I find it ironic that people used to bash Sony supporters for using theoretical proof to show that PS3 is graphically superior to the other system and now that we have the games to proove it it's them using theory to proove that the other system is graphically superior. Why won't they just give up? What will they do when Killzone 2 comes out?

He can talk all the theoretical bull he wants but what counts are games. A month from now Uncharted will release which easily looks as good as any game on any console (in fact it gives most PC games a run for their money).

I find it ironic that people used to bash Sony supporters for using theoretical proof to show that PS3 is graphically superior to the other system and now that we have the games to proove it it's them using theory to proove that the other system is graphically superior. Why won't they just give up? What will they do when Killzone 2 comes out?

He is no longer a developer for Harmonix: "I left in September 2007 to join a new startup, Conduit labs." - His official site.

I can imagine the convo:

Harmonix dev: "We want you to help with the PS3 port of Rock Band"

Booth: "No way, the PS3 sucks and has no future, I quit."

That's assuming he wasn't fired, which is more likely, IMO

If something is hard to design for, it will take a while to get a good amount of top notch games. Thats not a good thing. Lets say that the PS3 puts out 12 amazing games next year. (just throwing that number out)That would mean that the 360 would have 4 to 6 times that amount. Why, because it's easier to design for.

This prob belongs in system wars. I refuse to sell my PS3, there will be some great games for it, but by the end of this console generation, the PS3 will have fewer top notch games than the 360. (sorry about all of the commas) Unless sony helps out developers. Thats if this trend of late games and framerate issues keep happening.

Maybe it's just me, but I miss the days where developers focused on making games, rather then advancing the whole notion of system wars. I don't mind some talk here and there, frankly it's always been present, but this generation more then any other has seen developers constantly talking, praising, bashing, flaming, arguing and I just wish they would all shut up and make games.

Whether it's pro or anti this or that, I don't really care. I'm not a big tech head and I don't care about this crap. I want to play games, not constantly hear whiny developers going on and on about stuff that isn't relevant to people who just want to play. Sure it's interesting to know a few things, but I'd rather developers shut up, focus, and start releasing good games that take advantage of the system they are working on, and releasing them in a timely manner.

Maybe it's just me, but I miss the days where developers focused on making games, rather then advancing the whole notion of system wars. I don't mind some talk here and there, frankly it's always been present, but this generation more then any other has seen developers constantly talking, praising, bashing, flaming, arguing and I just wish they would all shut up and make games.

Whether it's pro or anti this or that, I don't really care. I'm not a big tech head and I don't care about this crap. I want to play games, not constantly hear whiny developers going on and on about stuff that isn't relevant to people who just want to play. Sure it's interesting to know a few things, but I'd rather developers shut up, focus, and start releasing good games that take advantage of the system they are working on, and releasing them in a timely manner.

nyc05

THE XBOX 360 CANNOT WILLNOT PLAY IN HD! IT DOES NOT PLAY ON A HI DEFINITION DISC! WTH IS THAT BS!

sure you can get component cables and hook tehm up so that the xbox upscales to the proper screen length, but.... uhg nobody gets it. it plays regular dvd's, while ps3 plays a hi def dvd (blu ray).

and 30fps is more than enough for any game, 60 fps is jsut rediculous and people are stupid for expecting it.

halo runs in 30 fps im sure, so hows that for your framerate issue.

and lastly, you simply cannot say things like that without actually knowing what the cell processor does, and everyone knows you dont because nobody knows what it does.